From forens-owner Sun Oct 1 14:35:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06126 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r05.mail.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.5]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06121 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:35:32 -0400 (EDT) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id y.77.a3efd41 (9665) for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <77.a3efd41.2708ddc3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:34:43 EDT Subject: Fwd: Va Judge: Inmates Can Get DNA Test To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_77.a3efd41.2708ddc3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 66 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk --part1_77.a3efd41.2708ddc3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/1/00 12:06:30 PM, Martinyant writes: << ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) - Inmates who claim they were wrongfully convicted have a constitutional right to request DNA testing that might prove their innocence, a federal judge ruled. U.S. District Judge Albert V. Bryan Jr. issued the ruling Friday in the case of James Harvey, 59, who was convicted of rape in 1990. Bryan did not order DNA testing for Harvey but said the 14th Amendment allows state prisoners to file federal civil rights lawsuits seeking DNA testing. Although a district judge's decision is not binding on other courts, Harvey's lawsuit could become a national test case. ``DNA testing is becoming so accurate that any intelligent judge is going to say, `If there's any doubt, you should have a right to test.' If they can prove your guilt, why can't you prove your nonguilt?'' said John Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute, a conservative civil liberties group that is not involved in the Harvey case. If Bryan's decision reaches higher courts and is upheld, it could unleash a flood of lawsuits, The Washington Post reported Saturday. Most jurisdictions, including Virginia, do not guarantee prisoners the right to post-conviction DNA testing. Instead, prisoners must depend on prosecutors and governors to grant access to the laboratory work they claim could clear them. Jack Gould, an attorney for Fairfax Commonwealth's Attorney Robert F. Horan Jr., whose rejection of Harvey's request prompted the lawsuit, said the arguments the judge addressed were technical arguments. ``There will be further proceedings,'' he said. Post-conviction DNA testing has freed more than 70 prisoners, including eight from death rows, but a national debate is raging over how widely to make the technology available. Harvey was convicted of a 1989 rape in which a woman was raped and beaten by two men. No DNA testing was done at the time, and the witness was unable to identify her attackers; the key evidence came from a man who said Harvey had confessed to him. Fairfax officials turned down Harvey's initial request for DNA testing, saying a negative result would not prove his innocence because there were two assailants. Gould argued that Harvey's civil rights lawsuit to get DNA testing was an attempt to get around the strict rules of criminal appeals and Virginia's one-year deadline for filing a habeas corpus appeal arguing he was wrongly imprisoned. But the federal judge wrote that Harvey may still have a constitutional right to testing. Denial of DNA testing is a new civil rights claim and separate from the strictly regulated habeas corpus process, Bryan wrote. ``This is a very good sign,'' said Barry Scheck, co-founder of the New York-based Innocence Project, which represents Harvey and other prisoners who claim they were wrongly convicted. ``We can't ever get into state court because of the statute of limitations. We've lost in many places because it's too late.'' On the Net: Fairfax County: http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ Innocence Project: http://www.criminaljustice.org/PUBLIC/cardozo.htm Rutherford Institute: http://www.rutherford.org/ AP-NY-09-30-00 1651EDT >> --part1_77.a3efd41.2708ddc3_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Martinyant@aol.com Full-name: Martinyant Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:06:30 EDT Subject: Va Judge: Inmates Can Get DNA Test To: jilliand@pdq.net, dberry@i2020.net, jblank@pgh.net, abe@cuadp.org, peachtub@email.msn.com, gcastelle@wvdefender.com, RED120@cs.com, nancyserickson@mciworld.com, cureohio@dnaco.net, spms@fuse.net, FELDMEIERJ@aol.com, freepress@iwaynet.net, tgilbert@f-glaw.com, gilbert_terry@msn.com, tgray@NMSU.Edu, rhalperi@post.cis.smu.edu, rhuff@e4e.oac.uci.edu, Baillady51@aol.com, yar@eriecoast.com, KJohn39679@aol.com, MoseLayman@aol.com, gabelpaving@mindspring.com, source@columbus.rr.com, WWall10039@aol.com, jmorse@onebox.com, mick.morton@bbc.co.uk, jennyreach@hotmail.com, Rlwchi@aol.com, StutzRost1@aol.com, sarnoff@ohio.edu, prjlaw@wv-cis.net, BETS1949@aol.com, rep08@ohr.state.oh.us, WLSLAWYER@aol.com, SAWebster@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) - Inmates who claim they were wrongfully convicted have a constitutional right to request DNA testing that might prove their innocence, a federal judge ruled. U.S. District Judge Albert V. Bryan Jr. issued the ruling Friday in the case of James Harvey, 59, who was convicted of rape in 1990. Bryan did not order DNA testing for Harvey but said the 14th Amendment allows state prisoners to file federal civil rights lawsuits seeking DNA testing. Although a district judge's decision is not binding on other courts, Harvey's lawsuit could become a national test case. ``DNA testing is becoming so accurate that any intelligent judge is going to say, `If there's any doubt, you should have a right to test.' If they can prove your guilt, why can't you prove your nonguilt?'' said John Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute, a conservative civil liberties group that is not involved in the Harvey case. If Bryan's decision reaches higher courts and is upheld, it could unleash a flood of lawsuits, The Washington Post reported Saturday. Most jurisdictions, including Virginia, do not guarantee prisoners the right to post-conviction DNA testing. Instead, prisoners must depend on prosecutors and governors to grant access to the laboratory work they claim could clear them. Jack Gould, an attorney for Fairfax Commonwealth's Attorney Robert F. Horan Jr., whose rejection of Harvey's request prompted the lawsuit, said the arguments the judge addressed were technical arguments. ``There will be further proceedings,'' he said. Post-conviction DNA testing has freed more than 70 prisoners, including eight from death rows, but a national debate is raging over how widely to make the technology available. Harvey was convicted of a 1989 rape in which a woman was raped and beaten by two men. No DNA testing was done at the time, and the witness was unable to identify her attackers; the key evidence came from a man who said Harvey had confessed to him. Fairfax officials turned down Harvey's initial request for DNA testing, saying a negative result would not prove his innocence because there were two assailants. Gould argued that Harvey's civil rights lawsuit to get DNA testing was an attempt to get around the strict rules of criminal appeals and Virginia's one-year deadline for filing a habeas corpus appeal arguing he was wrongly imprisoned. But the federal judge wrote that Harvey may still have a constitutional right to testing. Denial of DNA testing is a new civil rights claim and separate from the strictly regulated habeas corpus process, Bryan wrote. ``This is a very good sign,'' said Barry Scheck, co-founder of the New York-based Innocence Project, which represents Harvey and other prisoners who claim they were wrongly convicted. ``We can't ever get into state court because of the statute of limitations. We've lost in many places because it's too late.'' On the Net: Fairfax County: http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ Innocence Project: http://www.criminaljustice.org/PUBLIC/cardozo.htm Rutherford Institute: http://www.rutherford.org/ AP-NY-09-30-00 1651EDT Copyright 2000 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. Martin Yant Author, Journalist & Private Investigator PO Box 14306 Columbus, OH 43214 Phone: 614-447-8456 Fax: 614-447-8465 http://truthinjustice.org/yant/ --part1_77.a3efd41.2708ddc3_boundary-- From forens-owner Sun Oct 1 18:46:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07991 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web2002.mail.yahoo.com (web2002.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.202]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07986 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1291 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Oct 2000 22:46:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20001001224643.1290.qmail@web2002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.188.199.39] by web2002.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:46:43 PDT Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:46:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Claire Donaghey Subject: steroids references To: Forensic Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk this is a question for all you drug chemists out there. Can anyone recommend publications useful in the identification of forgein-manufactured steroids? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Claire Donaghey Forensic Scientist DuPage County Crime Lab Wheaton, IL __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From forens-owner Mon Oct 2 07:41:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14011 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r14.mail.aol.com (imo-r14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14006 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:41:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Rijeca@aol.com Received: from Rijeca@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id y.8f.1478786 (6932) for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f.1478786.2709ce39@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:40:41 EDT Subject: suggestions, please To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 106 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello all, I am delurking once again to ask for suggestions from all list members. I am a biology (pre-med) undergraduate. I have a 4.0 grade point average and am a member of two biology clubs at my school. I am a full time student, a full time mother and a full time employee for a local retail chain. I plan to apply to a forensic science masters degree program upon graduation. The program I want to pursue takes only 16 students a year and as of now they have over 300 applications. I was wondering if anyone could give me some suggestions as to what I can do to make myself stand out above the hundred of applicants when I go to apply. Any suggestions you may have would be extremely helpful to me. Feel free to reply to me off list. Thank you Serena Grant Rijeca@aol.com From forens-owner Mon Oct 2 08:40:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14584 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14579 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA17956; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:40:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Oliver To: Bob Kegel cc: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Turn signal bulb In-Reply-To: <013201c02aaa$22ef7820$a38f2640@bobkegel> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I will second Dave House's caveat, since this is out of my field also. However.... At a recent AAFS meeting, the NAME interim session was on automobile stuff and one person went through some of the things you could get from various manufacturer's recording devices installed on most new cars. As I remember, whether or not the breaks were applied was one of them. I don't know if the actual status (burned out vs OK) of various lights was one of them or not. That doesn't help with the physics lab problem, but may well provide a better data point for accident reconstruction. billo On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Bob Kegel wrote: > From: Bob Kegel > > On Friday, September 29, 2000, at 21:07, Mike Horton wrote: > > > > There is a University near me that teaches a course on determining if > a car > > light bulb was on or off during the time of a collision. > > Northwestern University's Center for Public Safety, formerly theTraffic > Institute, offers a report "Lamp Examination for On or Off in Traffic > Accidents" #TP823 for $12. http://www.northwestern.edu/nucps/ > > A critigue of this document is available at http://mfes.com/lamps.htm > > > The first and the third bulbs were indistinguishable from each other. > If it > > is a turn signal in question, how can one tell if it was on at the > time? > > A hot filiment is subject to stretching when subjected to the impact of > a collision. The stretching can be obliterated if the bulb survices the > crash and is subsequently turned on again. > > > I plan on having my students devise an experiment to determine if a > car > > which struck another vehicle had its turn signal on. > > Examining bulbs from junkyard wrecks might be interesting, too. > > LPO Bob Kegel > Aberdeen PD > Aberdeen WA > From forens-owner Mon Oct 2 09:29:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15685 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hydrogen.cen.brad.ac.uk (hydrogen.cen.brad.ac.uk [143.53.241.18]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15680 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kestrel.cen.brad.ac.uk (kestrel.cen.brad.ac.uk [143.53.238.5]) by hydrogen.cen.brad.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18213 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:29:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from Brutonpc (bruton-day-pc.chem.brad.ac.uk [143.53.20.40]) by kestrel.cen.brad.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA01604 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:29:40 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20001002142948.03e9918c@pop.brad.ac.uk> X-Sender: gbruton@pop.brad.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:29:48 +0100 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Geoff Bruton Subject: Re: Turn signal bulb In-Reply-To: References: <013201c02aaa$22ef7820$a38f2640@bobkegel> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi all, Just to add my two-penneth - and again, not my field, I'm afraid... We briefly covered this particular topic as part of our undergraduate course, here at Bradford (UK), though I think it was perhaps more applicable to car headlights, rather than indicators. The technique we used was electron microscopy, by which examination of the lamp filament was possible. Assuming the light was lit at the point of impact - and therefore broken - the fused filament could be observed. This was apparent by an approximately spherical 'bead' at the head of the filament. I'm afraid I do not know what would be observed if an indicator was blinking 'off' at the time of impact... Any further thoughts? Warm regards to all, Geoff. Geoff Bruton Department of Chemical & Forensic Sciences University of Bradford United Kingdom From forens-owner Mon Oct 2 10:31:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16591 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail013.mail.onemain.com (SMTP-OUT001.ONEMAIN.COM [63.208.208.71]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16586 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27310 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2000 14:31:14 -0000 Received: from 209-165-23.1.lightspeed.net ([209.165.23.1]) (envelope-sender ) by mail013.mail.onemain.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 2 Oct 2000 14:31:14 -0000 Received: from SCANMAIL by 209-165-23.1.lightspeed.net via smtpd (for [63.208.208.82]) with SMTP; 2 Oct 2000 14:30:25 UT Received: FROM co.kern.ca.us BY scanmail.co.kern.ca.us ; Mon Oct 02 07:30:36 2000 -0700 Received: from KERNMAIL-Message_Server by co.kern.ca.us with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 Oct 2000 07:30:52 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 07:30:00 -0700 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: scitch@inland.net, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Turn signal bulb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Mike, The examination of filaments for both headlamps and turn signals is not as complex as it first may appear. When the the heated fialment is subject to shock, it will bend or bow and some time break. This is readily visible using a good stereo microscope. If the glass breaks while the filament is glowing, not only will you get bending and bowing but the tungstun filament will rapidly oxidize. The result will be a dull film or appearance to the filament. Often, the broken ends of the filament will show signs of either fusing or arcing as well as bits of fused molten glass will adhere to the filament. In a cold fracture, there will be a sharp break noticeble at the end filament ends. Filament should remain lusterous over it length. Ther is a possibilty of a material known as 'getter' coating the fialment. This material is present as a result of manufacture. It appears as a dull white film. In your experiment, the simiulation of the blinking bulb, you may have allowed too much time for the filament to cool down. Thus, you did not duplicate a real worl experience. I suggest you disconnect the tail light socket from your taillight lens and place your test bulbs in it, and break the bulbs as they are blinking while attached to your own vehicle or some student's vehicle who is dire need of extra credit. No damage to the vehicle should result. Remember, proper protective gear such as safety glasses and gloves are recommended! Good luck! >>> "M. Horton" 09/29 9:07 PM >>> There is a University near me that teaches a course on determining if a car light bulb was on or off during the time of a collision. This got me thinking of ways to make this a lab in either a chemistry or physics class. I purchased some "Automobile Signal Lamps, 12 V). With one, I just broke the glass. With another, I broke the glass while the bulb was hooked up to 12V, 1.5 A. With a third, to simulate a blinking signal light, I turned it on for a few seconds and then broke the glass right after turning it off. The first and the third bulbs were indistinguishable from each other. If it is a turn signal in question, how can one tell if it was on at the time? Is it that after the glass breaks, it will continue to flash as long as the filament doesn't break, hence looking like the first bulb? I plan on having my students devise an experiment to determine if a car which struck another vehicle had its turn signal on. Thanks in advance, Mike Horton Chem/Physics Teacher, Dept. Chair Perris High School, CA From forens-owner Mon Oct 2 12:34:00 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18959 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [64.240.232.234] ([64.240.232.234]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18954 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hbpdmail01.surfcity-hb.org by [64.240.232.234] via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 2 Oct 2000 16:33:31 UT Received: by HBPDMAIL01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:36:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE047F0D6@HBPDMAIL01> From: "Thompson, Jeff" To: "'M. Horton'" Cc: "'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group'" Subject: RE: Turn signal bulb Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:36:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Quoting from pg. 26 of the book Bob Kegel recommends: "Turn signal and emergency flashing lights go on and off between one and two times per second. Current is flowing in the filament about half that time, more or less depending on frequency of flashing; a signal could have as much as 0.6 seconds cool-off between flashes...Filaments can oxidize more than half a second after current is off, and hot deformation can occur several seconds afterward...therefore, while flashing, lamps can only show an ON indication regardless of whether the crash occurred in the light or dark phase of the flashing." It is a good book, well worth the money. I think it could make a good physics lab, especially if you have them determine what speed is necessary to deform the filament from impact (since an incandescent filament is fairly close to it's melting point, it has much less strength than a cold filament, & will permanently deform upon sufficient impact). Bulbs could be mounted on a sled or pendulum, & allowed to roll or swing against a barrier at different speeds to see when the filament will deform, & then students could be given deformed and undeformed lamps & decide it they were on (plus you do not end up with broken glass all over the place). -----Original Message----- From: M. Horton [mailto:scitch@inland.net] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 9:07 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Turn signal bulb There is a University near me that teaches a course on determining if a car light bulb was on or off during the time of a collision. This got me thinking of ways to make this a lab in either a chemistry or physics class. I purchased some "Automobile Signal Lamps, 12 V). With one, I just broke the glass. With another, I broke the glass while the bulb was hooked up to 12V, 1.5 A. With a third, to simulate a blinking signal light, I turned it on for a few seconds and then broke the glass right after turning it off. The first and the third bulbs were indistinguishable from each other. If it is a turn signal in question, how can one tell if it was on at the time? Is it that after the glass breaks, it will continue to flash as long as the filament doesn't break, hence looking like the first bulb? I plan on having my students devise an experiment to determine if a car which struck another vehicle had its turn signal on. Thanks in advance, Mike Horton Chem/Physics Teacher, Dept. Chair Perris High School, CA From forens-owner Mon Oct 2 12:46:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19230 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [64.240.232.234] ([64.240.232.234]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19225 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hbpdmail01.surfcity-hb.org by [64.240.232.234] via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 2 Oct 2000 16:46:07 UT Received: by HBPDMAIL01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:49:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE047F0D9@HBPDMAIL01> From: "Thompson, Jeff" To: "'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group'" Subject: FW: Turn signal bulb Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:48:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Thompson, Jeff Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 9:36 AM To: 'M. Horton' Cc: 'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group' Subject: RE: Turn signal bulb Quoting from pg. 26 of the book Bob Kegel recommends: "Turn signal and emergency flashing lights go on and off between one and two times per second. Current is flowing in the filament about half that time, more or less depending on frequency of flashing; a signal could have as much as 0.6 seconds cool-off between flashes...Filaments can oxidize more than half a second after current is off, and hot deformation can occur several seconds afterward...therefore, while flashing, lamps can only show an ON indication regardless of whether the crash occurred in the light or dark phase of the flashing." It is a good book, well worth the money. I think it could make a good physics lab, especially if you have them determine what speed is necessary to deform the filament from impact (since an incandescent filament is fairly close to it's melting point, it has much less strength than a cold filament, & will permanently deform upon sufficient impact). Bulbs could be mounted on a sled or pendulum, & allowed to roll or swing against a barrier at different speeds to see when the filament will deform, & then students could be given deformed and undeformed lamps & decide it they were on (plus you do not end up with broken glass all over the place). Jeff Thompson, F-ABC Supervising Criminalist Scientific Investigation Unit Huntington Beach Police Dept. Huntington Beach, CA (USA) (forgot this part last time) -----Original Message----- From: M. Horton [mailto:scitch@inland.net] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 9:07 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Turn signal bulb There is a University near me that teaches a course on determining if a car light bulb was on or off during the time of a collision. This got me thinking of ways to make this a lab in either a chemistry or physics class. I purchased some "Automobile Signal Lamps, 12 V). With one, I just broke the glass. With another, I broke the glass while the bulb was hooked up to 12V, 1.5 A. With a third, to simulate a blinking signal light, I turned it on for a few seconds and then broke the glass right after turning it off. The first and the third bulbs were indistinguishable from each other. If it is a turn signal in question, how can one tell if it was on at the time? Is it that after the glass breaks, it will continue to flash as long as the filament doesn't break, hence looking like the first bulb? I plan on having my students devise an experiment to determine if a car which struck another vehicle had its turn signal on. Thanks in advance, Mike Horton Chem/Physics Teacher, Dept. Chair Perris High School, CA From forens-owner Mon Oct 2 14:11:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20728 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wsp-dc-exch1.wsp.wa.gov ([167.72.128.51]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20722 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:11:33 -0400 (EDT) From: hgriffi@wsp.wa.gov Message-Id: <200010021811.OAA20722@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu> Received: by wsp-dc-exch1.wsp.wa.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:14:09 -0700 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu, scitch@inland.net Subject: RE: Turn signal bulb Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:11:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Mike, I was just about to send you the quote from the NW Traffic Institute book when I saw Jeff Thompson's e-mail. What I have actually observed is that the filaments in a flashing lamp show variable oxidation and distortion depending on the portion of the cycle they are in when electrical continuity is broken. The indications can be equivalent to those for a fully incandescent filament (yellow tungsten oxide formation if the glass is broken - possibly with melted glass fragments on the filament - plus severe distortion of the filament if the lamp is directly impacted). However, I have also observed limited oxidation and distortion that have indicated that the filament was warm/hot, but not fully incandescent. Breaking a number of turn signal lamps while they are flashing and publishing a paper on the results would be a very worth while project both for your students and the forensic community. Everything that happens with vehicle lamps during impacts is related to some aspect of physics. I would like to add to what Bob Kegel said - "A hot filiment is subject to stretching when subjected to the impact of a collision. The stretching can be obliterated if the bulb survices the crash and is subsequently turned on again." Tungsten is very ductile at incandescent temperatures, but not when cold. I have stretched out cold tungsten filaments when they are new, but as the filaments age they recrystallize and become more brittle. The more brittle a filament is, the more likely it is to undergo brittle fractures when subjected to shock while cold. Regardless of the filament's age it is easily stretched beyond its elastic limit when at incandescent temperatures (~2200 C). Once stretched beyond its elastic limit the filament will retain its distorted shape when it cools. If it was reheated it could again be distorted, but I would question there being any great likelihood of it returning to the original shape. Greg Laskowski said that headlamp examinations are straight forward. In some ways yes and in some ways no. I spend a lot of time explaining to traffic officers why they should send lamps in to the lab rather than doing their own interpretations. There are anomalies in the manufacture of the lamps and there is anomalous behavior for lamps in accidents. Once upon a time there were only a few types of lamps, headlamps were all sealed beams, cars had steel bodies and lamp examinations were straight forward. Now some lamps lock in with indexing while some push in with wedge bases. Some lamps are totally surrounded by fiberglass or plastic. Lamp testing done by Ray Gieszl demonstrated that a halogen can withstand the force of a 50 mph head-on collision with a wall without distortion. Yet I saw distortion in a halogen involved in a 15 mph fender bender. I have read that the force of impact between a car and pedestrian should not be sufficient to distort headlamp filaments, but I've observed distortion in pedestrian impact cases. There is almost nothing published on modern lamps in modern car bodies. I would encourage anyone who has the time and ability to do research and publish the results. The recommendation of obtaining lamps from wrecking yards is good. I also know of an examiner who has the body shop provide him with the lamps they replace after impacts. These are my opinions and do not necessarily relect those of my employer. Helen R. Griffin ---------- From: M. Horton To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Turn signal bulb Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 9:07PM There is a University near me that teaches a course on determining if a car light bulb was on or off during the time of a collision. This got me thinking of ways to make this a lab in either a chemistry or physics class. I purchased some "Automobile Signal Lamps, 12 V). With one, I just broke the glass. With another, I broke the glass while the bulb was hooked up to 12V, 1.5 A. With a third, to simulate a blinking signal light, I turned it on for a few seconds and then broke the glass right after turning it off. The first and the third bulbs were indistinguishable from each other. If it is a turn signal in question, how can one tell if it was on at the time? Is it that after the glass breaks, it will continue to flash as long as the filament doesn't break, hence looking like the first bulb? I plan on having my students devise an experiment to determine if a car which struck another vehicle had its turn signal on. Thanks in advance, Mike Horton Chem/Physics Teacher, Dept. Chair Perris High School, CA From forens-owner Mon Oct 2 15:53:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22126 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firewall.ircc.cc.fl.us (thor2.ircc.cc.fl.us [209.149.16.4]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA22120 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exch1.ircc.cc.fl.us by firewall.ircc.cc.fl.us via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 2 Oct 2000 19:53:09 UT Received: by exch1.ircc.cc.fl.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:41:35 -0400 Message-ID: From: Robert Parsons To: "FORENS-L POSTING (E-mail)" , "Forensic Science list (e-Groups) (E-mail)" , "TIAFT listserv (E-mail)" Subject: Hair analysis for cocaine Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:41:34 -0400 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C02CA8.C54A90A0" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C02CA8.C54A90A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Can anyone provide a referral to a lab performing analysis of hair for the presence of cocaine, that is, toxicological screening for cocaine abuse using hair? We have had an inquiry regarding this, but we do not perform this type of analysis. I understand and have explained the controversy regarding analysis of hair samples as an indicator of drug abuse, but the inquirer would like to pursue the issue with someone who actually does the work. Thanks. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Regional Crime Laboratory at Indian River Community College Ft. 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Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C02D44.115DA630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My thanks to everyone who replied with sources for this kind of exam. I now have all the info I need. I was a bit surprised how widespread this kind of analysis has become, given the continuing controversy over environmental contamination and passive exposure. Thanks again, everyone! Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Regional Crime Laboratory at Indian River Community College Ft. 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I am a MSU graduate student and for a forensic chemistry project I need to find the synthesis of MPPP from meperidine. I know the structures of both but do not see the chemistry behind this synthesis. I have tried too many websites and several books. Most literature discusses the toxic side product MPTP but I actually need the synthesis with precusors etc. Can ANYONE help me! Thank you -Sarah Walbridge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From forens-owner Tue Oct 3 14:56:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06664 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from del1.vsnl.net.in (giasdl01.vsnl.net.in [202.54.15.1]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06659 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com ([203.197.229.173]) by del1.vsnl.net.in (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e945TMp12237; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:29:23 -0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <39DA26DA.A420B5A@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:05:06 +0530 From: "Dr. Anil Aggrawal" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (Linguistics)" Subject: Info required Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Dear List members. Here is an E-mail which I received from a Malaysian National needing some help. Kindly do the needful. ******* Dear Dr. Aggarwal, I, Dr. Vijaya Kumar V., am a Malaysian practising in Malaysia. I completed my M.B.B.S from Mysore University in 1994. I wish to pursue my masters in Forensic Medicine. I need your advice on the colleges in Australia, offering post graduate programmes in Forensic Medicine. Monash Univerity, Australia have mentioned that they are giving a 2 1/2 year part time course which is a diploma. Is it similar to the ones being offered by the Inidan Universities? I am interested in directly going for an MD programme. Is there any other country that offers MD in Forensic Medicine similar to India. Being a Malaysian, I am at a disadvantage to pursue my course in India as they seem to prefer Indians only. In your view, is there any college in India that offers this course to Foreign Nationals. If so, kindly send me the list of colleges that offer the same. You may contact me at: drvijay64@hotmail.com Hoping to hear from you at the earliest. Thanking you, your sincerely, Dr. Vijaya Kumar. V. ******** Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 Phone: 6465460, 6413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1.Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://anil299.tripod.com/indexpapers.html 2. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 3. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ From forens-owner Tue Oct 3 16:45:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07970 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07965 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ix.netcom.com (bsg-ma1b-122.ix.netcom.com [209.110.249.122]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13084; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39DA4691.799503C6@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:50:25 -0400 From: Rachel Boersma X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD473 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sarah Walbridge , forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Drug Synthesis References: <20001003172129.2759.qmail@web9903.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Sarah, here is a weblink to a post in the newsgroup alt.chemistry which discusses references and the synthesis. http://x74.deja.com/[ST_rn=fs]/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=675585418.1&mhitnum=4 Rachel R. Boersma, MS, RN, CARN Forensic Nursing Consultation Psychiatric and Addiction Specialist Tel: (978) 433-9342 Fax: (978) 433-9057 Email: RachRB@ix.netcom.com Web: http://firms.findlaw.com/RachRB Sarah Walbridge wrote: > I am posting this message (again) hoping to find > someone who can help me. I am a MSU graduate student > and for a forensic chemistry project I need to find > the synthesis of MPPP from meperidine. I know the > structures of both but do not see the chemistry behind > this synthesis. I have tried too many websites and > several books. Most literature discusses the toxic > side product MPTP but I actually need the synthesis > with precusors etc. Can ANYONE help me! > > Thank you > -Sarah Walbridge > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- From forens-owner Tue Oct 3 18:17:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08994 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08989 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:17:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Rijeca@aol.com Received: from Rijeca@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id y.a0.a6d5829 (4231) for ; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:16:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:16:54 EDT Subject: Many thanks To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 106 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello all, I would like to thank everyone who emailed me with the suggestions for which I asked. Your insight and advice will undoubtedly put me in the right direction. Thank you all very much. Serena Grant From forens-owner Wed Oct 4 09:29:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17409 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw1.netvision.net.il (mailgw1.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.14]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17404 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from naiedeta (ras9-p91.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.166.91]) by mailgw1.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA17410 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:29:40 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <000e01c02e06$be88ed20$5ba6003e@naiedeta> From: "Naiedet" To: Subject: E-Mail needed Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:26:44 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C02E1F.E2C99720" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C02E1F.E2C99720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi List Members Does anybody have the E-Manil of Tom Bevel and/or Ross M. Gardner (the = authors of "Bloodstain Pattern Analysis.....) Thanks Shemuel Berger naiedet@netvision.net.il ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C02E1F.E2C99720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi List Members
 
Does anybody have the E-Manil of Tom = Bevel and/or=20 Ross M. Gardner (the authors of "Bloodstain Pattern = Analysis.....)
 
Thanks
Shemuel Berger
naiedet@netvision.net.il
 
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C02E1F.E2C99720-- From forens-owner Wed Oct 4 09:39:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17806 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from h3-exch3.cmpd.ci.charlotte.nc.us (h3-exch3.cmpd.ci.charlotte.nc.us [207.49.100.4]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17801 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by h3-exch3.cmpd.ci.charlotte.nc.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:38:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: "French, Tim" To: "'Naiedet'" , forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: E-Mail needed Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:38:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C02E08.5F225338" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C02E08.5F225338 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C02E08.5F225338" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02E08.5F225338 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The IABPA roster I have has the snail-mail addresses for both and a phone number for Tom Bevel. Contact me if you want those. Tim French Criminalist II Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department Crime Laboratory 704-336-7750 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02E08.5F225338 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The IABPA roster I have has the snail-mail addresses for both and a phone number for Tom Bevel. Contact me if you want those.
 

Tim French
Criminalist II
Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department
Crime Laboratory
704-336-7750

 

 
------_=_NextPart_001_01C02E08.5F225338-- ------_=_NextPart_000_01C02E08.5F225338 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: E-Mail needed Message-ID: <000e01c02e06$be88ed20$5ba6003e@naiedeta> From: Naiedet To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: E-Mail needed Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:26:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_003_01C02E08.5F225338" ------_=_NextPart_003_01C02E08.5F225338 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi List Members Does anybody have the E-Manil of Tom Bevel and/or Ross M. Gardner (the authors of "Bloodstain Pattern Analysis.....) Thanks Shemuel Berger naiedet@netvision.net.il ------_=_NextPart_003_01C02E08.5F225338 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi List Members
 
Does anybody have the E-Manil of Tom Bevel and/or Ross M. Gardner (the authors of "Bloodstain Pattern Analysis.....)
 
Thanks
Shemuel Berger
 
------_=_NextPart_003_01C02E08.5F225338-- ------_=_NextPart_000_01C02E08.5F225338-- From forens-owner Wed Oct 4 09:49:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18016 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f293.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.30.168]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18011 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:49:18 -0700 Received: from 62.0.180.192 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 13:49:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.0.180.192] From: "NAYEDET MAZAP" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cc: hamoshe@hotmail.com Subject: looking for BPA experts E-mails Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 15:49:18 IST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Oct 2000 13:49:18.0641 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4501210:01C02E09] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Dear list members. I'm looking for the E-mail addresses of Ms. Tom Bevel or Ms. Ross Gardner, the authors of "BloodStain Pattern Analysis". thanks. Superintendent Arie Moshe, serious crime scene mobile lab. Division of Identification,Israel National Police. mazap_n_m@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Wed Oct 4 10:49:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18848 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r15.mail.aol.com (imo-r15.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.69]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18843 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:49:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Sliiide7@aol.com Received: from Sliiide7@aol.com by imo-r15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id i.c2.15ebb87 (4423); Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:48:42 EDT Subject: Re: looking for BPA experts E-mails To: mazap_n_m@hotmail.com, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu CC: hamoshe@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 119 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Arie- Ross Gardner is at RMGForensic@compuserve.com (770) 477-5107 Tom Bevel is tbevel@compuserve.com (405) 447-4469 Stacey Wingo Criminalist Allen PD Allen, Texas (972) 727-7577 From forens-owner Wed Oct 4 16:35:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23324 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scn4.scn.org (scn4.scn.org [209.63.95.149]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23319 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scn.org (bi492@scn [209.63.95.146]) by scn4.scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01211 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bi492@localhost) by scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA26538; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200010042038.NAA26538@scn.org> From: bi492@scn.org (Chesterene Cwiklik) To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: New book by Inman and Rudin Reply-To: bi492@scn.org Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Dear listmembers I just yesterday picked up my copy of "Principles and Practice of Criminalistics" by Keith Inman and Norah Rudin. It is excellent! Congratulations to the authors! Chesterene Cwiklik -- Cwiklik & Associates 2400 6th Avenue South #257 Seattle, WA 98134 (206)623-3637 FAX (206)623-4384 From forens-owner Wed Oct 4 18:26:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24540 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r16.mail.aol.com (imo-r16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.70]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24535 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:26:17 -0400 (EDT) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.24.) id y.47.1a91427 (17233) for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <47.1a91427.270d0861@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:25:37 EDT Subject: Fwd: A washingtonpost.com article from KJOHN39679@AOL.COM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_47.1a91427.270d0861_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 66 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk --part1_47.1a91427.270d0861_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/4/00 6:05:28 PM, register@washingtonpost.com writes: << To view the entire article, go to http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3033-2000Oct3.html FBI Singled Out Lee For Probe, Trulock Says The Department of Energy intelligence chief who spearheaded a 1995 probe into suspected Chinese espionage at Los Alamos National Laboratory yesterday blamed the FBI for targeting physicist Wen Ho Lee as the government's prime suspect and denied that racial profiling played a role in the case. "It was the FBI that focused solely on Dr. Lee," Notra Trulock III told a Senate Judiciary subcommittee in his first public defense since Lee pleaded guilty last month to a single felony count of downloading nuclear weapons secrets and was released from jail. "Our final report listed 12 investigative leads for the FBI, not just from Los Alamos but also from [Lawrence] Livermore [National Laboratory]; not just Asian Americans, but also Caucasians from both laboratories," Trulock said. "DOE believed that the FBI would pursue all 12 leads with equal vigor and diligence." At the hearing, Trulock also injected himself into a growing controversy over who first identified Lee by name as the ! suspect in the espionage investigation. Lee and his wife, Sylvia, have filed a civil suit against the FBI, the Department of Justice and the Department of Energy, alleging that Lee's privacy was violated by government leaks to the press. Responding to a question from subcommittee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), Trulock said he believed that Energy Secretary Bill Richardson was responsible for leaking Lee's name to the media in March 1999 as Richardson ordered Lee's dismissal for violating lab security regulations. Asked how he knew Richardson was the source, Trulock responded, "One of the reporters involved in the publication of the stories in question told me directly that Secretary Richardson had provided to him the name of Wen Ho Lee." Trulock said the reporter who named Richardson as his source was James Risen of the New York Times. Risen, who co-authored the paper's story about alleged Chinese espionage at Los Alamos, said yesterday that he had "no comment" about Trul! ock's statement. He did say that his newspaper got Lee's name "the same way The Washington Post and the network news got it" and that the name "was on the wires [meaning the Associated Press] before we got it." Energy Department spokesman Stu Nagurka, asked about Trulock's allegation, said that Richardson "categorically denies this outrageous accusation." Trulock resigned from the Energy Department last year to take a job in the private sector. Yesterday's hearing is the latest of several aimed at clearing up some of the controversies that have swirled in the wake of Lee's guilty plea and his agreement to undergo FBI interrogation under oath to explain his actions. A panel of nuclear weapons experts agreed that two of the three categories of nuclear codes were classified and shouldn't have been downloaded by Lee. But they disagreed on how important the downloaded tapes he made would be in helping any country produce its own nuclear weapons. There was also disagreement betw! een Trulock and Robert S. Vrooman, the former counterintelligence chief at Los Alamos, as to whether Lee had been the victim of racial profiling. The government last month accepted a plea from Lee and agreed to drop the 58 other counts it had originally brought against Lee after he promised to fully cooperate with government prosecutors and provide a detailed description of why he downloaded the classified nuclear material and what he did with the tapes he made. Lee was held in solitary confinement at the behest of government prosecutors, spurring an apology from a federal judge in Albuquerque and triggering controversy about the way in which he was incarcerated and prosecuted. At yesterday's hearing, a nuclear scientist who played a critical role in attacking the government case admitted that he "erred" in testimony during a critical bail hearing for Lee in August when he gave the impression that 99 percent of the material Lee downloaded was unclassified. John L. Richter, ! who retired from Los Alamos several years ago but remains a lab consultant, told the senators that he considered only one of the three different computer categories that Lee downloaded to portable tapes to be 99 percent unclassified. The other two categories he said were classified and "should not be" made available to other nations. Richter said he agreed with Los Alamos deputy director Stephen Younger, who also testified, that information in the downloaded materials relating to plutonium and uranium are not found in open literature. Richter maintained, however, that more than just the downloaded tapes would have been needed to make sophisticated nuclear warheads such as the U.S. maintains. It requires, "a four-foot shelf of drawings, specifications, material processes and so forth . . . and that's not on the tapes." Throughout the hearing, Trulock clashed with Vrooman, who quoted from a Department of Energy document on the espionage case drafted by Trulock stating that "W! en Ho Lee appears to have the opportunity, means and motivation" to leak W-88 warhead secrets to China. "Based on my experience and observations, I concluded that racial profiling of Asian Americans as a result of the investigation indeed took place," Vrooman said. Trulock denied the charge, describing the document he produced on the case as "a records check as is performed in routine security reviews on a daily basis in Washington." He also charged that Vrooman was the person who first focused on Lee as a potential target. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:05:28 -0400 Received: from nas1.washingtonpost.com (nas1.washingtonpost.com [206.132.25.65]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:04:57 -0400 Received: from nas1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nas1.washingtonpost.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA23730 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:04:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200010042204.SAA23730@nas1.washingtonpost.com> Subject: A washingtonpost.com article from KJOHN39679@AOL.COM >> --part1_47.1a91427.270d0861_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:05:28 -0400 Received: from nas1.washingtonpost.com (nas1.washingtonpost.com [206.132.25.65]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:04:57 -0400 Received: from nas1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nas1.washingtonpost.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA23730 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:04:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200010042204.SAA23730@nas1.washingtonpost.com> Subject: A washingtonpost.com article from KJOHN39679@AOL.COM To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Unknown You have been sent this message from KJOHN39679@AOL.COM as a courtesy of the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com). To stay on top of the latest political headlines, live discussions and breaking news, register now for the OnPolitics email at http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/email/email.htm. To view the entire article, go to http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3033-2000Oct3.html FBI Singled Out Lee For Probe, Trulock Says The Department of Energy intelligence chief who spearheaded a 1995 probe into suspected Chinese espionage at Los Alamos National Laboratory yesterday blamed the FBI for targeting physicist Wen Ho Lee as the government's prime suspect and denied that racial profiling played a role in the case. "It was the FBI that focused solely on Dr. Lee," Notra Trulock III told a Senate Judiciary subcommittee in his first public defense since Lee pleaded guilty last month to a single felony count of downloading nuclear weapons secrets and was released from jail. "Our final report listed 12 investigative leads for the FBI, not just from Los Alamos but also from [Lawrence] Livermore [National Laboratory]; not just Asian Americans, but also Caucasians from both laboratories," Trulock said. "DOE believed that the FBI would pursue all 12 leads with equal vigor and diligence." At the hearing, Trulock also injected himself into a growing controversy over who first identified Lee by name as the ! suspect in the espionage investigation. Lee and his wife, Sylvia, have filed a civil suit against the FBI, the Department of Justice and the Department of Energy, alleging that Lee's privacy was violated by government leaks to the press. Responding to a question from subcommittee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), Trulock said he believed that Energy Secretary Bill Richardson was responsible for leaking Lee's name to the media in March 1999 as Richardson ordered Lee's dismissal for violating lab security regulations. Asked how he knew Richardson was the source, Trulock responded, "One of the reporters involved in the publication of the stories in question told me directly that Secretary Richardson had provided to him the name of Wen Ho Lee." Trulock said the reporter who named Richardson as his source was James Risen of the New York Times. Risen, who co-authored the paper's story about alleged Chinese espionage at Los Alamos, said yesterday that he had "no comment" about Trul! ock's statement. He did say that his newspaper got Lee's name "the same way The Washington Post and the network news got it" and that the name "was on the wires [meaning the Associated Press] before we got it." Energy Department spokesman Stu Nagurka, asked about Trulock's allegation, said that Richardson "categorically denies this outrageous accusation." Trulock resigned from the Energy Department last year to take a job in the private sector. Yesterday's hearing is the latest of several aimed at clearing up some of the controversies that have swirled in the wake of Lee's guilty plea and his agreement to undergo FBI interrogation under oath to explain his actions. A panel of nuclear weapons experts agreed that two of the three categories of nuclear codes were classified and shouldn't have been downloaded by Lee. But they disagreed on how important the downloaded tapes he made would be in helping any country produce its own nuclear weapons. There was also disagreement betw! een Trulock and Robert S. Vrooman, the former counterintelligence chief at Los Alamos, as to whether Lee had been the victim of racial profiling. The government last month accepted a plea from Lee and agreed to drop the 58 other counts it had originally brought against Lee after he promised to fully cooperate with government prosecutors and provide a detailed description of why he downloaded the classified nuclear material and what he did with the tapes he made. Lee was held in solitary confinement at the behest of government prosecutors, spurring an apology from a federal judge in Albuquerque and triggering controversy about the way in which he was incarcerated and prosecuted. At yesterday's hearing, a nuclear scientist who played a critical role in attacking the government case admitted that he "erred" in testimony during a critical bail hearing for Lee in August when he gave the impression that 99 percent of the material Lee downloaded was unclassified. John L. Richter, ! who retired from Los Alamos several years ago but remains a lab consultant, told the senators that he considered only one of the three different computer categories that Lee downloaded to portable tapes to be 99 percent unclassified. The other two categories he said were classified and "should not be" made available to other nations. Richter said he agreed with Los Alamos deputy director Stephen Younger, who also testified, that information in the downloaded materials relating to plutonium and uranium are not found in open literature. Richter maintained, however, that more than just the downloaded tapes would have been needed to make sophisticated nuclear warheads such as the U.S. maintains. It requires, "a four-foot shelf of drawings, specifications, material processes and so forth . . . and that's not on the tapes." Throughout the hearing, Trulock clashed with Vrooman, who quoted from a Department of Energy document on the espionage case drafted by Trulock stating that "W! en Ho Lee appears to have the opportunity, means and motivation" to leak W-88 warhead secrets to China. "Based on my experience and observations, I concluded that racial profiling of Asian Americans as a result of the investigation indeed took place," Vrooman said. Trulock denied the charge, describing the document he produced on the case as "a records check as is performed in routine security reviews on a daily basis in Washington." He also charged that Vrooman was the person who first focused on Lee as a potential target. --part1_47.1a91427.270d0861_boundary-- From forens-owner Thu Oct 5 08:43:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01531 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01526 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:43:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Pam Scott ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:25:15 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Pam Scott ] >From forens-owner Wed Oct 4 18:25:14 2000 Received: from camelot.delm.tas.gov.au (camelot.delm.tas.gov.au [147.109.11.159]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24504 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [147.109.4.148] (t3ip148.delm.tas.gov.au [147.109.4.148]) by camelot.delm.tas.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27186 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:24:40 GMT X-Sender: pams@postoffice.delm.tas.gov.au Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:24:56 +1000 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Pam Scott Subject: Email messages I have recently been receiving a lot of email messages from forensics that I am sure are not intended to be sent to me. Could you check your addresses and if I have inadvertently found my way into the address book delete my email address. Any problems please call me on ext 2506. Regards Pam Scott __________________________________________________________________ Pam Scott, Senior Project Officer Resource Planning and Devlopment Commission GPO Box 2036, HOBART Tasmania 7001. Australia. Phone +61 0362 332 506 Mobile 0419 526 865 Fax +61 0362 335 400 From forens-owner Thu Oct 5 08:43:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01649 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01643 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:43:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Greenspan, Allen" ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 06:01:50 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Greenspan, Allen" ] >From forens-owner Thu Oct 5 06:01:49 2000 Received: from mail_svr.sheriff.org (mail.sheriff.org [205.152.254.140]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00286 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 06:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: From: "Greenspan, Allen" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Posting for a colleague Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 06:01:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The following is a posting for someone else in the lab, please direct all replies to her, thank you. 1) Does anyone know if the RN/WPL encyclopedias can a purchased at a discount through forensic suppliers? The below mentioned book is ~$340.00 from Amazon.com. 2) Also, would the 2000 include previous years or is it strictly for items made in 2000? 3) Can one buy the series or purchase compiled listings of previous years? I have no real experience with the book and only recently found out they exist. 4) Has anyone found them to be useful in casework? Rn & Wpl Encyclopedia 2000 : Registered Numbers & Wool Products Label Encyclopedia (RN and WPL Encyclopedia, 2000) by Robert Spencer (Editor) and Keith Cavedo Robin Gall robin_gall@sheriff.org Allen B. Greenspan Firearms & Toolmark Examiner Broward County Sheriff's Office 201 SE 6th St. North Wing 1799 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 (954) 831-5816 (954) 831-6413 Fax Allen_Greenspan@sheriff.org From forens-owner Thu Oct 5 16:16:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08385 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scn4.scn.org (scn4.scn.org [209.63.95.149]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08380 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scn.org (bi492@scn [209.63.95.146]) by scn4.scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10425 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bi492@localhost) by scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA02657; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200010052020.NAA02657@scn.org> From: bi492@scn.org (Chesterene Cwiklik) To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: New book by Inman and Rudin Reply-To: bi492@scn.org Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: New book by Inman and Rudin Dear Listmembers: Inman, Keith and Rudin, Norah. Principles and practice of criminalistics: the profession of forensic science". Boca Raton: CRC Press, 2000 More details are available at the web sites the authors posted in their pre-publication announcement: http://www.forensicdna.com/Bookstore/index.html http://forensicdna.com/Forensic.Bibliography.html http://forensicdna.com/Forensictimeline.htm Chesterene Cwiklik -- Cwiklik & Associates 2400 6th Avenue South #257 Seattle, WA 98134 (206)623-3637 FAX (206)623-4384 From forens-owner Thu Oct 5 23:45:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA12320 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12315 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d3e9y6 (pool-207-205-209-66.dnvr.grid.net [207.205.209.66]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16965 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801c02f35$66a2eea0$dbd0cdcf@d3e9y6> Reply-To: "Janel Smith" From: "Janel Smith" To: References: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE006FFF6@HBPDMAIL01> Subject: Database positions in CBI Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:32:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk The Colorado Bureau of Investigation is accepting applications for DNA database positions. The application is attached below. For additional information, please contact Kathy Dressel, technical leader, at 303-239-4303. For application and further instructions on the application process, please Carol Pritchard at 303-239-4426. ====================================== STATE OF COLORADO DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OPEN COMPETITIVE *RESIDENCY WAIVER HAS BEEN APPROVED* OUT OF STATE APPLICANT MAY APPLY TITLE: CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR I DNA EXAMINER I CLASS: A2A2TX POSITION NUMBER: MONTHLY SALARY: $3720 TO $5059 YEARLY SALARY: $44,640 TO $60,708 LOCATION: COLORADO BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION ***** 2 POSITION ARE IN MONTROSE, COLORADO ***** 1 POSITION IS IN PUEBLO, COLORADO DUTIES: The Colorado Bureau of Investigation is seeking a DNA Examiner in the Forensic Laboratory. This person will be responsible for analyzing blood samples submitted in connection with the DNA Database program. EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE: Graduation from an accredited college or university with a bachelor's degree in criminalistics, chemistry, biology, physics or a field related to the work assignment and ONE YEAR of DNA typing experience utilizing ABI 310 or ABI 377 technology. Applicants with forensic laboratory experience are preferred. Must be willing to locate in Montrose or Pueblo. SUBSTITUTIONS: Applicant's work experience which provided the same kind, amount and level of knowledge acquired in the required education may be substituted for the education requirement on a year for year basis. HOW TO APPLY: Submit a State of Colorado Employment Application FORM B PLUS A RESUME to: COLORADO DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY HUMAN RESOURCE SERVICES SECTION 700 KIPLING, SUITE 1300 LAKEWOOD, CO 80215 APPLICATION AND RESUME MAY BE FAXED TO 303-239-4509. PLEASE MAIL THE ORIGINALS TO THE ABOVE ADDRESS. ANNOUNCEMENT: PS-00-82 RELEASED: SEPTEMBER 22, 2000 APPLY BY: NOVEMBER 6, 2000 APPLICATION AND RESUME MUST BE RECEIVED NO LATER THAN 5:00 P.M., NOVEMBER 6, 2000 From forens-owner Fri Oct 6 13:42:47 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20521 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:42:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exchange1.state.id.us (exchange1.dle.state.id.us [164.165.39.254]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20516 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:42:41 -0400 (EDT) From: dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us Received: by exchange1.dle.state.id.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4GQKMT5H>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:43:08 -0600 Message-ID: To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Autoglass Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:42:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk The question is, what will automotive glass look like under a microscope with crossed polars? A recent automotive talk show indicated that, due to the manufacturing process, it would look different through polarizing sunglasses than regular window glass. From forens-owner Fri Oct 6 19:10:47 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25065 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wsp-dc-exch1.wsp.wa.gov ([167.72.128.51]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25060 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:10:42 -0400 (EDT) From: hgriffi@wsp.wa.gov Message-Id: <200010062310.TAA25060@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu> Received: by wsp-dc-exch1.wsp.wa.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4MV4CN6L>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:13:24 -0700 To: dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Autoglass Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:53:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I've never read about this and never seen it in casework glass. However, I've never looked at the full thickness of window glass under crossed polars, only fragments. Since the front windshield glass consists of two thin sheets of glass with plastic between, you might see the anisotropic colors in the plastic through the glass if you looked at the whole thickness. I've never tried it. I'll be interested in what other people say. WRT the side and back windows, they are tempered glass. This glass has special stresses built into it, so I cannot swear you wouldn't see any effect under crossed polars, but you don't in the fragments you get when it breaks. Helen Griffin ---------- From: dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Autoglass Date: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:42AM The question is, what will automotive glass look like under a microscope with crossed polars? A recent automotive talk show indicated that, due to the manufacturing process, it would look different through polarizing sunglasses than regular window glass. From forens-owner Fri Oct 6 20:52:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25973 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25968 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alachap (ppp-32-180.mtl.aei.ca [216.221.32.180]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA29736 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301c02fa1$b093f2e0$b420ddd8@alachap> From: "Alain Lachapelle" To: Subject: Student project on bloodstain pattern analysis Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:28:24 -0400 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C02F80.2864FC00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C02F80.2864FC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am currently coaching a student (17-18 years old) team who has chosen = bloodstain pattern analysis for their end-term project (10 weeks of 4 = hrs/week labs). They are very excited about it and chose this topic = after reading the Saferstein from cover to cover ! =20 The problem is that they want to build a little dummy, a machine to = deliver hits with chosen angles and velocities, and use a liquid that = has about the same viscosity as blood, but are a little desperate after = some litteraure research. They know that the books "Bloodstain Pattern = Analysis" (Bevel and Gardner) and Interpretation of bloodstain evidence = at crime scene" (Eckert and James) exist, but don't know if it's a good = move to buy them (they are pretty expensive !). Knowing what they want = to do, would you suggest to buy ? If yes, which one ? Or are there more = relevent references for what they want to do ? Thank you in advance for your kind help, Alain Lachapelle Chemistry teacher and enriched science program coordinator Colll=E8ge Andr=E9-Grasset Montreal, Quebec, Canada ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C02F80.2864FC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am currently coaching a student (17-18 years old) = team who=20 has chosen bloodstain pattern analysis for their end-term project (10 = weeks of 4=20 hrs/week labs). They are very excited about it and chose this topic = after=20 reading the Saferstein from cover to cover ! 
 
