From forens-owner Sun May 2 00:28:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i424S4St019853 for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i424S4lq019852 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 2004 00:28:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: DavidB7818@aol.com Message-ID: <9a.960f924.2dc5d2ce@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 00:27:58 EDT Subject: [forens] Joint Forensic Science Association Meeting - Orlando FL To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu CC: mike.healy@co.manatee.fl.us MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5006 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu A combined meeting of the Southern Association of Forensic Scientists, the Midwestern Association of Forensic Scientists, the Mid-Atlantic Association of Forensic Scientists and the Canadian Society of Forensic Science will be held September 19-24, 2004 at the Grosvenor Resort at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida. Hotel rooms will be available for $89.00 per night. Free meeting registration will be provided for those giving oral presentations of at least fifteen minutes length. Three days of workshops are being finalized and details will be announced shortly. Social activities include a golf tournament on the Disney Magnolia Course, a sit-down luncheon, a banquet accompanied by a performance of the MurderWatch Mystery Theater, and a dance with a 70's theme (come dressed in your best polyester). Registration and workshop fees have not been finalized, but will available by late June/early July. For more information, refer to the SAFS website at www.southernforensic.org or e-mail David Baer at DavidB7818@aol.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by DavidB7818@aol.com] From forens-owner Mon May 3 03:28:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i437SxdM003408 for ; Mon, 3 May 2004 03:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i437SxX5003407 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 2004 03:28:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <4095EE6D.DCAD0B30@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:32:05 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] Vacor, Oximes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, Most toxicology texts mention that just after introduction of Vacor in 1975, several instances of deaths were reported. This begs the question, "What is the smell, taste and color of Vacor? Is it colorless, odorless and tasteless?" Can somebody enlighten please. I would have thought most pesticides had disagreeable taste. Parathion has also been used off and on for homicide. Can somebody tell me the smell, taste and natural color of parathion. I believe in several countries they add indigocarmine to parathion to color it blue, to make it more conspicuous. Secondly, most toxicology texts mention Oximes as NUCLEOPHILES. The name would have us believe that they "love nuclei". What kind of nuclei? Can someone tell me please? Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Wed May 5 01:34:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i455Y4Sg013037 for ; Wed, 5 May 2004 01:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i455Y4mi013036 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 2004 01:34:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: SkipnCar@aol.com Message-ID: <8.4c383e02.2dc9d6bd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 01:33:49 EDT Subject: [forens] ASCLD News To: ascld@lab.fws.gov CC: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5107 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Because of good response from members, the only issues of the ASCLD News we are missing are below. Can you help in this project? Three issues were published roughly in the spring, summer, Fall/Winter. Some were labeled as such; some had months. Need all three issues: need just: 1974 1988 - spring, summer 1975 1989 - summer 1976 1990 - spring, winter 1977 1991 - spring 1978 1994 - spring 1979 2002 - summer, winter 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 Thanks, Carla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carla M. Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL 33067 954-796-8063, telephone & fax skipncar@aol.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Life is not a journey to the next life with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. Rather, skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, loudly proclaiming -- WOW! Thanks! What a Ride! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] From forens-owner Thu May 6 15:19:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i46JJf3r014504 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i46JJecP014503 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 2004 15:19:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040506191933.11197.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT) From: John Lentini Subject: [forens] HGH Lab needed To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <8.4c383e02.2dc9d6bd@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Does anyone know a private lab that can test for Human Growth Hormone? Nothing worthwhile happens until somebody makes it happen. John J. Lentini, johnlentini@yahoo.com Certified Fire Investigator Fellow, American Board of Criminalistics http://www.atslab.com 800-544-5117 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by John Lentini ] From forens-owner Thu May 6 16:10:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i46KAakB016081 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i46KAax6016080 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:10:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040506201036.20406.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 13:10:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Thompson Subject: [forens] Trace Evidence/Serology Books To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Can someone recommend some good books on Trace Evidence Analysis (Lead, Paint etc.) and Serology(Chemical Analysis of Body Fluids etc.). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] From forens-owner Thu May 6 16:18:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i46KItRT016495 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i46KItTE016494 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 2004 16:18:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <409A9DA5.4040503@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 13:18:45 -0700 From: Keith Inman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Trace Evidence/Serology Books References: <20040506201036.20406.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040506201036.20406.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 20:17:38.0303 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D22D8F0:01C433A7] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Robert Thompson wrote: >Can someone recommend some good books on Trace >Evidence Analysis (Lead, Paint etc.) and >Serology(Chemical Analysis of Body Fluids etc.). > > If you can get a copy, the most comprehensive book written on the examination of body fluids is Bob Gaennslen's "Sourcebook in Forensic Serology, Immunology, and Biochemistry," 1983, published by the National Institute of Justice. I believe it's out of print, and I could find no ISBN number on my copy of it. Worth a read is the companion piece, Unit IX, "Translations of Selected Original Literature." Probably more rare than the Sourcebook. Best of luck in your search. All the best............Keith Inman [EndPost by Keith Inman ] From forens-owner Thu May 6 17:34:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i46LYmiB018413 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i46LYmA3018412 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:34:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] HGH Lab needed Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:40:14 -0400 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00ce01c433b2$b71b6e40$7b00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20040506191933.11197.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 21:34:49.0015 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5416C70:01C433B1] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu John, McClendon Clinical Labs at UNC does testing for HGH: http://www.pathology.unc.edu/labs/frame.htm http://www.pathology.med.unc.edu/path/labs/test/g/gh.htm This company says they test for HGH indirectly, via IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor) as an indicator: http://www.bloodspottest.com/ I'd also think that any sports testing lab should be able to test for HGH, since it is a banned supplement in national and international sporting venues. Bob Parsons Crime Lab -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of John Lentini Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:20 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] HGH Lab needed Does anyone know a private lab that can test for Human Growth Hormone? Nothing worthwhile happens until somebody makes it happen. John J. Lentini, johnlentini@yahoo.com Certified Fire Investigator Fellow, American Board of Criminalistics http://www.atslab.com 800-544-5117 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by John Lentini ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Thu May 6 17:46:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i46LkLAl018808 for ; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i46LkK0D018807 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 2004 17:46:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Online Ph.D. In forensic science? Any suggestions Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:51:46 -0400 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00d001c433b4$53a4b6d0$7b00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <40929E47.