The problem is that they want to build a little dummy, a machine to = deliver=20 hits with chosen angles and velocities, and use a liquid that has about = the same=20 viscosity as blood, but are a little desperate after some litteraure=20 research.  They know that the books "Bloodstain Pattern Analysis" = (Bevel=20 and Gardner) and Interpretation of bloodstain evidence at crime scene" = (Eckert=20 and James) exist, but don't know if it's a good move to buy them (they = are=20 pretty expensive !).  Knowing what they want to do, would you = suggest to=20 buy ? If yes, which one ?  Or are there more relevent references = for what=20 they want to do ?
 
Thank you in advance for your kind help,
 
Alain Lachapelle
Chemistry teacher and enriched science program coordinator
Colll=E8ge Andr=E9-Grasset
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C02F80.2864FC00-- From forens-owner Fri Oct 6 22:18:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26687 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 22:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from delta.rollanet.org (qmailr@delta.rollanet.org [208.18.12.6]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA26682 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 22:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27868 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2000 02:18:09 -0000 Received: from access-6-28.rollanet.org (HELO dwhause) (192.55.114.195) by mx-old.rollanet.org with SMTP; 7 Oct 2000 02:18:09 -0000 Message-ID: <016001c03004$d01651e0$5a0d12d0@dwhause> From: "Dave Hause" To: "Alain Lachapelle" , References: <001301c02fa1$b093f2e0$b420ddd8@alachap> Subject: Re: Student project on bloodstain pattern analysis Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:17:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I have Eckert but admit to not having actually read it. Why not use both? Student A asks the college library to get her Eckert on an interlibrary loan for (maybe 4 weeks) and student B asks for Bevel. Three weeks later, students C & D ask the city library to get them the same texts on the same basis. During which time, the whole team has read each. Dave Hause ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alain Lachapelle" To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 9:28 AM Subject: Student project on bloodstain pattern analysis I am currently coaching a student (17-18 years old) team who has chosen bloodstain pattern analysis for their end-term project (10 weeks of 4 hrs/week labs). They are very excited about it and chose this topic after reading the Saferstein from cover to cover ! The problem is that they want to build a little dummy, a machine to deliver hits with chosen angles and velocities, and use a liquid that has about the same viscosity as blood, but are a little desperate after some litteraure research. They know that the books "Bloodstain Pattern Analysis" (Bevel and Gardner) and Interpretation of bloodstain evidence at crime scene" (Eckert and James) exist, but don't know if it's a good move to buy them (they are pretty expensive !). Knowing what they want to do, would you suggest to buy ? If yes, which one ? Or are there more relevent references for what they want to do ? Thank you in advance for your kind help, Alain Lachapelle Chemistry teacher and enriched science program coordinator Colllège André-Grasset Montreal, Quebec, Canada From forens-owner Sat Oct 7 12:36:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03856 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03850 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:36:08 -0400 (EDT) From: CSumme3726@aol.com Received: from CSumme3726@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.26.) id y.55.bc9f1d7 (4012) for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <55.bc9f1d7.2710aad6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:35:34 EDT Subject: No Subject To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello fellow forensic scientists, Our laboratory is thinking about using QIAgen extraction kits on a semi-routine basis. We was wondering, does anybody have a diffferential extraction protocol using a QIAgen extraction kit? Thanks in advance, Chad V. Summerfield, MSFS Philadelphia Police DNA Identification Laboratory From forens-owner Sat Oct 7 12:39:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03990 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r18.mail.aol.com (imo-r18.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.72]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03985 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:39:16 -0400 (EDT) From: CSumme3726@aol.com Received: from CSumme3726@aol.com by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.26.) id y.7d.b4988c3 (4012) for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7d.b4988c3.2710ab84@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:38:28 EDT Subject: QIAgen differential extraction? To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello fellow forensic scientists, Our laboratory is thinking about using QIAgen extraction kits on a semi-routine basis. We was wondering, does anybody have a diffferential extraction protocol using a QIAgen extraction kit? Thanks in advance, Chad V. Summerfield, MSFS Philadelphia Police DNA Identification Laboratory From forens-owner Sat Oct 7 18:59:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07173 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com [24.64.2.49]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07168 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.68.162.10]) by mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20001007225936.BKTY3170.mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:59:36 -0700 Message-ID: <39DFA9FB.2AF34242@home.com> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 16:55:55 -0600 From: "J. DEAK" Organization: @Home Network Member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Autoglass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Good day all - Interesting question Dave. I believe that the auto talk show was describing a macroscopic attribute of tempered glass. Through polaroid lenses, one is essentially able to observe the location of the air jets (relative to the glass surface) that were used to rapidly cool the glass in the tempering process. These air jets are regularly placed. The cooling effect on the glass is going to be greatest immediately adjacent to the air jet. The result is a repeating series of interconnected circular dark areas on the surface of the glass that are seen with polarized sunglasses. I believe that these represent very slight changes in density (and therefore, refractive index) across these areas. These surface effects are too subtle to be visualized under a PLM. Having said that, if one takes a cube of broken tempered glass and looks at the broken edge, a translucent "milky" band can be seen running through the centre of the glass, equidistant between the two finished surfaces. This is essentially a visual manifestation of the competing compression-tension forces in tempered glass. If you set up a cube of this glass standing on the broken edge in the field of view under crossed polars (at the lowest possible magnification) one can visualize the interference pattern resulting from the change in density (and RI) from the outer surfaces to the centre of the glass. (This is a nice demonstration for glass understudies so that they can see and comprehend the subtle variations in RI through the thickness of the glass. The not so subtle interference colours at the two surfaces of the glass are also good indicators that there are significant differences between the refractive index at the very surface of the glass versus the "bulk" of the glass.) As Helen (Hi Helen) pointed out in her response, this applies only to the side and rear windows of modern vehicles. The front, laminated windows are made from two sheets of well annealed float glass, that will not exhibit the same characteristics under polarized light. Hope that this helps. Regards, Joe Deak dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us wrote: > > The question is, what will automotive glass look like under a microscope > with crossed polars? A recent automotive talk show indicated that, due to > the manufacturing process, it would look different through polarizing > sunglasses than regular window glass. From forens-owner Sat Oct 7 20:25:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07886 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c008.sfo.cp.net (c008-h013.c008.sfo.cp.net [209.228.14.202]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA07881 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (cpmta 25841 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2000 17:24:36 -0700 Received: from c846529-a.saltlk1.ut.home.com (HELO C846529A) (24.20.96.27) by smtp.surfree.com (209.228.14.202) with SMTP; 7 Oct 2000 17:24:36 -0700 X-Sent: 8 Oct 2000 00:24:36 GMT Message-ID: <001301c030be$e5739290$1b601418@C846529A> From: "Hobbit" To: Subject: Speed detection Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:30:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Can anyone tell me what four-part foundation must be established to receive scientific speed detection as evidence in criminal trial? From forens-owner Sat Oct 7 21:00:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08339 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kscxchg2.esr.cri.nz (gatekeeper.esr.cri.nz [203.97.15.33]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08334 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200010080100.VAA08334@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu> Received: from gatekeeper.esr.cri.nz (202.50.148.6 [202.50.148.6]) by kscxchg2.esr.cri.nz with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 415RYFGP; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:05:04 +1300 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:03:00 +1300 From: "Buckleton, John" Subject: FW: Autoglass To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk The identification of glass as 'toughened" (tempered in US usage) by polarized light microscopy has been reported for fragments measuring more than 20 mm3 [Sanger, 1973 #561]. Sanger concluded that correctly mounted and lit fragments exhibiting brightness, if not colors, must be toughened. Small fragments not exhibiting brightness may still be toughened but below the size required to produce the effect. The authors are unaware of any laboratory using this method, as promising as it is. With the small fragments typical of glass recovered from clothing these observations cannot be made and for fragments of this size annealing has become the method of choice. John Buckleton from The forensic interpretation of glass evidence. 2000 Curran JM, Hicks T and Buckleton JS. CRC Press, FL, USA ESR Private Bag 92021 Auckland New Zealand (64)(9) 8153904 Fax (64)(9) 8496-046 john.buckleton@esr.cri.nz http://www.esr.cri.nz/ ---------- From: dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us[SMTP:dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us] Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 6:42 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Autoglass The question is, what will automotive glass look like under a microscope with crossed polars? A recent automotive talk show indicated that, due to the manufacturing process, it would look different through polarizing sunglasses than regular window glass. From forens-owner Sun Oct 8 11:06:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14922 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (ha1.rdc2.mi.home.com [24.2.68.68]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14908 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c777340a ([24.22.204.87]) by mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20001008150559.FOSG25434.mail.rdc2.mi.home.com@c777340a> for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 08:05:59 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01c03139$40e329e0$57cc1618@grapid1.mi.home.com> From: "Daryl W. Clemens" To: References: <001301c02fa1$b093f2e0$b420ddd8@alachap> Subject: Re: Student project on bloodstain pattern analysis Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:05:52 -0400 Organization: Crime and Clues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Of the two texts you mentions, Bevel and Gardner's is currently considered by many people to be the best. Eckert and James is also good, although I think Bevel and Gardener do a better job explaining the basics (personal opinion only). Getting one or both through interlibrary loan would be an excellent idea. Another text you might consider is: Experiments and Practical Exercises in Bloodstain Pattern Analysis, by Terry Laber and Barton Epstein. This spiral bound manual covers the basic experiments in bloodstain pattern analysis which are taught at BPA courses. It covers necessary equipment, how to set up the experiments, and worksheets for recording the results. It is available through the Midwestern Association of Forensic Scientists. Contact the authors at: Minnesota BCA Forensic Science Laboratory 1246 University Avenue St. Paul MN, 55104 For a blood substitute, red calligraphers ink works just fine. Regards, Daryl W. Clemens Editor, Crime & Clues PMB 163 3923 28th St. SE Grand Rapids, MI, 49512 http://crimeandclues.com Primary e-mail: dclemens@crimeandclues.com Secondary e-mail/MSN Messenger: identtec@hotmail.com Fax/Voice Mail: 1-877-283-8519 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alain Lachapelle" To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:28 AM Subject: Student project on bloodstain pattern analysis I am currently coaching a student (17-18 years old) team who has chosen bloodstain pattern analysis for their end-term project (10 weeks of 4 hrs/week labs). They are very excited about it and chose this topic after reading the Saferstein from cover to cover ! The problem is that they want to build a little dummy, a machine to deliver hits with chosen angles and velocities, and use a liquid that has about the same viscosity as blood, but are a little desperate after some litteraure research. They know that the books "Bloodstain Pattern Analysis" (Bevel and Gardner) and Interpretation of bloodstain evidence at crime scene" (Eckert and James) exist, but don't know if it's a good move to buy them (they are pretty expensive !). Knowing what they want to do, would you suggest to buy ? If yes, which one ? Or are there more relevent references for what they want to do ? Thank you in advance for your kind help, Alain Lachapelle Chemistry teacher and enriched science program coordinator Colllège André-Grasset Montreal, Quebec, Canada From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 03:03:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA22720 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 03:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scn4.scn.org (scn4.scn.org [209.63.95.149]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22715 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 03:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scn.org (bi492@scn [209.63.95.146]) by scn4.scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA10950 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bi492@localhost) by scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA09960; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 00:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 00:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200010090707.AAA09960@scn.org> From: bi492@scn.org (Chesterene Cwiklik) To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Auto glass Reply-To: bi492@scn.org Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Regarding the observation of brightness in glass fragments under crossed polars: how do you distinguish fragments of tempered/toughened glass from glass fragments with optical anisotropy due to other causes? I can think of several reasons why a fragment that large (2 cm cubed) might exhibit optical anisotropy, including refractive index gradients produced by pressure or other temperature effects, or composition gradients. Also, asymmetrically shaped or unequally distributed inhomogeneities of a different refractive index than the matrix may result in anisotropy even if the matrix itself is fairly homogeneous. BTW, anisotropy is a different response or degree of response to a force when the force is applied to an object from different directions. Example: splitting a log along its length vs. chopping it across its circumference (as in chopping a tree). I have observed optical anisotropy in quite small fragments of glass (one does have to optimize the conditions of observation). Chesterene Cwiklik -- Cwiklik & Associates 2400 6th Avenue South #257 Seattle, WA 98134 (206)623-3637 FAX (206)623-4384 From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 03:26:40 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23004 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 03:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mr.just.fgov.be (mr.just.fgov.be [194.7.188.123]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA22988 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 03:26:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sweeper.just.fgov.be [194.7.188.125] by mr.just.fgov.be with esmtp id 13iZ9r-00051i-00; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:23:43 +0200 Received: from badbl00x.just.fgov.be (unverified) by sweeper.just.fgov.be (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:23:40 +0200 Received: from badbl00x.just.fgov.be (BADBL00X [192.32.2.109]) by badbl00x.just.fgov.be with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 4RJM84FR; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:26:23 +0200 Received: FROM badbl01x.just.fgov.be BY badbl00x.just.fgov.be ; Mon Oct 09 09:26:23 2000 +0200 Received: from badbl01x.just.fgov.be (BADBL01X [192.32.2.126]) by badbl01x.just.fgov.be with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id TW0KSKDY; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:23:06 +0200 Received: FROM just.fgov.be BY badbl01x.just.fgov.be ; Mon Oct 09 09:23:04 2000 +0200 Message-Id: <39E174B0.1C90A820@just.fgov.be> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:33:04 +0200 From: "Van Renterghem, Pierre" Organization: National Institute of Criminalistics and Criminology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSumme3726@aol.com Cc: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: QIAgen differential extraction? References: <7d.b4988c3.2710ab84@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Chad, I have one reference for you: Greenspoon et al. (1998) J Forensic Sci. 43(5):1024-1030. That paper was about the QIAamp tissue kit, which is the former version of the QIAamp DNA mini kit. If you receive another protocol, would you please forward me the info ? Thanks Good luck. Pierre Pierre Van Renterghem, PhD National DNA Database Project Laboratory for Genetic Identification National Institute of Criminalistics and Criminology Belgium. CSumme3726@aol.com wrote: > Hello fellow forensic scientists, > > Our laboratory is thinking about using QIAgen extraction kits on a > semi-routine basis. We was wondering, does anybody have a diffferential > extraction protocol using a QIAgen extraction kit? > > Thanks in advance, > > Chad V. Summerfield, MSFS > Philadelphia Police DNA Identification Laboratory From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 11:58:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29978 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firewall.ircc.cc.fl.us (thor2.ircc.cc.fl.us [209.149.16.4]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA29973 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exch1.ircc.cc.fl.us by firewall.ircc.cc.fl.us via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 9 Oct 2000 15:58:06 UT Received: by exch1.ircc.cc.fl.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:46:27 -0400 Message-ID: From: Robert Parsons To: "'Rijeca@aol.com'" , forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: suggestions, please Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:46:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C03208.15CD5CE2" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03208.15CD5CE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Serena, Your 4.0 average already makes you stand out over 99% of the other applicants. :) To increase your edge, you could obtain a volunteer or unpaid internship position at a local crime lab. That may be difficult with your current obligations, but if you could pull it off (say, for just a few months a few evenings per week or on weekends) it would be a feather in your cap. If you have electives available in your current program, I recommend taking some statistics and instrumental analysis courses, if not already included. A few criminal justice classes (e.g., Rules of Evidence) wouldn't hurt either. Pay close attention to the graduate catalog and admissions requirements for the program you're interested in, and make sure you meet all the prerequisites, then look at what they seem to emphasize and pick some additional coursework in that area. If you have any research projects to do as part of your undergrad program, choose topics related to forensics for your projects - that will look great on your application. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Regional Crime Laboratory at Indian River Community College Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: Rijeca@aol.com [mailto:Rijeca@aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:41 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: suggestions, please Hello all, I am delurking once again to ask for suggestions from all list members. I am a biology (pre-med) undergraduate. I have a 4.0 grade point average and am a member of two biology clubs at my school. I am a full time student, a full time mother and a full time employee for a local retail chain. I plan to apply to a forensic science masters degree program upon graduation. The program I want to pursue takes only 16 students a year and as of now they have over 300 applications. I was wondering if anyone could give me some suggestions as to what I can do to make myself stand out above the hundred of applicants when I go to apply. Any suggestions you may have would be extremely helpful to me. Feel free to reply to me off list. Thank you Serena Grant Rijeca@aol.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03208.15CD5CE2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: suggestions, please

Serena,

Your 4.0 average already makes you stand out over 99% = of the other applicants. :)

To increase your edge, you could obtain a volunteer = or unpaid internship position at a local crime lab.  That may be = difficult with your current obligations, but if you could pull it off = (say, for just a few months a few evenings per week or on weekends) it = would be a feather in your cap.  If you have electives available = in your current program, I recommend taking some statistics and = instrumental analysis courses, if not already included.  A few = criminal justice classes (e.g., Rules of Evidence) wouldn't hurt = either.  Pay close attention to the graduate catalog and = admissions requirements for the program you're interested in, and make = sure you meet all the prerequisites, then look at what they seem to = emphasize and pick some additional coursework in that area.  If = you have any research projects to do as part of your undergrad program, = choose topics related to forensics for your projects - that will look = great on your application.

Bob Parsons, F-ABC
Forensic Chemist
Regional Crime Laboratory
at Indian River Community College
Ft. Pierce, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: Rijeca@aol.com [mailto:Rijeca@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:41 AM
To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu
Subject: suggestions, please


Hello all,

    I am delurking once again to ask = for suggestions from all list members. 
I am a biology (pre-med) undergraduate.  I have = a 4.0 grade point average and
am a member of two biology clubs at my school.  = I am a full time student, a
full time mother and a full time employee for a = local retail chain.  I plan
to apply to a forensic science masters degree = program upon graduation.  The
program I want to pursue takes only 16 students a = year and as of now they
have over 300 applications.  I was wondering if = anyone could give me some
suggestions as to what I can do to make myself stand = out above the hundred of
applicants when I go to apply.  Any suggestions = you may have would be
extremely helpful to me.  Feel free to reply to = me off list.

Thank you

Serena Grant
Rijeca@aol.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01C03208.15CD5CE2-- From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 12:08:25 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00336 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com [24.64.2.49]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00329 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.68.162.10]) by mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with ESMTP id <20001009160817.KDZF3170.mail2.rdc2.ab.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:08:17 -0700 Message-ID: <39E1EF32.1073B01F@home.com> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:15:46 -0600 From: "J. DEAK" Organization: @Home Network Member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Auto glass References: <200010090707.AAA09960@scn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk As John Buckleton pointed out, annealing of glass particles and determining the delta-ri is the only reliable way to differentiate tempered glass chips from well annealed glass. Some useful references on annealing: Locke, J., Winstanley, R., Rockett, L.A., Rydeard, C. A comparison of long and short schedules for the annealing of glass particles. Forens. Sci. Int. 1985; 29: 247-258 Locke, J., Sanger, D.G., Roopnarine, Gaytri. The identification of toughened glass by annealing. Forens. Sci. Int. 1982; 20: 295-301 Locke, J., Rockett, L.A. The application of annealing to improve the discrimination between glasses. Forens. Sci. Int. 1985; 29: 237-245 Cassista, A.R. and Sandercock, P.M.L. Effects of Annealing on Toughened and Non-Toughened Glass. Can. Soc. Forens. Sci. J. 1994; 27(3): 171-177 Edmonstone, G. The Identification of Heat Strengthened Glass in Windshields. Can. Soc. Forens. Sci. J. 1997; 30(4): 181-184 The comments made regarding the used of polarized light should not be interpreted as advocating its use as an analytical technique for differentiating tempered glass from well annealed glass... the purpose was merely an attempt to explain (particularly for the benefit of the younger members on the list) the reasons that tempered automotive windows have the "mottled" appearance when viewed through Polaroid sunglasses, as reported in the auto talk show. Similarly, the anisotropy observed in a full thickness cube of tempered glass (and if my email program would let me underline words, I'd underline "full thickness") is merely an interesting observation (of the density/refractive index gradient from the surface to the centre) and is useful for illustration purposes only. Regards, Joe Deak Chesterene Cwiklik wrote: > > Regarding the observation of brightness in glass fragments under crossed > polars: how do you distinguish fragments of tempered/toughened glass from > glass fragments with optical anisotropy due to other causes? > > I can think of several reasons why a fragment that large (2 cm cubed) > might exhibit optical anisotropy, including refractive index gradients > produced by pressure or other temperature effects, or composition > gradients. Also, asymmetrically shaped or unequally distributed > inhomogeneities of a different refractive index than the matrix may result > in anisotropy even if the matrix itself is fairly homogeneous. > > BTW, anisotropy is a different response or degree of response to a force > when the force is applied to an object from different directions. > Example: splitting a log along its length vs. chopping it across its > circumference (as in chopping a tree). > > I have observed optical anisotropy in quite small fragments of glass (one > does have to optimize the conditions of observation). > > Chesterene Cwiklik > > -- > Cwiklik & Associates > 2400 6th Avenue South #257 > Seattle, WA 98134 > (206)623-3637 FAX (206)623-4384 From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 17:17:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05155 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r08.mail.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.8]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05150 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:17:43 -0400 (EDT) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.26.) id y.50.bdf9561 (3924) for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50.bdf9561.27138fca@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:16:58 EDT Subject: No Subject To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 66 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id RAA05151 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk   Farwell Brain Fingerprinting: A New Paradigm in Criminal Investigations Executive Summary Farwell Brain Fingerprinting is a revolutionary new technology for solving crimes, with a record of 100% accuracy in research on FBI agents, research with US government agencies and other applications. The technology is proprietary and patented. Farwell Brain Fingerprinting has had extensive media coverage around the world. The technology fulfills an urgent need for government, law enforcement agencies, corporations, and individuals in a trillion-dollar worldwide market. The technology is fully developed and available for application in the field. Larry Farwell, PhD Former Harvard Faculty Member President & Chief Scientist Brain Wave Science Human Brain Research Laboratory, Inc. TV News Reports KTVO: Brain Fingerprinting Catches a Serial Killer CBS Evening News ABC World News CNN Headline News Ivanhoe Broadcast News CTV Canadian Network News Discovery Channel "The New Detectives"   Newspaper & Magazine Reports Fairfield Ledger: Farwell's Brain Fingerprinting Traps a Serial Killer Law and Order Magazine: Brain Fingerprinting: Latest Tool for Law EnforcementScientific Research & Reports J.B. Grinder case Serial killer caught Harrington case Man falsely convicted of murder is exonerated Brain Fingerprinting FBI Study Dr. Farwell's Curriculum Vitae and References   For more information or investor relations E-mail: Farwell@BrainWaveScience.com Tel: (641) 469-5649 Fax: (401) 735-5670 Brain Wave Science Human Brain Research Laboratory, Inc. P.O. Box 176 Fairfield, IA  52556, USA   This True Justice site owned by Lawrence Farwell, PhD. [ Previous 5 Sites | Skip Previous | Previous | Next | Skip Next | Next 5 Sites | Random Site | List Sites ] Click here for information on joining the "Crime Scene Investigation" Web Ring! This Crime Scene Investigation site is owned by Dr. Lawrence A. Farwell [Skip Prev] [Prev] [Next] [Skip Next] [Random] [Next 5] [List Sites]    From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 19:15:50 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06534 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fozzie.webservepro.com (root@fozzie.webservepro.com [205.160.44.70]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06529 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (204-246-241-140.nas2.APV.gblx.net [204.246.241.140]) by fozzie.webservepro.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA01379 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:15:35 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Elvis Terrier" To: Subject: Need a roommate for ACSR conference in Atlanta Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:13:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Conference of the Association for Crime Scene Reconstruction http://www.acsr.com/ConferenceInfo.htm Would like to share room cost. Reservation is made for Oct 26 - 28 at the Atlanta Airport Marriott. Catten Elvis@wolf-web.com From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 19:23:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06699 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fozzie.webservepro.com (root@fozzie.webservepro.com [205.160.44.70]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06694 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (204-246-241-140.nas2.APV.gblx.net [204.246.241.140]) by fozzie.webservepro.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA01994 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:23:22 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Elvis Terrier" To: Subject: RE: Body to Science Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:20:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000923122535.00aa3aa0@pop.nothingbutnet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk What about the Body Farm? Do they accept donations? Can anyone tell me its official name? (A search for "body farm" brings up many references to Cornwell's book.) From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 19:47:50 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07024 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arnie.systems.sa.gov.au (arnie.systems.sa.gov.au [203.26.120.3]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07019 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:47:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arnie.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arnie.systems.sa.gov.au OUTGOING (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08850 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:14 +0930 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb002.saugov.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb002.saugov.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.12]) by arnie.systems.sa.gov.au INCOMING (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08843 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:14 +0930 (CST)' Received: by SAGEMSBB002.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QGF9G2A>; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:13 +0930 Message-ID: <833BFC64AC56D21190F00008C71E395406F1219D@SAGEMSG0002.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au> From: "Donnelly, Andrew (FORENSIC)" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Body to Science Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:11 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk University of Tennessee, Knoxville Anthropological Reseach Facility Donations apparently accepted. Science Vol 289 p855, 2000 Cheers, Andrew Donnelly Forensic Science Centre Adelaide, South Australia > -----Original Message----- > From: Elvis Terrier [SMTP:Elvis@wOLf-weB.cOm] > Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2000 8:51 > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: Body to Science > > What about the Body Farm? Do they accept donations? > > Can anyone tell me its official name? (A search for "body farm" brings up > many references to Cornwell's book.) > > From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 20:22:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07407 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f178.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.178]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07402 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:21:29 -0700 Received: from 4.54.201.143 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:21:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.54.201.143] From: "Kelly Esslinger" To: Elvis@wOLf-weB.cOm, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Body to Science Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:21:29 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2000 00:21:29.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[08DFEFC0:01C03250] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk It's in Tennessee (through a University there I think), and there's a waiting list, believe it or not, to donate your body to the "farm". Kelly >From: "Elvis Terrier" >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: RE: Body to Science >Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:20:53 -0500 > >What about the Body Farm? Do they accept donations? > >Can anyone tell me its official name? (A search for "body farm" brings up >many references to Cornwell's book.) > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 20:38:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07639 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.ufl.edu (sp28fe.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.128.108]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07634 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from falsett (ppp-s127-n33-as3.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.127.33]) by smtp.ufl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/2.2.1) with SMTP id UAA253566; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:38:22 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c03254$66ac8d80$217fe380@falsett> From: "Dr. Anthony B. Falsetti" To: "Kelly Esslinger" , , Subject: Re: Body to Science Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:52:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk It is, The University of Tennessee - Knoxville, TN. Please contact Dr. Lee Meadows Jantz Department of Anthropology 865/974-4408 Anthony B. Falsetti, Ph.D., D-ABFA Director & Associate Professor C.A. Pound Human Identification Laboratory P.O. Box 112545 The University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611 VOICE (352) 392-6772 FAX (352) 392-2071 e-mail: falsetti@ufl.edu -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Esslinger To: Elvis@wOLf-weB.cOm ; forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Date: Monday, October 09, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: RE: Body to Science > >It's in Tennessee (through a University there I think), and there's a >waiting list, believe it or not, to donate your body to the "farm". > >Kelly > >>From: "Elvis Terrier" >>Reply-To: >>To: >>Subject: RE: Body to Science >>Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:20:53 -0500 >> >>What about the Body Farm? Do they accept donations? >> >>Can anyone tell me its official name? (A search for "body farm" brings up >>many references to Cornwell's book.) >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 22:09:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08786 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.i2020.net (mail.i2020.net [204.77.129.19]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08781 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from i2020.net ([204.232.1.48]) by mail.i2020.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 153-54218U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:08:27 -0400 Message-ID: <39E27997.34766ED7@i2020.net> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:06:15 -0400 From: Sheila Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens-l Subject: Firearms Identification Question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I received the following message from a law intern who is working on a real-life criminal defense and needs more information on firearms identification. Hopefully some of the folks who helped solve my "Bullets Over Richmond" dilemma three years ago are still on the list and can provide feedback for this young man. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Firearms Identification Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:33:28 EDT From: RPHENS@aol.com To: truthinjustice@netzero.net I am not sure if I know very much about this but here goes with the information: A single gunshot to the head with a .22 caliber bullet. The fragments removed from the skull were in two separate pieces. The bullet matched a barrel found at the crime scene belonging to a .22 caliber US Henry Arms Survival Rifle. That is all of the information that I have at this point however, I can obtain more. The question that I have is whether or not the toolmarking that identified this bullet to this barrel is accurate, and if not is there somebody with qualifications that can testify to this? If more information is needed please let me know. RP Henson -- Sheila Martin Berry E-mail: dberry@i2020.net Web Sites: http://spiritlink.com/ http://truthinjustice.org/ "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein From forens-owner Mon Oct 9 22:55:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09291 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from delta.rollanet.org (qmailr@delta.rollanet.org [208.18.12.6]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA09286 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:55:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14435 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2000 02:55:40 -0000 Received: from access-6-2.rollanet.org (HELO dwhause) (192.55.114.169) by mx-old.rollanet.org with SMTP; 10 Oct 2000 02:55:40 -0000 Message-ID: <058b01c03265$84ea30c0$d17237c0@dwhause> From: "Dave Hause" To: "forens-l" Cc: References: <39E27997.34766ED7@i2020.net> Subject: Re: Firearms Identification Question Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:55:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I think the rifle described is what began as the Armalite AR-7, then sold to Charter Arms, then to Henry -- standard recoil actuated .22 semi automatic rifle, but the barrel and action are easily removable and store in the stock. But this is probably irrelevant, as I see the question being more 'where can I get a second opinion' after one firearm & toolmark examiner's tests said essentially 'this bullet came from the barrel of this rifle, to the exclusion of all others.' I suggest the correspondent start with the AFTE Web site, http://www.afte.org. Dave Hause ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Berry" To: "forens-l" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:06 PM Subject: Firearms Identification Question I received the following message from a law intern who is working on a real-life criminal defense and needs more information on firearms identification. Hopefully some of the folks who helped solve my "Bullets Over Richmond" dilemma three years ago are still on the list and can provide feedback for this young man. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Firearms Identification Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:33:28 EDT From: RPHENS@aol.com To: truthinjustice@netzero.net I am not sure if I know very much about this but here goes with the information: A single gunshot to the head with a .22 caliber bullet. The fragments removed from the skull were in two separate pieces. The bullet matched a barrel found at the crime scene belonging to a .22 caliber US Henry Arms Survival Rifle. That is all of the information that I have at this point however, I can obtain more. The question that I have is whether or not the toolmarking that identified this bullet to this barrel is accurate, and if not is there somebody with qualifications that can testify to this? If more information is needed please let me know. RP Henson -- Sheila Martin Berry E-mail: dberry@i2020.net Web Sites: http://spiritlink.com/ http://truthinjustice.org/ "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 12:14:52 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17713 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [64.240.232.234] ([64.240.232.234]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA17708 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hbpdmail01.surfcity-hb.org by [64.240.232.234] via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 10 Oct 2000 16:14:18 UT Received: by HBPDMAIL01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE047F0F5@HBPDMAIL01> From: "Thompson, Jeff" To: "'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group'" Subject: Steraloids Catalogue (http://www.steraloids.com/products/A/A228.h tml) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C032D5.92921466" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C032D5.92921466 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" These folks have it. http://www.steraloids.com/products/A/A228.html Jeff Thompson, F-ABC Supervising Criminalist Scientific Investigation Unit Huntington Beach Police Dept. Huntington Beach, CA (USA) <> ------_=_NextPart_000_01C032D5.92921466 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Steraloids Catalogue.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Steraloids Catalogue.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.steraloids.com/products/A/A228.html Modified=80C06CB5D532C00129 ------_=_NextPart_000_01C032D5.92921466-- From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 12:18:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17924 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17919 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:18:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] >From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 10:52:48 2000 Received: from state.wy.us (missc.state.wy.us [159.238.6.2]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16586 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from incdomain-Message_Server by state.wy.us with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:34 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.4 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:14 -0600 From: "Tilton V. Davis" To: Subject: DNA analysis of syringes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id KAA16587 We are looking at developing an analysis scheme for syringes including needles found at crime scenes. I am interested in hearing about protocols, legal issues, and comments about pursuing this type of analysis. Thanks in advance. Tilton Davis Wyoming State Crime Laboratory From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 12:41:17 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18359 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [64.240.232.234] ([64.240.232.234]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18354 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hbpdmail01.surfcity-hb.org by [64.240.232.234] via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 10 Oct 2000 16:40:44 UT Received: by HBPDMAIL01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:43:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE047F0F7@HBPDMAIL01> From: "Thompson, Jeff" To: "'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group'" Subject: FW: Steraloids Catalogue (http://www.steraloids.com/products/A/A2 28.h tml) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:43:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C032D9.445B4CA0" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C032D9.445B4CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry, folks. Please disregard the below info (I clicked on the wrong discussion group). Jeff Thompson - HBPD/SIU -----Original Message----- From: Thompson, Jeff [mailto:thompsoj@HBPD.org] Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:17 AM To: 'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group' Subject: Steraloids Catalogue (http://www.steraloids.com/products/A/A228.h tml) These folks have it. http://www.steraloids.com/products/A/A228.html Jeff Thompson, F-ABC Supervising Criminalist Scientific Investigation Unit Huntington Beach Police Dept. Huntington Beach, CA (USA) <> ------_=_NextPart_000_01C032D9.445B4CA0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Steraloids Catalogue.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Steraloids Catalogue.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.steraloids.com/products/A/A228.html Modified=80C06CB5D532C00129 ------_=_NextPart_000_01C032D9.445B4CA0-- From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 12:41:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18457 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fsunotes1.ferris.edu (fsunotes1.ferris.edu [161.57.3.3]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18391 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:41:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu Subject: GHB info. thank you! To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:36:02 -0400 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on FSUNOTES1/FSU(Release 5.0.4a |July 24, 2000) at 10/10/2000 12:36:24 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Dear friends, Thank you for all the information on GHB. I will pass it on to the person who asked and use it myself in teaching my forensic science classes. You're the best! Mary Bacon Ferris State University From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 13:20:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19139 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:20:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw-1.co.ventura.ca.us (fw-1.co.ventura.ca.us [157.145.214.227]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19130 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw-1.co.ventura.ca.us (root@localhost) by fw-1.co.ventura.ca.us with ESMTP id KAA27842 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nts-wss.co.ventura.ca.us (nts-wss.co.ventura.ca.us [157.145.216.6]) by fw-1.co.ventura.ca.us with SMTP id KAA27824 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 157.145.4.101 by nts-wss.co.ventura.ca.us with SMTP ( WorldSecure Server SMTP Relay(WSS) v4.5); Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:20:53 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 429e4873-afee-11d2-bbc3-000083642dfe Received: from GWIADOM-Message_Server by gwia.co.ventura.ca.us with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:19:59 -0700 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:19:44 -0700 From: "James Roberts" To: dberry@i2020.net, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Firearms Identification Question MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 15FD907F1598962-01-02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id NAA19131 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Numerous studies have been carried out to test the hypothesis (that toolmark identification is specific to a single tool or gun barrel) and each has concluded that those that are properly trained in firearm and toolmark examination can correctly differentiate which source generated the mark. The most recent of these that I'm aware of was done by Dave Brundage. Work was done about 92-94, I'm looking for the article for another bit of work I'm doing but don't have the sight at the moment I called Dave this morning and he said that it was in published in AFTE about 96, I haven't looked it up yet. It was a blind study involving 10 consecutively rifled Ruger barrels evaluated by multiple examiners for correct identification of the unknown bullets to the supplied test sets. This study is being redone with a much larger group at this time. The only way to really know if the work was done properly is to hire a qualified examiner to re-analyze the evidence. The Association of Firearm and Toolmark Examiners (AFTE) offers a list of Distinguished members that do private analysis. You could contact the President of the Association Bill Morris at e-mail AZMorris@AOL.Com (or from the AFTE web sight http://www.afte.org/). I don't know how current the list might be. James L. Roberts Firearm and Toolmark Examiner Ventura Co. Sheriff's Lab (805) 654-2308 James.Roberts@mail.co.ventura.ca.us >>> "Sheila Berry" 10/09/00 07:06PM >>> I received the following message from a law intern who is working on a real-life criminal defense and needs more information on firearms identification. Hopefully some of the folks who helped solve my "Bullets Over Richmond" dilemma three years ago are still on the list and can provide feedback for this young man. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Firearms Identification Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:33:28 EDT From: RPHENS@aol.com To: truthinjustice@netzero.net I am not sure if I know very much about this but here goes with the information: A single gunshot to the head with a .22 caliber bullet. The fragments removed from the skull were in two separate pieces. The bullet matched a barrel found at the crime scene belonging to a .22 caliber US Henry Arms Survival Rifle. That is all of the information that I have at this point however, I can obtain more. The question that I have is whether or not the toolmarking that identified this bullet to this barrel is accurate, and if not is there somebody with qualifications that can testify to this? If more information is needed please let me know. RP Henson -- Sheila Martin Berry E-mail: dberry@i2020.net Web Sites: http://spiritlink.com/ http://truthinjustice.org/ "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 14:26:17 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20368 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wsp-dc-exch1.wsp.wa.gov ([167.72.128.51]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20358; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:26:16 -0400 (EDT) From: hgriffi@wsp.wa.gov Message-Id: <200010101826.OAA20358@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu> Received: by wsp-dc-exch1.wsp.wa.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <44WTB2S5>; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:28:53 -0700 To: cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] (fwd) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:55:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Syringes with needles are handled using universal precautions - gloves minimum, face shield also a good idea, syringe picked up with forceps. The contents are emptied into a plastic vial. The syringe with the needle still attached is placed into a plastic container and disposed of with biohazard waste. If there are insufficient contents to empty into a vial the syringe with the needle still attached is disposed of. Needles are not supposed to ever be removed from the syringes. Syringes with needles are never accepted into the lab. This is my understanding of our protocol. Helen Griffin ---------- From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] (fwd) Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:18AM ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] >From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 10:52:48 2000 Received: from state.wy.us (missc.state.wy.us [159.238.6.2]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16586 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from incdomain-Message_Server by state.wy.us with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:34 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.4 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:14 -0600 From: "Tilton V. Davis" To: Subject: DNA analysis of syringes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id KAA16587 We are looking at developing an analysis scheme for syringes including needles found at crime scenes. I am interested in hearing about protocols, legal issues, and comments about pursuing this type of analysis. Thanks in advance. Tilton Davis Wyoming State Crime Laboratory From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 14:28:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20514 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20509 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:28:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:55:00 -0700 From: hgriffi@wsp.wa.gov To: cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] (fwd) Syringes with needles are handled using universal precautions - gloves minimum, face shield also a good idea, syringe picked up with forceps. The contents are emptied into a plastic vial. The syringe with the needle still attached is placed into a plastic container and disposed of with biohazard waste. If there are insufficient contents to empty into a vial the syringe with the needle still attached is disposed of. Needles are not supposed to ever be removed from the syringes. Syringes with needles are never accepted into the lab. This is my understanding of our protocol. Helen Griffin ---------- From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] (fwd) Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:18AM ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] >From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 10:52:48 2000 Received: from state.wy.us (missc.state.wy.us [159.238.6.2]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16586 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from incdomain-Message_Server by state.wy.us with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:34 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.4 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:14 -0600 From: "Tilton V. Davis" To: Subject: DNA analysis of syringes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id KAA16587 We are looking at developing an analysis scheme for syringes including needles found at crime scenes. I am interested in hearing about protocols, legal issues, and comments about pursuing this type of analysis. Thanks in advance. Tilton Davis Wyoming State Crime Laboratory From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 16:35:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21910 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from services.state.mo.us (services.state.mo.us [168.166.2.67]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21905 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.state.mo.us ([168.166.193.208]) by services.state.mo.us (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e9AKZts29408 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:35:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <39E37D3B.E02CCF62@mail.state.mo.us> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:34:03 -0500 From: Jenny Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "forens@statgen.ncsu.edu" Subject: explosive Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I have a question regarding military simulators of the M-80, M-160 etc. series. Does anyone know of good references with descriptions of these different designations?? These designations are given to low explosive devices of varying size and powder weights. They are always silver or red cardboard cylinders, packed with flash powder and have a green safety fuse. At an explosive workshop we were given a handout describing the size and weights of the different designations, i.e, and M-80 cylinder is typically 1 3/4" X 11/16" and has about 3 gms of flashpowder. The M-160 typicaly measures 3" X 11/16" and has about 5.2 gms of flashpowder, and so on. The handout I have has no references listed. Our fire marshall's office routinely sends these types of devices in for weight and powder ID but they often give them different names. (And they don't have a real reference either!). Thanks for any help you may offer. Jenny From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 17:18:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA22346 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firewall.ircc.cc.fl.us (thor2.ircc.cc.fl.us [209.149.16.4]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22341 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exch1.ircc.cc.fl.us by firewall.ircc.cc.fl.us via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 10 Oct 2000 21:18:18 UT Received: by exch1.ircc.cc.fl.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <44L4YMSY>; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:06:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: Robert Parsons To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: syringe analysis Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:06:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C032FD.F91A77F0" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C032FD.F91A77F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" We accept needles and syringes for analysis, provided they are properly packaged in puncture-proof containers. In some cases, they are the only evidence available, and to refuse to analyze them means dropping the charges. We feel that they can be safely handled using Universal Precautions. As Helen pointed out, gloves (and lab coat) should be worn and the syringe & needle handled as little as possible. If the syringe contains enough liquid to expel into a culture tube for analysis, that is ideal, but often it may contain only residues. In the latter instance we rinse the syringe with a suitable solvent by drawing the solvent through the needle into the syringe using the syringe's own plunger, then expelling it into a culture tube. Place the tube in a tube rack before expelling the syringe contents into it so there is no chance of "missing" and sticking yourself. Never handle the needle itself, and always keep it pointed away from you. If the needle is bent and must be straightened or removed to wash the syringe, this should be done only if absolutely necessary to support the case, and should be done using forceps only, never by hand - and the submitting agency should be read the riot act about not bending needles. The proper precaution they should use is to place the syringe in container designed to protect such evidence without exposing handlers to danger of needle stick (e.g., using a plastic syringe tube). Such containers usually have cork, foam, or other material at the bottom to "stick" the needle into, which protects both the needle and those handling the container. They are available from a variety of law enforcement supply vendors. After analysis, we properly repackage the syringe and seal the package with a caution against opening. Some judges will not admit the results of analysis without the physical evidence to show the jury, so disposing of the syringes as biohazardous waste in the lab is not an option for us (as a multi-jurisdictional lab serving many different agencies, it's not our evidence, so we can't destroy it without permission from the submitting agency anyway). Officers and attorneys should be cautioned of the hazard and advised against opening the package in court, which is another reason why transparent hard plastic syringe tubes are the ideal packaging medium. They allow the evidence to be handled and viewed in court and elsewhere safely. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Regional Crime Laboratory at Indian River Community College Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: hgriffi@wsp.wa.gov [mailto:hgriffi@wsp.wa.gov] Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:55 PM To: cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu; forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] (fwd) Syringes with needles are handled using universal precautions - gloves minimum, face shield also a good idea, syringe picked up with forceps. The contents are emptied into a plastic vial. The syringe with the needle still attached is placed into a plastic container and disposed of with biohazard waste. If there are insufficient contents to empty into a vial the syringe with the needle still attached is disposed of. Needles are not supposed to ever be removed from the syringes. Syringes with needles are never accepted into the lab. This is my understanding of our protocol. Helen Griffin ---------- From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] (fwd) Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:18AM ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] >From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 10:52:48 2000 Received: from state.wy.us (missc.state.wy.us [159.238.6.2]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16586 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from incdomain-Message_Server by state.wy.us with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:34 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.4 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:14 -0600 From: "Tilton V. Davis" To: Subject: DNA analysis of syringes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id KAA16587 We are looking at developing an analysis scheme for syringes including needles found at crime scenes. I am interested in hearing about protocols, legal issues, and comments about pursuing this type of analysis. Thanks in advance. Tilton Davis Wyoming State Crime Laboratory ------_=_NextPart_001_01C032FD.F91A77F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: syringe analysis

We accept needles and syringes for analysis, provided = they are properly packaged in puncture-proof containers.  In some = cases, they are the only evidence available, and to refuse to analyze = them means dropping the charges.  We feel that they can be safely = handled using Universal Precautions.  As Helen pointed out, gloves = (and lab coat) should be worn and the syringe & needle handled as = little as possible.  If the syringe contains enough liquid to = expel into a culture tube for analysis, that is ideal, but often it may = contain only residues.  In the latter instance we rinse the = syringe with a suitable solvent by drawing the solvent through the = needle into the syringe using the syringe's own plunger, then expelling = it into a culture tube.  Place the tube in a tube rack before = expelling the syringe contents into it so there is no chance of = "missing" and sticking yourself.  Never handle the = needle itself, and always keep it pointed away from you.  If the = needle is bent and must be straightened or removed to wash the syringe, = this should be done only if absolutely necessary to support the case, = and should be done using forceps only, never by hand - and the = submitting agency should be read the riot act about not bending = needles.  The proper precaution they should use is to place the = syringe in container designed to protect such evidence without exposing = handlers to danger of needle stick (e.g., using a plastic syringe = tube).  Such containers usually have cork, foam, or other material = at the bottom to "stick" the needle into, which protects both = the needle and those handling the container.  They are available = from a variety of law enforcement supply vendors.

After analysis, we properly repackage the syringe and = seal the package with a caution against opening.  Some judges will = not admit the results of analysis without the physical evidence to show = the jury, so disposing of the syringes as biohazardous waste in the lab = is not an option for us (as a multi-jurisdictional lab serving many = different agencies, it's not our evidence, so we can't destroy it = without permission from the submitting agency anyway).  Officers = and attorneys should be cautioned of the hazard and advised against = opening the package in court, which is another reason why transparent = hard plastic syringe tubes are the ideal packaging medium.  They = allow the evidence to be handled and viewed in court and elsewhere = safely.

Bob Parsons, F-ABC
Forensic Chemist
Regional Crime Laboratory
at Indian River Community College
Ft. Pierce, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: hgriffi@wsp.wa.gov [mailto:hgriffi@wsp.wa.gov]=
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:55 PM
To: cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu; = forens@statgen.ncsu.edu
Subject: RE: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: = Non-member submission from
["Tilton V. Davis" = <TDAVIS@state.wy.us>] (fwd)


Syringes with needles are handled using universal = precautions - gloves
minimum, face shield also a good idea, syringe = picked up with forceps.  The
contents are emptied into a plastic vial.  The = syringe with the needle still
attached is placed into a plastic container and = disposed of with biohazard
waste.  If there are insufficient contents to = empty into a vial the syringe
with the needle still attached is disposed of.  = Needles are not supposed to
ever be removed from the syringes.  Syringes = with needles are never accepted
into the lab.  This is my understanding of our = protocol.  Helen Griffin
 ----------
From: Basten
To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu
Subject: BOUNCE = forens@statgen.ncsu.edu:    Non-member submission = from
["Tilton V. Davis" = <TDAVIS@state.wy.us>]    (fwd)
Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:18AM

 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu
To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu
Subject: BOUNCE = forens@statgen.ncsu.edu:    Non-member submission = from
["Tilton
    V. Davis" = <TDAVIS@state.wy.us>]

>From forens-owner  Tue Oct 10 10:52:48 = 2000
Received: from state.wy.us (missc.state.wy.us = [159.238.6.2])
        by = brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16586
        for = <forens@statgen.ncsu.edu>; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:47 -0400 = (EDT)
Received: from incdomain-Message_Server by = state.wy.us
        with = Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:34 -0600
Message-Id: <s9e2d8d2.035@state.wy.us>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.4
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:14 -0600
From: "Tilton V. Davis" = <TDAVIS@state.wy.us>
To: <forens@statgen.ncsu.edu>
Subject: DNA analysis of syringes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit = by
brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id KAA16587

We are looking at developing an analysis scheme for = syringes including
needles found at crime scenes.

I am interested in hearing about protocols, legal = issues, and comments about
pursuing this type of analysis.  Thanks in = advance.

Tilton Davis
Wyoming State Crime Laboratory

------_=_NextPart_001_01C032FD.F91A77F0-- From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 17:48:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA22680 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dasmthkhn463.amedd.army.mil (DASMTHKHN463.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL [204.208.124.133]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22675 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by DASMTHKHN463.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:41:21 -0500 Message-ID: <4E0277823564D411905E00A0C9EA331845C614@DASMTHGSH666.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL> From: "Hause, David W LTC GLWACH" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: explosive Q Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:47:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Recognition of Explosive and Incendiary Devices, Part I, Crockett & Newhouser, Int. Assoc. of Chiefs of Police, apparently based on a LEAA grant from 1970 but no copyright date, p 78 lists the filling in an M80 (1 9/16" x 11/16" dia) as 3 g of flash powder composed of potassium perchlorate, aluminum powder, sulfur, and antimony sulfide, but lists the casing as tan; M116A1 hand grenade simulator (3 3/4" x 1 5/8" dia) contains 1 1/4 oz of flash powder and is either natural cardboard colored or painted white. The M115A2 Artillery Ground Burst Simulator is 7 1/8" x 1 3/4" dia, but no charge weight is listed; this is also reported as either white or tan. But, FWIW, all the explosive simulators I've seen have been white. I think we have an EOD detachment here at Ft. Leonard Wood, who might be able to help, but I can't locate a phone number from the post's Web site. The general switchboard number is 573- 596-0131. Dave Hause -----Original Message----- From: Jenny Smith [mailto:jsmith5@mail.state.mo.us] Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: explosive Q I have a question regarding military simulators of the M-80, M-160 etc. series. Does anyone know of good references with descriptions of these different designations?? These designations are given to low explosive devices of varying size and powder weights. They are always silver or red cardboard cylinders, packed with flash powder and have a green safety fuse. At an explosive workshop we were given a handout describing the size and weights of the different designations, i.e, and M-80 cylinder is typically 1 3/4" X 11/16" and has about 3 gms of flashpowder. The M-160 typicaly measures 3" X 11/16" and has about 5.2 gms of flashpowder, and so on. The handout I have has no references listed. Our fire marshall's office routinely sends these types of devices in for weight and powder ID but they often give them different names. (And they don't have a real reference either!). Thanks for any help you may offer. Jenny From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 20:28:23 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24038 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [64.240.232.234] ([64.240.232.234]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA24033 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hbpdmail01.surfcity-hb.org by [64.240.232.234] via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 11 Oct 2000 00:27:48 UT Received: by HBPDMAIL01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:30:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE047F0F8@HBPDMAIL01> From: "Thompson, Jeff" To: "'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group'" Subject: RE: syringe analysis Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:30:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I would add only one thing to the current excellent tips -- NEVER recap the syringe, no matter how careful you are (of course, your fingers will not be anywhere near the needle if you are doing it right)! The plastic needle cover/cap that comes on insulin syringes is very thin & the needle can easily penetrate it if you get the needle out of alignment in the least (as one of our patrol officers found out). Jeff Thompson, F-ABC Supervising Criminalist Scientific Investigation Unit Huntington Beach Police Dept. Huntington Beach, CA (USA) From forens-owner Wed Oct 11 08:14:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00429 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00424 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:14:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["TiltonV. Davis" (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:10:59 -0700 From: Greg Laskowski To: cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["TiltonV. Davis" Tilton, Our laboratory routinely accepts syringes for the prposes of analysing the contents for controlled substances. All syringes must be packaged in a safe crushproof container. Needles must be capped. Analyst must wear safety gear that icludes safety glasses, lab coat and gloves. If possible, liquid inside the syringe is not expressed through the needle bore. If the needle requires recapping, it is not done with the free hand. The cap is secureed to the bench and the syringe is reinserted. Again, the syringe is placed in a secure syringe container which is then properly labelled and packaged. We have had some inadvertent needle sticks, thus we have instituted a more rigorous protocol. Posession of a syringe containing a controlled substance is prosecuted in this county. A laboraotry report on the contents of that syringe is necessary for trial. Hope this answers your question. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us office phone: (661) 868-5659 >>> Basten 10/10 9:18 AM >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Tilton V. Davis" ] >From forens-owner Tue Oct 10 10:52:48 2000 Received: from state.wy.us (missc.state.wy.us [159.238.6.2]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16586 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from incdomain-Message_Server by state.wy.us with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:34 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.4 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:52:14 -0600 From: "Tilton V. Davis" To: Subject: DNA analysis of syringes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id KAA16587 We are looking at developing an analysis scheme for syringes including needles found at crime scenes. I am interested in hearing about protocols, legal issues, and comments about pursuing this type of analysis. Thanks in advance. Tilton Davis Wyoming State Crime Laboratory From forens-owner Wed Oct 11 11:28:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03518 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.unioncountynj.org (unioncountynj.org [207.122.80.3]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03513 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unioncountynj.org ([207.122.80.17]) by home.unioncountynj.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-63061U900L100S0V35) with ESMTP id org; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:40:23 -0400 Message-ID: <39E4B1B2.25773D5E@unioncountynj.org> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:30:10 -0700 From: ucpolab@unioncountynj.org (Union County Prosecutor's Lab) Reply-To: ucpolab@unioncountynj.org Organization: Union County Prosecutor's Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Thompson, Jeff" CC: "'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group'" Subject: Re: syringe analysis References: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE047F0F8@HBPDMAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Just to add another caveat: there is hazard from needles even when uncapping and flimsy latex gloves will give NO protection from needle sticks. I strongly suggest the use of other engineering devices whenever handling syringes, such as pliers or forceps to handle both syringe and needle or cap. P.S. It's been our experience that even when a syringe is found to contain CDS, the courts often downgrade the charge to possession of paraphernalia. Why in the world would we want to subject ourselves to exposure to horrific diseases? We only analyze syringes when specifically requested and there's gotta be a GOOD reason! Frank Garland Sr. Forensic Chemist / Supervisor Union County Prosecutor's Lab Westfield NJ Thompson, Jeff wrote: > I would add only one thing to the current excellent tips -- NEVER recap the > syringe, no matter how careful you are (of course, your fingers will not be > anywhere near the needle if you are doing it right)! The plastic needle > cover/cap that comes on insulin syringes is very thin & the needle can > easily penetrate it if you get the needle out of alignment in the least (as > one of our patrol officers found out). > > Jeff Thompson, F-ABC > Supervising Criminalist > Scientific Investigation Unit > Huntington Beach Police Dept. > Huntington Beach, CA (USA) From forens-owner Wed Oct 11 13:49:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05329 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f182.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.182]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05324 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:48:59 -0700 Received: from 64.217.215.225 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:48:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.217.215.225] From: "John Lyons" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Capital Punishment Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:48:59 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2000 17:48:59.0480 (UTC) FILETIME=[88DA3580:01C033AB] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Remember that line in the movie Field of Dreams "If you build it, they will come". Does anyone know how Dr. Guillotin died? John B. Lyons Criminal Investigator County Attorney's Office Johnson County, TX johnblyons@hotmail.com ======================= TODAY IN HEALTH HISTORY ======================= A Standard For Capital Punishment French physician Joseph-Ignace Guillotin (1738-1814) lent his name to a beheading device, the guillotine, used extensively during the French Revolution. Although he is largely credited with inventing the device, he actually did not. On this date in 1789, Guillotin argued before the French National Assembly that painless and private beheading by machine, without torture or other cruelty, should become the capital punishment standard in France. The Assembly endorsed his idea and began using the guillotine publicly in 1792. Much to Guillotin's dismay, thousands of people died in France in this fashion during the Revolution. Guillotin died in 1814. Copyright InteliHealth, Inc., 2000. All rights reserved. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Wed Oct 11 17:11:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08027 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firewall.ircc.cc.fl.us (thor2.ircc.cc.fl.us [209.149.16.4]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08022 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:11:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exch1.ircc.cc.fl.us by firewall.ircc.cc.fl.us via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 11 Oct 2000 21:11:40 UT Received: by exch1.ircc.cc.fl.us with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <44L4YPAM>; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:59:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: Robert Parsons To: "'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group'" Subject: RE: syringe analysis Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:59:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C033C6.3406E182" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C033C6.3406E182 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Frank's right, gloves don't provide much protection from needle sticks (they do protect somewhat from needle scrapes, especially if you double glove like I do)- which is why you must handle syringes carefully, using engineering devices whenever possible, just as Frank suggests. The bottom line, though, is syringes themselves aren't dangerous, only the needles are, so just keep away from the needle (duh!). The risk is a reasonable one if you behave responsibly. After all, the same risk of needle stick didn't stop us from doing manual injection of blood for BAC analysis, anymore than it stops phlebotomists, nurses, and doctors from doing their medical jobs, which frequently involve needles, syringes, and human specimens - you just have to be careful. I've done manual BAC injections for 18 years and only had one stick I can think of, back when I was a rookie in training (and when no one even wore gloves - we handled blood samples bare handed in those days, incredibly enough. Yes, I now think that was nuts, but no one was concerned in those simpler days before HIV and HEP B became news). The level and type of the charge is immaterial to us; a request for analysis is a request for analysis. We won't touch syringes (especially those with needles attached) if there is other evidence sufficient to meet the charges, but if the syringe is all there is then we analyze it - it's part of the job. Biohazard and/or chemical exposure risks are an unavoidable part of working in a biological and/or chemical lab, especially in one that deals with human specimens. Evidence analysis frequently poses health risks of various kinds; again, it's part of the job. You simply limit the risks through responsible handling, protective equipment, up-to-date immunizations, and regular medical check-ups. If you do that, the risk is actually quite low. That's how I see it, anyway. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Regional Crime Laboratory at Indian River Community College Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: ucpolab@unioncountynj.org [mailto:ucpolab@unioncountynj.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:30 PM To: Thompson, Jeff Cc: 'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group' Subject: Re: syringe analysis Just to add another caveat: there is hazard from needles even when uncapping and flimsy latex gloves will give NO protection from needle sticks. I strongly suggest the use of other engineering devices whenever handling syringes, such as pliers or forceps to handle both syringe and needle or cap. P.S. It's been our experience that even when a syringe is found to contain CDS, the courts often downgrade the charge to possession of paraphernalia. Why in the world would we want to subject ourselves to exposure to horrific diseases? We only analyze syringes when specifically requested and there's gotta be a GOOD reason! Frank Garland Sr. Forensic Chemist / Supervisor Union County Prosecutor's Lab Westfield NJ Thompson, Jeff wrote: > I would add only one thing to the current excellent tips -- NEVER recap the > syringe, no matter how careful you are (of course, your fingers will not be > anywhere near the needle if you are doing it right)! The plastic needle > cover/cap that comes on insulin syringes is very thin & the needle can > easily penetrate it if you get the needle out of alignment in the least (as > one of our patrol officers found out). > > Jeff Thompson, F-ABC > Supervising Criminalist > Scientific Investigation Unit > Huntington Beach Police Dept. > Huntington Beach, CA (USA) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C033C6.3406E182 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: syringe analysis

Frank's right, gloves don't provide much protection = from needle sticks (they do protect somewhat from needle scrapes, = especially if you double glove like I do)- which is why you must handle = syringes carefully, using engineering devices whenever possible, just = as Frank suggests.  The bottom line, though, is syringes = themselves aren't dangerous, only the needles are, so just keep away = from the needle (duh!).  The risk is a reasonable one if you = behave responsibly.  After all, the same risk of needle stick = didn't stop us from doing manual injection of blood for BAC analysis, = anymore than it stops phlebotomists, nurses, and doctors from doing = their medical jobs, which frequently involve needles, syringes, and = human specimens - you just have to be careful.  I've done manual = BAC injections for 18 years and only had one stick I can think of, back = when I was a rookie in training (and when no one even wore gloves - we = handled blood samples bare handed in those days, incredibly = enough.  Yes, I now think that was nuts, but no one was concerned = in those simpler days before HIV and HEP B became news).

The level and type of the charge is immaterial to us; = a request for analysis is a request for analysis.  We won't touch = syringes (especially those with needles attached) if there is other = evidence sufficient to meet the charges, but if the syringe is all = there is then we analyze it - it's part of the job.  Biohazard = and/or chemical exposure risks are an unavoidable part of working in a = biological and/or chemical lab, especially in one that deals with human = specimens.  Evidence analysis frequently poses health risks of = various kinds; again, it's part of the job.  You simply limit the = risks through responsible handling, protective equipment, up-to-date = immunizations, and regular medical check-ups.  If you do that, the = risk is actually quite low.  That's how I see it, = anyway.

Bob Parsons, F-ABC
Forensic Chemist
Regional Crime Laboratory
at Indian River Community College
Ft. Pierce, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: ucpolab@unioncountynj.org [mailto:ucpolab@unioncountynj.o= rg]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:30 PM
To: Thompson, Jeff
Cc: 'ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion = Group'
Subject: Re: syringe analysis


Just to add another caveat: there is hazard from = needles even when uncapping
and flimsy latex gloves will give NO protection from = needle sticks.  I strongly
suggest the use of other engineering devices = whenever handling syringes, such
as pliers or forceps to handle both syringe and = needle or cap.

P.S.  It's been our experience that even when a = syringe is found to contain
CDS, the courts often downgrade the charge to = possession of paraphernalia.  Why
in the world would we want to subject ourselves to = exposure to horrific
diseases?  We only analyze syringes when = specifically requested and there's
gotta be a GOOD reason!

Frank Garland
Sr. Forensic Chemist / Supervisor
Union County Prosecutor's Lab
Westfield NJ

Thompson, Jeff wrote:

> I would add only one thing to the current = excellent tips -- NEVER recap the
> syringe, no matter how careful you are (of = course, your fingers will not be
> anywhere near the needle if you are doing it = right)!  The plastic needle
> cover/cap that comes on insulin syringes is = very thin & the needle can
> easily penetrate it if you get the needle out = of alignment in the least (as
> one of our patrol officers found out).
>
> Jeff Thompson, F-ABC
> Supervising Criminalist
> Scientific Investigation Unit
> Huntington Beach Police Dept.
> Huntington Beach, CA (USA)


------_=_NextPart_001_01C033C6.3406E182-- From forens-owner Wed Oct 11 19:33:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09573 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f261.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.240.38]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09568 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:33:26 -0700 Received: from 198.111.149.16 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:33:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.111.149.16] From: "dustin -" To: johnblyons@hotmail.com, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Capital Punishment Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:33:26 AKDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2000 23:33:26.0550 (UTC) FILETIME=[A762D360:01C033DB] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk According to this site: http://members.aol.com/agentmess/frenchrev/drguillotin.html he died a natural death. No memtion of a specific cause. "Until his natural death, Dr. Guillotin tried to rid his name from the dreaded machine, quite unsuccessfully. The Guillotine was used all throughout history since then, up until the 1980's when the last public execution took place." Was not aware it was used so recently. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Thu Oct 12 00:30:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA12457 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r11.mail.aol.com (imo-r11.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12452 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:30:21 -0400 (EDT) From: LEGALEYE1@aol.com Received: from LEGALEYE1@aol.com by imo-r11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.26.) id y.2b.bdb7511 (4213) for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2b.bdb7511.27169839@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:29:45 EDT Subject: Re: Capital Punishment To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 106 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk In a message dated 10/11/00 4:42:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mrroper@hotmail.com writes: > > "Until his natural death, Dr. Guillotin tried to rid his name from the > dreaded machine, quite unsuccessfully. The Guillotine was > used all throughout history since then, up until the 1980's when the last > public execution took place." Makes sense. Besides an IV injection of cellulose the only ways to insure the death of a vampire is burning and beheading as is the case with black magic witches. Really. It's been proven in scientific studies. Boo. From forens-owner Thu Oct 12 01:46:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA13246 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.gcn.gov.hk (mail.gcn.gov.hk [202.128.227.20]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13241 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from twwong.govtlab.gov.hk ([202.82.110.20]) by mail.gcn.gov.hk (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id e9C5juX12501 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:45:56 +0800 (HKT) Message-ID: <001601c03410$94cc1e20$040c130a@twwong.govtlab.gov.hk> From: "T.W. Wong" To: "forensic discussion group" Subject: Facial comparison method used by FBI Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:51:56 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C03453.9601BC80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C03453.9601BC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anybody know the facial comparison method, .i.e. comparison of two = photos to see if the objects in the photos come from the same person, = used by FBI or other police force? David Forensic Science Division Government Laboratory Hong Kong ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C03453.9601BC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anybody know the facial = comparison method,=20 .i.e. comparison of two photos to see if the objects in the photos come = from the=20 same person, used by FBI or other police force?
 
David
Forensic Science Division
Government Laboratory
Hong Kong
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C03453.9601BC80-- From forens-owner Thu Oct 12 05:47:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA15337 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yowie.cc.uq.edu.au (root@yowie.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.2]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15332 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s349288 (s349288.student.uq.edu.au [172.20.44.253]) by yowie.cc.uq.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25138 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:47:03 +1000 (GMT+1000) Message-ID: <004a01c03431$19a10a00$fd2c14ac@s349288> From: "Claire Armstrong" To: References: <2b.bdb7511.27169839@aol.com> Subject: subscribing Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:45:03 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk could someone please refresh my memory of the subscribing procedure. I have a colleague who wishes to join up and i've deleted the relevant file from the computer! Thanks in advance Claire Armstrong s349288@student.uq.edu.au From forens-owner Thu Oct 12 08:20:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16644 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca (nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca [132.156.36.1]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16639 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from x7b0k6 (mharris.dialup.NRCan.gc.ca [132.156.133.36]) by nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA11392 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.20001012122319.0066772c@pop.ncf.carleton.ca> X-Sender: ah247@pop.ncf.carleton.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:23:19 -0400 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Marilyn Harris Subject: Pathology Question Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi; I would like to know what the tissue is that is found within the direct wound area (ie; the area within the circular "hole") shown in the closeup and tight closeup photos at the following URLs. http://www.newsmax.com/rbrown/photo6.shtml http://www.newsmax.com/images/ronbrown/Photo_3.jpg I cannot tell whether it is scalp or bone tissue. I'm fairly certain that it is not brain tissue (and cannot be, for other reasons). Thanks for any help! Marilyn From forens-owner Thu Oct 12 16:56:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22894 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:56:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r14.mail.aol.com (imo-r14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22889 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:56:47 -0400 (EDT) From: CSumme3726@aol.com Received: from CSumme3726@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id y.17.c25af4c (4522) for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <17.c25af4c.27177f6b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:56:11 EDT Subject: Cambodian Population Database To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 147 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello fellow forensic scientist, My name is Brian Pfleegor and I am a DNA analyst working in the Philadelphia Police DNA laboratory. I have been looking for a Cambodian Population database for the Polymarker & HLA DQA1 markers. I would appreciate any help that you folks could give me in my quest. Thanks in Advance. From forens-owner Thu Oct 12 19:33:53 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24364 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca (nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca [132.156.36.1]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24359 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from x7b0k6 (mharris.dialup.NRCan.gc.ca [132.156.133.36]) by nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA10576 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.20001012233654.00672690@pop.ncf.carleton.ca> X-Sender: ah247@pop.ncf.carleton.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:36:54 -0400 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Marilyn Harris Subject: Re: Pathology Question Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk >http://www.newsmax.com/rbrown/photo6.shtml >http://www.newsmax.com/images/ronbrown/Photo_3.jpg To those who reposnded and any other who are interested; The responses were either bone or fat with one person calling the circular "hole" a bullet entry wound. One more question which I should have asked in my first post (sorry): Is the material (whether fat or skull) within the circular region, the same as the material found adjacent and surrounding the "hole"? To my unskilled eye, they look the same... Thanks, Marilyn, non-medical person From forens-owner Fri Oct 13 02:54:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA28336 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f114.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.114]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28331 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:54:23 -0700 Received: from 24.4.254.161 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:54:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.4.254.161] From: "John Lyons" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: William Quinland the pathologist Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:54:23 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2000 06:54:23.0982 (UTC) FILETIME=[6BA850E0:01C034E2] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ======================= TODAY IN HEALTH HISTORY ======================= William Quinland was a pathologist and educator who contributed pioneering research on pathology in African-Americans. A graduate of the Meharry Medical College in Nashville, he turned down a professorship at Harvard Medical College to take a faculty position at Meharry, a medical institution for African-American practitioners, believing they needed him more. Quinland published studies on numerous topics, among them a study on carcinomas in which types of cancers were found in samples from African-American men and women of various ages. He was elected the first black member of the American Association of Pathologists and Bacteriologists. Quinland was born on this date in 1885 and died in 1953. Copyright InteliHealth, Inc., 2000. All rights reserved. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Fri Oct 13 08:34:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01228 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01223 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:34:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Ian Parton" ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:33:32 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Ian Parton" ] >From forens-owner Thu Oct 12 11:33:31 2000 Received: from tserver2.fast.net.uk (ns1.fast.net.uk [212.42.162.2]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19377 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tinyelectric ([212.42.168.60]) by tserver2.fast.net.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA37051 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:31:09 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from ian@electricsky.com) Message-ID: <00ac01c03334$8f305800$3ca82ad4@tinyelectric> From: "Ian Parton" To: Subject: Can you help with a forensic archaeology TV series Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 04:37:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A9_01C0333C.EC1494C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01C0333C.EC1494C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello My name is Ian Parton - I work for a TV company called Electric Sky. We = are currently producing a forensic archaeology TV series for US cable. In each episode we will focus on the discovery of ancient human remains = and through the use of forensic techniques attempt to paint a picture of = the persons life and how they died. In doing so we will give the viewer = an insight into the society they came from. At the moment we are looking for potential stories to cover. If anyone = has any suggestions or firsthand experience of a good story it would be = great to hear from you. Ideally the story would unravel rather like a police investigation and = should involve the use of forensic techniques to resolve an ancient = mystery. Filming can take place anywhere in the world. My e-mail address is ian@electricsky.com Regards, Ian Parton ------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01C0333C.EC1494C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello
 
My name is Ian Parton - I work for a TV = company=20 called Electric Sky.  We are currently producing a forensic = archaeology TV=20 series for US cable.
 
In each episode we will focus on the = discovery=20 of  ancient human remains and through the use of forensic = techniques=20 attempt to paint a picture of the persons life and how they died.  = In doing=20 so we will give the viewer an insight into the society they came=20 from.
 
At the moment we are looking for = potential stories=20 to cover.  If anyone has any suggestions or firsthand experience of = a good=20 story it would be great to hear from you.
 
Ideally the story would unravel rather = like a=20 police investigation and should involve the use of forensic techniques = to=20 resolve an ancient mystery.  Filming can take place anywhere in the = world.
 
My e-mail address is ian@electricsky.com
 
Regards,
 
 
Ian=20 Parton
------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01C0333C.EC1494C0-- From forens-owner Fri Oct 13 09:34:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02304 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ascl-image.ascl.state.ar.us (ascl.state.ar.us [170.94.222.10]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02298 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ASCL-IMAGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:33:28 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Taylor, Jeff" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: SEM polishing Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:33:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0351A.2B0F4CFE" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0351A.2B0F4CFE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am looking for some advise on mounting and polishing paint samples for SEM. I need input on types of mounting substances and good polishing techniques. Thanks ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0351A.2B0F4CFE Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SEM polishing

I am looking for some advise on = mounting and polishing paint samples for SEM.  I need input on = types of mounting substances and good polishing techniques.  =

Thanks

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0351A.2B0F4CFE-- From forens-owner Fri Oct 13 09:52:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02855 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cidintmail01.infosel.com.mx (cidintmail01.infosel.com.mx [207.248.1.43]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02850 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:52:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from perezcampos (200.36.139.143) by cidintmail01.infosel.com.mx (NPlex 5.0.047) id 39E6039E00028F60 for forens@statgen.ncsu.edu; Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:41:49 -0500 Message-ID: <00eb01c0351d$77697ea0$a885fea9@perezcampos> Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Eduardo_P=E9rez_Campos?= From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Eduardo_P=E9rez_Campos?= To: References: Subject: Criminalistic Laboratory Manual books Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:57:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C034F3.8D886F40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C034F3.8D886F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SEM polishingI am looking for a Criminalistic Laboratory Manual = (practical), recommended for advanced forensic science student. Any suggestions? Too thanks in advance. E Perez Campos Mayoral ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C034F3.8D886F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SEM polishing

I am=20 looking  for a Criminalistic Laboratory Manual (practical),=20 recommended for  advanced forensic science=20 student.

Any=20 suggestions?

Too thanks=20 in advance.

E Perez=20 Campos Mayoral

------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C034F3.8D886F40-- From forens-owner Sat Oct 14 13:58:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16705 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f166.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.166]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16700 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:58:02 -0700 Received: from 4.54.201.155 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:58:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.54.201.155] From: "Kelly Esslinger" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: PiHKAL Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:58:01 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2000 17:58:02.0003 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B75E630:01C03608] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has access to Shulgin's book, Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved(PiHKAL)...specifically synthesis #109 for MDMA from safrole. I've been able to come up with the synthesis as far as MDP-2-P, but once it reaches the cyanborohydride scheme, I haven't been able to find any info on reactions and reagents. If anyone could help me, I would appreciate it greatly:) thanks, Kelly Esslinger MSU Forensic Science _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Sat Oct 14 14:18:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16995 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f289.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.30.164]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16990 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:18:00 -0700 Received: from 4.54.201.155 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:17:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.54.201.155] From: "Kelly Esslinger" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: PiHKAL Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:17:59 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2000 18:18:00.0067 (UTC) FILETIME=[158FF530:01C0360B] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I appoligize, I was able to find a copy of the PiHAKAL book online after further searching....sorry to clog all of your mailboxes. Kelly _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Sat Oct 14 20:07:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19890 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19885 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:07:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Mamlind@aol.com Received: from Mamlind@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id y.79.ad60d1d (4532) for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:06:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <79.ad60d1d.271a4f0c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:06:36 EDT Subject: Hair analysis To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu (FORENS-L POSTING (E-mail)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 115 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Robert, I am new to list and have a question. First, any replies you received I did not see show up on this list. And, I am very curious about what the controversy is over hair analysis for cocaine, and I am sure there are others, so if you could give me and others some info on the controversy it would be greatly appreciated. I am a Criminal Justice major and always looking for info on all subjects criminal. Thanks, MaryAnn From forens-owner Mon Oct 16 08:23:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06505 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [64.240.232.234] ([64.240.232.234]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06500 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hbpdmail01.surfcity-hb.org by [64.240.232.234] via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 16 Oct 2000 12:23:15 UT Received: by HBPDMAIL01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:22:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE006FFFE@HBPDMAIL01> From: "Breyer, Chris" To: "'dustin -'" , johnblyons@hotmail.com, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Capital Punishment Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:22:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk In the last year, the History Channel did an hour-long feature on the Guillotine, including the last use of it, in France if my recall is correct, in the 70s or 80s. C. Breyer -----Original Message----- From: dustin - [mailto:mrroper@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:33 AM To: johnblyons@hotmail.com; forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Capital Punishment According to this site: http://members.aol.com/agentmess/frenchrev/drguillotin.html he died a natural death. No memtion of a specific cause. "Until his natural death, Dr. Guillotin tried to rid his name from the dreaded machine, quite unsuccessfully. The Guillotine was used all throughout history since then, up until the 1980's when the last public execution took place." Was not aware it was used so recently. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Mon Oct 16 08:38:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06782 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oberon.dnai.com (oberon.dnai.com [207.181.194.97]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06777 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from azoth.dnai.com (azoth.dnai.com [207.181.194.94]) by oberon.dnai.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA37175; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbn (207-172-166-186.s186.tnt1.sfrn.ca.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.166.186]) by azoth.dnai.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA02756; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20001016053801.007bba20@dnai.com> X-Sender: kmk@dnai.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:38:01 -0700 To: "Breyer, Chris" , "'dustin -'" , johnblyons@hotmail.com, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Kim Kruglick Subject: RE: Capital Punishment In-Reply-To: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE006FFFE@HBPDMAIL01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk At 05:22 AM 10/16/2000 -0700, Breyer, Chris wrote: >In the last year, the History Channel did an hour-long feature on the >Guillotine, including the last use of it, in France if my recall is correct, >in the 70s or 80s. > >C. Breyer Take a look at the Death Penalty links at mt site for info on various methods of execution and their implementation.URL in signature line. Kim Kruglick mailto:kim@kruglaw.com ------------------------ Forensic Resource and Criminal Law Search Site http://www.kruglaw.com From forens-owner Mon Oct 16 14:59:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11347 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhub.state.me.us (mailhub.state.me.us [141.114.122.227]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11342 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dps-email.ps.state.me.us by mailhub.state.me.us with ESMTP for forens@statgen.ncsu.edu; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:49:16 -0400 Received: from [141.114.109.134] by dps-email.ps.state.me.us for forens@statgen.ncsu.edu; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:55:36 -0400 Message-Id: <000701c037a3$1de333c0$866d728d@pschelms.ps.state.me.us> From: "Gretchen D. Hicks" To: "Forens-l" Subject: Fire Debris Questions Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:58:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C03781.91D777E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C03781.91D777E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Again, I have more fire debris questions - =20 Our fire investigators currently use mason jars for evidence collection, = and are determined not to change their methods. Are other laboratories = accepting fire debris evidence in mason jars? What are the pros and = cons of using the jars? For those labs that allow mason jars, do you = change containers for your extraction (charcoal strip)? Thanks in advance. Gretchen Hicks ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C03781.91D777E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Again, I have more fire debris questions -  =
 
Our fire investigators currently use mason jars for = evidence=20 collection, and are determined not to change their methods.  Are = other=20 laboratories accepting fire debris evidence in mason jars?  What = are the=20 pros and cons of using the jars?  For those labs that allow mason = jars, do=20 you change containers for your extraction (charcoal strip)?
 
Thanks in advance.
Gretchen Hicks
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C03781.91D777E0-- From forens-owner Mon Oct 16 18:52:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13636 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:52:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13631 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id y.fb.c631258 (9492) for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:52:26 EDT Subject: Fwd: A washingtonpost.com article from kjohn39679@aol.com To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_fb.c631258.271ce0aa_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 66 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk --part1_fb.c631258.271ce0aa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/16/00 6:49:08 PM, register@washingtonpost.com writes: << To view the entire article, go to http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13607-2000Oct15.html Report Alleges Inequities In Texas Execution Process AUSTIN, Oct. 15 –– In a comprehensive new report echoing familiar criticisms of the death penalty, an organization that gives free legal aid to condemned prisoners describes Texas's vigorous capital punishment process as "a thoroughly flawed system" marred by "racial bias, incompetent [defense] counsel, and misconduct committed by police officers and prosecutors." The report, to be released Monday, is based on a review of hundreds of death penalty cases in the nation's busiest execution state. Relying on an array of statistical and anecdotal evidence, the study alleges numerous inequities in the system, many of which have been cited in news stories since Gov. George W. Bush, a death penalty supporter, launched his Republican presidential campaign. Titled "A State of Denial: Texas Justice and the Death Penalty," the study portrays "a system in desperate need of reform"--a system in which capital murder defendants, most of them indigent, receive token legal represen! tation during their life-or-death trials, then are thwarted in their appeals by rules meant to limit their arguments and hasten their dates with the executioner. "In this report we have assembled an unprecedented volume of objective evidence that raises profound questions about the fairness of how and when the death penalty is applied," wrote the authors, who are affiliated with the nonprofit Texas Defender Service. The group, made up of lawyers who help death row inmates in their appeals, has been strongly critical of Texas's capital punishment system for years. In a chapter on alleged racial bias and the death penalty, the authors say that "more comprehensive statewide research must be done," but add that "our data reveals a clear pattern of disparity in the punishment meted out to those convicted of killing whites as compared to those convicted of killing non-whites, despite the fact that black males are the most likely murder victims." For example, the report says, about one in four murder victims in Texas is a black male. But since the U.S. Supreme Court allowed capital punishment to resume in 1976, the report says, only 0.4 pe! rcent of prisoners executed in Texas have been put to death for murdering black victims. Bush, a strong advocate of "swift and sure" capital punishment, has repeatedly rejected criticism of his state's death penalty system, saying he is certain that no innocent person has been put to death in Texas since he took office in January 1995. During his tenure, the state has carried out 145 executions, far more than any of the other 37 states with capital punishment laws. In all, since the restoration of capital punishment, 232 Texas inmates have been put to death, including 33 so far this year. Ray Sullivan, a Bush campaign spokesman, dismissed the criticism by the Texas Defender Service and reiterated the governor's faith in the death penalty process. "That organization may not like it, but the death penalty is the law of the land in Texas," Sullivan said. "The majority of Texans support it, and the governor is sworn to uphold the law." Sullivan, who had not seen a copy of the ! report, said no pattern of racial bias or other flaws exist in Texas's capital punishment system, and any inequities that occur in individual cases can be rectified during multiple stages of appellate review. "In each case, defendants have full access to the courts of appeal," said Sullivan, echoing Bush's frequent response to death penalty questions. "There are significant safeguards built into the process." In their review of nearly every death penalty case in Texas since the restoration of capital punishment, the authors said, they found that: * In 84 cases, a Texas prosecutor or police officer "deliberately presented false or misleading testimony, concealed exculpatory evidence, or used notoriously unreliable evidence from a jailhouse snitch." * In many murder cases in which two or more co-defendants were put on trial separately, prosecutors presented "irreconcilably inconsistent theories of the same crime" to different juries, arguing in each trial that the defe! ndant in the courtroom was the one who pulled the trigger. * In 121 cases, prosecutors relied on "junk science" to gain convictions and death sentences, including testimony from mental health professionals who--without conducting careful interviews--assured juries that defendants would pose a future threat to society if not executed. * Indigent defendants are routinely represented in trials and during appeals by underpaid, court-appointed lawyers who are inexperienced, inept or uninterested. * In 79 percent of the death penalty appeals that were studied, Texas judges handling the cases at the initial stage affirmed the verdicts and sentences without conducting hearings, basing their decisions "merely on whatever documents were submitted" by defense lawyers and prosecutors. * In 83 percent of those first-stage appeals, the judges' findings "were identical or virtually identical" to the findings proposed by the prosecution--and in nearly all the cases, the same ! findings were later adopted by higher state and federal appellate courts. Many of the issues raised in the study were the focus of stories by news organizations across the country earlier this year, during a period of intense media scrutiny of the death penalty system in Bush's state. The media focus on capital punishment in Texas began after Illinois Gov. George Ryan (R), a Bush supporter and death penalty proponent, declared a moratorium on executions in his state in January, saying he was no longer certain of the system's fairness. Bush was repeatedly questioned about his faith in the system until June, when the media's interest in the subject appeared to wane following the highly publicized execution of Gary Graham, one of the most contentious death penalty cases of Bush's tenure. Bush's Democratic opponent, Vice President Gore, also supports the death penalty, and has not made capital punishment in Texas an issue in the presidential race. On Death Row In a report! critical of capital punishment, the Texas Defender Service asserts that a death sentence is far more likely in Texas in a case in which the murder victim was white than in a case in which the victim was black. Statistics compiled by the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund show that this is also true nationally: As of July 1, there were 3,682 inmates on death rows nationwide. 82 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were white -- yet white people account for only about 50 percent of homicide victims nationally in a typical year. 12 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were black. 4 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were Hispanic. 2 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were other races. That means 18 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were nonwhite -- yet nonwhites account for about 50 percent of homicide victims nationally in a typical year. RACIAL BREAKDOWNS Nationwide: 3,682 inmates on death row a! s of July 1. Black: 43% White: 46% Hispanic: 9% Other: 2% Texas: 446 inmates on death row as of Oct. 11. Black: 40.6% White: 36.3% Hispanic: 21.2% Other: 0.9% SOURCES: NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund, Texas Department of Criminal Justice In the Nation Top 10 execution states since the Supreme Court allowed the restoration of capital punishment in 1976: So far State 1976 this year Texas 232 33 Virginia 80 7 Florida 49 5 Missouri 45 4 Oklahoma 30 11 Louisiana 26 1 South Carolina 24 0 Georgia 23 0 Alabama 23 4 Arkansas 22 1 Source: Death Penalty Information Center >> --part1_fb.c631258.271ce0aa_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (rly-yg04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.4]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:49:08 -0400 Received: from nas1.washingtonpost.com (nas1.washingtonpost.com [206.132.25.65]) by rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:48:45 -0400 Received: from nas1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nas1.washingtonpost.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA23016; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:48:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-Id: <200010162248.SAA23016@nas1.washingtonpost.com> Subject: A washingtonpost.com article from kjohn39679@aol.com To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Unknown You have been sent this message from kjohn39679@aol.com as a courtesy of the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com). To stay on top of the latest political headlines, live discussions and breaking news, register now for the OnPolitics email at http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/email/email.htm. To view the entire article, go to http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13607-2000Oct15.html Report Alleges Inequities In Texas Execution Process AUSTIN, Oct. 15 –– In a comprehensive new report echoing familiar criticisms of the death penalty, an organization that gives free legal aid to condemned prisoners describes Texas's vigorous capital punishment process as "a thoroughly flawed system" marred by "racial bias, incompetent [defense] counsel, and misconduct committed by police officers and prosecutors." The report, to be released Monday, is based on a review of hundreds of death penalty cases in the nation's busiest execution state. Relying on an array of statistical and anecdotal evidence, the study alleges numerous inequities in the system, many of which have been cited in news stories since Gov. George W. Bush, a death penalty supporter, launched his Republican presidential campaign. Titled "A State of Denial: Texas Justice and the Death Penalty," the study portrays "a system in desperate need of reform"--a system in which capital murder defendants, most of them indigent, receive token legal represen! tation during their life-or-death trials, then are thwarted in their appeals by rules meant to limit their arguments and hasten their dates with the executioner. "In this report we have assembled an unprecedented volume of objective evidence that raises profound questions about the fairness of how and when the death penalty is applied," wrote the authors, who are affiliated with the nonprofit Texas Defender Service. The group, made up of lawyers who help death row inmates in their appeals, has been strongly critical of Texas's capital punishment system for years. In a chapter on alleged racial bias and the death penalty, the authors say that "more comprehensive statewide research must be done," but add that "our data reveals a clear pattern of disparity in the punishment meted out to those convicted of killing whites as compared to those convicted of killing non-whites, despite the fact that black males are the most likely murder victims." For example, the report says, about one in four murder victims in Texas is a black male. But since the U.S. Supreme Court allowed capital punishment to resume in 1976, the report says, only 0.4 pe! rcent of prisoners executed in Texas have been put to death for murdering black victims. Bush, a strong advocate of "swift and sure" capital punishment, has repeatedly rejected criticism of his state's death penalty system, saying he is certain that no innocent person has been put to death in Texas since he took office in January 1995. During his tenure, the state has carried out 145 executions, far more than any of the other 37 states with capital punishment laws. In all, since the restoration of capital punishment, 232 Texas inmates have been put to death, including 33 so far this year. Ray Sullivan, a Bush campaign spokesman, dismissed the criticism by the Texas Defender Service and reiterated the governor's faith in the death penalty process. "That organization may not like it, but the death penalty is the law of the land in Texas," Sullivan said. "The majority of Texans support it, and the governor is sworn to uphold the law." Sullivan, who had not seen a copy of the ! report, said no pattern of racial bias or other flaws exist in Texas's capital punishment system, and any inequities that occur in individual cases can be rectified during multiple stages of appellate review. "In each case, defendants have full access to the courts of appeal," said Sullivan, echoing Bush's frequent response to death penalty questions. "There are significant safeguards built into the process." In their review of nearly every death penalty case in Texas since the restoration of capital punishment, the authors said, they found that: * In 84 cases, a Texas prosecutor or police officer "deliberately presented false or misleading testimony, concealed exculpatory evidence, or used notoriously unreliable evidence from a jailhouse snitch." * In many murder cases in which two or more co-defendants were put on trial separately, prosecutors presented "irreconcilably inconsistent theories of the same crime" to different juries, arguing in each trial that the defe! ndant in the courtroom was the one who pulled the trigger. * In 121 cases, prosecutors relied on "junk science" to gain convictions and death sentences, including testimony from mental health professionals who--without conducting careful interviews--assured juries that defendants would pose a future threat to society if not executed. * Indigent defendants are routinely represented in trials and during appeals by underpaid, court-appointed lawyers who are inexperienced, inept or uninterested. * In 79 percent of the death penalty appeals that were studied, Texas judges handling the cases at the initial stage affirmed the verdicts and sentences without conducting hearings, basing their decisions "merely on whatever documents were submitted" by defense lawyers and prosecutors. * In 83 percent of those first-stage appeals, the judges' findings "were identical or virtually identical" to the findings proposed by the prosecution--and in nearly all the cases, the same ! findings were later adopted by higher state and federal appellate courts. Many of the issues raised in the study were the focus of stories by news organizations across the country earlier this year, during a period of intense media scrutiny of the death penalty system in Bush's state. The media focus on capital punishment in Texas began after Illinois Gov. George Ryan (R), a Bush supporter and death penalty proponent, declared a moratorium on executions in his state in January, saying he was no longer certain of the system's fairness. Bush was repeatedly questioned about his faith in the system until June, when the media's interest in the subject appeared to wane following the highly publicized execution of Gary Graham, one of the most contentious death penalty cases of Bush's tenure. Bush's Democratic opponent, Vice President Gore, also supports the death penalty, and has not made capital punishment in Texas an issue in the presidential race. On Death Row In a report! critical of capital punishment, the Texas Defender Service asserts that a death sentence is far more likely in Texas in a case in which the murder victim was white than in a case in which the victim was black. Statistics compiled by the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund show that this is also true nationally: As of July 1, there were 3,682 inmates on death rows nationwide. 82 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were white -- yet white people account for only about 50 percent of homicide victims nationally in a typical year. 12 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were black. 4 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were Hispanic. 2 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were other races. That means 18 percent of the victims killed by these inmates were nonwhite -- yet nonwhites account for about 50 percent of homicide victims nationally in a typical year. RACIAL BREAKDOWNS Nationwide: 3,682 inmates on death row a! s of July 1. Black: 43% White: 46% Hispanic: 9% Other: 2% Texas: 446 inmates on death row as of Oct. 11. Black: 40.6% White: 36.3% Hispanic: 21.2% Other: 0.9% SOURCES: NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund, Texas Department of Criminal Justice In the Nation Top 10 execution states since the Supreme Court allowed the restoration of capital punishment in 1976: So far State 1976 this year Texas 232 33 Virginia 80 7 Florida 49 5 Missouri 45 4 Oklahoma 30 11 Louisiana 26 1 South Carolina 24 0 Georgia 23 0 Alabama 23 4 Arkansas 22 1 Source: Death Penalty Information Center --part1_fb.c631258.271ce0aa_boundary-- From forens-owner Mon Oct 16 23:13:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15592 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from la.znet.com (la.znet.com [207.167.96.1]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15587 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.167.96.47] (lats1-47.znet.net [207.167.96.47]) by la.znet.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/jjb-la) with ESMTP id e9H3DDL23609 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200010170313.e9H3DDL23609@la.znet.com> X-Envelope-From: rkeister@zippnet.net X-Envelope-To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.02 (298) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:13:31 -0700 Subject: Got DNA? From: "Rob Keister" To: Forensic Science List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id XAA15588 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Attorney must pay man $2.6 million Associated Press Last Updated: Oct. 13, 2000 Madison - A jury has found the attorney of a man wrongly convicted of rape should pay his client more than $2.6 million, because the lawyer did not seek crucial DNA tests that might have exonerated the client. The decision Thursday against attorney Willie Nunnery came in the case of Anthony Hicks, who spent 4 1/2 years in prison. Hicks claimed that during his 1991 trial, Nunnery neglected to seek DNA tests on hair-root tissue samples that might have proved he did not commit the rape. The lawsuit, heard before Dane County Circuit Judge Steven Ebert, also alleged that Nunnery failed before the trial to pursue a witness who would have bolstered Hicks' alibi. The jury decided that Nunnery was negligent on both counts and that Hicks might have been found not guilty had Nunnery taken those steps. They awarded Hicks $2,606,950. Hicks' attorney, Jeff Scott Olson, had asked the jury for $2.5 million for lost wages and the pain and humiliation that Hicks suffered from the conviction. "It's closure for myself and my family," Hicks said moments after the verdict. "It's now time to move forward." Nunnery and his lawyer, Robert Hase, left the courtroom after the verdict without comment. Hicks was convicted of sexually assaulting a woman in her Madison apartment on Nov. 15, 1990, and was sentenced to 19 years in prison. DNA evidence, taken from root tissue of hairs found at the crime scene eventually won him freedom. Hase told the jury that Nunnery should not have been expected to know about the procedure to analyze DNA taken from root tissue. Haze also questioned whether the DNA evidence would have been strong enough to put reasonable doubt into the minds of jurors at Hicks' trial. Appeared in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on Oct. 14, 2000. © Copyright 2000, Journal Sentinel Inc. All rights reserved. Produced by Journal Interactive _____________________________________________________   Rob Keister | Socrates: "To be is to do" Forensic Scientist | Nietzche: "To do is to be" rkeister@zippnet.net | Sinatra: "Dooby Dooby Doo" ______________________|______________________________ From forens-owner Tue Oct 17 09:30:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20244 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web204.mail.yahoo.com (web204.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.104]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20239 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12590 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Oct 2000 13:30:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20001017133043.12589.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.79.108.58] by web204.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:30:43 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:30:43 -0700 (PDT) From: John Lentini Reply-To: johnlentini@yahoo.com Subject: AACCE "Certification" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Does anyone need certification, but want to avoid messy documentation and examinations? Try AACCE (Http://www.aacce.org) It looks like the ACFE, only more so. Fill out the form, pay the money and presto! $375 buys certification and one year's dues, $735 buys 3 years. $195 a year thereafter. You can even sign up on-line if you pay by credit card! No documentation is required (though they may ask for some later). The application does not even ask where you got your degree. Here is the disclaimer at the bottom of the application.: "I certify that the above information is true and correct. I may be asked to provide documentation. If I would misrepresent my credentials, refuse to provide documentation at a later time if asked, or allow my membership in the American Academy of Certified Consultants and Experts to lapse, I understand and agree that my Diplomate Status will be revoked and my membership terminated. I affirm that all of the information that I have provided to AACCE is true, correct, and complete and I agree to hold harmless and indemnify the AACCE and its officers, directors, employees, and agents for any misrepresentations of my credentials and for all claims, loss, damage, judgment, or expense. I certify that I have not been convicted of a felony. I have not been disciplined for an ethical violation in the last 10 years and I am not under investigation by any legal or medical authority or licensing board. The American Academy of Certified Consultants and Experts (AACCE) does not endorse, guarantee or warrant the work or opinions of any individual member. Membership does not imply licensing by the organization of a member's qualifications, abilities or expertise. The objective of the AACCE's publications and the activities that it sponsors is for informative and educational purposes. The views expressed by the authors, publishers or presenters are their own views and do not necessarily reflect those of the AACCE. The AACCE does not assume any responsibility or liability for its members or subscriber's efforts to apply or utilize the information, suggestions or recommendations made by the organization, publication resources or activities. Type your name exactly as you want it to appear on your Diploma:" This type of organization provides good reasons to: 1. Encourage AAFS to complete work on its accrediting processfor certifying bodies. 2. Use much caution when mentioning "certification" in any standards documents or published articles. ===== Nothing worthwhile happens until somebody makes it happen. John J. Lentini, johnlentini@yahoo.com Certified Fire Investigator Fellow, American Board of Criminalistics http://www.atslab.com 800-544-5117 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From forens-owner Tue Oct 17 09:45:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20482 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ascl-image.ascl.state.ar.us (ascl.state.ar.us [170.94.222.10]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20477 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ASCL-IMAGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:44:27 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ray, Stephen" To: "'Gretchen D. Hicks'" , Forens-l Subject: RE: Fire Debris Questions Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:44:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C03840.5DCBA164" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03840.5DCBA164 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Gretchen, We accept fire debris evidence in either mason jars or metal cans. One of the problems with mason jars is that they will break, especially if shipped through the mail. We do not change containers for our extraction procedure (charcoal strip). Stephen P. Ray Arkansas State Crime Laboratory -----Original Message----- From: Gretchen D. Hicks [mailto:Gretchen.D.Hicks@state.me.us] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 1:59 PM To: Forens-l Subject: Fire Debris Questions Again, I have more fire debris questions - Our fire investigators currently use mason jars for evidence collection, and are determined not to change their methods. Are other laboratories accepting fire debris evidence in mason jars? What are the pros and cons of using the jars? For those labs that allow mason jars, do you change containers for your extraction (charcoal strip)? Thanks in advance. Gretchen Hicks ------_=_NextPart_001_01C03840.5DCBA164 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gretchen,

<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:2'>       &nbs= p;           &nbs= p;   

<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:2'>       &nbs= p;           &nbs= p;    We accept fire debris evidence in either mason jars or metal cans.  One of the problems with = mason jars is that they will break, especially if shipped through the mail.  We do not change containers = for our extraction procedure (charcoal = strip).

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]> 

=

S= tephen P. Ray =

A= rkansas State Crime Laboratory

<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>       &nbs= p;   

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]> 

=

-----Original Message-----
From: Gretchen D. Hicks [mailto:Gretchen.D.Hicks@state.me.us]
Sent: Monday, October = 16, 2000 1:59 PM
To: Forens-l
Subject: Fire Debris = Questions

 

Again, I have more fire debris questions -  =

 =

Our fire investigators currently use mason jars for evidence collection, and are determined not to change their methods.  Are other laboratories = accepting fire debris evidence in mason jars?  What are the pros and cons of = using the jars?  For those labs that allow mason jars, do you change = containers for your extraction (charcoal strip)?=

 =

Thanks in advance.

Gretchen Hicks

------_=_NextPart_001_01C03840.5DCBA164-- From forens-owner Tue Oct 17 10:02:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20931 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from red01.uspis.gov ([204.117.11.226]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20926 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by red01.uspis.gov; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA04032; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Smith, Stephanie L" To: "'johnlentini@yahoo.com'" , forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: AACCE "Certification" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:02:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Is there any surprise that the organizations share the same mailing address. . . apparently, the money was drying up for ACFE. . . time to create a new (very lucrative) scam. . . I want to know who reads the requirements for certification by these groups and actually thinks that there could be ANY real value. . . who is buying this crap? Stephanie L. Smith, D-ABC Senior Forensic Chemist -----Original Message----- From: John Lentini [mailto:johnlentini@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:31 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: AACCE "Certification" Does anyone need certification, but want to avoid messy documentation and examinations? Try AACCE (Http://www.aacce.org) It looks like the ACFE, only more so. Fill out the form, pay the money and presto! $375 buys certification and one year's dues, $735 buys 3 years. $195 a year thereafter. You can even sign up on-line if you pay by credit card! No documentation is required (though they may ask for some later). The application does not even ask where you got your degree. Here is the disclaimer at the bottom of the application.: "I certify that the above information is true and correct. I may be asked to provide documentation. If I would misrepresent my credentials, refuse to provide documentation at a later time if asked, or allow my membership in the American Academy of Certified Consultants and Experts to lapse, I understand and agree that my Diplomate Status will be revoked and my membership terminated. I affirm that all of the information that I have provided to AACCE is true, correct, and complete and I agree to hold harmless and indemnify the AACCE and its officers, directors, employees, and agents for any misrepresentations of my credentials and for all claims, loss, damage, judgment, or expense. I certify that I have not been convicted of a felony. I have not been disciplined for an ethical violation in the last 10 years and I am not under investigation by any legal or medical authority or licensing board. The American Academy of Certified Consultants and Experts (AACCE) does not endorse, guarantee or warrant the work or opinions of any individual member. Membership does not imply licensing by the organization of a member's qualifications, abilities or expertise. The objective of the AACCE's publications and the activities that it sponsors is for informative and educational purposes. The views expressed by the authors, publishers or presenters are their own views and do not necessarily reflect those of the AACCE. The AACCE does not assume any responsibility or liability for its members or subscriber's efforts to apply or utilize the information, suggestions or recommendations made by the organization, publication resources or activities. Type your name exactly as you want it to appear on your Diploma:" This type of organization provides good reasons to: 1. Encourage AAFS to complete work on its accrediting processfor certifying bodies. 2. Use much caution when mentioning "certification" in any standards documents or published articles. ===== Nothing worthwhile happens until somebody makes it happen. John J. Lentini, johnlentini@yahoo.com Certified Fire Investigator Fellow, American Board of Criminalistics http://www.atslab.com 800-544-5117 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From forens-owner Tue Oct 17 20:15:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26950 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dasmthkhn463.amedd.army.mil (DASMTHKHN463.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL [204.208.124.133]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26945 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by DASMTHKHN463.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:46:46 -0500 Message-ID: <4E0277823564D411905E00A0C9EA331845C629@DASMTHGSH666.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL> From: "Hause, David W LTC GLWACH" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: AACCE "Certification" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:28:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Ah, John, how perceptive. And their Web site has a hot link in the middle of the first page TO the ACFE. And it goes on to other interesting links. Is it possible (shudder) that these are only a new set of buttons on their phone? Is there a pattern here? Dave Hause American Academy of Certified Consultants and Experts 2750 East Sunshine Springfield, MO 65804 Phone: 417.887.2649 | Fax: 417.887.5249 | Toll Free: 800.600.3873 American Association of Integrative Medicine http://www.aaimedicine.com/ 2750 East Sunshine Springfield, MO 65804 (p) 417-881-9995 (f) 417-881-6414 American Psychotherapy Association, Inc. http://www.americanpsychotherapy.com/ Association Headquarters 2750 East Sunshine Springfield, MO 65804 Phone: 417-823-0173 Fax: 417-823-9959 The American Board of Examiners in Crisis Intervention http://www.emotionalfirstaid.com/ Association Headquarters 2750 East Sunshine Springfield, MO 65804 American College of Forensic Examiners 2750 East Sunshine Springfield, MO 65804 (t) 417.881.3818 (f) 417.881.4702 -----Original Message----- From: John Lentini [mailto:johnlentini@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 8:31 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: AACCE "Certification" Does anyone need certification, but want to avoid messy documentation and examinations? Try AACCE (Http://www.aacce.org) It looks like the ACFE, only more so. Fill out the form, pay the money and presto! $375 buys certification and one year's dues, $735 buys 3 years. $195 a year thereafter. You can even sign up on-line if you pay by credit card! No documentation is required (though they may ask for some later). The application does not even ask where you got your degree. Here is the disclaimer at the bottom of the application.: "I certify that the above information is true and correct. I may be asked to provide documentation. If I would misrepresent my credentials, refuse to provide documentation at a later time if asked, or allow my membership in the American Academy of Certified Consultants and Experts to lapse, I understand and agree that my Diplomate Status will be revoked and my membership terminated. I affirm that all of the information that I have provided to AACCE is true, correct, and complete and I agree to hold harmless and indemnify the AACCE and its officers, directors, employees, and agents for any misrepresentations of my credentials and for all claims, loss, damage, judgment, or expense. I certify that I have not been convicted of a felony. I have not been disciplined for an ethical violation in the last 10 years and I am not under investigation by any legal or medical authority or licensing board. The American Academy of Certified Consultants and Experts (AACCE) does not endorse, guarantee or warrant the work or opinions of any individual member. Membership does not imply licensing by the organization of a member's qualifications, abilities or expertise. The objective of the AACCE's publications and the activities that it sponsors is for informative and educational purposes. The views expressed by the authors, publishers or presenters are their own views and do not necessarily reflect those of the AACCE. The AACCE does not assume any responsibility or liability for its members or subscriber's efforts to apply or utilize the information, suggestions or recommendations made by the organization, publication resources or activities. Type your name exactly as you want it to appear on your Diploma:" This type of organization provides good reasons to: 1. Encourage AAFS to complete work on its accrediting processfor certifying bodies. 2. Use much caution when mentioning "certification" in any standards documents or published articles. ===== Nothing worthwhile happens until somebody makes it happen. John J. Lentini, johnlentini@yahoo.com Certified Fire Investigator Fellow, American Board of Criminalistics http://www.atslab.com 800-544-5117 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From forens-owner Wed Oct 18 00:16:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA28752 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28747 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:16:37 -0400 (EDT) From: LEGALEYE1@aol.com Received: from LEGALEYE1@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id y.4f.23398d0 (25098) for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f.23398d0.271e7e04@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:16:04 EDT Subject: Re: AACCE "Certification" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 109 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk In a message dated 10/17/00 5:24:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, John Lentini writes: > Does anyone need certification, but want to avoid > messy documentation and examinations? Try AACCE You know, I think I'm going to apply for certification. I mean, I'm an expert. Well, sort of. I'm a consultant. People may not take my advise but I do give consultation. I have a college education. Oh, yeah. I'm going to get me another professional certificate. I'm a certified drug and alcohol counselor. I have several certificates in wildlife management. I have been certified as a laboratory animal technologist by the American Association of Laboratory Animal Science. I think I would like to be certified as a consultant and expert. My other certifications are legitimate and believe me I earned them. But if I can get certified without all that work and study it would save a lot of time. Anyone have any advise on what kind of expert I should be? Bill From forens-owner Wed Oct 18 03:28:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA00506 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail015.mail.onemain.com (SMTP-OUT001.ONEMAIN.COM [63.208.208.71]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA00501 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28732 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2000 07:28:08 -0000 Received: from 209-165-23.1.lightspeed.net ([209.165.23.1]) (envelope-sender ) by us015.mail.onemain.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2000 07:28:08 -0000 Received: from SCANMAIL by 209-165-23.1.lightspeed.net via smtpd (for lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [63.208.208.82]) with SMTP; 18 Oct 2000 07:25:56 UT Received: FROM co.kern.ca.us BY scanmail.co.kern.ca.us ; Wed Oct 18 00:27:40 2000 -0700 Received: from KERNMAIL-Message_Server by co.kern.ca.us with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:27:20 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:50:47 -0700 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Gretchen.D.Hicks@state.me.us, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Fire Debris Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Gretchen, There is nothing inherently wrong with glass Mason style jars other than the fact that glass is fragile and liable to breakage. Paint cans are generally the preferred container for arson debris. Some cans come with coatings such as teflon that allow for better sealing and do not contribute anything in tems of volatile substances. I have looked at the Kapak arson bags and they appear to be satisfactory as well, just that they may be subject to punctures form certain fire debris. I don't recommend 'seal-a-meal' pouches or bags that haven't been checked for volatile contributions from their media. If the container is sound, and not over-filled with debris, we will place the c-strip inside, incubate overnight and extract the following day. The container should remain air tight throughout the analysisprocess and remain so for extended storage. I feel you should persuade your investigators to rethink their position for the obvious reasons. Glass is breakable, not as resilient, whereas paint cans come with handles that are easier to transport. They don't break and are sufficiently flexible or resilient to moderate temperature changes. As for the "arson" pouches by Kapak, I think they have merit and should not be discounted. The only issue is that they require a heat sealer and might be difficult to handle when full. In addition they are not very puncture resistant, but that may be an asset if you do heated headspace of the debris. Good luck in your efforts! Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us office phone: (661) 868-5659 >>> "Gretchen D. Hicks" 10/16 11:58 AM >>> Again, I have more fire debris questions - Our fire investigators currently use mason jars for evidence collection, and are determined not to change their methods. Are other laboratories accepting fire debris evidence in mason jars? What are the pros and cons of using the jars? For those labs that allow mason jars, do you change containers for your extraction (charcoal strip)? Thanks in advance. Gretchen Hicks From forens-owner Wed Oct 18 09:32:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07499 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m15.boston.juno.com (m15.boston.juno.com [63.211.172.78]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07484 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"pfKP4fM9dHbWyUuR1qetfgpoLYrMf76mjf1OPViYXqW5LdZxOwlKCA=="> Received: (from knarfgerg@juno.com) by m15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FLNT7TXF; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:32:37 EDT To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:36:05 -0700 Subject: blood determination Message-ID: <20001018.063734.-374397.1.knarfgerg@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-7,9-10,12,14,16,18-21,23-28 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Greg R Frank Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I received the following email requesting information on a blood test. She calls it dy-meno or dae-meno benzidine. I would assume she is talking about diaminobenzidine. I could not find any information about this chemical, so I an posting her email to see if anyone can help her. Greg (knarfgerg@juno.com) I am a lawyer in the UK who specialises in cases of wrongful conviction. I am at present working on an Islamic ritual beheading. The only evidence against my client is a 'blood mark' found on his car door. The test used to decide if the mark was blood or not is, I gather, a presumtive test - the Dy-meno (or Dae-meno) benzedine test. It is not clear why the forensic scientist used this test as apparently it is not a test which is used in the UK. However I gather that it has been commonly used in the USA. I also am told that a positive result can also indicate that certain foodstuffs are present - including beetroot and horseradish. I am trying at the moment to find someone who is familiar with this test and who can prehaps tell me what other types of foodstuffs give a similar result. If you could give me some help I woudl be incredibly grateful. Regards Susannah Arthur (susannah.arthur@gabb.co.uk) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From forens-owner Wed Oct 18 22:14:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22555 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.i2020.net (mail.i2020.net [204.77.129.19]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22550 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from i2020.net ([204.232.1.95]) by mail.i2020.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 153-54218U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:13:40 -0400 Message-ID: <39EE5855.4316D9F@i2020.net> Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:11:33 -0400 From: Sheila Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens-l Subject: Another "Off List" Inquiry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This inquiry comes from a criminal justice researcher. I'll forward any replies to her. I'm working with a reporter on a story concerning destroyed or missing evidence. So we need some more sources for the story. I'm very familiar with: Ewing, Cress, Fye, (MI) and Constant, Luster (Ohio). Do you know of any more? Could you post a memo? Thanks all. Sheila Berry -- Sheila Martin Berry E-mail: dberry@i2020.net Web Sites: http://spiritlink.com/ http://truthinjustice.org/ "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein From forens-owner Thu Oct 19 08:29:00 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27543 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27538 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:28:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Salary info request (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply to EarlNMeyer@aol.com, not to the list owner ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:47:16 EDT From: EarlNMeyer@aol.com To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Salary info request I would like the following info if available: Job Description and Salary range for the following two jobs; 1) Crime lab Office Manager 2) LIMS Data base administrator Include your agency name. Please respond off list to EarlNMeyer@aol.com Thank you! From forens-owner Thu Oct 19 10:49:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29556 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from batch15.uni-muenster.de (BATCH15.UNI-MUENSTER.DE [128.176.188.113]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29551 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:49:10 -0400 (EDT) From: hohoff@uni-muenster.de Received: from uni-muenster.de (RAS24-102.UNI-MUENSTER.DE [128.176.20.103]) by batch15.uni-muenster.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B771070 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:48:59 +0200 (MES) Message-ID: <39EF09BA.708F4A7A@uni-muenster.de> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:48:26 +0200 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: SGM plus allele cocktail needed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Our lab in some cases of parentage testing uses in addition to the Profiler kit the SGM plus kit from Applied Biosystems. This imbalance between samples and allele cocktail to be run in parallel lead to the consumption of the allele cocktail supplied with the SGM plus kit (which is of course not stable indefinitely). We asked the German branch of Applied Biosystems to sell us a new tube with the SGM plus allele cocktail but they responded that they would not sell a single tube with the allele cocktail. They would like to sell a new complete kit ... My question is now if someone is willing to sell a tube with the SGM plus allele cocktail to us or to change a tube with the SGM plus allele cocktail versus a tube with the Profiler allele cocktail (we now have 4 tubes that have not been opened yet). Best regards Carsten Hohoff *************************************** Carsten Hohoff, PhD Dept Legal Medicine - DNA lab - Muenster University Germany *************************************** From forens-owner Thu Oct 19 11:29:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00204 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m15.boston.juno.com (m15.boston.juno.com [63.211.172.78]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00199 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"pfKP4fM9dHbWyUuR1qetfgdPahK+V/lcQxPCx7F/dl9qa8h9R0Qpzg=="> Received: (from knarfgerg@juno.com) by m15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FLRL8G48; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:28:22 EDT To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:33:18 -0700 Subject: blood determination Message-ID: <20001019.083319.-288667.0.knarfgerg@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,7-8,10-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Greg R Frank Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I would like to contact anyone whose lab has undergone an ASCLD/LAB accreditation recently. If you have been accredited, what is your lab's policy on: 1. What tests are needed to make a conclusion that a stain is blood? 2. What tests are needed to make a conclusion that a stain is human blood? 3. Do your trace/micro personnel use a different set of tests to determine if a stain is blood than those used by you bio/dna personnel? Thank you in advance for your attention. Greg Frank knarfgerg@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From forens-owner Thu Oct 19 14:21:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02279 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02274 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:21:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: N2O (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:28:18 -0700 From: "Lee, Chien-Hsing K." To: "'owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: N2O Hi List Members, How is everyone analyzing N2O? Other than FT-IR with gas cell are you using any other analytical methods/instruments? Thanks, Ken From forens-owner Thu Oct 19 15:09:53 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02991 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.unioncountynj.org (unioncountynj.org [207.122.80.3]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02981; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unioncountynj.org ([207.122.80.17]) by home.unioncountynj.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-63061U900L100S0V35) with ESMTP id org; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:22:09 -0400 Message-ID: <39EF718F.74074C5F@unioncountynj.org> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:11:27 -0700 From: ucpolab@unioncountynj.org (Union County Prosecutor's Lab) Reply-To: ucpolab@unioncountynj.org Organization: Union County Prosecutor's Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Basten CC: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: N2O (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Ken, We perform GC/MS on the cylinders. Simple "headspace injection at ambient temperature. Hope this helps. Frank Garland Union County Prosecutor's Lab 300 North Ave E. Westfield NJ 07090 Basten wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:28:18 -0700 > From: "Lee, Chien-Hsing K." > To: "'owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" > Subject: N2O > > Hi List Members, > > How is everyone analyzing N2O? > Other than FT-IR with gas cell > are you using any other analytical > methods/instruments? > > Thanks, > Ken From forens-owner Thu Oct 19 15:23:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03246 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kscxchg2.esr.cri.nz (gatekeeper.esr.cri.nz [203.97.15.33]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03241 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200010191923.PAA03241@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu> Received: from gatekeeper.esr.cri.nz (202.50.148.6 [202.50.148.6]) by kscxchg2.esr.cri.nz with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 415RY514; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:29:02 +1300 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:27:00 +1300 From: "Elliot, Douglas" Subject: blood determination To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk We have recently had this discussion in the lab regarding ASCLD requirements and we now include in our statements something like "stains which have the appearance of blood and give positive results in chemical tests for blood are described as blood". Previously the analysts' experience/training allowed them to call blood as blood with a clear visual determination (including if required a microscopic examination) and KM/ Sangur stick testing. Dilute/ unclear/ aged/ brown etc etc stains which gave KM results would be referred to as possible bloodstains. This has caused a bit of controversy; some points of contention - what do you do when victim's clothing, heavily blood stained, is examined (ie of course it is blood)? How do you interpret blood spatter when you can't actually call it blood? How do you assess analyst skills when anyone can wield a Sangur stick and end up with the same reportable result? It may not be useful or feasible to send every bit of blood over for DNA profiling to allow you to call something as blood. And there's another issue. A "human DNA present" result from a brown stain doesn't make it blood or even human blood. Other tissue could be giving you the result. But this seems to be the interpretation of the ASCLD ruling. So do we need to go back to an Ouchterlony or similar determination to get a positive call for blood? At present the initial examiners (case managers in our nomenclature) do the calling for blood/ possible blood/ etc in statement or in court; the DNA analysts will report human DNA in the sample given to them for profiling, which is described to them as blood by the case managers. It does seem to be working. Douglas Elliot ESR, Auckland, New Zealand. From forens-owner Thu Oct 19 17:28:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04605 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f158.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.158]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04600 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:28:22 -0700 Received: from 64.217.215.225 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:28:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.217.215.225] From: "John Lyons" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: DNA Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:28:22 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2000 21:28:22.0836 (UTC) FILETIME=[8220EF40:01C03A13] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ======================= TODAY IN HEALTH HISTORY ======================= The Structure Of DNA Two years of collaboration between James Watson and Francis Crick culminated in the creation in 1953 of a model of the molecular structure of DNA. The Watson-Crick model was used to explain how living cells reproduce, as well as how changes in evolution and gene mutations occur. The two Cambridge University researchers created a new science: molecular biology. To back their studies, they relied on studies of DNA that were being done at King's College by Maurice Wilkins and Rosalind Franklin. In 1961, Crick explained how ribonucleic acid, or RNA, was as important to the process of genetic replication as DNA. In recognition of their research, Crick, Watson and Wilkins were awarded the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine on this date in 1962. Copyright InteliHealth, Inc., 2000. All rights reserved. John B. Lyons Criminal Investigator County Attorney's Office Johnson County, TX johnblyons@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Fri Oct 20 04:07:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA09830 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 04:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f161.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.161]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09825 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 04:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:07:09 -0700 Received: from 212.179.130.143 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:07:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [212.179.130.143] From: "NAYEDET MAZAP" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BPA expert E-mail needed Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:07:09 IST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2000 08:07:09.0482 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE9700A0:01C03A6C] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Dear list members. I'm looking for the E-mail addresses of Mr. Stuart H. James, an author of "Interpretation of BloodStain Evidence at Crimme Scenes". thanks. Superintendent Arie Moshe, Serious Crime Scene Mobile Lab. Division of Identification,Israel National Police. mazap_n_m@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Fri Oct 20 09:31:47 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12657 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dasmthkhn459.amedd.army.mil (DASMTHKHN459.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL [204.208.124.132]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12651 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by DASMTHKHN459.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:23:42 -0500 Message-ID: <4E0277823564D411905E00A0C9EA331845C635@DASMTHGSH666.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL> From: "Hause, David W LTC GLWACH" To: "'NAYEDET MAZAP'" , forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: BPA expert E-mail needed Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:30:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk See http://www.bloodevidence.com/ James & Associates, Forensic Consultants, Inc. 4800 SW 64th Avenue Suite 107 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33314 Phone: (954) 321-8700 Fax: (954) 321-8994 E-mail: JamesForen@aol.com Dave Hause -----Original Message----- From: NAYEDET MAZAP [mailto:mazap_n_m@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 5:07 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BPA expert E-mail needed Dear list members. I'm looking for the E-mail addresses of Mr. Stuart H. James, an author of "Interpretation of BloodStain Evidence at Crimme Scenes". thanks. Superintendent Arie Moshe, Serious Crime Scene Mobile Lab. Division of Identification,Israel National Police. mazap_n_m@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From forens-owner Sun Oct 22 22:24:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18071 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r17.mail.aol.com (imo-r17.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.71]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18066 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:24:07 -0400 (EDT) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-r17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id y.fb.cade43f (4237); Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:23:29 EDT Subject: No Subject To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu, Cfwhiteh@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 66 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk From forens-owner Sun Oct 22 22:25:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18132 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18127 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:25:00 -0400 (EDT) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.31.) id y.38.cf94840 (4237); Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38.cf94840.2724fb59@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:24:25 EDT Subject: No Subject To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu, Cfwhiteh@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 66 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Ex-FBI Agent Accused of Being Mob MemberThere was a mole in the Boston office since 1960 feeding the Angiulo Brothers information. Jerry (who did time) and Frank were the local Godfathers on Winter Hill. I lived on the bottom of the hill for 30 years. The feds put an Audibon Society "birdhouse" across the street from their house. One operation the mob didn't know about was the bugging of all of the pay phones in the North End by Bobby Kennedy. This was set up in 1962 while I was in the Army, with the permission of Mayor Collins, who had to use a wheelchair. They had a battery of tape recorders on the 10th floor of the Federal Building. frog Crime, Justice, Safety: 8 Channels -- 26 Programs NEWSCENTER CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM SAFETY CENTER CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROFESSIONALS CRIME SOLVERS RESOURCE CENTER VIDEO CENTER MEDIA AND ENTERTAINMENT Free E-mail Alert Live Police Scanners Forums Search My APB About APB Contact APB Newsletters Downloads APBNEWS.COM > NEWSCENTER > BREAKING NEWS > STORY Ex-FBI Agent Accused of Being Mob Member Allegedly Tipped Off Gangland Leaders to Investigations Oct. 12, 2000 By Seamus McGraw Related Document: Read the indictment Related Stories: Skeletal Remains Dub From Mob 'Dumping Ground' Three Bodies Found in Mob 'Dumping Ground' Prosecutors Say Ex-FBI Agent Switched Sides BOSTON (APBnews.com) -- For more than a decade, former FBI agent John J. Connolly was considered one of the toughest organized-crime fighters in this city, authorities said. But all the while, he was secretly in the pocket of the mob, authorities charge. According to a nine-count federal indictment handed down Wednesday, the veteran agent accepted bribes from mobsters in exchange for information, including the names of three informants who later turned up dead. The indictment is the second against the former federal agent, who authorities allege was actually a member of the notorious Winter Hill Gang, one of Boston's most powerful underworld organizations, said Samantha Martin, spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney's office in Boston. But the superseding indictment goes far beyond the original charges leveled against Connolly last December, she said. A 'partner in crime' The new indictment, the product of a two-year investigation by a federal task force, alleges that Connolly used his position as a trusted FBI agent to ferret out information about sensitive investigations targeting reputed mob bosses James "Whitey" Bulger and Stephen "The Rifleman" Flemmi. Connolly then handed that information over to the two men, in effect acting as a full-fledged partner in their criminal enterprise, federal prosecutors say. In exchange, authorities said, Connolly was paid handsomely. In one instance, the mobsters gave the federal agent a diamond ring worth $50,000, authorities said. Connolly's attorney, R. Robert Popeo, could not immediately be reached for comment. Blood money? The payoffs turned out to be blood money in some cases, authorities allege. The death of Boston nightclub owner and bookmaker Richard Castucci is a case in point, authorities allege. In 1976, two members of the Winter Hill mob, Joseph McDonald and James Sims, were on the lam from authorities and needed a place to hide, the indictment claims. The mob bosses turned to Castucci, who found the two men an apartment in New York City's Greenwich Village. What Bulger and Flemmi did not know, however, was that Castucci, in addition to running numbers and a nightclub, also was an FBI informant, the indictment alleges. But the mobsters soon found out about Castucci's sideline through Connolly, the indictment continues. "On or about Dec. 29, 1976, as a result of being informed of Castucci's relationship with the FBI, members of the Winter Hill Gang murdered Richard Castucci," the indictment charges. Country club slaying In 1982, the indictment alleges, Connolly again handed the mobsters information that led to the death of an informant. According to the indictment, Brian Halloran offered federal agents the information they needed to solve the mob-related slaying of Roger Wheeler, who was gunned down in the parking lot of a Tulsa, Okla., country club. Halloran fingered Bulger, Flemmi and two other members of the Winter Hill Gang in the slaying, according to the indictment. The mobsters allegedly wanted Wheeler dead because he threatened their plans to penetrate the lucrative jai alai industry, authorities said. Connolly told Bulger and Flemmi about Halloran's cooperation with the feds, and a short time later, Halloran was dead, killed "in order to prevent [his] further cooperation and testimony," the indictment alleges. Allegedly lied to bosses A few months later, Connolly learned that investigators were seeking another man, John Callahan, as a witness in the Wheeler slaying, authorities allege. That information also was allegedly handed over by Connolly to Bulger and Flemmi. Like Halloran and Castucci, Callahan was also found slain, allegedly by members of the Winter Hill mob. Not all of the information Connolly allegedly provided to the mobsters cost lives, the indictment says. Some of it simply cost investigators time and money, authorities contend. The indictment accuses Connolly of tipping off Flemmi and Bulger to wiretaps and other aspects of the federal initiatives against them, and of lying to his superiors to throw them off the track of the Winter Hill Gang and to cover his own involvement with the mob. Connolly is charged with bribery, racketeering and obstruction of justice. He remains free on bail, authorities said. Seamus McGraw is an APBnews.com staff writer (seamus.mcgraw@apbnews.com). From forens-owner Tue Oct 24 11:31:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09946 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web2007.mail.yahoo.com (web2007.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.238]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09941 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20001024153137.95930.qmail@web2007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.32.133.5] by web2007.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:31:37 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Claire Donaghey Subject: Job Opening To: Forensic Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk The DuPage County Sheriff's Crime Laboratory, located in Wheaton, Illinois(34 miles west of Chicago), is currently seeking to fill the position of Forensic Drug Chemist. Duties include analyzing items submitted to the lab that are suspected of containing controlled substances or alcohol, and testifying to the results of analysis. Salary is commensurate with experience. Each applicant must possess a baccalaureate degree in a natural science from an accredited college or university. Each applicant must be court qualified. A minimum of two years experience analyzing controlled substances in an ASCLD/LAB accredited crime laboratory is preferred. For further information please contact: Carina Thomas Forensic Chemistry Supervisor 501 N. County Farm Road Wheaton, IL 60187 Telephone: (630)682-7198 Fax: (630)682-7908 email: cthomas@dupageco.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From forens-owner Tue Oct 24 14:06:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12316 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xena.jjay.cuny.edu (xena.jjay.cuny.edu [198.83.29.82]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12311 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:06:26 -0400 (EDT) From: kmcdonal@jjay.cuny.edu Received: from xena.jjay.cuny.edu (xena.jjay.cuny.edu [198.83.29.82]) by xena.jjay.cuny.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.01.27.13.16.p5) with SMTP id <0G2Y0080N51OP6@xena.jjay.cuny.edu> for forens@statgen.ncsu.edu; Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: forensic artists To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <494509528.972410892027.JavaMail.root@xena.jjay.cuny.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun(TM) Web Access 1.2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Could anyone send me contact information on people working in the field of forensic portraiture? I have a friend interested in the field. Thank you, Kristin McDonald kmcdonal@jjay.cuny.edu From forens-owner Wed Oct 25 12:28:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26343 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chel.surnet.ru (root@chel.surnet.ru [195.54.2.5]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26338 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chel.surnet.ru (659999-14.dialup.surnet.ru [212.57.156.14]) by chel.surnet.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10690 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:28:14 +0600 (ESS) Message-ID: <39F719E2.45E90A57@chel.surnet.ru> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:35:30 +0500 From: Vladimir Pouchkarev X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: plant DNA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Dear forens-list members, Would you inform me about use of plant DNA tests for identification of an origin of raw material for drug production (marihuana)? Sincerely, Vladimir Pouchkarev (formed@chel.surnet.ru) Genetic laboratory Regional forensic medicine bureau Chelyabinsk Russia From forens-owner Wed Oct 25 12:40:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26549 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doaisd01001.state.mt.us (doaisd01001.state.mt.us [161.7.1.78]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26544 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by doaisd01001 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:38:58 -0600 Message-ID: <12E1430F942ED411BBB000508BADC8B7612310@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Long, Julie" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: job announcement Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:38:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk The Montana Division of Forensic Sciences is seeking applicants for the position of Forensic DNA Analyst/CODIS Administrator. Qualifications include a BA/BS degree in biology, molecular biology, chemistry, biochemistry, forensic science or closely related field and successful completion of coursework or training covering statistics and population genetics as it applies to forensic DNA. Primary duties include analyzing convicted offender samples using PCR analyses of STRs by ABI 310 capillary electrophoresis, maintaining the State DNA database, analysis of casework samples and testifying in court as an expert witness. Salary: $35,036-$42,833. Application deadline: November 30, 2000 For complete job announcement visit the Montana website at www.state.mt.us Any questions or need more information contact: Julie Long Serology/DNA Supervisor 406 329-1132 jlong@state.mt.us From forens-owner Wed Oct 25 16:13:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29231 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f107.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.107]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29226 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:12:32 -0700 Received: from 64.217.215.225 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:12:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.217.215.225] From: "John Lyons" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Crime Lab Chemist Admits to Cutting Corners Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:12:31 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_5493_3af4_cc8" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2000 20:12:32.0279 (UTC) FILETIME=[E8438A70:01C03EBF] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_5493_3af4_cc8 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------=_NextPart_000_5493_3af4_cc8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 >From johnblyons@hotmail.com Wed Oct 25 12:59:44 2000 Received: from [63.94.5.37] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBBC085E300B2D820F3A63F5E052507B30; Wed Oct 25 12:56:20 2000 Received: from exchangeserver.praetoriangroup.com (208.30.191.211 [208.30.191.211]) by Exchange00.ROME.praetoriangroup.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id VH3Z0RK7; Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:49:35 -0700 Content-type: text/html Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:04:25 -0800 From: johnblyons@hotmail.com Subject: PoliceOne.com To: johnblyons@hotmail.com PoliceOne.com john has sent you a News Story from the PoliceOne daily News.
Message:
Crime lab chemist admits to cutting corners
by:
Channel: Criminal Incidents

 (CHARLESTON, W.Va.) -- The state police chemist blamed for last month's shutdown of the crime lab's drug section was examining marijuana in 1998 when he skipped a test that is now considered "unnecessary and cumbersome," a federal judge heard Oct. 18.

Todd Owen McDaniel sought to explain his conduct to U.S. District Judge John T. Copenhaver Jr. while pleading guilty to a mail fraud charge.

McDaniel, 31, admitted that he sent out a report in the 1998 case that falsely implied that he conducted all three tests then required for marijuana evidence.

"I knew when I did it that it was wrong," McDaniel said, his voice cracking.

McDaniel did not say why he failed to perform the test, called Thin Layer Chromatography. But the civilian chemist did say that the test has since been phased out because it "became unnecessary and cumbersome."

That prompted Copenhaver to quiz McDaniel and prosecutor Michael O. Callaghan about the exact nature of McDaniel's crime. Given that the skipped test is no longer required, Copenhaver asked Callaghan to "focus for a moment on the materiality of the breach."

Callaghan, chief of the U.S. Attorney's criminal division, said McDaniel schemed "to defraud the state of West Virginia and its citizens of his loyal, honest and faithful services" by cutting corners and violating lab policy.

The chemist failed to perform the marijuana test when it was required in at least one other instance, Callaghan said. He also skipped a test, still required, on suspected crack cocaine evidence in at least five instances.

"Mr. McDaniel knew those requirements, he knew what they were," Callaghan said. "We prosecutors rely on the word of the chemists that they have conducted the necessary tests. We prosecutors surely don't know when shortcuts have been taken."

McDaniel's plea hearing shed some light on why the Drug Identification Section was closed last month. The shutdown disrupted both federal and state drug prosecutions throughout West Virginia. The state police and the FBI have since been separately investigating the section's work.

Callaghan said McDaniel's work fell under scrutiny in early September. A colleague noticed that McDaniel had attached the wrong pages to a series of lab reports on crack cocaine evidence. McDaniel now admits that he purposely added those pages, to cover up the fact that he had failed to perform one of the necessary tests in those cases.

Those false lab reports were never mailed, and the evidence in those five cases was retested, Callaghan said.

McDaniel was placed on paid leave following the discovery. The section's four other chemists, three troopers and another civilian, were also placed on paid leave when the section was closed.

A state police spokesman was unavailable for comment Wednesday about the current status of McDaniel, a chemist at the lab since 1993. Neither the state police nor the FBI have comments about the findings, if any, of their parallel investigations.

McDaniel, of Charleston, remains free on an unsecured bond pending a Jan. 4 sentencing. He potentially faces a prison sentence, a fine and an order of restitution.

(iSyndicate; The Charleston Gazette; Oct. 19, 2000) Terms and Conditions: Copyright(c) 2000 LEXIS-NEXIS, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights Reserved.



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------=_NextPart_000_5493_3af4_cc8-- From forens-owner Thu Oct 26 12:09:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10671 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mr.just.fgov.be (mr.just.fgov.be [194.7.188.123]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10666 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sweeper.just.fgov.be [194.7.188.125] by mr.just.fgov.be with esmtp id 13orQ4-0006hP-00; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:06:28 +0200 Received: from badbl00x.just.fgov.be (unverified) by sweeper.just.fgov.be (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:08:58 +0200 Received: from badbl00x.just.fgov.be (BADBL00X [192.32.2.109]) by badbl00x.just.fgov.be with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id V4KA58PG; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:12:56 +0200 Received: FROM badbl01x.just.fgov.be BY badbl00x.just.fgov.be ; Thu Oct 26 16:12:55 2000 +0200 Received: from badbl01x.just.fgov.be (BADBL01X [192.32.2.126]) by badbl01x.just.fgov.be with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id VT3GXAYN; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:08:34 +0200 Received: FROM just.fgov.be BY badbl01x.just.fgov.be ; Thu Oct 26 16:08:32 2000 +0200 Message-Id: <39F83D59.D950CCB@just.fgov.be> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:19:05 +0200 From: "Van Renterghem, Pierre" Organization: National Institute of Criminalistics and Criminology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vladimir Pouchkarev Cc: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: plant DNA References: <39F719E2.45E90A57@chel.surnet.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I don't have any experience on this matter, but you could look at the following paper: Linacre, A and Thorpe, J Detection and identification of Cannabis by DNA Forensic Science Int. 91(1998) 71-76 Pierre Pierre Van Renterghem Laboratory for Genetic Identification National Institute of Criminalistics and Criminology Belgium Vladimir Pouchkarev wrote: > Dear forens-list members, > Would you inform me about use of plant DNA tests > for identification of an origin of raw material for drug > production (marihuana)? > Sincerely, > Vladimir Pouchkarev > (formed@chel.surnet.ru) > Genetic laboratory > Regional forensic medicine bureau > Chelyabinsk > Russia From forens-owner Thu Oct 26 16:36:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13860 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13855 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:36:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Branislava Savic" ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:43:30 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Branislava Savic" ] >From forens-owner Thu Oct 26 15:43:29 2000 Received: from smtp.EUnet.yu (smtp.EUnet.yu [194.247.192.50]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13137 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brana (P-3.107.EUnet.yu [213.240.3.107]) by smtp.EUnet.yu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA09830 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:42:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <004501c03f86$08b94120$6403f0d5@s> From: "Branislava Savic" To: Subject: case Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:49:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C03F96.A918E840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C03F96.A918E840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear colleagues! I must ask for help concerning one autopsy case: a 14-year-old boy, = according to anamnestic data from his father, he has been training = football and previously was completely healthy. On 26th March 2000 he = was at school during the morning hours, and after his lessons he went = with his friends to the football playground in order to play a match. It = was an ordinary match without any special physical or psychical efforts. = A few minutes before the end of the match the coach changed him with one = other player, he went out from the playground, and few moments after = that he suddenly collapsed and fell down. He was urgently transported to = the hospital, where resuscitative measures were unsuccessfully applied, = and the death was diagnosed. The autopsy examination revealed a 180 cm = long, physically well-developed body, with small skin abrasion on the = anterior side of the left knee and several injection marks in the both = cubital regions. The internal findings were following: general tissue = congestion, brain edema (weight 1650 g), hyperplastic tonsils but = without sings of acute inflammation, small lung hemorrhages (weight of = the right and left lung was 400 and 350 g respectively), the diameter of = the heart was 14x13 cm, weight 400 g, the thickness of the left = ventricle up to 19 mm, and right up to 4 mm; tricuspid ostium 12 cm, = mitral 9 cm, aortic 5.5 cm and pulmonary artery 4.5 cm; no signs of = valvular, vascular and heart muscle lesions were discovered; abdominal = organs were completely normal; no internal injuries of soft tissues or = bones were found.=20 The microscopical findings were following: general tissue congestion; = microscopical perivascular brain hemorrhages and slight endothelial = edema of the small blood vessels; in the myocardium slight interstitial = edema, scarce small interstitial hemorrhages, hypertrophy of some = myocytes, in the papillary muscle some myocytes showed signs of = eosinophilia, attenuation, undulation and hypercontraction bands in the = subendothelial layer; in the lungs signs of partial acute emphysema, = marked capillary congestion with alveolar hemorrhages; palatinal tonsils = with signs of chronic inflammation; small hemorrhages in the thymus. No = special examination of the heart conducting system was performed.=20 The toxicological findings were following: diazepam 0.239 ?g/ml in the = blood and 0,572 ?g/ml in the urine; alcohol 13.03 mmol/l (0,60 ?) in the = blood, 6.51 mmol/l (0,30 ?) in the urine, and 4.99 mmol/l (0,23 ?) in = the stomach content. The boy's father could not explain the presence of = alcohol and diazepam, because he firmly denied previous alcohol and drug = abuse.=20 On the basis of all collected data it is reasonably to conclude that the = boy died due to sudden cardiac arrhythmia or cardiac arrest, but I = wonder why, since the boy was previously healthy. I think that the = slight left ventricular hypertrophy may be explained as a physiological = consequence of his physical training. I am especially interested in the = possible effects of alcohol and diazepam, and concerning this I talked = to one pharmacologist who could not give me any explanation. On the = other side, in the Medline I found some titles but I was not able to get = neither full texts nor abstracts, e.g.=20 -No authors listed: Letter: Cardiac arrest with diazepam. J Oral Surg = 1974; 32(11):807-8.=20 -El-Guindy MK. Diazepam and sudden death. J Egypt Med Assoc 1971; = 54(8):575-8.=20 -Nevins MA. Ventricular arrhythmias and diazepam. JAMA 1971; 215(4):643. -No authors listed. Allergy to diazepam (letter). Br Med J 1977; = 1(6056):287. -Patch VD. Letter: The dangers of diazepam, a street drug. N Engl J Med = 1974; 290(14): 807. -Lander R, Elenbaas J. Adverse reactions with diazepam. Drug Intell Clin = Pharm 1983; 17(9):630-1.=20 -No authors listed. Unexpected responses following diazepam. N Y State J = Med 1971; 71(5):578-80.=20 -Nelson I. Unexpected allergic reaction to diazepam. SAAD Dig 1983; = 5(6):158. -Jokl E, McClellan JT. Sudden death in sports. Med Welt 1971; = 20(8):296-9.=20 -Farneti A, Mangili F. Sudden death in childhood. Minerva Medicoleg = 1967; 87(2):159/73.=20 I would be very grateful for all information and your own experiences in = relation to some similar cases. Thank you very much in advance! Slobodan Savic MD, forensic pathologist Belgrade, Yugoslavia=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C03F96.A918E840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear colleagues!

I must ask for help concerning one autopsy case: a = 14-year-old=20 boy, according to anamnestic data from his father, he has been training = football=20 and previously was completely healthy. On 26th = March=20 2000 he was at school during the morning hours, and after his lessons he = went=20 with his friends to the football playground in order to play a match. It = was an=20 ordinary match without any special physical or psychical efforts. A few = minutes=20 before the end of the match the coach changed him with one other player, = he went=20 out from the playground, and few moments after that he suddenly = collapsed and=20 fell down. He was urgently transported to the hospital, where = resuscitative=20 measures were unsuccessfully applied, and the death was diagnosed. The = autopsy=20 examination revealed a 180 cm long, physically well-developed body, with = small=20 skin abrasion on the anterior side of the left knee and several = injection marks=20 in the both cubital regions. The internal findings were following: = general=20 tissue congestion, brain edema (weight 1650 g), hyperplastic tonsils but = without=20 sings of acute inflammation, small lung hemorrhages (weight of the right = and=20 left lung was 400 and 350 g respectively), the diameter of the heart was = 14x13=20 cm, weight 400 g, the thickness of the left ventricle up to 19 mm, and = right up=20 to 4 mm; tricuspid ostium 12 cm, mitral 9 cm, aortic 5.5 cm and = pulmonary artery=20 4.5 cm; no signs of valvular, vascular and heart muscle lesions were = discovered;=20 abdominal organs were completely normal; no internal injuries of soft = tissues or=20 bones were found.

The microscopical findings were following: general = tissue=20 congestion; microscopical perivascular brain hemorrhages and slight = endothelial=20 edema of the small blood vessels; in the myocardium slight interstitial = edema,=20 scarce small interstitial hemorrhages, hypertrophy of some myocytes, in = the=20 papillary muscle some myocytes showed signs of eosinophilia, = attenuation,=20 undulation and hypercontraction bands in the subendothelial layer; in = the lungs=20 signs of partial acute emphysema, marked capillary congestion with = alveolar=20 hemorrhages; palatinal tonsils with signs of chronic inflammation; small = hemorrhages in the thymus. No special examination of the heart = conducting system=20 was performed.

The toxicological findings were following: diazepam = 0.239 μg/ml=20 in the blood and 0,572 μg/ml in the urine; alcohol 13.03 mmol/l = (0,60 ‰) in the=20 blood, 6.51 mmol/l (0,30 ‰) in the urine, and 4.99 mmol/l (0,23 = ‰) in the=20 stomach content. The boy's father could not explain the presence of = alcohol and=20 diazepam, because he firmly denied previous alcohol and drug abuse.

On the basis of all collected data it is reasonably = to conclude=20 that the boy died due to sudden cardiac arrhythmia or cardiac arrest, = but I=20 wonder why, since the boy was previously healthy. I think that the = slight left=20 ventricular hypertrophy may be explained as a physiological consequence = of his=20 physical training. I am especially interested in the possible effects of = alcohol=20 and diazepam, and concerning this I talked to one pharmacologist who = could not=20 give me any explanation. On the other side, in the Medline I found some = titles=20 but I was not able to get neither full texts nor abstracts, e.g.

-No authors listed: Letter: Cardiac arrest with = diazepam. J=20 Oral Surg 1974; 32(11):807-8.

-El-Guindy MK. Diazepam and sudden death. J Egypt Med = Assoc=20 1971; 54(8):575-8.

-Nevins MA. Ventricular arrhythmias and diazepam. = JAMA 1971;=20 215(4):643.

-No authors listed. Allergy to diazepam = (letter). Br Med=20 J 1977; 1(6056):287.

-Patch VD. Letter: The dangers of diazepam, a street = drug. N=20 Engl J Med 1974; 290(14): 807.

-Lander R, Elenbaas J. Adverse reactions with = diazepam. Drug=20 Intell Clin Pharm 1983; 17(9):630-1.

-No authors listed. Unexpected responses following = diazepam. N=20 Y State J Med 1971; 71(5):578-80.

-Nelson I. Unexpected allergic reaction to diazepam. = SAAD Dig=20 1983; 5(6):158.

-Jokl E, McClellan JT. Sudden death in sports. Med = Welt 1971;=20 20(8):296-9.

-Farneti A, Mangili F. Sudden death in childhood. = Minerva=20 Medicoleg 1967; 87(2):159/73.

I would be very grateful for all information and your = own=20 experiences in relation to some similar cases. Thank you very much in=20 advance!

Slobodan Savic MD, forensic pathologist

Belgrade, Yugoslavia

------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C03F96.A918E840-- From forens-owner Thu Oct 26 22:14:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17458 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.arnet.com.ar (host000012.arnet.net.ar [200.45.0.12] (may be forged)) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA17453 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28938 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2000 02:14:09 -0000 Received: ThePolice Version 0.02 by GCM Received: AntiBombing Version 0.08 by GCM Received: from host000004.arnet.net.ar (HELO mail1.arnet.com.ar) (200.45.0.4) by host000012.arnet.net.ar with SMTP; 27 Oct 2000 02:14:09 -0000 Received: from fito ([200.45.59.88]) by mail1.arnet.com.ar with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:14:06 -0300 Message-ID: <004b01c03fbc$9f732960$6b3b2dc8@fito> From: "Adolfo E. Scatena" To: "forens" Subject: About bruises date. Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:20:43 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01C03FA3.5CE981C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C03FA3.5CE981C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for an acurate description of the evolution of bruises day = by day, in order to be able to figure out the date of production. Is = there anybody that can helpt me? Dr Adolfo Scatena Medico Forense, 2=AA circunscripcion judicial Prov de Rio Negro Gral. Roca, Rio Negro=20 ARGENTINA ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C03FA3.5CE981C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am looking for an acurate description of the evolution of bruises = day by=20 day, in order to be able to figure out the date of production. Is there = anybody=20 that can helpt me?
 
Dr Adolfo Scatena
Medico Forense, 2=AA circunscripcion judicial = Prov de=20 Rio Negro
Gral. Roca, Rio Negro
ARGENTINA
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C03FA3.5CE981C0-- From forens-owner Thu Oct 26 22:31:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17665 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.cs.nsw.gov.au (gw1.cs.nsw.gov.au [152.76.0.130]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17660 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:31:14 -0400 (EDT) From: jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au Received: from funnelweb.cs.nsw.gov.au ([152.76.2.177]) by gw1.gw.cs.nsw.gov.au with ESMTP id <115202>; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:36:35 +1000 Received: from iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au ([152.76.123.2]) by funnelweb.cs.nsw.gov.au (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with ESMTP id au for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:30:35 +1100 Received: from Spooler by iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au (Mercury/32 v2.16); 27 Oct 00 13:29:05 +1000 Received: from spooler by iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au (Mercury/32 v2.16); 27 Oct 00 13:28:39 +1000 Received: from joduflou.iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au (152.76.123.3) by iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au (Mercury/32 v2.16) with ESMTP; 27 Oct 00 13:28:29 +1000 To: forens@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: About bruises date. In-reply-to: <004b01c03fbc$9f732960$6b3b2dc8@fito> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Message-ID: <36E780D5039F@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:36:34 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu id WAA17661 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk On 27 Oct 00, at 12:30, Adolfo E. Scatena wrote: > I am looking for an acurate description of the evolution of bruises > day by day, in order to be able to figure out the date of production. > Is there anybody that can helpt me? > > Dr Adolfo Scatena > Medico Forense, 2ª circunscripcion judicial Prov de Rio Negro > Gral. Roca, Rio Negro > ARGENTINA > Oh dear....... I suspect that if anyone answers that they can accurately tell you the age of a bruise based on its appearance, they need to have some serious re-education. Can I recommend that anyone who believes they can age bruises accurately volunteer themselves for some blunt force injuries of varying magnitude. They can then observe the diversity of responses of their body over the next week or two! Regards, Jo Duflou NSW Institute of Forensic Medicine (email: jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au) From forens-owner Fri Oct 27 08:48:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23050 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23045 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22298; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:45:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Oliver To: "Adolfo E. Scatena" cc: forens Subject: Re: About bruises date. In-Reply-To: <004b01c03fbc$9f732960$6b3b2dc8@fito> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk The consensus among my colleagues, and certainly my experience is that judging the date of a bruise in any terms other than "recent," "moderate," or "old" is pretty useless. The variables which affect the visual appearance of ageging bruises are so many and so interactive that any application of a time to an individual case is pretty baseless. That being said, because we are really talking about recognized progressions which basically have a really wide standard deviation in terms of appearance, it *is* possible to make some statements about whether or not the bruise is consistent with some story in which the claims and the bruise are way out of line. The only other use I have found is in child abuse where there are multiple contusions and while you can't say exactly when most occurred, you *can* say they occurred at different times. The underlying assumption is that most variables are between people, so that two blows to the same person in similar body parts should evolve at about the same rate. The paper I'm most familiar with is the older one from 1991 by Langlois and Gresham "The ageing of bruises: a review and study of the colof changes over time" Forensic Sci Intl. 50:227-238. The MEDLINE abstract is below. A quick review of medline shows a group who have been trying to use colorimetry on skin rather than evaluation of photographs, but it doesn't look like they've gotten far. Of more interest, since this is most often a problem in child abuse cases is a study of the "normal" distribution over the body of accidental contusions in babies who are not abused. They found that about 12% of babies had bruises (which is low in my mind -- but then again we are talking < 12 months, well before kids become walking disaster areas), that most were single bruises and almost all were over bony prominences. About what you would expect. See: Carpenter, RF. The prevalence and distribution of bruising in babies [see comments] Arch Dis Child 1999 Apr;80(4):363-6 The MEDLINE abstract for the Langlois paper is: This work was inspired by a recent case of child abuse where the question of the age of the bruises on the body was raised. The first part of this paper reviews published work on bruises. It illustrates the paucity of work in this field and the absence of studies of the colour changes in bruises of human skin with time. The second part of this paper consists of our own study of the appearance of bruises. The aim was to identify the colour changes which occur in bruises and over what time-scale, in order to determine whether bruises can be aged by appearance. A total of 369 photographs were obtained of bruises aged less than 6 h and up to 21 days old, in 89 subjects aged 10-100 years. It was found that the development of a yellow colour was the most significant change (subjects aged less than 65, P less than 0.001; subjects aged greater than or equal to 65 years, P less than 0.001). The development of a yellow colour occurred significantly faster in subjects aged less than 65 years. (P less than 0.001). The billo From forens-owner Fri Oct 27 10:51:32 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24916 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.49]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24910 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from att.net ([12.79.53.114]) by mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20001027145104.QLZI13638.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:51:04 +0000 Message-ID: <39F9971A.EE4CB324@att.net> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:54:18 -0400 From: Urban Umbrella X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Bone & Tetracycline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, I am doing research for a book & would appreciate any assistance you could provide on the following queries. It's a fictional book, but we would like to be as accurate as possible in the details. Please include your full name, title, department, company & email in your response. Your time & assistance are greatly appreciated! Thank you. Regards, Lisa Chau * * * When bone in a patient who has been treated with tetracycline is placed under an ultraviolet microscope, it fluoresces yellow-green. 1] What wavelength does this? UV is centered around a specific wavelength, but a range. 2] Are there other things -- pollution, medications, etc. -- that could make bone fluoresce? And what, how and what color? 3] When you look in the microscope, is the greenish fluorescence only visible if you and the slide are in the dark? <<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>> http://www.geocities.com/urbanumbrella/ -<<>>- Yahoo Messenger: UrbanUmbrella "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it." --Bertolt Brecht <<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>> From forens-owner Fri Oct 27 17:53:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29409 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:53:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29404 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:53:05 -0400 (EDT) From: LeonStein@aol.com Received: from LeonStein@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id y.cb.aa71dbc (16785); Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:52:30 EDT Subject: Quality Sample Program at NFSTC To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu, ascld@lab.fws.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 126 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk The NFSTC, under a cooperative agreement with the National Institute of Justice, has launched its Quality Sample Program. The program will eventually provide one quality sample for each discipline that a publically funded crime lab in the United States performs analysis. The first cycle of samples includes 4 sample types - flammables, controlled substances, toxicology, and hair. The first samples will be shipped in February, 2001. If you or someone you know is interested in being a manufacturer of samples, please visit our website www.nfstc.org and click on the "Quality Samples" button for information. On the site the first Request for Proposal (RFP), for the flammables samples, as well as a Master Agreement (contract) can be found. The purposes and uses of the quality samples are also listed. David Epstein Director of Scientific Services NFSTC From forens-owner Fri Oct 27 18:16:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29787 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [64.240.232.234] ([64.240.232.234]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29781 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hbpdmail01.surfcity-hb.org by [64.240.232.234] via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 27 Oct 2000 22:16:14 UT Received: by HBPDMAIL01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:16:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8B72928052D211B17700A0C9DEEFE0070008@HBPDMAIL01> From: "Breyer, Chris" To: "'jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au'" , forens@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: About bruises date. Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:16:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Or at least they can become a technical assistant to "CSI," the TV drama-show. Oh, the glitz, the glamour, the guffaws! ********** Oh dear....... I suspect that if anyone answers that they can accurately tell you the age of a bruise based on its appearance, they need to have some serious re-education. Can I recommend that anyone who believes they can age bruises accurately volunteer themselves for some blunt force injuries of varying magnitude. They can then observe the diversity of responses of their body over the next week or two! Regards, Jo Duflou NSW Institute of Forensic Medicine (email: jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au) From forens-owner Sat Oct 28 06:08:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05039 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 06:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post.ic.ru (post-gw.ic.ru [194.84.157.11] (may be forged)) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05034 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 06:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ip96.jeo.ru (ip96.jeo.ru [194.84.157.96]) by post.ic.ru (8.9.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22404; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:08:11 +0400 (MSD) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:05:12 +0400 From: Yakovlev X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.39) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Yakovlev X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <11586.001028@ic.ru> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu CC: brana.s@EUnet.yu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Branislava Savic" ] (fwd) In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi all, B> Dear colleagues! B> I must ask for help concerning one autopsy case: a 14-year-old boy, = B> according to anamnestic data from his father, he has been training = B> football and previously was completely healthy. On 26th March 2000 he = - snip - It seems to me that toxicology (alcohol and diazepam) suggestion of a reason of death is the wrong way. It's necessary to consider a Brugada and related cardiography syndromes. To prove it try to fulfil cardiography examination of the deseased's nearest relatives. If ST depression in the anteroseptal territory and a right branch block will be revealed you can speak about ventricular fibrillation with a sufficient degree of probability. Best regards, Aleksey Yakovlev, Forensic pathologist, Rostov-on-Don, Russia mailto:netstaff@ic.ru From forens-owner Sat Oct 28 09:34:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06534 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-r07.mail.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.7]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06529 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:34:35 -0400 (EDT) From: LEGALEYE1@aol.com Received: from LEGALEYE1@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id f.c.c75b732 (17080) for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:33:55 EDT Subject: Re: About bruises date. To: forens@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 87 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk In a message dated 10/26/00 7:36:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au writes: > I suspect that if anyone answers that they can accurately tell you > the age of a bruise based on its appearance, they need to have > some serious re-education. Yea, a lot you know. I just received my AACCE certification as an expert consult in determining the age of bruises. Any day now I expect to also receive certification from the Association of Scientific Specialists Having Official Lifetime Experience in Society. I would have just given the acronym for this fine certification organization but they don't have one they like yet. Bill (Note: Due to the past mistake of my sarcastic comments as serious claims I include this disclaimer. This is parody of AACCE and the other organization, well, you figure out the acronym.) From forens-owner Sat Oct 28 09:54:29 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06801 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f10.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.10]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06796 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:54:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 06:53:56 -0700 Received: from 24.4.254.161 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:53:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.4.254.161] From: "John Lyons" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Lab makes error on blood test Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:53:55 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_4eb_395_2c66" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2000 13:53:56.0136 (UTC) FILETIME=[83A07280:01C040E6] Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_4eb_395_2c66 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------=_NextPart_000_4eb_395_2c66 Content-Type: message/rfc822 >From johnblyons@hotmail.com Sat Oct 28 06:05:25 2000 Received: from [63.94.5.37] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBBC419A5009DD82197DA3F5E05250AD50; Sat Oct 28 06:03:33 2000 Received: from exchangeserver.praetoriangroup.com (208.30.191.214 [208.30.191.214]) by Exchange00.ROME.praetoriangroup.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id VY1R8QBP; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 05:56:45 -0700 Content-type: text/html Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 06:12:13 -0700 From: johnblyons@hotmail.com Subject: PoliceOne.com To: johnblyons@hotmail.com PoliceOne.com john has sent you a News Story from the PoliceOne daily News.
Message:
Man sues state after blood test
mistakenly identifies him as drunk driver
by:
Channel: Technology/Products

 (BATON ROUGE, La.) -- A 25-year-old Lacombe man is suing the state after it admitted botching a blood test that mistakenly identified him as the driver of a pickup truck that crashed into a cemetery gate near Slidell last year.

James Rollings said it was at best a serious mistake by the State Police crime lab, which has apologized and changed its testing procedures. At worst, it may have been part of a conspiracy to charge him with a felony DWI offense, said Rollings, who claims he is being unfairly prosecuted in another DWI case.

After a night of playing pool on Sept. 28, 1999, Rollings and Maria Miceli were heading home at 1:09 a.m. when her white Chevrolet S-10 pickup slammed into a concrete pillar at the Oak Grove Cemetery entrance near Military and Short Cut roads.

State Police arrived to find Miceli, 37, dazed and sitting alone in the driver's seat. She gave conflicting statements about whether anyone else was in the truck and who was driving, according to police reports.

Rollings returned a few minutes later and told police Miceli lost control of the truck while talking on a cell phone. He said he blacked out after crossing the street to call 911 on a pay phone because the cell phone was broken.

But a taxi driver who saw the crash said Rollings got out of the driver's seat, opened the passenger's door and helped Miceli sit down next to the cemetery gate. Police also found long, brown hair that resembled Miceli's imbedded in a crack on the passenger's side of the windshield.

Police booked Rollings with third-offense DWI after he refused to take a sobriety test. Rollings, who said he and Miceli each had had a couple of drinks, said he feared the test could be used as an admission he was driving.

Three months later, results from forensics testing at the State Police crime lab in Baton Rouge seemed to confirm that Rollings was driving. Blood swatches taken from the passenger's side came back as type A, matching a blood sample taken from Miceli, who had a cut over her right eye.

The tests indicated Rollings, who suffered a separated shoulder and broken nose, has type O blood, which didn't match any of the swatches -- all of which were from the passenger's side.

"My nose was bleeding like a stuck pig, but there wasn't any blood on the driver's side," Rollings said. "How could I have been driving?"

Rollings then had his blood tested at a blood bank and a local hospital and both times it came back as type A, not type O as the crime lab had reported. In April, the crime lab retested the blood samples and determined the blood on the passenger's side was Rollings'.

State Police have said a technician who conducted the first tests transposed Rollings' and Miceli's blood types while recording them. But Rollings' mother, Pamela, questions whether it was a mistake.

"I don't like to throw around the word 'conspiracy,' but how else do you explain statements from three police officers and a witness that match results from a blood test that turned out to be wrong?" she said. "It's way too big of a coincidence."

Even if it was just a clerical error, James Rollings said it's a serious blow to the lab's credibility.

Crime lab officials declined to comment on the case because of the pending lawsuit, filed Sept. 28 in Baton Rouge. But in a June 1 letter to Pamela Rollings, Lt. Colonel Ronald Jones said administrators disciplined the technician and changed a procedure manual to prevent similar errors. "We deeply regret that this error occurred and any inconvenience it may have caused," Jones wrote.

Tammy Pruet, a crime lab attorney, said the lab was accredited this year by the American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors, which has accredited nearly 200 forensic labs since 1982.

"We are just the second lab to be accredited on the first try," she said. "I'm confident there are no problems with our procedures or protocol, but I can tell you that people are human, and mistakes can be made." Rollings' lawsuit seeks damages for the humiliation and anguish of being "erroneously charged with DWI" as well as the time and money spent proving his innocence.

After the blood test was corrected, the St. Tammany Parish district attorney's office dropped the DWI charge filed after the crash. However, the office has filed charges against Rollings for a DWI arrest in June 1998 that was never prosecuted.

Rollings, an electrician, said the charge was dismissed as part of a plea bargain in October 1998 after he went on a drinking binge and racked up three DWI arrests within 45 days of breaking up with his former girlfriend. Rollings said he pleaded guilty in Slidell City Court to two first-offense DWI charges with the third charge set aside as long as he followed the terms of his two-year probation. But Assistant District Attorney Joe Tosterud said prosecutors have no record of a plea bargain and never would have approved such a deal under their zero-tolerance DWI policy.

Donald Cave, Rollings' Baton Rouge attorney, has filed a motion to quash the DWI charge, saying Rollings was denied his right to a speedy trial on the two-year-old charge. But Tosterud said state law gives prosecutors four years to file charges in felony cases.

A hearing on the motion to throw out the DWI charge is set for today before Judge Larry Green of the 22nd Judicial District Court in Covington. Meanwhile, State Police have defended the decision to arrest Rollings, saying all the evidence pointed to him as the driver, including Miceli's conflicting statements at the crash scene.

After initially telling police she was driving alone, Miceli later admitted Rollings was in the truck and then said he was driving, according to police reports. But later that day, Miceli, who said she met Rollings at a pool league the night of the crash, signed a statement saying she was driving and Rollings was in the passenger seat.

Rollings said the cab driver's statement that he helped Miceli sit down near the cemetery gate doesn't square with police reports indicating officers found her unresponsive behind the wheel. Tosterud said the cab driver seemed like a credible witness, but he said the blood test cast too much doubt on the case.

The hair from the windshield was not tested, but Rollings insists it was his. "They saw long hair and just assumed it was hers," he said. "I guess they didn't notice that I have a ponytail."

Rollings said it's an example of how police were predisposed to view evidence as incriminating against him because of his previous DWI convictions.

"Once they ran my name through the computer and saw my record, their investigation was over. I feel like I was presumed guilty and had to prove myself innocent," he said, noting that the forensic testing wasn't done until he requested it.

But Tosterud said there is no evidence that police acted improperly. "It's just a bizarre case," he said. "We'll probably never know for certain what happened that night."

(iSyndicate; The Times Picayune; Oct. 20, 2000) Terms and Conditions: Copyright(c) 2000 LEXIS-NEXIS, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights Reserved.



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------=_NextPart_000_4eb_395_2c66-- From forens-owner Sat Oct 28 11:55:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07946 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07941 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-63.210.210.243.NewYork1.Level3.net [63.210.210.243]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03850; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 08:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <39FAF6D2.5003B3BB@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:54:58 -0400 From: Lu Ann Horstman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-compaq (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "forens@statgen.ncsu.edu" , ja4@xtalwind.net Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I am looking for document examiners with expertise in handwriting and typewriter identification (late fifties, early sixties machines) thanks - ramblingal@earthlink.net From forens-owner Sat Oct 28 17:24:40 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10583 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10578 for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:24:39 -0400 (EDT) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id y.f7.4090a21 (4315) for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:24:03 EDT Subject: Fwd: 10-28-00 = WP; death sentence reinstated in 'sleeping lawyer' case To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_f7.4090a21.272c9df3_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 66 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk --part1_f7.4090a21.272c9df3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/28/00 1:13:32 PM, poosakey@earthlink.net writes: << Death Sentence Reinstated in 'Sleeping Lawyer' Case=20 By Paul Duggan Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday , October 28, 2000 ; Page A13=20 AUSTIN, Oct. 27 -- Relying on a legal precedent long criticized by execution= =20 opponents, a divided federal appeals court panel today reinstated the death=20 sentence of a defendant whose murder case gained notoriety as one of several= =20 in Texas in which court-appointed lawyers slept through stretches of=20 testimony. Two members of a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th=20 Circuit voted to reinstate the death sentence. One of them was Judge Edith=20 Jones, whom many legal observers see as a possible Supreme Court nominee if=20 Texas Gov. George W. Bush (R) wins the presidency. Jones, named to the=20 appeals court by President Ronald Reagan, was considered for a Supreme Court= =20 appointment by Bush's father in 1990. Today's ruling came in the case of Calvin Jerold Burdine, 47, who was se ntenced to death by a Houston jury in 1984 for the stabbing death of a forme= r=20 roommate. Burdine's court-appointed trial lawyer, Joe Frank Cannon, who died= =20 in 1998, was notorious in Houston for nodding off in courtrooms. By one law=20 professor's count, a dozen of Cannon's indigent clients went to Texas's deat= h=20 row in a 10-year span before judges stopped assigning him to capital cases i= n=20 the late 1980s. During Burdine's appeal, lawyers for the state did not dispute that Cannon=20 slept during parts of the trial. But the Supreme Court has held that in case= s=20 like Burdine's, the appellant must show that his lawyer's napping had an=20 impact on the trial's outcome. The state's lawyers argued that Burdine had failed to make such a showing.=20 Jones and Judge Rhesa Barksdale, an appointee of President George Bush,=20 agreed with the state in today's ruling. Judge Fortunato Benavides, who was=20 named to the New Orleans-based appeals court by President Clinton, wrote a=20 strongly worded dissent. Burdine did not raise Cannon's sleeping as an appellate issue until the=20 mid-1990s. At a hearing in 1995, several participants in the 1984 trial=20 testified that they had seen Cannon napping at the defense table for up to 1= 5=20 minutes. But they could not recall specifically at what points in the trial=20 he nodded off. "In sum, on this record, we cannot determine if Cannon slept during 'a=20 critical stage' of Burdine's trial," Barksdale wrote. The ruling reinstated=20= a=20 death sentence thrown out last year by a lower federal court. "Of course,"=20 Barksdale added, "our rejecting Burdine's . . . claim should not be=20 understood as condoning sleeping by defense counsel during a capital murder=20 trial (or any other trial, for that matter)." Benavides wrote, "It shocks the conscience that a defendant could be=20 sentenced to death under the circumstances surrounding counsel's=20 representation of Burdine." The Sixth Amendment entitles a defendant to "the assistance of counsel," and= =20 the Supreme Court has said that such assistance must not be "ineffective." But under a 1984 Supreme Court case, Strickland v. Washington, a defendant=20 making an "ineffective assistance of counsel" claim must show not only that=20 his trial lawyer's performance was grossly substandard. He must also show=20 that if not for that poor performance, the trial's outcome likely would have= =20 been different. The Strickland standard has been cited in appellate decisions upholding deat= h=20 sentences in Texas, where execution opponents say scores of capital cases=20 have been mishandled by incompetent court-appointed attorneys. Gov. Bush, who has strongly defended his state's vigorous death penalty=20 system, was asked about Texas's "sleeping lawyer" cases, including Burdine's= ,=20 during a campaign debate in Los Angeles on March 2. Bush cited the lower=20 court's decision to throw out Burdine's sentence as evidence that the system= =20 worked fairly. But a day after that debate, Texas prosecutors asked the 5th Circuit to=20 reinstate Burdine's sentence, resulting in today's ruling. =A9 2000 The Washington Post=20 Poo-sa'-key 960 Division Street Bandon, OR 97411 541.347.9848 poosakey@earthlink.net --------------------
Death Sentence Reinstated in 'Sleeping Lawyer'=20 Case=20 By Paul Duggan Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday ,=20 October 28, 2000 ; Page A13=20 AUSTIN, Oct. 27 –– Relying on a legal precedent long criticized=20 by execution=20 opponents, a divided federal appeals court panel today reinstated the death=20 sentence of a defendant whose murder case gained notoriety as one of several= =20 in=20 Texas in which court-appointed lawyers slept through stretches of testimony. Two members of a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th=20 Circuit voted to reinstate the death sentence. One of them was Judge Edith=20 Jones, whom many legal observers see as a possible Supreme Court nominee if=20 Texas Gov. George W. Bush (R) wins the presidency. Jones, named to the=20 appeals=20 court by President Ronald Reagan, was considered for a Supreme Court=20 appointment=20 by Bush's father in 1990. Today's ruling came in the case of Calvin Jerold Burdine, 47, who was=20 sentenced to death by a Houston jury in 1984 for the stabbing death of a=20 former=20 roommate. Burdine's court-appointed trial lawyer, Joe Frank Cannon, who died= =20 in=20 1998, was notorious in Houston for nodding off in courtrooms. By one law=20 professor's count, a dozen of Cannon's indigent clients went to Texas's deat= h=20 row in a 10-year span before judges stopped assigning him to capital cases i= n=20 the late 1980s. During Burdine's appeal, lawyers for the state did not dispute that Cannon=20 slept during parts of the trial. But the Supreme Court has held that in case= s=20 like Burdine's, the appellant must show that his lawyer's napping had an=20 impact=20 on the trial's outcome. The state's lawyers argued that Burdine had failed to make such a showing.=20 Jones and Judge Rhesa Barksdale, an appointee of President George Bush,=20 agreed=20 with the state in today's ruling. Judge Fortunato Benavides, who was named t= o=20 the New Orleans-based appeals court by President Clinton, wrote a strongly=20 worded dissent. Burdine did not raise Cannon's sleeping as an appellate issue until the=20 mid-1990s. At a hearing in 1995, several participants in the 1984 trial=20 testified that they had seen Cannon napping at the defense table for up to 1= 5=20 minutes. But they could not recall specifically at what points in the trial=20 he=20 nodded off. "In sum, on this record, we cannot determine if Cannon slept during 'a=20 critical stage' of Burdine's trial," Barksdale wrote. The ruling reinstated=20= a=20 death sentence thrown out last year by a lower federal court. "Of course,"=20 Barksdale added, "our rejecting Burdine's . . . claim should not be=20 understood=20 as condoning sleeping by defense counsel during a capital murder trial (or=20 any=20 other trial, for that matter)." Benavides wrote, "It shocks the conscience that a defendant could be=20 sentenced to death under the circumstances surrounding counsel's=20 representation=20 of Burdine." The Sixth Amendment entitles a defendant to "the assistance of counsel," and= =20 the Supreme Court has said that such assistance must not be "ineffective." But under a 1984 Supreme Court case, Strickland v. Washington, a defendant=20 making an "ineffective assistance of counsel" claim must show not only that=20 his=20 trial lawyer's performance was grossly substandard. He must also show that i= f=20 not for that poor performance, the trial's outcome likely would have been=20 different. The Strickland standard has been cited in appellate decisions upholding deat= h=20 sentences in Texas, where execution opponents say scores of capital cases=20 have=20 been mishandled by incompetent court-appointed attorneys. Gov. Bush, who has strongly defended his state's vigorous death penalty=20 system, was asked about Texas's "sleeping lawyer" cases, including Burdine's= ,=20 during a campaign debate in Los Angeles on March 2. Bush cited the lower=20 court's=20 decision to throw out Burdine's sentence as evidence that the system worked=20 fairly. But a day after that debate, Texas prosecutors asked the 5th Circuit to=20 reinstate Burdine's sentence, resulting in today's ruling.
=A9 2000 The Washington Post
Poo-sa'-key 960 Division Street Bandon, OR =20 97411 541.347.9848 poosakey@earthlink.net
----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-st08.mail.aol.com (rly-st08.mail.aol.com [172.31.34.3])=20 by air-yd05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:13:32=20 -0400 Received: from rly-yc01.mx.aol.com (rly-yc01.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.33]) by rly-st08.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA09808; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net=20 (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by rly-yc01.mx.aol.com=20 (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:09:24 -0400 Received: from iceberg (1Cust213.tnt1.coos-bay.or.da.uu.net [63.27.176.213]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id=20 KAA01474; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000001c04102$45164000$d5b01b3f@iceberg.com> Reply-To: "Poosakey" From: "Poosakey" To: "Richard Mato" , "Frederic Whitehurst" , "John Kelly" , "Joe Vocht" , "Brenda Hill" , "Bobbi Stewart" Subject: 10-28-00 =3D WP; death sentence reinstated in 'sleeping lawyer' cas= e Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:53:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_0007_01C040C4.F8BBD180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 >> --part1_f7.4090a21.272c9df3_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-st08.mail.aol.com (rly-st08.mail.aol.com [172.31.34.3]) by air-yd05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:13:32 -0400 Received: from rly-yc01.mx.aol.com (rly-yc01.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.33]) by rly-st08.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA09808; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by rly-yc01.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:09:24 -0400 Received: from iceberg (1Cust213.tnt1.coos-bay.or.da.uu.net [63.27.176.213]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA01474; Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000001c04102$45164000$d5b01b3f@iceberg.com> Reply-To: "Poosakey" From: "Poosakey" To: "Richard Mato" , "Frederic Whitehurst" , "John Kelly" , "Joe Vocht" , "Brenda Hill" , "Bobbi Stewart" Subject: 10-28-00 = WP; death sentence reinstated in 'sleeping lawyer' case Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:53:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C040C4.F8BBD180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C040C4.F8BBD180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Death Sentence Reinstated in 'Sleeping Lawyer' Case=20 By Paul Duggan Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday , October 28, 2000 ; Page A13=20 AUSTIN, Oct. 27 -- Relying on a legal precedent long criticized by execution= =20 opponents, a divided federal appeals court panel today reinstated the death=20 sentence of a defendant whose murder case gained notoriety as one of several= =20 in Texas in which court-appointed lawyers slept through stretches of=20 testimony. Two members of a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th=20 Circuit voted to reinstate the death sentence. One of them was Judge Edith=20 Jones, whom many legal observers see as a possible Supreme Court nominee if=20 Texas Gov. George W. Bush (R) wins the presidency. Jones, named to the=20 appeals court by President Ronald Reagan, was considered for a Supreme Court= =20 appointment by Bush's father in 1990. Today's ruling came in the case of Calvin Jerold Burdine, 47, who was=20 sentenced to death by a Houston jury in 1984 for the stabbing death of a=20 former roommate. Burdine's court-appointed trial lawyer, Joe Frank Cannon,=20 who died in 1998, was notorious in Houston for nodding off in courtrooms. By= =20 one law professor's count, a dozen of Cannon's indigent clients went to=20 Texas's death row in a 10-year span before judges stopped assigning him to=20 capital cases in the late 1980s. During Burdine's appeal, lawyers for the state did not dispute that Cannon=20 slept during parts of the trial. But the Supreme Court has held that in case= s=20 like Burdine's, the appellant must show that his lawyer's napping had an=20 impact on the trial's outcome. The state's lawyers argued that Burdine had failed to make such a showing.=20 Jones and Judge Rhesa Barksdale, an appointee of President George Bush,=20 agreed with the state in today's ruling. Judge Fortunato Benavides, who was=20 named to the New Orleans-based appeals court by President Clinton, wrote a=20 strongly worded dissent. Burdine did not raise Cannon's sleeping as an appellate issue until the=20 mid-1990s. At a hearing in 1995, several participants in the 1984 trial=20 testified that they had seen Cannon napping at the defense table for up to 1= 5=20 minutes. But they could not recall specifically at what points in the trial=20 he nodded off. "In sum, on this record, we cannot determine if Cannon slept during 'a=20 critical stage' of Burdine's trial," Barksdale wrote. The ruling reinstated=20= a=20 death sentence thrown out last year by a lower federal court. "Of course,"=20 Barksdale added, "our rejecting Burdine's . . . claim should not be=20 understood as condoning sleeping by defense counsel during a capital murder=20 trial (or any other trial, for that matter)." Benavides wrote, "It shocks the conscience that a defendant could be=20 sentenced to death under the circumstances surrounding counsel's=20 representation of Burdine." The Sixth Amendment entitles a defendant to "the assistance of counsel," and= =20 the Supreme Court has said that such assistance must not be "ineffective." But under a 1984 Supreme Court case, Strickland v. Washington, a defendant=20 making an "ineffective assistance of counsel" claim must show not only that=20 his trial lawyer's performance was grossly substandard. He must also show=20 that if not for that poor performance, the trial's outcome likely would have= =20 been different. The Strickland standard has been cited in appellate decisions upholding deat= h=20 sentences in Texas, where execution opponents say scores of capital cases=20 have been mishandled by incompetent court-appointed attorneys. Gov. Bush, who has strongly defended his state's vigorous death penalty=20 system, was asked about Texas's "sleeping lawyer" cases, including Burdine's= ,=20 during a campaign debate in Los Angeles on March 2. Bush cited the lower=20 court's decision to throw out Burdine's sentence as evidence that the system= =20 worked fairly. But a day after that debate, Texas prosecutors asked the 5th Circuit to=20 reinstate Burdine's sentence, resulting in today's ruling. =A9 2000 The Washington Post=20 Poo-sa'-key 960 Division Street Bandon, OR 97411 541.347.9848 poosakey@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C040C4.F8BBD180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable







Death Sentence Reinstated in 'Sleeping Lawyer'=20
Case=20

By Paul Duggan
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sat= urday ,=20
October 28, 2000 ; Page A13


AUSTIN, Oct. 27 &#8211;&#8211; Relying on a legal precedent l= ong criticized=20
by execution=20
opponents, a divided federal appeals court panel today reinstated the de= ath=20
sentence of a defendant whose murder case gained notoriety as one of sev= eral=20
in=20
Texas in which court-appointed lawyers slept through stretches of testim= ony.


Two members of a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for t= he 5th=20
Circuit voted to reinstate the death sentence. One of them was Judge Edi= th=20
Jones, whom many legal observers see as a possible Supreme Court nominee= if=20
Texas Gov. George W. Bush (R) wins the presidency. Jones, named to the=20
appeals=20
court by President Ronald Reagan, was considered for a Supreme Court=20
appointment=20
by Bush's father in 1990.


Today's ruling came in the case of Calvin Jerold Burdine, 47, who was= =20
sentenced to death by a Houston jury in 1984 for the stabbing death of a= =20
former=20
roommate. Burdine's court-appointed trial lawyer, Joe Frank Cannon, who=20= died=20
in=20
1998, was notorious in Houston for nodding off in courtrooms. By one law= =20
professor's count, a dozen of Cannon's indigent clients went to Texas's=20= death=20
row in a 10-year span before judges stopped assigning him to capital cas= es in=20
the late 1980s.


During Burdine's appeal, lawyers for the state did not dispute that C= annon=20
slept during parts of the trial. But the Supreme Court has held that in=20= cases=20
like Burdine's, the appellant must show that his lawyer's napping had an= =20
impact=20
on the trial's outcome.


The state's lawyers argued that Burdine had failed to make such a sho= wing.=20
Jones and Judge Rhesa Barksdale, an appointee of President George Bush,=20
agreed=20
with the state in today's ruling. Judge Fortunato Benavides, who was nam= ed to=20
the New Orleans-based appeals court by President Clinton, wrote a strong= ly=20
worded dissent.


Burdine did not raise Cannon's sleeping as an appellate issue until t= he=20
mid-1990s. At a hearing in 1995, several participants in the 1984 trial=20
testified that they had seen Cannon napping at the defense table for up=20= to 15=20
minutes. But they could not recall specifically at what points in the tr= ial=20
he=20
nodded off.


"In sum, on this record, we cannot determine if Cannon slept during '= a=20
critical stage' of Burdine's trial," Barksdale wrote. The ruling reinsta= ted a=20
death sentence thrown out last year by a lower federal court. "Of course= ,"=20
Barksdale added, "our rejecting Burdine's . . . claim should not be=20
understood=20
as condoning sleeping by defense counsel during a capital murder trial (= or=20
any=20
other trial, for that matter)."


Benavides wrote, "It shocks the conscience that a defendant could be=20
sentenced to death under the circumstances surrounding counsel's=20
representation=20
of Burdine."


The Sixth Amendment entitles a defendant to "the assistance of counse= l," and=20
the Supreme Court has said that such assistance must not be "ineffective= ."


But under a 1984 Supreme Court case, Strickland v. Washington, a defe= ndant=20
making an "ineffective assistance of counsel" claim must show not only t= hat=20
his=20
trial lawyer's performance was grossly substandard. He must also show th= at if=20
not for that poor performance, the trial's outcome likely would have bee= n=20
different.


The Strickland standard has been cited in appellate decisions upholdi= ng death=20
sentences in Texas, where execution opponents say scores of capital case= s=20
have=20
been mishandled by incompetent court-appointed attorneys.


Gov. Bush, who has strongly defended his state's vigorous death penal= ty=20
system, was asked about Texas's "sleeping lawyer" cases, including Burdi= ne's,=20
during a campaign debate in Los Angeles on March 2. Bush cited the lower= =20
court's=20
decision to throw out Burdine's sentence as evidence that the system wor= ked=20
fairly.


But a day after that debate, Texas prosecutors asked the 5th Circuit=20= to=20
reinstate Burdine's sentence, resulting in today's ruling.




=A9 2000 The Washington Post

Poo-sa'-key
960 Division Street
Bandon, OR&nbs= p;=20
97411
541.347.9848
poosakey@earthlink.net
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C040C4.F8BBD180-- --part1_f7.4090a21.272c9df3_boundary-- From forens-owner Sun Oct 29 04:04:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16054 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:04:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.ic.ru (post-gw.ic.ru [194.84.157.11] (may be forged)) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16049 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:04:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip66.jeo.ru (ip66.jeo.ru [194.84.157.66]) by post.ic.ru (8.9.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05443; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:04:05 +0300 (MSK) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:05:08 +0300 From: Yakovlev X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.39) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Yakovlev X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <2503.001029@ic.ru> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu CC: ramblingal@earthlink.net Subject: Re[2]: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Branislava Savic" ] (fwd) In-reply-To: <39FAF641.81192E94@earthlink.net> References: <39FAF641.81192E94@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello Lu, Saturday, October 28, 2000 you wrote: LAH> In the area of forensics, can Russian document examiners work on American LAH> papers written in English (for the purpose of identification of authenticity, LAH> dating, etc.) ramblingal@earthlink.net I am not so conversant with activity document examiners but I know Russian pathologists use any sources without limitations. Best regards, Yakovlev Aleksey, Forensic pathologist, Rostov-on-Don, Russia mailto:netstaff@ic.ru From forens-owner Sun Oct 29 15:47:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21214 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:47:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-r14.mail.aol.com (imo-r14.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.68]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21209 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:47:55 -0500 (EST) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id y.e0.b99e5fb (4537); Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:47:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:47:20 EST Subject: FBI replaces forensic science with torture, once removed, of course To: NameBase@cs.com, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_e0.b99e5fb.272de6d8_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 66 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk --part1_e0.b99e5fb.272de6d8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/29/00 12:56:06 PM, poosakey@earthlink.net writes: << New Global Role Puts FBI in Unsavory Company=20 By David A. Vise Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday , October 29, 2000 ; Page A01=20 When a terrorist blast killed 17 sailors aboard the USS Cole earlier this=20 month, more than 100 FBI agents, laboratory experts and forensics specialist= s=20 swarmed into Yemen. Among the FBI horde was Director Louis J. Freeh. Freeh has been a familiar face overseas as he has transformed the bureau fro= m=20 a domestic crime-fighting corps targeted at organized crime and bank robbers= =20 into a global police agency with an anti-terrorism mission and a permanent=20 presence in 44 nations. "We have the ability to work, literally, every place in the world," Freeh=20 declared recently. That expansion has sometimes put the FBI in unsavory company. As the bureau=20 extends its crime-fighting network to places such as Yemen and Saudi Arabia,= =20 it confronts police tactics, including torture and a lack of due process, th= a t would be barred in the United States. Such practices are sharply at odds=20 with Freeh's oft-stated message about the FBI's need to respect "human=20 dignity" and the tenets of democracy while fighting crime. But last year Freeh made a secret deal with Saudi Prince Naif, brother of=20 King Fahd, to return a Saudi Arabian bombing suspect being held in a federal= =20 prison in Atlanta to a jail in Riyadh where human rights groups say torture=20 is routinely used. Freeh's pact permitted FBI agents to watch Hani=20 Al-Sayegh's interrogation through a one-way mirror and submit questions to=20 his Saudi inquisitors, officials familiar with the arrangement said. Al-Sayegh was a suspect in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing that claimed the=20 lives of 19 U.S. servicemen in Saudi Arabia. He had reneged on his pledge to= =20 cooperate with U.S. law enforcement authorities. "It is really a dirty little case," said Clarisa Bencomo, a researcher with=20 Human Rights Watch who has monitored Al-Sayegh's case closely. To Freeh's=20 FBI, she said, it seems that "the information that may come out of this is=20 more useful or worthwhile to them than the possibility of this guy being=20 tortured or executed." After a U.S. immigration judge officially ordered the Saudi suspect sent=20 back, Freeh merely was ensuring that FBI agents would have access to whateve= r=20 information the Saudis obtained, the officials said. A friend of Al-Sayegh says that he has been tortured in prison, an allegatio= n=20 that Saudi officials deny. FBI officials say they have not seen any=20 indication that Al-Sayegh has been tortured. "To suggest we are not very mindful of these concerns would be wrong," said=20 FBI Assistant Director John Collingwood. "We collect information and seek=20 witnesses to present in U.S. courts subject to all the scrutiny and=20 challenges inherent in that process." But agents say privately that when entering a foreign culture to do police=20 work they do not have control over how prisoners are treated and must tread=20 lightly. "They do not ask, 'How did you question them?' They will just ask, 'Is it=20 good information?'?" said Otwin Marenin, a criminal justice professor at=20 Washington State University who has studied the FBI's overseas practices.=20 "You learn how to live with that part even though you wouldn't do it=20 yourself." Yemeni interrogation techniques have been criticized by no less than the=20 State Department, which found in its most recent human rights report that=20 Yemen's security forces arbitrarily torture prisoners, sometimes fatally. Bu= t=20 the Yemenis also have allowed FBI agents to submit questions. They have=20 shared some of the results of their interrogations, but the FBI is pressing=20 for even greater access, sources said. U.S. law does not prohibit the bureau from developing close ties with foreig= n=20 governments whose practices, laws and ethics differ dramatically from those=20 in the United States. Freeh and others argue that the FBI's approach is=20 necessary to save American lives. With information from the Saudi government, "we were able to thwart at least= =20 a couple of major incidents," said Bassem Youssef, who served as the FBI's=20 top agent in Saudi Arabia until last summer. FBI Academy in Budapest >From his early days as FBI director in 1993, Freeh had a vision of where he=20 wanted to take the bureau: abroad. As a prosecutor in the vaunted Southern=20 District of New York, Freeh concluded that he needed to go global to fight=20 crime after pursuing a complex drug case that tracked back to Sicily. A down-to-earth former FBI agent with a law degree from Fordham University=20 and a federal judgeship on his re?sume?, the high-energy, 50-year-old Freeh=20 likes to go jogging with new agents and gets so engrossed in the details of=20 big cases that he is jokingly referred to as the "presidentially appointed=20 case agent" when an international crime occurs. Freeh is a frenetic globe-trotter good at networking. Many foreign police=20 agency chiefs and some heads of state now view a visit with the FBI director= =20 as a compulsory stop when they are in Washington. Freeh is quick to point out that the globalization of the bureau, whether it= =20 is in fighting terrorism, organized crime, money laundering or computer=20 hacking, mirrors the globalization of crime. He argues passionately about th= e=20 need for FBI agents on the ground in countries around the world, building=20 "cop-to-cop" relationships. He wants his agents abroad, known in FBI parlanc= e=20 as "Legats" (short for legal attache?s), to field requests for information=20 from FBI offices in the United States and to handle inquiries from their hos= t=20 countries. FBI agents are posted today not only in London and Paris - once dismissed as= =20 the "wine and cheese circuit" - but also in Moscow, Riyadh, throughout=20 Africa, Eastern Europe, Asia and South America. Under Freeh, the bureau has=20 more than doubled its counterterrorism budget, to $547 million. And the FBI=20 now runs a training academy for foreign police officers in Budapest. "This is the forward deployed part of the FBI, and it gives us a perimeter o= f=20 defense and an ability to work directly in liaison with our [foreign]=20 colleagues on matters of grave importance," said Freeh, whose 10-year term=20 runs out in 2003. If the agents abroad constitute the frontiers of the 21st century FBI, the=20 nerve center remains in bureau headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue, where=20 Freeh has built a lasting part of his legacy. For years in the movies, the FBI has been depicted as being on the cutting=20 edge of technology. But the bureau did not have the type of "situation room"= =20 that existed in Hollywood fiction. It wasn't until 1998, at Freeh's insistence, that the Strategic Information=20 and Operations Center (SIOC) was born, a sleek and secure 40,000-square-foot= =20 colony within the bureau composed of elite analysts, ultra-fast computers,=20 global teleconferencing screens, top-secret phones and a bank of giant=20 televised images with up-to-the minute news. Its James Bond decor runs to stainless steel floorboards and digital=20 time-zone clocks. In a crisis, Freeh and his closest aides become residents=20 of SIOC, conferring with the White House, Pentagon, CIA, foreign governments= =20 and the FBI's network of field offices at home and abroad. SIOC can handle=20 four international crises at once. A few congressional critics consider the FBI's growth abroad a waste of=20 taxpayers' money. Former House Appropriations Committee chairman Bob=20 Livingston (R-La.) slowed the opening of FBI offices abroad in the 1990s by=20 withholding funding. "I just did not feel, and still do not feel, the FBI, whose charter is to be= =20 our domestic and paramount federal law enforcement agency, has any business=20 spreading themselves so thin all over the world," Livingston said. "I would=20 feel better off if they were doing their job better here." FBI officials strongly disagree. "We have got to be very vigilant to make sure we protect the American=20 people," said former FBI deputy director Robert M. Bryant. "Anybody who went= =20 to Oklahoma City and saw that building, or went to Khobar Towers and saw=20 those families, or saw Pan Am 103 on the ground in Lockerbie, Scotland, does= =20 not underestimate the ability of people . . . to do harm." Some view the expansion as a power grab, particularly since the Drug=20 Enforcement Administration, the U.S. Customs Service, the Bureau of Alcohol,= =20 Tobacco and Firearms and the State Department have had personnel abroad for=20 years. "There is a lot of pushing and shoving to get into the game," Marenin said. Freeh and other FBI officials draw a sharp distinction between their primary= =20 mission abroad - gathering evidence to make criminal cases - and the CIA's=20 role, collecting intelligence for decision makers. The FBI also gathers=20 intelligence with a goal of preventing terrorist acts. The agencies overlap=20 in their pursuit of information about terrorism. After World War II, so the apocryphal tale goes, FBI agents posted=20 temporarily in South America drove the bureau's cars into the water rather=20 than turn them over to the CIA. While that kind of fierce rivalry continued=20 for decades, it is fading away. CIA Director George J. Tenet said the two=20 agencies have never worked together better, and he praised the bureau's=20 overseas growth. "Our relationship is seamless in many areas," Tenet said. Friendly Governments Despite the allegations of torture and the moral issues posed, FBI officials= =20 say they need relationships with the Saudis, Yemenis and others in the Middl= e=20 East to fight terrorism effectively. The methods that worked so well for the= =20 FBI in its pursuit of gangsters Al Capone, John Dillinger and others are=20 simple compared to the complex challenge of pursuing an international=20 terrorist such as Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden has proven virtually immune to the FBI's traditional methods of=20 wiretapping and informants. Worse for the FBI, bin Laden is the head of an=20 anti-Western radical Islamic movement that experts say would survive even if= =20 he were killed or captured. Born in Saudi Arabia in 1957 into a wealthy family with a construction=20 empire, bin Laden joined the mujahedeen resistance to the Soviet invasion of= =20 Afghanistan in 1979. The 10-year guerrilla war against Russia taught him tha= t=20 fanatical violence could triumph over even a superpower. He and other Afghanistan alumni increasingly targeted the United States afte= r=20 the 1991 Persian Gulf War. An FBI investigation of bin Laden linked him to=20 the 1993 World Trade Center bombing in New York and the 1996 Khobar Towers=20 attack. Bin Laden gained worldwide notoriety with the Aug. 7, 1998, simultaneous=20 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. They were the deadlies= t=20 terrorist acts of the past decade, killing hundreds and wounding thousands. The FBI rushed to East Africa to assist in the investigation, which included= =20 more than 1,000 interviews. The FBI's investigation led to bin Laden's=20 indictment in New York for masterminding the explosions and put him on the=20 top of the FBI's "Most Wanted" list. Bin Laden also is a prime suspect in th= e=20 recent USS Cole bombing in Yemen. Inside SIOC, FBI analysts work in a special room 24-hours-a-day alongside a=20 poster of bin Laden that proclaims him "The Face of Evil." The room is=20 off-limits to visitors. The FBI's pursuit of bin Laden has led to the capture of nine of the 17=20 indicted suspects in the East Africa case, including one who has agreed to=20 explain how bin Laden and his terrorist network move people and explosives=20 around the world. But the FBI has not been able to apprehend bin Laden, who=20 reportedly lives in Afghanistan under the protection of the ruling Taliban=20 militia. In large part, the FBI depends upon "friendly foreign governments," not only= =20 to arrest and extradite fugitives but also to permit the bureau to operate o= n=20 their soil. Afghanistan is not a friendly foreign government. Freeh believes the FBI cannot bring the killers of Americans to justice=20 without doing business with governments such as Yemen, Saudi Arabia and=20 Jordan whose justice systems are antithetical to American principles. Last December, Jordanian security forces, with help from the CIA and FBI,=20 foiled a terrorist plot to kill American and Israeli tourists at two locati ons. "People say, 'I thought the CIA was overseas and FBI was in the U.S,' " said= =20 Scott Jessee, an FBI agent based in Tel Aviv who took part in the Jordanian=20 probe. "It has become absolutely necessary to work these issues with the res= t=20 of the world. You cannot work them in a vacuum. You cannot work them alone.=20 That is why we, the FBI, are overseas." Monitoring Interrogation After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, Hani Al-Sayegh fled Saudi Arabia for=20 Canada, as Saudi authorities began rounding up hundreds of members of the=20 Shiite minority. He feared that he would end up beheaded, his lawyers said.=20 Others said Al-Sayegh might have been a possible witness or suspect in the=20 bombing. As Canadian authorities were on the verge of returning him to Saudi Arabia,=20 Al-Sayegh agreed to cooperate with the FBI, sources said. But after arriving= =20 in the United States and retaining Frank Carter, a criminal defense lawyer,=20 Al-Sayegh refused to cooperate and asked for asylum. Freeh then negotiated the secret deal permitting FBI agents to watch=20 Al-Sayegh's interrogation in Saudi Arabia. Senior Justice Department officials said arrangements were made to monitor=20 Al-Sayegh's treatment, although they declined to offer details. Ivan Yacub, an immigration lawyer who tried to prevent Al-Sayegh's return to= =20 Saudi Arabia, said Attorney General Janet Reno conferred with someone at the= =20 State Department, who received assurances from the Saudis that Al-Sayegh=20 would not be tortured. But Yacub is skeptical. "The State Department report on Saudi Arabia talks about 200 people being=20 incarcerated and tortured for the same attack. So why believe they wouldn't=20 torture this guy?" Yacub said. Ali AlAhmed, a 33-year-old Saudi-born man who befriended Al-Sayegh in Canada= ,=20 recently briefed State Department officials on alleged religious persecution= =20 in Saudi Arabia. AlAhmed has established an organization in Northern Virgini= a=20 to publicize alleged abuses. He said Al-Sayegh has been subjected to taleeq,= =20 a painful torture where a person is hung from his handcuffs on a steel door,= =20 leaving the hands extremely swollen. Saudi officials have denied requests from Amnesty International to visit=20 Al-Sayegh in prison. They also said neither he nor anybody else has been=20 tortured in jail, calling that a myth perpetuated by opponents of the Saudi=20 government. His wife, Hakima Al-Sayegh, is permitted to visit her husband roughly once a= =20 month. She speaks to him through a glass panel in the presence of guards.=20 Recently, when asked whether her husband's hands appeared swollen, she said,= =20 "There are no traces of swelling in his hands." She knows that her telephone is monitored. During a recent telephone=20 interview, Hakima said: "Every time I go, I see his health is better. . .?.=20 When he returned from the U.S., his glasses were really in bad shape. They=20 have provided him with a new pair of glasses." Staff writer Nora Boustany contributed to this report. =A9 2000 The Washington Post=20 Poo-sa'-key 960 Division Street Bandon, OR 97411 541.347.9848 poosakey@earthlink.net --------------------
New Global Role Puts FBI in Unsavory Company=20 By David A. Vise Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday ,=20 October 29, 2000 ; Page A01=20 When a terrorist blast killed 17 sailors aboard the USS Cole earlier this=20 month, more than 100 FBI agents, laboratory experts and forensics specialist= s=20 swarmed into Yemen. Among the FBI horde was Director Louis J. Freeh. Freeh has been a familiar face overseas as he has transformed the bureau fro= m=20 a domestic crime-fighting corps targeted at organized crime and bank robbers= =20 into a global police agency with an anti-terrorism mission and a permanent=20 presence in 44 nations. "We have the ability to work, literally, every place in the world," Freeh=20 declared recently. That expansion has sometimes put the FBI in unsavory company. As the bureau=20 extends its crime-fighting network to places such as Yemen and Saudi Arabia,= =20 it=20 confronts police tactics, including torture and a lack of due process, that=20 would be barred in the United States. Such practices are sharply at odds wit= h=20 Freeh's oft-stated message about the FBI's need to respect "human dignity"=20 and=20 the tenets of democracy while fighting crime. But last year Freeh made a secret deal with Saudi Prince Naif, brother of=20 King Fahd, to return a Saudi Arabian bombing suspect being held in a federal= =20 prison in Atlanta to a jail in Riyadh where human rights groups say torture=20 is=20 routinely used. Freeh's pact permitted FBI agents to watch Hani Al-Sayegh's=20 interrogation through a one-way mirror and submit questions to his Saudi=20 inquisitors, officials familiar with the arrangement said. Al-Sayegh was a suspect in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing that claimed the=20 lives of 19 U.S. servicemen in Saudi Arabia. He had reneged on his pledge to= =20 cooperate with U.S. law enforcement authorities. "It is really a dirty little case," said Clarisa Bencomo, a researcher with=20 Human Rights Watch who has monitored Al-Sayegh's case closely. To Freeh's=20 FBI,=20 she said, it seems that "the information that may come out of this is more=20 useful or worthwhile to them than the possibility of this guy being tortured= =20 or=20 executed." After a U.S. immigration judge officially ordered the Saudi suspect sent=20 back, Freeh merely was ensuring that FBI agents would have access to whateve= r=20 information the Saudis obtained, the officials said. A friend of Al-Sayegh says that he has been tortured in prison, an allegatio= n=20 that Saudi officials deny. FBI officials say they have not seen any=20 indication=20 that Al-Sayegh has been tortured. "To suggest we are not very mindful of these concerns would be wrong," said=20 FBI Assistant Director John Collingwood. "We collect information and seek=20 witnesses to present in U.S. courts subject to all the scrutiny and=20 challenges=20 inherent in that process." But agents say privately that when entering a foreign culture to do police=20 work they do not have control over how prisoners are treated and must tread=20 lightly. "They do not ask, 'How did you question them?' They will just ask, 'Is it=20 good information?'?" said Otwin Marenin, a criminal justice professor at=20 Washington State University who has studied the FBI's overseas practices.=20 "You=20 learn how to live with that part even though you wouldn't do it yourself." Yemeni interrogation techniques have been criticized by no less than the=20 State Department, which found in its most recent human rights report that=20 Yemen's security forces arbitrarily torture prisoners, sometimes fatally. Bu= t=20 the Yemenis also have allowed FBI agents to submit questions. They have=20 shared=20 some of the results of their interrogations, but the FBI is pressing for eve= n=20 greater access, sources said. U.S. law does not prohibit the bureau from developing close ties with foreig= n=20 governments whose practices, laws and ethics differ dramatically from those=20 in=20 the United States. Freeh and others argue that the FBI's approach is=20 necessary=20 to save American lives. With information from the Saudi government, "we were able to thwart at least= =20 a couple of major incidents," said Bassem Youssef, who served as the FBI's=20 top=20 agent in Saudi Arabia until last summer. FBI Academy in Budapest >From his early days as FBI director in 1993, Freeh had a vision of where he=20 wanted to take the bureau: abroad. As a prosecutor in the vaunted Southern=20 District of New York, Freeh concluded that he needed to go global to fight=20 crime=20 after pursuing a complex drug case that tracked back to Sicily. A down-to-earth former FBI agent with a law degree from Fordham University=20 and a federal judgeship on his re?sume?, the high-energy, 50-year-old Freeh=20 likes to go jogging with new agents and gets so engrossed in the details of=20 big=20 cases that he is jokingly referred to as the "presidentially appointed case=20 agent" when an international crime occurs. Freeh is a frenetic globe-trotter good at networking. Many foreign police=20 agency chiefs and some heads of state now view a visit with the FBI director= =20 as=20 a compulsory stop when they are in Washington. Freeh is quick to point out that the globalization of the bureau, whether it= =20 is in fighting terrorism, organized crime, money laundering or computer=20 hacking,=20 mirrors the globalization of crime. He argues passionately about the need fo= r=20 FBI agents on the ground in countries around the world, building "cop-to-cop= "=20 relationships. He wants his agents abroad, known in FBI parlance as "Legats"= =20 (short for legal attache?s), to field requests for information from FBI=20 offices=20 in the United States and to handle inquiries from their host countries. FBI agents are posted today not only in London and Paris – once=20 dismissed as=20 the "wine and cheese circuit" – but also in Moscow, Riyadh, throughout= =20 Africa,=20 Eastern Europe, Asia and South America. Under Freeh, the bureau has more tha= n=20 doubled its counterterrorism budget, to $547 million. And the FBI now runs a= =20 training academy for foreign police officers in Budapest. "This is the forward deployed part of the FBI, and it gives us a perimeter o= f=20 defense and an ability to work directly in liaison with our [foreign]=20 colleagues=20 on matters of grave importance," said Freeh, whose 10-year term runs out in=20 2003. If the agents abroad constitute the frontiers of the 21st century FBI, the=20 nerve center remains in bureau headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue, where=20 Freeh=20 has built a lasting part of his legacy. For years in the movies, the FBI has been depicted as being on the cutting=20 edge of technology. But the bureau did not have the type of "situation room"= =20 that existed in Hollywood fiction. It wasn't until 1998, at Freeh's insistence, that the Strategic Information=20 and Operations Center (SIOC) was born, a sleek and secure 40,000-square-foot= =20 colony within the bureau composed of elite analysts, ultra-fast computers,=20 global teleconferencing screens, top-secret phones and a bank of giant=20 televised=20 images with up-to-the minute news. Its James Bond decor runs to stainless steel floorboards and digital=20 time-zone clocks. In a crisis, Freeh and his closest aides become residents=20 of=20 SIOC, conferring with the White House, Pentagon, CIA, foreign governments an= d=20 the FBI's network of field offices at home and abroad. SIOC can handle four=20 international crises at once. A few congressional critics consider the FBI's growth abroad a waste of=20 taxpayers' money. Former House Appropriations Committee chairman Bob=20 Livingston=20 (R-La.) slowed the opening of FBI offices abroad in the 1990s by withholding= =20 funding. "I just did not feel, and still do not feel, the FBI, whose charter is to be= =20 our domestic and paramount federal law enforcement agency, has any business=20 spreading themselves so thin all over the world," Livingston said. "I would=20 feel=20 better off if they were doing their job better here." FBI officials strongly disagree. "We have got to be very vigilant to make sure we protect the American=20 people," said former FBI deputy director Robert M. Bryant. "Anybody who went= =20 to=20 Oklahoma City and saw that building, or went to Khobar Towers and saw those=20 families, or saw Pan Am 103 on the ground in Lockerbie, Scotland, does not=20 underestimate the ability of people . . . to do harm." Some view the expansion as a power grab, particularly since the Drug=20 Enforcement Administration, the U.S. Customs Service, the Bureau of Alcohol,= =20 Tobacco and Firearms and the State Department have had personnel abroad for=20 years. "There is a lot of pushing and shoving to get into the game," Marenin=20 said. Freeh and other FBI officials draw a sharp distinction between their primary= =20 mission abroad – gathering evidence to make criminal cases – and= =20 the CIA's role,=20 collecting intelligence for decision makers. The FBI also gathers=20 intelligence=20 with a goal of preventing terrorist acts. The agencies overlap in their=20 pursuit=20 of information about terrorism. After World War II, so the apocryphal tale goes, FBI agents posted=20 temporarily in South America drove the bureau's cars into the water rather=20 than=20 turn them over to the CIA. While that kind of fierce rivalry continued for=20 decades, it is fading away. CIA Director George J. Tenet said the two=20 agencies=20 have never worked together better, and he praised the bureau's overseas=20 growth. "Our relationship is seamless in many areas," Tenet said. Friendly Governments Despite the allegations of torture and the moral issues posed, FBI officials= =20 say they need relationships with the Saudis, Yemenis and others in the Middl= e=20 East to fight terrorism effectively. The methods that worked so well for the= =20 FBI=20 in its pursuit of gangsters Al Capone, John Dillinger and others are simple=20 compared to the complex challenge of pursuing an international terrorist suc= h=20 as=20 Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden has proven virtually immune to the FBI's traditional methods of=20 wiretapping and informants. Worse for the FBI, bin Laden is the head of an=20 anti-Western radical Islamic movement that experts say would survive even if= =20 he=20 were killed or captured. Born in Saudi Arabia in 1957 into a wealthy family with a construction=20 empire, bin Laden joined the mujahedeen resistance to the Soviet invasion of= =20 Afghanistan in 1979. The 10-year guerrilla war against Russia taught him tha= t=20 fanatical violence could triumph over even a superpower. He and other Afghanistan alumni increasingly targeted the United States afte= r=20 the 1991 Persian Gulf War. An FBI investigation of bin Laden linked him to=20 the=20 1993 World Trade Center bombing in New York and the 1996 Khobar Towers=20 attack. Bin Laden gained worldwide notoriety with the Aug. 7, 1998, simultaneous=20 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. They were the deadlies= t=20 terrorist acts of the past decade, killing hundreds and wounding thousands. The FBI rushed to East Africa to assist in the investigation, which included= =20 more than 1,000 interviews. The FBI's investigation led to bin Laden's=20 indictment in New York for masterminding the explosions and put him on the=20 top=20 of the FBI's "Most Wanted" list. Bin Laden also is a prime suspect in the=20 recent=20 USS Cole bombing in Yemen. Inside SIOC, FBI analysts work in a special room 24-hours-a-day alongside a=20 poster of bin Laden that proclaims him "The Face of Evil." The room is=20 off-limits to visitors. The FBI's pursuit of bin Laden has led to the capture of nine of the 17=20 indicted suspects in the East Africa case, including one who has agreed to=20 explain how bin Laden and his terrorist network move people and explosives=20 around the world. But the FBI has not been able to apprehend bin Laden, who=20 reportedly lives in Afghanistan under the protection of the ruling Taliban=20 militia. In large part, the FBI depends upon "friendly foreign governments," not only= =20 to arrest and extradite fugitives but also to permit the bureau to operate o= n=20 their soil. Afghanistan is not a friendly foreign government. Freeh believes the FBI cannot bring the killers of Americans to justice=20 without doing business with governments such as Yemen, Saudi Arabia and=20 Jordan=20 whose justice systems are antithetical to American principles. Last December, Jordanian security forces, with help from the CIA and FBI,=20 foiled a terrorist plot to kill American and Israeli tourists at two=20 locations. "People say, 'I thought the CIA was overseas and FBI was in the U.S,' " said= =20 Scott Jessee, an FBI agent based in Tel Aviv who took part in the Jordanian=20 probe. "It has become absolutely necessary to work these issues with the res= t=20 of=20 the world. You cannot work them in a vacuum. You cannot work them alone. Tha= t=20 is=20 why we, the FBI, are overseas." Monitoring Interrogation After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, Hani Al-Sayegh fled Saudi Arabia for=20 Canada, as Saudi authorities began rounding up hundreds of members of the=20 Shiite=20 minority. He feared that he would end up beheaded, his lawyers said. Others=20 said=20 Al-Sayegh might have been a possible witness or suspect in the bombing. As Canadian authorities were on the verge of returning him to Saudi Arabia,=20 Al-Sayegh agreed to cooperate with the FBI, sources said. But after arriving= =20 in=20 the United States and retaining Frank Carter, a criminal defense lawyer,=20 Al-Sayegh refused to cooperate and asked for asylum. Freeh then negotiated the secret deal permitting FBI agents to watch=20 Al-Sayegh's interrogation in Saudi Arabia. Senior Justice Department officials said arrangements were made to monitor=20 Al-Sayegh's treatment, although they declined to offer details. Ivan Yacub, an immigration lawyer who tried to prevent Al-Sayegh's return to= =20 Saudi Arabia, said Attorney General Janet Reno conferred with someone at the= =20 State Department, who received assurances from the Saudis that Al-Sayegh=20 would=20 not be tortured. But Yacub is skeptical. "The State Department report on Saudi Arabia talks about 200 people being=20 incarcerated and tortured for the same attack. So why believe they wouldn't=20 torture this guy?" Yacub said. Ali AlAhmed, a 33-year-old Saudi-born man who befriended Al-Sayegh in Canada= ,=20 recently briefed State Department officials on alleged religious persecution= =20 in=20 Saudi Arabia. AlAhmed has established an organization in Northern Virginia t= o=20 publicize alleged abuses. He said Al-Sayegh has been subjected to taleeq, a=20 painful torture where a person is hung from his handcuffs on a steel door,=20 leaving the hands extremely swollen. Saudi officials have denied requests from Amnesty International to visit=20 Al-Sayegh in prison. They also said neither he nor anybody else has been=20 tortured in jail, calling that a myth perpetuated by opponents of the Saudi=20 government. His wife, Hakima Al-Sayegh, is permitted to visit her husband roughly once a= =20 month. She speaks to him through a glass panel in the presence of guards.=20 Recently, when asked whether her husband's hands appeared swollen, she said,= =20 "There are no traces of swelling in his hands." She knows that her telephone is monitored. During a recent telephone=20 interview, Hakima said: "Every time I go, I see his health is better. . .?.=20 When=20 he returned from the U.S., his glasses were really in bad shape. They have=20 provided him with a new pair of glasses." Staff writer Nora Boustany contributed to this report.
=A9 2000 The Washington Post
Poo-sa'-key 960 Division Street Bandon, OR =20 97411 541.347.9848 poosakey@earthlink.net
----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc04.mx.aol.com (rly-yc04.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.36])=20 by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:56:05=20 -0400 Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net= =20 [207.217.120.74]) by rly-yc04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct= =20 2000 11:55:40 -0400 Received: from iceberg (1Cust64.tnt2.coos-bay.or.da.uu.net [63.25.154.64]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA2276= 7; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:55:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000001c041c9$23d3f820$409a193f@iceberg.com> Reply-To: "Poosakey" From: "Poosakey" To: "Ted Glick" , "Sue Shaffer" , "Richard Mato" , "Marion Harris" , "Leiah and Linda" , "John Kelly" , "Joe Vocht" , "Frederic Whitehurst" , "Francis Eatherington" , "Donna Yellow Owl" , "Charlotte Wheeler" , "Brenda Hill" , "Bobbi Stewart" Subject: 10-29-00 =3D WP; new global role puts FBI in unsavory company Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:16:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_0007_01C04180.85177420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 >> --part1_e0.b99e5fb.272de6d8_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc04.mx.aol.com (rly-yc04.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.36]) by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.23) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:56:05 -0400 Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by rly-yc04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:55:40 -0400 Received: from iceberg (1Cust64.tnt2.coos-bay.or.da.uu.net [63.25.154.64]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22767; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:55:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000001c041c9$23d3f820$409a193f@iceberg.com> Reply-To: "Poosakey" From: "Poosakey" To: "Ted Glick" , "Sue Shaffer" , "Richard Mato" , "Marion Harris" , "Leiah and Linda" , "John Kelly" , "Joe Vocht" , "Frederic Whitehurst" , "Francis Eatherington" , "Donna Yellow Owl" , "Charlotte Wheeler" , "Brenda Hill" , "Bobbi Stewart" Subject: 10-29-00 = WP; new global role puts FBI in unsavory company Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:16:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04180.85177420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04180.85177420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New Global Role Puts FBI in Unsavory Company=20 By David A. Vise Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday , October 29, 2000 ; Page A01=20 When a terrorist blast killed 17 sailors aboard the USS Cole earlier this=20 month, more than 100 FBI agents, laboratory experts and forensics specialist= s=20 swarmed into Yemen. Among the FBI horde was Director Louis J. Freeh. Freeh has been a familiar face overseas as he has transformed the bureau fro= m=20 a domestic crime-fighting corps targeted at organized crime and bank robbers= =20 into a global police agency with an anti-terrorism mission and a permanent=20 presence in 44 nations. "We have the ability to work, literally, every place in the world," Freeh=20 declared recently. That expansion has sometimes put the FBI in unsavory company. As the bureau=20 extends its crime-fighting network to places such as Yemen and Saudi Arabia,= =20 it confronts police tactics, including torture and a lack of due process,=20 that would be barred in the United States. Such practices are sharply at odd= s=20 with Freeh's oft-stated message about the FBI's need to respect "human=20 dignity" and the tenets of democracy while fighting crime. But last year Freeh made a secret deal with Saudi Prince Naif, brother of=20 King Fahd, to return a Saudi Arabian bombing suspect being held in a federal= =20 prison in Atlanta to a jail in Riyadh where human rights groups say torture=20 is routinely used. Freeh's pact permitted FBI agents to watch Hani=20 Al-Sayegh's interrogation through a one-way mirror and submit questions to=20 his Saudi inquisitors, officials familiar with the arrangement said. Al-Sayegh was a suspect in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing that claimed the=20 lives of 19 U.S. servicemen in Saudi Arabia. He had reneged on his pledge to= =20 cooperate with U.S. law enforcement authorities. "It is really a dirty little case," said Clarisa Bencomo, a researcher with=20 Human Rights Watch who has monitored Al-Sayegh's case closely. To Freeh's=20 FBI, she said, it seems that "the information that may come out of this is=20 more useful or worthwhile to them than the possibility of this guy being=20 tortured or executed." After a U.S. immigration judge officially ordered the Saudi suspect sent=20 back, Freeh merely was ensuring that FBI agents would have access to whateve= r=20 information the Saudis obtained, the officials said. A friend of Al-Sayegh says that he has been tortured in prison, an allegatio= n=20 that Saudi officials deny. FBI officials say they have not seen any=20 indication that Al-Sayegh has been tortured. "To suggest we are not very mindful of these concerns would be wrong," said=20 FBI Assistant Director John Collingwood. "We collect information and seek=20 witnesses to present in U.S. courts subject to all the scrutiny and=20 challenges inherent in that process." But agents say privately that when entering a foreign culture to do police=20 work they do not have control over how prisoners are treated and must tread=20 lightly. "They do not ask, 'How did you question them?' They will just ask, 'Is it=20 good information?'?" said Otwin Marenin, a criminal justice professor at=20 Washington State University who has studied the FBI's overseas practices.=20 "You learn how to live with that part even though you wouldn't do it=20 yourself." Yemeni interrogation techniques have been criticized by no less than the=20 State Department, which found in its most recent human rights report that=20 Yemen's security forces arbitrarily torture prisoners, sometimes fatally. Bu= t=20 the Yemenis also have allowed FBI agents to submit questions. They have=20 shared some of the results of their interrogations, but the FBI is pressing=20 for even greater access, sources said. U.S. law does not prohibit the bureau from developing close ties with foreig= n=20 governments whose practices, laws and ethics differ dramatically from those=20 in the United States. Freeh and others argue that the FBI's approach is=20 necessary to save American lives. With information from the Saudi government, "we were able to thwart at least= =20 a couple of major incidents," said Bassem Youssef, who served as the FBI's=20 top agent in Saudi Arabia until last summer. FBI Academy in Budapest >From his early days as FBI director in 1993, Freeh had a vision of where he=20 wanted to take the bureau: abroad. As a prosecutor in the vaunted Southern=20 District of New York, Freeh concluded that he needed to go global to fight=20 crime after pursuing a complex drug case that tracked back to Sicily. A down-to-earth former FBI agent with a law degree from Fordham University=20 and a federal judgeship on his re?sume?, the high-energy, 50-year-old Freeh=20 likes to go jogging with new agents and gets so engrossed in the details of=20 big cases that he is jokingly referred to as the "presidentially appointed=20 case agent" when an international crime occurs. Freeh is a frenetic globe-trotter good at networking. Many foreign police=20 agency chiefs and some heads of state now view a visit with the FBI director= =20 as a compulsory stop when they are in Washington. Freeh is quick to point out that the globalization of the bureau, whether it= =20 is in fighting terrorism, organized crime, money laundering or computer=20 hacking, mirrors the globalization of crime. He argues passionately about th= e=20 need for FBI agents on the ground in countries around the world, building=20 "cop-to-cop" relationships. He wants his agents abroad, known in FBI parlanc= e=20 as "Legats" (short for legal attache?s), to field requests for information=20 from FBI offices in the United States and to handle inquiries from their hos= t=20 countries. FBI agents are posted today not only in London and Paris - once dismissed as= =20 the "wine and cheese circuit" - but also in Moscow, Riyadh, throughout=20 Africa, Eastern Europe, Asia and South America. Under Freeh, the bureau has=20 more than doubled its counterterrorism budget, to $547 million. And the FBI=20 now runs a training academy for foreign police officers in Budapest. "This is the forward deployed part of the FBI, and it gives us a perimeter o= f=20 defense and an ability to work directly in liaison with our [foreign]=20 colleagues on matters of grave importance," said Freeh, whose 10-year term=20 runs out in 2003. If the agents abroad constitute the frontiers of the 21st century FBI, the=20 nerve center remains in bureau headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue, where=20 Freeh has built a lasting part of his legacy. For years in the movies, the FBI has been depicted as being on the cutting=20 edge of technology. But the bureau did not have the type of "situation room"= =20 that existed in Hollywood fiction. It wasn't until 1998, at Freeh's insistence, that the Strategic Information=20 and Operations Center (SIOC) was born, a sleek and secure 40,000-square-foot= =20 colony within the bureau composed of elite analysts, ultra-fast computers,=20 global teleconferencing screens, top-secret phones and a bank of giant=20 televised images with up-to-the minute news. Its James Bond decor runs to stainless steel floorboards and digital=20 time-zone clocks. In a crisis, Freeh and his closest aides become residents=20 of SIOC, conferring with the White House, Pentagon, CIA, foreign governments= =20 and the FBI's network of field offices at home and abroad. SIOC can handle=20 four international crises at once. A few congressional critics consider the FBI's growth abroad a waste of=20 taxpayers' money. Former House Appropriations Committee chairman Bob=20 Livingston (R-La.) slowed the opening of FBI offices abroad in the 1990s by=20 withholding funding. "I just did not feel, and still do not feel, the FBI, whose charter is to be= =20 our domestic and paramount federal law enforcement agency, has any business=20 spreading themselves so thin all over the world," Livingston said. "I would=20 feel better off if they were doing their job better here." FBI officials strongly disagree. "We have got to be very vigilant to make sure we protect the American=20 people," said former FBI deputy director Robert M. Bryant. "Anybody who went= =20 to Oklahoma City and saw that building, or went to Khobar Towers and saw=20 those families, or saw Pan Am 103 on the ground in Lockerbie, Scotland, does= =20 not underestimate the ability of people . . . to do harm." Some view the expansion as a power grab, particularly since the Drug=20 Enforcement Administration, the U.S. Customs Service, the Bureau of Alcohol,= =20 Tobacco and Firearms and the State Department have had personnel abroad for=20 years. "There is a lot of pushing and shoving to get into the game," Marenin said. Freeh and other FBI officials draw a sharp distinction between their primary= =20 mission abroad - gathering evidence to make criminal cases - and the CIA's=20 role, collecting intelligence for decision makers. The FBI also gathers=20 intelligence with a goal of preventing terrorist acts. The agencies overlap=20 in their pursuit of information about terrorism. After World War II, so the apocryphal tale goes, FBI agents posted=20 temporarily in South America drove the bureau's cars into the water rather=20 than turn them over to the CIA. While that kind of fierce rivalry continued=20 for decades, it is fading away. CIA Director George J. Tenet said the two=20 agencies have never worked together better, and he praised the bureau's=20 overseas growth. "Our relationship is seamless in many areas," Tenet said. Friendly Governments Despite the allegations of torture and the moral issues posed, FBI officials= =20 say they need relationships with the Saudis, Yemenis and others in the Middl= e=20 East to fight terrorism effectively. The methods that worked so well for the= =20 FBI in its pursuit of gangsters Al Capone, John Dillinger and others are=20 simple compared to the complex challenge of pursuing an international=20 terrorist such as Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden has proven virtually immune to the FBI's traditional methods of=20 wiretapping and informants. Worse for the FBI, bin Laden is the head of an=20 anti-Western radical Islamic movement that experts say would survive even if= =20 he were killed or captured. Born in Saudi Arabia in 1957 into a wealthy family with a construction=20 empire, bin Laden joined the mujahedeen resistance to the Soviet invasion of= =20 Afghanistan in 1979. The 10-year guerrilla war against Russia taught him tha= t=20 fanatical violence could triumph over even a superpower. He and other Afghanistan alumni increasingly targeted the United States afte= r=20 the 1991 Persian Gulf War. An FBI investigation of bin Laden linked him to=20 the 1993 World Trade Center bombing in New York and the 1996 Khobar Towers=20 attack. Bin Laden gained worldwide notoriety with the Aug. 7, 1998, simultaneous=20 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. They were the deadlies= t=20 terrorist acts of the past decade, killing hundreds and wounding thousands. The FBI rushed to East Africa to assist in the investigation, which included= =20 more than 1,000 interviews. The FBI's investigation led to bin Laden's=20 indictment in New York for masterminding the explosions and put him on the=20 top of the FBI's "Most Wanted" list. Bin Laden also is a prime suspect in th= e=20 recent USS Cole bombing in Yemen. Inside SIOC, FBI analysts work in a special room 24-hours-a-day alongside a=20 poster of bin Laden that proclaims him "The Face of Evil." The room is=20 off-limits to visitors. The FBI's pursuit of bin Laden has led to the capture of nine of the 17=20 indicted suspects in the East Africa case, including one who has agreed to=20 explain how bin Laden and his terrorist network move people and explosives=20 around the world. But the FBI has not been able to apprehend bin Laden, who=20 reportedly lives in Afghanistan under the protection of the ruling Taliban=20 militia. In large part, the FBI depends upon "friendly foreign governments," not only= =20 to arrest and extradite fugitives but also to permit the bureau to operate o= n=20 their soil. Afghanistan is not a friendly foreign government. Freeh believes the FBI cannot bring the killers of Americans to justice=20 without doing business with governments such as Yemen, Saudi Arabia and=20 Jordan whose justice systems are antithetical to American principles. Last December, Jordanian security forces, with help from the CIA and FBI,=20 foiled a terrorist plot to kill American and Israeli tourists at two=20 locations. "People say, 'I thought the CIA was overseas and FBI was in the U.S,' " said= =20 Scott Jessee, an FBI agent based in Tel Aviv who took part in the Jordanian=20 probe. "It has become absolutely necessary to work these issues with the res= t=20 of the world. You cannot work them in a vacuum. You cannot work them alone.=20 That is why we, the FBI, are overseas." Monitoring Interrogation After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, Hani Al-Sayegh fled Saudi Arabia for=20 Canada, as Saudi authorities began rounding up hundreds of members of the=20 Shiite minority. He feared that he would end up beheaded, his lawyers said.=20 Others said Al-Sayegh might have been a possible witness or suspect in the=20 bombing. As Canadian authorities were on the verge of returning him to Saudi Arabia,=20 Al-Sayegh agreed to cooperate with the FBI, sources said. But after arriving= =20 in the United States and retaining Frank Carter, a criminal defense lawyer,=20 Al-Sayegh refused to cooperate and asked for asylum. Freeh then negotiated the secret deal permitting FBI agents to watch=20 Al-Sayegh's interrogation in Saudi Arabia. Senior Justice Department officials said arrangements were made to monitor=20 Al-Sayegh's treatment, although they declined to offer details. Ivan Yacub, an immigration lawyer who tried to prevent Al-Sayegh's return to= =20 Saudi Arabia, said Attorney General Janet Reno conferred with someone at the= =20 State Department, who received assurances from the Saudis that Al-Sayegh=20 would not be tortured. But Yacub is skeptical. "The State Department report on Saudi Arabia talks about 200 people being=20 incarcerated and tortured for the same attack. So why believe they wouldn't=20 torture this guy?" Yacub said. Ali AlAhmed, a 33-year-old Saudi-born man who befriended Al-Sayegh in Canada= ,=20 recently briefed State Department officials on alleged religious persecution= =20 in Saudi Arabia. AlAhmed has established an organization in Northern Virgini= a=20 to publicize alleged abuses. He said Al-Sayegh has been subjected to taleeq,= =20 a painful torture where a person is hung from his handcuffs on a steel door,= =20 leaving the hands extremely swollen. Saudi officials have denied requests from Amnesty International to visit=20 Al-Sayegh in prison. They also said neither he nor anybody else has been=20 tortured in jail, calling that a myth perpetuated by opponents of the Saudi=20 government. His wife, Hakima Al-Sayegh, is permitted to visit her husband roughly once a= =20 month. She speaks to him through a glass panel in the presence of guards.=20 Recently, when asked whether her husband's hands appeared swollen, she said,= =20 "There are no traces of swelling in his hands." She knows that her telephone is monitored. During a recent telephone=20 interview, Hakima said: "Every time I go, I see his health is better. . .?.=20 When he returned from the U.S., his glasses were really in bad shape. They=20 have provided him with a new pair of glasses." Staff writer Nora Boustany contributed to this report. =A9 2000 The Washington Post=20 Poo-sa'-key 960 Division Street Bandon, OR 97411 541.347.9848 poosakey@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04180.85177420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable







New Global Role Puts FBI in Unsavory Company=20

By David A. Vise
Washington Post Staff Writer
S= unday ,=20
October 29, 2000 ; Page A01


When a terrorist blast killed 17 sailors aboard the USS Cole earlier=20= this=20
month, more than 100 FBI agents, laboratory experts and forensics specia= lists=20
swarmed into Yemen. Among the FBI horde was Director Louis J. Freeh.


Freeh has been a familiar face overseas as he has transformed the bur= eau from=20
a domestic crime-fighting corps targeted at organized crime and bank rob= bers=20
into a global police agency with an anti-terrorism mission and a permane= nt=20
presence in 44 nations.


"We have the ability to work, literally, every place in the world," F= reeh=20
declared recently.


That expansion has sometimes put the FBI in unsavory company. As the=20= bureau=20
extends its crime-fighting network to places such as Yemen and Saudi Ara= bia,=20
it=20
confronts police tactics, including torture and a lack of due process, t= hat=20
would be barred in the United States. Such practices are sharply at odds= with=20
Freeh's oft-stated message about the FBI's need to respect "human dignit= y"=20
and=20
the tenets of democracy while fighting crime.


But last year Freeh made a secret deal with Saudi Prince Naif, brothe= r of=20
King Fahd, to return a Saudi Arabian bombing suspect being held in a fed= eral=20
prison in Atlanta to a jail in Riyadh where human rights groups say tort= ure=20
is=20
routinely used. Freeh's pact permitted FBI agents to watch Hani Al-Sayeg= h's=20
interrogation through a one-way mirror and submit questions to his Saudi= =20
inquisitors, officials familiar with the arrangement said.


Al-Sayegh was a suspect in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing that claime= d the=20
lives of 19 U.S. servicemen in Saudi Arabia. He had reneged on his pledg= e to=20
cooperate with U.S. law enforcement authorities.


"It is really a dirty little case," said Clarisa Bencomo, a researche= r with=20
Human Rights Watch who has monitored Al-Sayegh's case closely. To Freeh'= s=20
FBI,=20
she said, it seems that "the information that may come out of this is mo= re=20
useful or worthwhile to them than the possibility of this guy being tort= ured=20
or=20
executed."


After a U.S. immigration judge officially ordered the Saudi suspect s= ent=20
back, Freeh merely was ensuring that FBI agents would have access to wha= tever=20
information the Saudis obtained, the officials said.


A friend of Al-Sayegh says that he has been tortured in prison, an al= legation=20
that Saudi officials deny. FBI officials say they have not seen any=20
indication=20
that Al-Sayegh has been tortured.


"To suggest we are not very mindful of these concerns would be wrong,= " said=20
FBI Assistant Director John Collingwood. "We collect information and see= k=20
witnesses to present in U.S. courts subject to all the scrutiny and=20
challenges=20
inherent in that process."


But agents say privately that when entering a foreign culture to do p= olice=20
work they do not have control over how prisoners are treated and must tr= ead=20
lightly.


"They do not ask, 'How did you question them?' They will just ask, 'I= s it=20
good information?'?" said Otwin Marenin, a criminal justice professor at= =20
Washington State University who has studied the FBI's overseas practices= .=20
"You=20
learn how to live with that part even though you wouldn't do it yourself= ."


Yemeni interrogation techniques have been criticized by no less than=20= the=20
State Department, which found in its most recent human rights report tha= t=20
Yemen's security forces arbitrarily torture prisoners, sometimes fatally= . But=20
the Yemenis also have allowed FBI agents to submit questions. They have=20
shared=20
some of the results of their interrogations, but the FBI is pressing for= even=20
greater access, sources said.


U.S. law does not prohibit the bureau from developing close ties with= foreign=20
governments whose practices, laws and ethics differ dramatically from th= ose=20
in=20
the United States. Freeh and others argue that the FBI's approach is=20
necessary=20
to save American lives.


With information from the Saudi government, "we were able to thwart a= t least=20
a couple of major incidents," said Bassem Youssef, who served as the FBI= 's=20
top=20
agent in Saudi Arabia until last summer.


FBI Academy in Budapest


From his early days as FBI director in 1993, Freeh had a vision of wh= ere he=20
wanted to take the bureau: abroad. As a prosecutor in the vaunted Southe= rn=20
District of New York, Freeh concluded that he needed to go global to fig= ht=20
crime=20
after pursuing a complex drug case that tracked back to Sicily.


A down-to-earth former FBI agent with a law degree from Fordham Unive= rsity=20
and a federal judgeship on his re?sume?, the high-energy, 50-year-old Fr= eeh=20
likes to go jogging with new agents and gets so engrossed in the details= of=20
big=20
cases that he is jokingly referred to as the "presidentially appointed c= ase=20
agent" when an international crime occurs.


Freeh is a frenetic globe-trotter good at networking. Many foreign po= lice=20
agency chiefs and some heads of state now view a visit with the FBI dire= ctor=20
as=20
a compulsory stop when they are in Washington.


Freeh is quick to point out that the globalization of the bureau, whe= ther it=20
is in fighting terrorism, organized crime, money laundering or computer=20
hacking,=20
mirrors the globalization of crime. He argues passionately about the nee= d for=20
FBI agents on the ground in countries around the world, building "cop-to= -cop"=20
relationships. He wants his agents abroad, known in FBI parlance as "Leg= ats"=20
(short for legal attache?s), to field requests for information from FBI=20
offices=20
in the United States and to handle inquiries from their host countries.<= /P>

FBI agents are posted today not only in London and Paris &#8211;=20= once=20
dismissed as=20
the "wine and cheese circuit" &#8211; but also in Moscow, Riyadh, th= roughout=20
Africa,=20
Eastern Europe, Asia and South America. Under Freeh, the bureau has more= than=20
doubled its counterterrorism budget, to $547 million. And the FBI now ru= ns a=20
training academy for foreign police officers in Budapest.


"This is the forward deployed part of the FBI, and it gives us a peri= meter of=20
defense and an ability to work directly in liaison with our [foreign]=20
colleagues=20
on matters of grave importance," said Freeh, whose 10-year term runs out= in=20
2003.


If the agents abroad constitute the frontiers of the 21st century FBI= , the=20
nerve center remains in bureau headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue, wher= e=20
Freeh=20
has built a lasting part of his legacy.


For years in the movies, the FBI has been depicted as being on the cu= tting=20
edge of technology. But the bureau did not have the type of "situation r= oom"=20
that existed in Hollywood fiction.


It wasn't until 1998, at Freeh's insistence, that the Strategic Infor= mation=20
and Operations Center (SIOC) was born, a sleek and secure 40,000-square-= foot=20
colony within the bureau composed of elite analysts, ultra-fast computer= s,=20
global teleconferencing screens, top-secret phones and a bank of giant=20
televised=20
images with up-to-the minute news.


Its James Bond decor runs to stainless steel floorboards and digital=20
time-zone clocks. In a crisis, Freeh and his closest aides become reside= nts=20
of=20
SIOC, conferring with the White House, Pentagon, CIA, foreign government= s and=20
the FBI's network of field offices at home and abroad. SIOC can handle f= our=20
international crises at once.


A few congressional critics consider the FBI's growth abroad a waste=20= of=20
taxpayers' money. Former House Appropriations Committee chairman Bob=20
Livingston=20
(R-La.) slowed the opening of FBI offices abroad in the 1990s by withhol= ding=20
funding.


"I just did not feel, and still do not feel, the FBI, whose charter i= s to be=20
our domestic and paramount federal law enforcement agency, has any busin= ess=20
spreading themselves so thin all over the world," Livingston said. "I wo= uld=20
feel=20
better off if they were doing their job better here."


FBI officials strongly disagree.


"We have got to be very vigilant to make sure we protect the American= =20
people," said former FBI deputy director Robert M. Bryant. "Anybody who=20= went=20
to=20
Oklahoma City and saw that building, or went to Khobar Towers and saw th= ose=20
families, or saw Pan Am 103 on the ground in Lockerbie, Scotland, does n= ot=20
underestimate the ability of people . . . to do harm."


Some view the expansion as a power grab, particularly since the Drug=20
Enforcement Administration, the U.S. Customs Service, the Bureau of Alco= hol,=20
Tobacco and Firearms and the State Department have had personnel abroad=20= for=20
years.


"There is a lot of pushing and shoving to get into the game," Marenin= =20
said.


Freeh and other FBI officials draw a sharp distinction between their=20= primary=20
mission abroad &#8211; gathering evidence to make criminal cases &am= p;#8211; and=20
the CIA's role,=20
collecting intelligence for decision makers. The FBI also gathers=20
intelligence=20
with a goal of preventing terrorist acts. The agencies overlap in their=20
pursuit=20
of information about terrorism.


After World War II, so the apocryphal tale goes, FBI agents posted=20
temporarily in South America drove the bureau's cars into the water rath= er=20
than=20
turn them over to the CIA. While that kind of fierce rivalry continued f= or=20
decades, it is fading away. CIA Director George J. Tenet said the two=20
agencies=20
have never worked together better, and he praised the bureau's overseas=20
growth.


"Our relationship is seamless in many areas," Tenet said.


Friendly Governments


Despite the allegations of torture and the moral issues posed, FBI of= ficials=20
say they need relationships with the Saudis, Yemenis and others in the M= iddle=20
East to fight terrorism effectively. The methods that worked so well for= the=20
FBI=20
in its pursuit of gangsters Al Capone, John Dillinger and others are sim= ple=20
compared to the complex challenge of pursuing an international terrorist= such=20
as=20
Osama bin Laden.


Bin Laden has proven virtually immune to the FBI's traditional method= s of=20
wiretapping and informants. Worse for the FBI, bin Laden is the head of=20= an=20
anti-Western radical Islamic movement that experts say would survive eve= n if=20
he=20
were killed or captured.


Born in Saudi Arabia in 1957 into a wealthy family with a constructio= n=20
empire, bin Laden joined the mujahedeen resistance to the Soviet invasio= n of=20
Afghanistan in 1979. The 10-year guerrilla war against Russia taught him= that=20
fanatical violence could triumph over even a superpower.


He and other Afghanistan alumni increasingly targeted the United Stat= es after=20
the 1991 Persian Gulf War. An FBI investigation of bin Laden linked him=20= to=20
the=20
1993 World Trade Center bombing in New York and the 1996 Khobar Towers=20
attack.


Bin Laden gained worldwide notoriety with the Aug. 7, 1998, simultane= ous=20
bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. They were the dead= liest=20
terrorist acts of the past decade, killing hundreds and wounding thousan= ds.


The FBI rushed to East Africa to assist in the investigation, which i= ncluded=20
more than 1,000 interviews. The FBI's investigation led to bin Laden's=20
indictment in New York for masterminding the explosions and put him on t= he=20
top=20
of the FBI's "Most Wanted" list. Bin Laden also is a prime suspect in th= e=20
recent=20
USS Cole bombing in Yemen.


Inside SIOC, FBI analysts work in a special room 24-hours-a-day along= side a=20
poster of bin Laden that proclaims him "The Face of Evil." The room is=20
off-limits to visitors.


The FBI's pursuit of bin Laden has led to the capture of nine of the=20= 17=20
indicted suspects in the East Africa case, including one who has agreed=20= to=20
explain how bin Laden and his terrorist network move people and explosiv= es=20
around the world. But the FBI has not been able to apprehend bin Laden,=20= who=20
reportedly lives in Afghanistan under the protection of the ruling Talib= an=20
militia.


In large part, the FBI depends upon "friendly foreign governments," n= ot only=20
to arrest and extradite fugitives but also to permit the bureau to opera= te on=20
their soil. Afghanistan is not a friendly foreign government.


Freeh believes the FBI cannot bring the killers of Americans to justi= ce=20
without doing business with governments such as Yemen, Saudi Arabia and=20
Jordan=20
whose justice systems are antithetical to American principles.


Last December, Jordanian security forces, with help from the CIA and=20= FBI,=20
foiled a terrorist plot to kill American and Israeli tourists at two=20
locations.


"People say, 'I thought the CIA was overseas and FBI was in the U.S,'= " said=20
Scott Jessee, an FBI agent based in Tel Aviv who took part in the Jordan= ian=20
probe. "It has become absolutely necessary to work these issues with the= rest=20
of=20
the world. You cannot work them in a vacuum. You cannot work them alone.= That=20
is=20
why we, the FBI, are overseas."


Monitoring Interrogation


After the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, Hani Al-Sayegh fled Saudi Arabi= a for=20
Canada, as Saudi authorities began rounding up hundreds of members of th= e=20
Shiite=20
minority. He feared that he would end up beheaded, his lawyers said. Oth= ers=20
said=20
Al-Sayegh might have been a possible witness or suspect in the bombing.<= /P>

As Canadian authorities were on the verge of returning him to Saudi A= rabia,=20
Al-Sayegh agreed to cooperate with the FBI, sources said. But after arri= ving=20
in=20
the United States and retaining Frank Carter, a criminal defense lawyer,= =20
Al-Sayegh refused to cooperate and asked for asylum.


Freeh then negotiated the secret deal permitting FBI agents to watch=20
Al-Sayegh's interrogation in Saudi Arabia.


Senior Justice Department officials said arrangements were made to mo= nitor=20
Al-Sayegh's treatment, although they declined to offer details.


Ivan Yacub, an immigration lawyer who tried to prevent Al-Sayegh's re= turn to=20
Saudi Arabia, said Attorney General Janet Reno conferred with someone at= the=20
State Department, who received assurances from the Saudis that Al-Sayegh= =20
would=20
not be tortured. But Yacub is skeptical.


"The State Department report on Saudi Arabia talks about 200 people b= eing=20
incarcerated and tortured for the same attack. So why believe they would= n't=20
torture this guy?" Yacub said.


Ali AlAhmed, a 33-year-old Saudi-born man who befriended Al-Sayegh in= Canada,=20
recently briefed State Department officials on alleged religious persecu= tion=20
in=20
Saudi Arabia. AlAhmed has established an organization in Northern Virgin= ia to=20
publicize alleged abuses. He said Al-Sayegh has been subjected to taleeq= , a=20
painful torture where a person is hung from his handcuffs on a steel doo= r,=20
leaving the hands extremely swollen.


Saudi officials have denied requests from Amnesty International to vi= sit=20
Al-Sayegh in prison. They also said neither he nor anybody else has been= =20
tortured in jail, calling that a myth perpetuated by opponents of the Sa= udi=20
government.


His wife, Hakima Al-Sayegh, is permitted to visit her husband roughly= once a=20
month. She speaks to him through a glass panel in the presence of guards= .=20
Recently, when asked whether her husband's hands appeared swollen, she s= aid,=20
"There are no traces of swelling in his hands."


She knows that her telephone is monitored. During a recent telephone=20
interview, Hakima said: "Every time I go, I see his health is better. .=20= .?.=20
When=20
he returned from the U.S., his glasses were really in bad shape. They ha= ve=20
provided him with a new pair of glasses."


Staff writer Nora Boustany contributed to this report.




=A9 2000 The Washington Post

Poo-sa'-key
960 Division Street
Bandon, OR&nbs= p;=20
97411
541.347.9848
poosakey@earthlink.net
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C04180.85177420-- --part1_e0.b99e5fb.272de6d8_boundary-- From forens-owner Sun Oct 29 16:13:00 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21679 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:13:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from gw.cs.nsw.gov.au (gw1.cs.nsw.gov.au [152.76.0.130]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21674 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:12:57 -0500 (EST) From: jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au Received: from funnelweb.cs.nsw.gov.au ([152.76.2.177]) by gw1.gw.cs.nsw.gov.au with ESMTP id <115202>; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:18:26 +1100 Received: from iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au ([152.76.123.2]) by funnelweb.cs.nsw.gov.au (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with ESMTP id au for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:12:14 +1100 Received: from Spooler by iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au (Mercury/32 v2.16); 30 Oct 00 08:10:41 +1000 Received: from spooler by iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au (Mercury/32 v2.16); 30 Oct 00 08:10:18 +1000 Received: from joduflou.iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au (152.76.123.3) by iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au (Mercury/32 v2.16) with ESMTP; 30 Oct 00 08:10:07 +1000 To: forens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: About bruises date. References: <004b01c03fbc$9f732960$6b3b2dc8@fito> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Message-ID: <453720133A03@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:18:24 +1100 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk One of the more revealing aspects of ageing bruises is to look up the alleged colour progression in those reference books that dare go into the area - generally older books. It's really quite interesting how they differ in their colour progression vs age of bruise, and I think it shows you how unreliable it is. If only the courts and their mscellaneous camp followers would realise that too..... Concerning colorimetry and bruises, I think the biggest problem is that a bruise can have many different colours at the same time - again personal experimentation might need to be an option for those who need to be persuaded! Jo Duflou NSW Institute of Forensic Medicine (email: jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au) From forens-owner Sun Oct 29 17:34:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA22427 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-r09.mail.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22422 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:34:15 -0500 (EST) From: LEGALEYE1@aol.com Received: from LEGALEYE1@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id y.20.d3fd569 (17084) for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:33:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20.d3fd569.272dffc2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:33:38 EST Subject: Re: 'sleeping lawyer' case and George Jr. To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 87 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk In a message dated 10/28/00 1:30:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, KJohn39679@aol.com quotes: > > Gov. Bush, who has strongly defended his state's vigorous death penalty > system, was asked about Texas's "sleeping lawyer" cases, including Burdine's, > > during a campaign debate in Los Angeles on March 2. Bush cited the lower > court's decision to throw out Burdine's sentence as evidence that the system > > worked fairly. > > > But a day after that debate, Texas prosecutors asked the 5th Circuit to > reinstate Burdine's sentence, resulting in today's ruling. The decision over which evil to choose just became easier. My vote for president hung between Gore who would defy the 2nd Amendment (and further strengthen the most corrupt government agency in the US), Bush who would defy several others constitutional amendments, and the Libertarian candidate who doesn't stand a chance but if enough votes are received the idea of constitutional integrity would get more attention. The choice is down to two. Gore or Libertarian with a leaning towards Libertarian. If I vote Libertarian then at least I can't be blamed for helping to further the decline of a constitutional government. Thanks for another fine Washington Post article John. Bill From forens-owner Sun Oct 29 19:28:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23447 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:28:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-r12.mail.aol.com (imo-r12.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23442 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:28:44 -0500 (EST) From: LEGALEYE1@aol.com Received: from LEGALEYE1@aol.com by imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id y.69.c5f6346 (17084) for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:27:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <69.c5f6346.272e1a8d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:27:57 EST Subject: Re: FBI replaces forensic science with torture, once remo To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 87 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk In a message dated 10/29/00 12:53:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, KJohn39679@aol.com cites the Washington Post: > "To suggest we are not very mindful of these concerns would be wrong," said > FBI Assistant Director John Collingwood. "We collect information and seek > witnesses to present in U.S. courts subject to all the scrutiny and > challenges inherent in that process." > > But agents say privately that when entering a foreign culture to do police > work they do not have control over how prisoners are treated and must tread > lightly. > > > "They do not ask, 'How did you question them?' They will just ask, 'Is it > good information?'?" said Otwin Marenin, a criminal justice professor at > Washington State University who has studied the FBI's overseas practices. > "You learn how to live with that part even though you wouldn't do it > yourself." > > > Yemeni interrogation techniques have been criticized by no less than the > State Department, which found in its most recent human rights report that > Yemen's security forces arbitrarily torture prisoners, sometimes fatally. > But > the Yemenis also have allowed FBI agents to submit questions. They have > shared some of the results of their interrogations, but the FBI is pressing > for even greater access, sources said. > > > U.S. law does not prohibit the bureau from developing close ties with > foreign > governments whose practices, laws and ethics differ dramatically from those > in the United States. Freeh and others argue that the FBI's approach is > necessary to save American lives. This is truly a difficult situation. We must do all that is within our power to protect American interests throughout the world. Equally important we must never compromise the set of standards set down by our own laws or international law. We may not have the authority to control the law enforcement tactics of foreign nations within their borders but neither do we have to condone those practices which violate human rights. The United States is part of a United Nations conference on torture. We claim to denounce torture in any form for any reason. At the same time that UN body responsible for investigating and exposing torture has condemned the United States for engaging in torture or neglecting to act when state governments practice torture. With questionable practices being perpetrated within our borders already the denial by government officials, that such activities are not practiced with the cooperation of federal agents abroad, rings hollow. One thing that gives me great cause for concern is the desensitization of agents stationed in countries that practice officially sanctioned torture. I don't believe it is posable for agents to work closely within such a system and remain uninfluenced by that environment. When one lives within a system where it is acceptable to disregard basic human dignity and rights that system becomes internalized. After working in such a system for years, what happens to those agents when they rotate back to the States. Enforcement and investigation is a hard job. The men and women involved in protecting our society from criminals have a tough job that is exacerbated by a set of restrictions on their actions that are more confining than anywhere else in the world. Though these constitutional restrictions make the job of law enforcement more difficult, they must be conformed with lest an even greater evil arise, tyranny and oppression. So how does it effect our federal agents when they work in an environment where these restrictions do not apply and the short cuts of torture and abuse available in the systems of foreign criminal justice are viewed as positive acceptable methods. When these agents must work within the US and meet the frustrations that accompany restrictions on their conduct, which system will prevail? > Some view the expansion as a power grab, particularly since the Drug > Enforcement Administration, the U.S. Customs Service, the Bureau of Alcohol, > Tobacco and Firearms and the State Department have had personnel abroad for > years. > > "There is a lot of pushing and shoving to get into the game," Marenin said. > > Freeh and other FBI officials draw a sharp distinction between their primary > mission abroad - gathering evidence to make criminal cases - and the CIA's > role, collecting intelligence for decision makers. The FBI also gathers > intelligence with a goal of preventing terrorist acts. The agencies overlap > in their pursuit of information about terrorism. Damn, this sounds like the push to enter the WOD. DEA, ATF, Customs, FBI. Everyone wants to be in the lime light as the hero. Why can't one or two agencies handle foreign investigations? Why do we have to be convinced that the CIA and the FBI are working together without rivalry? The ATF investigates terrorist activities, the FBI investigates terrorist activities, the Customs service investigates terrorist activities, the State department is involved in the investigation of terrorist activities. What diferancedoes it make if the information is being directed to policy makers, decision makers, enforcement personnel, or other government officials. Do we not seek all the information available? If information obtained for inforcment purposes is not relivant to top officials at the State Department they can disregard it. But more likely it will benifit all if all information is available to the heads of all departments so that better decisions can be made. Multi agency involvement can only muddy the waters. But then that may be the intent. Torture and human rights abuses are already a tempation too often yeilded to by LEOs in this country. We can't afford to have our federal agents influenced by working in a system where those principles so anathema to our own are SOP. Bill From forens-owner Sun Oct 29 21:03:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24422 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-r10.mail.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.10]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24417 for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:03:04 -0500 (EST) From: LEGALEYE1@aol.com Received: from LEGALEYE1@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id y.c5.a8709e5 (17084) for ; Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:02:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:02:25 EST Subject: Re: Lab makes error on blood test To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 87 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk In a message dated 10/28/00 5:59:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, johnblyons@hotmail.com writes: > After the blood test was corrected, the St. Tammany Parish district attorney' > s office dropped the DWI charge filed after the crash. However, the office > has filed charges against Rollings for a DWI arrest in June 1998 that was > never prosecuted. Now this is suggesting too much. To imply that a prosecutor would reopen a case from two years ago in retaliation for daring to make law enforcement look silly just to prove ones innocence? This would never happen in America. The guy is just showing himself to be a poor sport. Bill From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 09:52:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01163 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01158 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:52:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11048; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:52:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:52:04 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Oliver To: jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au cc: forens Subject: Re: About bruises date. In-Reply-To: <453720133A03@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au wrote: > From: jo@iofm.cs.nsw.gov.au > > One of the more revealing aspects of ageing bruises is to look up > the alleged colour progression in those reference books that dare > go into the area - generally older books. It's really quite interesting > how they differ in their colour progression vs age of bruise, and I > think it shows you how unreliable it is. If only the courts and their > mscellaneous camp followers would realise that too..... That's essentially what the Langlois et al. article I mentaioned found. The discussion states: ... We know little about bruising in children where differences in subcutaneous fat and metabolic rates may affect buising... We also do not know whether major trauma affects the rate of colour change expecially if the subject suffers from septicaemia, intravascular coagulation or the release of proteolytic enzymes from pancreatic injury. A larger study of serial photographs in subjects of different age groups analyzied by Bayesian methods would be useful in answering the question whether bruises can or cannot be ages reliably by appearance. There are a number of variables that are known to be involved in the production and healing of bruisies: the effect of force, location on the body , age of the subject, blood pressure and evern temperature (which is different at the periphey compared to the core). Given these variables... it would seem unlikely that a bruise could be reliably aged from appearance alone. end excerpt. > Concerning colorimetry and bruises, I think the biggest problem is > that a bruise can have many different colours at the same time - > again personal experimentation might need to be an option for > those who need to be persuaded! Actually, my intuition is that the presence of multiple colors would be an aid rather than a detriment. Since the visual perception of a bruise constitutes two projectionw from a high dimensional space into a small dimensional space (multiple wavelenghts -> tristumulus response -> one perceived color), hyperspectral analysis might well provide better clues about the processes going on. As important, colorimetry, either as a spectrum or in tristimulus terms, removes the intermediate of photography. Since the mapping from "real" color under a specific illuminant to a color on a negative or paper (or CCD) is not one-to-one, the relationship between photographic appearance and real appearance removes almost any quantitative value. Interestingly, industrial psychovisual tests have shown the paramount importance of *lighting* on color-based evaluation of meat defects (which, in the human world amounts to inspection of tissues for gross pathology).(1) Since color perception is dependent on the illumination, this should be a no-brainer, but it is almost uniformly ignored in forensic pathology. Two people looking at the same "color" under different lighting conditions, whether on the skin or on a photographic print, will not see the same color. The bottom line is that the use of spectroradiometric measurement has been of industrial use in meat inspection for some time, and there are objective results there which are repeatable and useful. There is no reason to think that it would not also be true in inspection of the skin, as long as we knew the right questions to ask, e.g. "Is there a bruise?" perhaps rather than "What is the age of a bruise?" In such a context, it might well be of use as an aid in external examination of the body. While I think a more quantitative hyper- or multispectral analysis might do a better job of matching the spectral features to the underlying pathophysiology, it cannot solve the *real* underlying problem. The real problem is that the underlying pathophysiology is variable, and thus even some exact metric of it would not solve the problem of ageing bruises in any absolute sense. It *might,* however, provide a somewhat smaller window on the error, which would be of some use. billo 1) Brenda Collins and James Worthey. "The Role of Color in Lighting for Meat and Poultry Inspections." NBSIR 84-2829 US Dept Commerce March 1984 77 pp. From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 10:41:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02212 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02207 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:41:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:41:09 -0500 (EST) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] >From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 10:00:15 2000 Received: from sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu [130.74.120.71]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01380 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [130.74.116.217] ([130.74.116.217]) by sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14132 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:03:58 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: pgjacob@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:00:41 -0600 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Melissa Jacob Subject: Gunshot wounds and distance Hello all, I was wondering if there were any good references out there that discuss the size of a gunshot entrance wound and the distance from which the muzzle was when fired. I know that the further away, the larger the entrance wound, and I know that there have been experiments done on the known weapon itself to determine how far away the shooter (or muzzle) was. But are there some general guidelines for a certain caliber and type of bullet and gun? Thanks in advance, Melissa From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 10:50:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02491 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:50:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailcore2.oh.voyager.net (mailcore2.oh.voyager.net [207.90.100.13]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02477 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from pathr19.en.com (d13.as0.wlgh.oh.voyager.net [207.90.75.13]) by mailcore2.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA59233 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:50:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20001030104639.01d044d0@mail.en.com> X-Sender: pathr19@mail.en.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:48:40 -0500 To: forens@brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu From: "Heather N. Raaf, M.D." Subject: mtDNA and the mitochondrial "Eve" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Recently a friend asked me if there is any good book or article out there about the search for the mitochondrial "Eve", the common female ancestor of us all. Can anyone on this list recommend something? Thanks in advance, Heather N. Raaf, M.D. From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 11:50:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03796 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:50:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03786; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04615; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:50:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:49:59 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Oliver To: Basten cc: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Basten wrote: > > Hello all, > I was wondering if there were any good references out there that discuss > the size of a gunshot entrance wound and the distance from which the muzzle > was when fired. I know that the further away, the larger the entrance > wound... AFAIK, this is not the case, certainly not in the skin. In fact, there is a poor correlation between the size of the bullet and the size of the entrance wound. The size of the entrance wound is not predictive of the caliber of the weapon. billo From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 12:14:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04246 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:14:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from dasmthkhn463.amedd.army.mil (DASMTHKHN463.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL [204.208.124.133]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04241 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:14:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by DASMTHKHN463.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:05:15 -0600 Message-ID: <4E0277823564D411905E00A0C9EA331845C64A@DASMTHGSH666.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL> From: "Hause, David W LTC GLWACH" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] (fwd) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:13:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Unless she specifically means gunshot wounds from shotguns, I agree with Billo. I'm fond of DiMaio's Gunshot Wounds for this sort of reference request, which certainly ought to be in a university's medical library. Dave Hause -----Original Message----- From: Bill Oliver [mailto:billo@Radix.Net] Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 10:50 AM To: Basten Cc: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] (fwd) On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Basten wrote: > > Hello all, > I was wondering if there were any good references out there that discuss > the size of a gunshot entrance wound and the distance from which the muzzle > was when fired. I know that the further away, the larger the entrance > wound... AFAIK, this is not the case, certainly not in the skin. In fact, there is a poor correlation between the size of the bullet and the size of the entrance wound. The size of the entrance wound is not predictive of the caliber of the weapon. billo From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 12:42:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04714 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:42:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04709 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:42:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14325; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:42:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:42:01 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Oliver To: "Hause, David W LTC GLWACH" cc: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] (fwd) In-Reply-To: <4E0277823564D411905E00A0C9EA331845C64A@DASMTHGSH666.AMEDD.ARMY.MIL> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Hause, David W LTC GLWACH wrote: > From: "Hause, David W LTC GLWACH" > > Unless she specifically means gunshot wounds from shotguns, I agree with > Billo... Yeah, I was assuming a single-shot weapon. Shotguns do spread. billo From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 12:59:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05257 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from del1.vsnl.net.in (giasdl01.vsnl.net.in [202.54.15.1]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05252 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:59:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com ([203.197.229.44]) by del1.vsnl.net.in (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA22364; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:32:12 -0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <39FDA15C.BAB11B43@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:57:08 +0530 From: "Dr. Anil Aggrawal" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.71 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ascatena@arnet.com.ar Subject: About bruise date Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Dear List members Dr Adolfo Scatena of Argentina has made an enquiry about bruise date. In this connection, I would like to inform the list members that a very good paper on dating of bruises with interesting color photographs and extensive bibliography is lying on the Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology (Current Issue). Address is given below. All those interested may refer to this paper. Thanks Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 Phone: 6465460, 6413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1.Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://anil299.tripod.com/indexpapers.html 2. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 3. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 13:08:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05609 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:08:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05604 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:08:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:08:02 -0500 (EST) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from[Melissa Jacob ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:04:44 -0800 From: James Roberts To: cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from[Melissa Jacob ] (fwd) "I know that the further away, the larger the entrance wound, " What you "know" is incorrect! Our books, movies and TV have perpetuated large amount of myth. shrouding firearms. Many people "know" that the exit is always larger than the entrance. Bullets "knock people down" etc. very little of it true. As Bill Oliver points out you can't even tell the size of the bullet from the wound much less the distance (See AFTE Oct. '87 p 433: Lattig, Sizing Shotgun Slug Entrance Wounds) Range determination analysis is not done by measuring the size of the wound with the slight exception of some shotgun entry wounds. Which if larger than cylinder with very raged edges, but not yet showing separate pellet holes or only a few, may provide some range information. So if you change from gunshot to shotgun wound you may start to make some sense. Range determination is conducted based upon the spread of the shot of a shotgun pattern or upon the spread of the powder patten (and primer residue if close enough) in other arms. Each gun and ammunition combination should be tested in each case when possable. Many times a firearm of the same make, model and barrel length will create a different pattern. There are some guidelines but they are rough estimations that are not heavily relied upon if testing can be conducted properly. You will find a discussion of this in DiMaio's Gunshot Wounds (which Dr. House suggested as I'm proofing this). Jim Roberts James L. Roberts Firearm and Toolmark Examiner Ventura Co. Sheriff's Lab (805) 654-2308 James.Roberts@mail.co.ventura.ca.us >>> "Basten" 10/30/00 07:41AM >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] >From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 10:00:15 2000 Received: from sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu [130.74.120.71]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01380 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from [130.74.116.217] ([130.74.116.217]) by sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14132 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:03:58 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: pgjacob@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:00:41 -0600 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Melissa Jacob Subject: Gunshot wounds and distance Hello all, I was wondering if there were any good references out there that discuss the size of a gunshot entrance wound and the distance from which the muzzle was when fired. I know that the further away, the larger the entrance wound, and I know that there have been experiments done on the known weapon itself to determine how far away the shooter (or muzzle) was. But are there some general guidelines for a certain caliber and type of bullet and gun? Thanks in advance, Melissa From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 15:09:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07506 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:09:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-r03.mail.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.3]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07501 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:09:48 -0500 (EST) From: TabCat@aol.com Received: from TabCat@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id y.25.caf1769 (4445) for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:09:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <25.caf1769.272f2f6b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:09:15 EST Subject: DNA Position To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_25.caf1769.272f2f6b_boundary" X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 123 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk --part1_25.caf1769.272f2f6b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit see the attachment --part1_25.caf1769.272f2f6b_boundary Content-Type: application/octet-stream; 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Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:56:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-r18.mail.aol.com (imo-r18.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.72]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08683 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:56:42 -0500 (EST) From: KJohn39679@aol.com Received: from KJohn39679@aol.com by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.32.) id y.f5.4078945 (4237) for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:55:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:55:58 EST Subject: Fwd: 16 innocents executed since '77? To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_f5.4078945.272f486e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 66 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk --part1_f5.4078945.272f486e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/30/00 2:52:41 PM, Martinyant writes: << Reasonable Doubts: Is the U.S. Executing Innocent People? A Preliminary Report of the=20 Grassroots Investigation Project Pursuing justice, peace and equality P.O Box 5206, Hyattsville, MD 20722 301-699-0042 / [fax] 301-864-2182 / www.quixote.org / ejusa@quixote.org=20 Acknowledgements Equal Justice USA would like to express its utmost gratitud= e=20 to Claudia Whitman, who had the idea, the passion, and the brilliance to see= =20 this project from inception to conclusion. We thank Lisa Kois, Esq. for her=20 assistance in drafting the report, and David Hammond, Esq. who assisted with= =20 research. We also thank the many people throughout the country who have give= n=20 their time and talents to the project, including: Rob Owen, Rob Warden, Mick= i=20 Dickoff, Rita Barker, Bill Lofquist, Bruce Livingston, Kent Gipson, Margaret= =20 Vandiver, Mike Radelet, Esther Brown, Judy Cumbee, Jill Keefe, Laird Carlson= ,=20 Barbara Taylor, Matt Holder, Dawn Dye, Bob and Marie Long, Grace Bolden, and= =20 Wendy Fancher. And a very special thanks to Gary Taylor, without whose help=20 we could not have done the research in Texas. We dedicate this report to James Adams, Brian Baldwin, Odell Barnes, Roger=20 Coleman, Willie Darden, Girvies Davis, Robert Drew, Shaka Sankofa, Larry=20 Griffin, Richard Jones, Robert McFarland, Roy Roberts, Cornelius Singleton,=20 Jesse Tafero, Thomas Thompson, Freddie Wright, and their families and loved=20 ones. Introduction "I cannot support a system, which, in its administration, has proven to be s= o=20 fraught with error and has come so close to the ultimate nightmare, the=20 state=92s taking of innocent life." =96 Governor George Ryan, on declaring a moratorium in IllinoisThe=20 administration of the death penalty in the United States is plagued by=20 injustice. The proof has become irrefutable. Individuals are being sentenced= =20 to death for crimes they did not commit. While some of these individuals are= =20 being exonerated and released, others are likely being executed.=20 Mounting evidence of unfairness has become so compelling that some death=20 penalty supporters, such as Illinois Governor George Ryan, can no longer=20 ignore it. In January of this year, Governor Ryan announced a moratorium on=20 executions in the state, just days after Illinois=92 thirteenth death row=20 inmate was exonerated. In so doing, Illinois became the first U.S.=20 jurisdiction to suspend executions while it examines the administration of=20 the death penalty. This report marks the first national effort to document and expose cases of=20 people executed despite compelling evidence of their innocence since=20 executions resumed in the U.S. in 1977. It is released in a climate that is=20 increasingly hostile to efforts to re-open or investigate cases in which=20 people have been executed for crimes they probably didn=92t commit.=20 The report highlights the cases of 16 individuals who were executed by the=20 states of Alabama, California, Florida, Illinois, Missouri, Texas, and=20 Virginia in the face of exculpatory evidence and evidence of rights=20 violations. In all of these cases, the state and federal courts had every=20 opportunity to interrupt the process and determine whether the original=20 conviction was wrong, but they failed to do so. These cases are a part of an= =20 alarming trend in the administration of justice in the U.S. in which the=20 courts overwhelmingly favor efficiency and rigid procedural rules over=20 justice and constitutional protection. This trend has created a system of=20 arbitrary justice and has left a trail of arbitrary executions in its wake. Methodology This report is based on five months of research conducted by a=20 network of activists and lawyers as part of the Grassroots Investigation=20 Project. The Project is an ongoing effort to document and investigate cases=20 where there is compelling evidence of innocence and due process violations.=20 The researchers have employed a case study methodology, in which they have=20 relied on individual cases to highlight widespread patterns and practices of= =20 the state that lead to the violation of rights and may lead to the execution= =20 of innocent people.=20 All 16 cases contained in this report were selected based on the compelling=20 nature of the evidence of innocence. Additional criteria used to select case= s=20 included the exemplary nature of the cases; all of the cases demonstrate=20 widespread and recurrent defects in the administration of the death penalty.= =20 Using criteria for review developed by the Center on Wrongful Convictions at= =20 Northwestern University School of Law, trial, appellate, and investigative=20 documents were compiled and analyzed. This information, as well as=20 information obtained through independent investigations in some cases, forme= d=20 the basis of the case studies and the charts that were developed for each of= =20 the cases. (See appendix for charts on cases included in this report.) This report represents only a small number of the actual cases in which=20 people have been executed for crimes they probably did not commit. The=20 project=92s research into such cases is ongoing. Findings In each of the 16 cases profiled in this report, there exists=20 compelling evidence that the defendant was convicted of the crime he did not= ,=20 in fact, commit. Viewed collectively, these 16 cases highlight patterns and=20 practices in the administration of justice at the state and federal levels=20 that violate constitutionally and internationally protected rights. Abuses=20 that led to rights violations included the following.=20 Defense attorneys routinely failed to provide their clients with competent=20 legal counsel. In all 16 cases, the defendant was convicted and sentenced to death at a=20 trial that did not conform to basic standards of fairness and due process.=20 The lack of competent counsel undermined the right to a fair trail. There wa= s=20 compelling evidence that the defense attorneys failed to perform their dutie= s=20 to their clients with adequate competence. Defense attorneys, most of whom=20 were appointed by the court, routinely failed to mount a defense, to=20 investigate, to produce witnesses that could testify to the defendant=92s=20 innocence or challenge the prosecution=92s evidence, to comply with court=20 deadlines, to object to illegal or improper conduct, or to preserve evidence= =20 and issues for appellate review.=20 Prosecutors and police routinely engaged in misconduct during investigations= =20 and trials.=20 In all of the cases, there was compelling evidence of official misconduct an= d=20 abuse committed at the investigation and trial stage. Suppression of=20 exculpatory evidence was common. Prosecutors frequently relied on a single=20 eyewitness or on jailhouse informants =96 sources shown to be unreliable. In= =20 some cases, witnesses were intimidated or offered deals for testifying.=20 Confessions were obtained through coercion, force, threats, and even torture= =20 and then used to convict defendants despite the illegal means utilized to=20 obtain the confessions. Line-ups were prejudicial and leading in many cases.= =20 In at least one case, evidence was probably planted.=20 Racial bias fueled the actions of police, prosecutors, defense attorneys, an= d=20 judges.=20 People of color are disproportionately represented on U.S. death rows.=20 Furthermore, the race of the victim is a principle determinant in sentencing= =20 offenders to death. The combination of an African American defendant and a=20 white victim is most likely to result in a death sentence. In these 16 cases= ,=20 only one of the crime victims was black and 16 were white. Nine of the=20 executed men were African American. In every case in which an African American was the defendant, racial=20 discrimination was a determining factor in the conviction. In many cases,=20 prosecutors excluded jurors based on race, a practice found to be an=20 unconstitutional form of racial discrimination by the U.S. Supreme Court in=20 1986 (Batson v. Kentucky). In some cases, lawyers =96 both for the prosecuti= on=20 and defense =96 used racist language to inflame the jury. In at lease one ca= se,=20 the judge and prosecutor were later found to have engaged in persistent=20 racial discrimination. State and federal appellate courts failed to intervene in cases with=20 compelling evidence of innocence and evidence of rights violations. In all of the cases, the decision of the trial court was appealed based on=20 due process violations and, in some cases, on compelling evidence of=20 innocence. In most of the cases, evidence of innocence was never heard in an= y=20 court because it surfaced only after the original trial. In most cases,=20 appeals were repeatedly denied without re-hearing, irrespective of the=20 evidence. This was largely a result of strict appellate review standards and= =20 inflexible time limits. These include restrictions on federal courts=92 abil= ity=20 to review convictions as mandated by the 1996 Anti-Terrorism and Effective=20 Death Penalty Act and state time limits for the introduction of new evidence= =20 after sentencing.=20 The existence of innocence claims and the evidence to support these claims=20 render the related allegations of unfairness and lack of due process=20 particularly alarming. In all of the cases, both state and federal courts ha= d=20 every opportunity to remedy the rights violations but did not. Both state an= d=20 federal courts failed to protect the rights enshrined not only in state=20 constitutions and the Constitution of the United States, but also in=20 international law. Courts overwhelmingly favored procedure over justice and=20 efficiency over fairness. And, in so doing, state and federal governments=20 sanctioned state killing of men who were probably innocent. Conclusion The definitive nature of the death penalty requires the highest=20 standards of due process and fairness. The findings of this report suggest=20 that while such standards exist formally, they do not exist in practice.=20 Death penalty states, through the police, the state prosecutors=92 offices,=20= and=20 the judicial system, routinely fail to exercise necessary diligence to ensur= e=20 the protection of the rights of the accused. Federal courts, which have been= =20 limited by the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, fail=20 to exercise the necessary oversight to provide remedies for rights violation= s=20 in death penalty cases. As such, state governments, with the acquiescence of= =20 the federal government, are executing people under the guise of due process=20 and fair trials, despite compelling evidence of innocence.=20 RecommendationsThere is an emerging national consensus that the=20 administration of the death penalty in the U.S. is in dire need of reform.=20 After many years of deep cuts to indigent defense funding and radical=20 restrictions on prisoner appeals, the pendulum is beginning to swing in the=20 other direction. Reforms are now being proposed at the state and national=20 level. Measures like the Innocence Protection Act, now pending before=20 Congress, could lessen the risk of executing innocent people by increasing=20 compensation, training, and oversight of defense counsel and by making DNA=20 testing available to death row prisoners.=20 The proposed reforms, however, only address the first finding of this report= .=20 They do not address the reluctance of state and federal appellate courts to=20 review and/or intervene when faced with cases with compelling evidence of=20 innocence or rights violations. Furthermore, the proposed remedies do not=20 address racial bias and prosecutorial misconduct. Officially, neither the=20 state nor federal governments acknowledge that innocent people are being=20 executed. The necessary first step to meaningful reform is a time-out on=20 executions that allows time, space, and resources for independent evaluation= s=20 of the state and federal governments=92 administration of the death penalty.= =20 Based on the findings of this report, the Grassroots Investigation Project o= f=20 Equal Justice, USA recommends the following in order to protect the rights o= f=20 individuals and to ensure that innocent people are not executed: State and federal governments should impose immediate moratoria on execution= s=20 and should constitute independent bodies to study the administration of the=20 death penalty.=20 State and federal governments should investigate alleged cases in which=20 people have been executed for crimes they did not commit.=20 State and federal governments should consistently provide compensation to=20 individuals, or the families of individuals, who have been wrongfully=20 convicted or wrongfully executed. >> --part1_f5.4078945.272f486e_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Martinyant@aol.com Full-name: Martinyant Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:52:41 EST Subject: 16 innocents executed since '77? To: jilliand@pdq.net, dberry@i2020.net, Mbowen56@aol.com, peachtub@email.msn.com, ingrid57@att.net, ChipnClara@aol.com, AFSCOLE@aol.com, ducey.3@osu.edu, medwards@dispatch.com, JTELK@aol.com, nancyserickson@mciworld.com, paulaeyre@earthlink.net, FELDMEIERJ@aol.com, freepress@iwaynet.net, Lavera.Floyd@asclu.wpafb.af.mil, tgilbert@f-glaw.com, Suzethree@aol.com, rhuff@e4e.oac.uci.edu, Baillady51@aol.com, JCSommer@aol.com, yar@eriecoast.com, KJohn39679@aol.com, zelayas@bellsouth.net, MoseLayman@aol.com, joschmo63usa@netscape.net, gabelpaving@mindspring.com, source@columbus.rr.com, WWall10039@aol.com, bgmcglone@yahoo.com, jmorse@onebox.com, Shadow9141@aol.com, rpowers@ee.net, jennyreach@hotmail.com, sarnoff@ohio.edu, prjlaw@wv-cis.net, rep08@ohr.state.oh.us, pookey_26@hotmail.com, spallingerk@bluffton.edu, dlstrait@co.franklin.oh.us, WLSLAWYER@aol.com, jltempest@hotmail.com, john_tempest@fujifilm.com, Gordiet13@aol.com, ProbesOne@aol.com, bwade@ncool.net, joursw@showme.missouri.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en X-Mailer: Unknown sub 148 Reasonable Doubts: Is the U.S. Executing Innocent People? A Preliminary Report of the=20 Grassroots Investigation Project Pursuing justice, peace and equality P.O Box 5206, Hyattsville, MD 20722 301-699-0042 / [fax] 301-864-2182 / www.quixote.org / ejusa@quixote.org=20 Acknowledgements Equal Justice USA would like to express its utmost gratitud= e=20 to Claudia Whitman, who had the idea, the passion, and the brilliance to see= =20 this project from inception to conclusion. We thank Lisa Kois, Esq. for her=20 assistance in drafting the report, and David Hammond, Esq. who assisted with= =20 research. We also thank the many people throughout the country who have give= n=20 their time and talents to the project, including: Rob Owen, Rob Warden, Mick= i=20 Dickoff, Rita Barker, Bill Lofquist, Bruce Livingston, Kent Gipson, Margaret= =20 Vandiver, Mike Radelet, Esther Brown, Judy Cumbee, Jill Keefe, Laird Carlson= ,=20 Barbara Taylor, Matt Holder, Dawn Dye, Bob and Marie Long, Grace Bolden, and= =20 Wendy Fancher. And a very special thanks to Gary Taylor, without whose help=20 we could not have done the research in Texas. We dedicate this report to James Adams, Brian Baldwin, Odell Barnes, Roger=20 Coleman, Willie Darden, Girvies Davis, Robert Drew, Shaka Sankofa, Larry=20 Griffin, Richard Jones, Robert McFarland, Roy Roberts, Cornelius Singleton,=20 Jesse Tafero, Thomas Thompson, Freddie Wright, and their families and loved=20 ones. Introduction "I cannot support a system, which, in its administration, has proven to be s= o=20 fraught with error and has come so close to the ultimate nightmare, the=20 state=E2=80=99s taking of innocent life." =E2=80=93 Governor George Ryan, on declaring a moratorium in IllinoisThe=20 administration of the death penalty in the United States is plagued by=20 injustice. The proof has become irrefutable. Individuals are being sentenced= =20 to death for crimes they did not commit. While some of these individuals are= =20 being exonerated and released, others are likely being executed.=20 Mounting evidence of unfairness has become so compelling that some death=20 penalty supporters, such as Illinois Governor George Ryan, can no longer=20 ignore it. In January of this year, Governor Ryan announced a moratorium on=20 executions in the state, just days after Illinois=E2=80=99 thirteenth death=20= row=20 inmate was exonerated. In so doing, Illinois became the first U.S.=20 jurisdiction to suspend executions while it examines the administration of=20 the death penalty. This report marks the first national effort to document and expose cases of=20 people executed despite compelling evidence of their innocence since=20 executions resumed in the U.S. in 1977. It is released in a climate that is=20 increasingly hostile to efforts to re-open or investigate cases in which=20 people have been executed for crimes they probably didn=E2=80=99t commit.=20 The report highlights the cases of 16 individuals who were executed by the=20 states of Alabama, California, Florida, Illinois, Missouri, Texas, and=20 Virginia in the face of exculpatory evidence and evidence of rights=20 violations. In all of these cases, the state and federal courts had every=20 opportunity to interrupt the process and determine whether the original=20 conviction was wrong, but they failed to do so. These cases are a part of an= =20 alarming trend in the administration of justice in the U.S. in which the=20 courts overwhelmingly favor efficiency and rigid procedural rules over=20 justice and constitutional protection. This trend has created a system of=20 arbitrary justice and has left a trail of arbitrary executions in its wake. Methodology This report is based on five months of research conducted by a=20 network of activists and lawyers as part of the Grassroots Investigation=20 Project. The Project is an ongoing effort to document and investigate cases=20 where there is compelling evidence of innocence and due process violations.=20 The researchers have employed a case study methodology, in which they have=20 relied on individual cases to highlight widespread patterns and practices of= =20 the state that lead to the violation of rights and may lead to the execution= =20 of innocent people.=20 All 16 cases contained in this report were selected based on the compelling=20 nature of the evidence of innocence. Additional criteria used to select case= s=20 included the exemplary nature of the cases; all of the cases demonstrate=20 widespread and recurrent defects in the administration of the death penalty.= =20 Using criteria for review developed by the Center on Wrongful Convictions at= =20 Northwestern University School of Law, trial, appellate, and investigative=20 documents were compiled and analyzed. This information, as well as=20 information obtained through independent investigations in some cases, forme= d=20 the basis of the case studies and the charts that were developed for each of= =20 the cases. (See appendix for charts on cases included in this report.) This report represents only a small number of the actual cases in which=20 people have been executed for crimes they probably did not commit. The=20 project=E2=80=99s research into such cases is ongoing. Findings In each of the 16 cases profiled in this report, there exists=20 compelling evidence that the defendant was convicted of the crime he did not= ,=20 in fact, commit. Viewed collectively, these 16 cases highlight patterns and=20 practices in the administration of justice at the state and federal levels=20 that violate constitutionally and internationally protected rights. Abuses=20 that led to rights violations included the following.=20 Defense attorneys routinely failed to provide their clients with competent=20 legal counsel. In all 16 cases, the defendant was convicted and sentenced to death at a=20 trial that did not conform to basic standards of fairness and due process.=20 The lack of competent counsel undermined the right to a fair trail. There wa= s=20 compelling evidence that the defense attorneys failed to perform their dutie= s=20 to their clients with adequate competence. Defense attorneys, most of whom=20 were appointed by the court, routinely failed to mount a defense, to=20 investigate, to produce witnesses that could testify to the defendant=E2=80= =99s=20 innocence or challenge the prosecution=E2=80=99s evidence, to comply with co= urt=20 deadlines, to object to illegal or improper conduct, or to preserve evidence= =20 and issues for appellate review.=20 Prosecutors and police routinely engaged in misconduct during investigations= =20 and trials.=20 In all of the cases, there was compelling evidence of official misconduct an= d=20 abuse committed at the investigation and trial stage. Suppression of=20 exculpatory evidence was common. Prosecutors frequently relied on a single=20 eyewitness or on jailhouse informants =E2=80=93 sources shown to be unreliab= le. In=20 some cases, witnesses were intimidated or offered deals for testifying.=20 Confessions were obtained through coercion, force, threats, and even torture= =20 and then used to convict defendants despite the illegal means utilized to=20 obtain the confessions. Line-ups were prejudicial and leading in many cases.= =20 In at least one case, evidence was probably planted.=20 Racial bias fueled the actions of police, prosecutors, defense attorneys, an= d=20 judges.=20 People of color are disproportionately represented on U.S. death rows.=20 Furthermore, the race of the victim is a principle determinant in sentencing= =20 offenders to death. The combination of an African American defendant and a=20 white victim is most likely to result in a death sentence. In these 16 cases= ,=20 only one of the crime victims was black and 16 were white. Nine of the=20 executed men were African American. In every case in which an African American was the defendant, racial=20 discrimination was a determining factor in the conviction. In many cases,=20 prosecutors excluded jurors based on race, a practice found to be an=20 unconstitutional form of racial discrimination by the U.S. Supreme Court in=20 1986 (Batson v. Kentucky). In some cases, lawyers =E2=80=93 both for the pro= secution=20 and defense =E2=80=93 used racist language to inflame the jury. In at lease=20= one case,=20 the judge and prosecutor were later found to have engaged in persistent=20 racial discrimination. State and federal appellate courts failed to intervene in cases with=20 compelling evidence of innocence and evidence of rights violations. In all of the cases, the decision of the trial court was appealed based on=20 due process violations and, in some cases, on compelling evidence of=20 innocence. In most of the cases, evidence of innocence was never heard in an= y=20 court because it surfaced only after the original trial. In most cases,=20 appeals were repeatedly denied without re-hearing, irrespective of the=20 evidence. This was largely a result of strict appellate review standards and= =20 inflexible time limits. These include restrictions on federal courts=E2=80= =99 ability=20 to review convictions as mandated by the 1996 Anti-Terrorism and Effective=20 Death Penalty Act and state time limits for the introduction of new evidence= =20 after sentencing.=20 The existence of innocence claims and the evidence to support these claims=20 render the related allegations of unfairness and lack of due process=20 particularly alarming. In all of the cases, both state and federal courts ha= d=20 every opportunity to remedy the rights violations but did not. Both state an= d=20 federal courts failed to protect the rights enshrined not only in state=20 constitutions and the Constitution of the United States, but also in=20 international law. Courts overwhelmingly favored procedure over justice and=20 efficiency over fairness. And, in so doing, state and federal governments=20 sanctioned state killing of men who were probably innocent. Conclusion The definitive nature of the death penalty requires the highest=20 standards of due process and fairness. The findings of this report suggest=20 that while such standards exist formally, they do not exist in practice.=20 Death penalty states, through the police, the state prosecutors=E2=80=99 off= ices, and=20 the judicial system, routinely fail to exercise necessary diligence to ensur= e=20 the protection of the rights of the accused. Federal courts, which have been= =20 limited by the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, fail=20 to exercise the necessary oversight to provide remedies for rights violation= s=20 in death penalty cases. As such, state governments, with the acquiescence of= =20 the federal government, are executing people under the guise of due process=20 and fair trials, despite compelling evidence of innocence.=20 RecommendationsThere is an emerging national consensus that the=20 administration of the death penalty in the U.S. is in dire need of reform.=20 After many years of deep cuts to indigent defense funding and radical=20 restrictions on prisoner appeals, the pendulum is beginning to swing in the=20 other direction. Reforms are now being proposed at the state and national=20 level. Measures like the Innocence Protection Act, now pending before=20 Congress, could lessen the risk of executing innocent people by increasing=20 compensation, training, and oversight of defense counsel and by making DNA=20 testing available to death row prisoners.=20 The proposed reforms, however, only address the first finding of this report= .=20 They do not address the reluctance of state and federal appellate courts to=20 review and/or intervene when faced with cases with compelling evidence of=20 innocence or rights violations. Furthermore, the proposed remedies do not=20 address racial bias and prosecutorial misconduct. Officially, neither the=20 state nor federal governments acknowledge that innocent people are being=20 executed. The necessary first step to meaningful reform is a time-out on=20 executions that allows time, space, and resources for independent evaluation= s=20 of the state and federal governments=E2=80=99 administration of the death pe= nalty.=20 Based on the findings of this report, the Grassroots Investigation Project o= f=20 Equal Justice, USA recommends the following in order to protect the rights o= f=20 individuals and to ensure that innocent people are not executed: State and federal governments should impose immediate moratoria on execution= s=20 and should constitute independent bodies to study the administration of the=20 death penalty.=20 State and federal governments should investigate alleged cases in which=20 people have been executed for crimes they did not commit.=20 State and federal governments should consistently provide compensation to=20 individuals, or the families of individuals, who have been wrongfully=20 convicted or wrongfully executed.=20 Martin Yant Author, Journalist & Private Investigator PO Box 14306 Columbus, OH 43214 Phone: 614-447-8456 Fax: 614-447-8465 http://truthinjustice.org/yant/ --part1_f5.4078945.272f486e_boundary-- From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 18:13:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09719 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:13:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from tabasco.davis.celera.com ([63.93.249.5]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA09714 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from celmdav.davis.celera.com by tabasco.davis.celera.com via smtpd (for brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu [152.1.95.36]) with SMTP; 30 Oct 2000 23:13:12 UT Received: by celmdav.davis.celera.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:11:21 -0800 Message-ID: <6E4A03EC333AD411A5F100508BC76C6708EAD7@celmdav.davis.celera.com> From: "Halverson, Joy" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:11:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Dear list members: I am working on a case in which a cat was beaten to death with a golf club. The club was probably washed or wiped clean but the police have it. Would you recommend 1) looking for blood with Luminol (excuse my ignorance but will Luminol interefere with PCR?), or 2) throughly swab the club, or 3) rinse the club with saline and centrifuge the saline hoping to retrieve some cellular material in the pellet? Thanks in advance for any advice-Joy Halverson From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 19:19:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10475 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:19:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns1.nothingbutnet.net (ns1.nothingbutnet.net [206.13.41.251]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10470 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:19:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from pete.FSALab.com (pm4-87.nothingbutnet.net [206.13.41.87]) by ns1.nothingbutnet.net (8.10.1/8.10.1/jjb-ns1) with ESMTP id e9V0JF123115 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:19:16 -0800 (PST) X-Envelope-From: pbarnett@FSALab.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001030155530.00aa7af0@pop.nothingbutnet.net> X-Sender: pbarnett@pop.nothingbutnet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:17:28 -0800 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: "Peter D. Barnett" Subject: Re: DNA from golf clubs In-Reply-To: <6E4A03EC333AD411A5F100508BC76C6708EAD7@celmdav.davis.celer a.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk At 03:11 PM 10/30/00 -0800, you wrote: > Dear list members: >I am working on a case in which a cat was beaten to death with a golf club. >The club was probably washed or wiped clean but the police have it. Would >you recommend 1) looking for blood with Luminol (excuse my ignorance but >will Luminol interefere with PCR?), or 2) throughly swab the club, or 3) >rinse the club with saline and centrifuge the saline hoping to retrieve >some cellular material in the pellet? Thanks in advance for any advice-Joy >Halverson Option 1 is not recommended (why would you even think of it?) Option 3 seems a little difficult - how do you wash a golf club and collect the wash? Option 3 is a good start, but swabbing the whole club seems a little excessive. I'd suggest a stereo microscope, an alternative light source, some o-tolidine and hydrogen peroxide, some reasonably clean cotton swabs, a good pair of forceps, and some clean containers would be a good place to start. Maybe the next generation of P-E DNA automatons will a built-in golf club extraction attachment. Wouldn't that be convenient? Pete Barnett Peter D. Barnett Forensic Science Associates Richmond CA 510-222-8883 FAX: 510-222-8887 pbarnett@FSALab.com http://www.fsalab.com From forens-owner Tue Oct 31 09:05:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17159 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:05:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailhub.state.me.us (mailhub.state.me.us [141.114.122.227]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17154 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:05:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from dps-email.ps.state.me.us by mailhub.state.me.us with ESMTP for forens@statgen.ncsu.edu; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:59:03 -0500 Received: from [141.114.109.134] by dps-email.ps.state.me.us; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:05:37 -0500 Message-Id: <001e01c04344$2cf27c20$866d728d@pschelms.ps.state.me.us> From: "Gretchen D. Hicks" To: "Halverson, Joy" , Subject: Re: Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:09:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk We often times receive evidence from a crime scene that has been washed or wiped. My usual procedure is to begin with a visual examination of the item, followed by a stereomicroscopic examination to locate stains. If no stain is located, you can do a general wiping of the sample, barring the need for fingerprints. Usually, I use a piece filter paper folded into quarters. I use the tip of the paper to wipe the item in sections, unfold the paper, and drop the OT reagents on the point of contact. By process of elimination, I can usually narrow down a reasonable source for any positive reactions, allowing me to swab a smaller area for DNA. Hope this helps. Gretchen Hicks -----Original Message----- From: Halverson, Joy To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Date: Monday, October 30, 2000 6:19 PM Dear list members: I am working on a case in which a cat was beaten to death with a golf club. The club was probably washed or wiped clean but the police have it. Would you recommend 1) looking for blood with Luminol (excuse my ignorance but will Luminol interefere with PCR?), or 2) throughly swab the club, or 3) rinse the club with saline and centrifuge the saline hoping to retrieve some cellular material in the pellet? Thanks in advance for any advice-Joy Halverson From forens-owner Tue Oct 31 09:33:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17757 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:33:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from services.state.mo.us (services.state.mo.us [168.166.2.67]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17746; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.state.mo.us ([168.166.193.214]) by services.state.mo.us (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e9VEXWU06697; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:33:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <39FED838.71FE32C6@mail.state.mo.us> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:33:28 -0600 From: Jenny Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Basten CC: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [MelissaJacob ] (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Melissa, I do shooting distance determinations on clothing. You cannot predict shooting distance by the size of a bullet hole in clothing (unless it is contact or near contact). If the bullet is not tumbling (as in hitting something else first) the hole in clothing will usually be a nice round punched out hole. It is hard to correlate even the caliber of the bullet from the size of hole since some fabrics are more elastic than others and the fabric will stretch a little rather than tear. I suspect that the skin acts elastic also especially where there is soft tissue under it rather than bone. The determination of distance from a hole in clothing involves the detection of nitrites dispersed around the hole using sulfanilic acid and alpha napthal on desensitized photo paper. The pattern developed is then compared to patterns developed by the suspect weapon and ammo at varying distances. This works to maybe 3 - 4 feet. Few guns deposit beyond this. But the size of the bullet hole is not particularily useful for long range shots. (Contact and near contact discharges will have larger holes, obviously.) Now, shotguns are a different thing and the spread of the pellets can be related to distance. You might check the AFTE Journal archives for articles related to distance determination. One article I can suggest if only because it could give you a useful bibliography..... Ravreby, M., "Analysis of Long-Range Bullet Entrance Holes by Atomic Absorption Spectrophotometry and Scanning Electron Microscopy," Journal of Forensic Sciences, JFSCA, Vol. 27, No. 1 Jan. 1982 pp. 92-112. Good Luck Jenny Basten wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa > Jacob ] > > >From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 10:00:15 2000 > Received: from sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu [130.74.120.71]) > by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01380 > for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:15 -0500 (EST) > Received: from [130.74.116.217] ([130.74.116.217]) > by sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14132 > for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:03:58 -0600 (CST) > X-Sender: pgjacob@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:00:41 -0600 > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > From: Melissa Jacob > Subject: Gunshot wounds and distance > > Hello all, > I was wondering if there were any good references out there that discuss > the size of a gunshot entrance wound and the distance from which the muzzle > was when fired. I know that the further away, the larger the entrance > wound, and I know that there have been experiments done on the known weapon > itself to determine how far away the shooter (or muzzle) was. But are > there some general guidelines for a certain caliber and type of bullet and > gun? > > Thanks in advance, > Melissa From forens-owner Tue Oct 31 11:16:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19534 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:16:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19529 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:16:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:16:55 -0500 (EST) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [MelissaJacob ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:33:28 -0600 From: Jenny Smith To: Basten Cc: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [MelissaJacob ] (fwd) Melissa, I do shooting distance determinations on clothing. You cannot predict shooting distance by the size of a bullet hole in clothing (unless it is contact or near contact). If the bullet is not tumbling (as in hitting something else first) the hole in clothing will usually be a nice round punched out hole. It is hard to correlate even the caliber of the bullet from the size of hole since some fabrics are more elastic than others and the fabric will stretch a little rather than tear. I suspect that the skin acts elastic also especially where there is soft tissue under it rather than bone. The determination of distance from a hole in clothing involves the detection of nitrites dispersed around the hole using sulfanilic acid and alpha napthal on desensitized photo paper. The pattern developed is then compared to patterns developed by the suspect weapon and ammo at varying distances. This works to maybe 3 - 4 feet. Few guns deposit beyond this. But the size of the bullet hole is not particularily useful for long range shots. (Contact and near contact discharges will have larger holes, obviously.) Now, shotguns are a different thing and the spread of the pellets can be related to distance. You might check the AFTE Journal archives for articles related to distance determination. One article I can suggest if only because it could give you a useful bibliography..... Ravreby, M., "Analysis of Long-Range Bullet Entrance Holes by Atomic Absorption Spectrophotometry and Scanning Electron Microscopy," Journal of Forensic Sciences, JFSCA, Vol. 27, No. 1 Jan. 1982 pp. 92-112. Good Luck Jenny Basten wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:16 -0500 (EST) > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa > Jacob ] > > >From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 10:00:15 2000 > Received: from sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu [130.74.120.71]) > by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01380 > for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:00:15 -0500 (EST) > Received: from [130.74.116.217] ([130.74.116.217]) > by sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14132 > for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:03:58 -0600 (CST) > X-Sender: pgjacob@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:00:41 -0600 > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > From: Melissa Jacob > Subject: Gunshot wounds and distance > > Hello all, > I was wondering if there were any good references out there that discuss > the size of a gunshot entrance wound and the distance from which the muzzle > was when fired. I know that the further away, the larger the entrance > wound, and I know that there have been experiments done on the known weapon > itself to determine how far away the shooter (or muzzle) was. But are > there some general guidelines for a certain caliber and type of bullet and > gun? > > Thanks in advance, > Melissa From forens-owner Tue Oct 31 11:17:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19562 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (cbasten@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19557 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:17:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:17:40 -0500 (EST) From: Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE forens@statgen.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from [Melissa Jacob ] >From forens-owner Mon Oct 30 13:22:31 2000 Received: from sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu [130.74.120.71]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06016 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:22:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [130.74.116.217] ([130.74.116.217]) by sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06628 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:26:13 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: pgjacob@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:23:00 -0600 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Melissa Jacob Subject: Gunshot wounds Sorry, I am a member (I think?), but obviously have forgotton where to send mail. So the take home message is that except for shotguns (like deer hunting) which have pellets that spread??, there is no correlation between the size of the wound and the distance from the muzzle. That makes sense, now. A bullet wouldn't "spread" like deer or buckshot, so it wouldn't matter how far from where you were shooting. Thanks for the replies, Melissa From forens-owner Tue Oct 31 13:26:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21567 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:26:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from nfstc.org (server49.aitcom.net [208.234.0.35]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21562 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:26:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from host ([199.227.214.151]) by nfstc.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA30652; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:26:13 -0500 From: "Kevin Lothridge" To: "Ascld" , "Forens" Subject: Question Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:23:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have 2 questions that I need some help answering. 1. Are there any state police organizations / state operated crime laboratories that charge locals for either their investigative or laboratory services? 2. Are there any studies that examine the relationship between state and local law enforcement entities and how state services are paid for? Thanks in advance. Kevin Lothridge Deputy Director/Director of Strategic Development National Forensic Science Technology Center Pinellas Star Center 7887 Bryan Dairy Road Largo, FL 33777 Phone 727-549-6067 Fax 727-549-6070 Cell 727-492-0793 www.nfstc.org From forens-owner Tue Oct 31 18:20:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA25429 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:20:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from web2007.mail.yahoo.com (web2007.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.238]) by brooks.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA25424 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:20:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20001031232003.10987.qmail@web2007.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.32.133.5] by web2007.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:20:03 PST Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:20:03 -0800 (PST) From: Claire Donaghey Subject: identifying insulin? To: Forensic Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hello, does anyone know of a lab that will test a used syringe for the presence of insulin? (Person goes into coma in hospital, blood work shows insulin in her blood, she's not diabetic. Criminal investigation to determine if deliberate poisoning). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thank you, Claire Donaghey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? >From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/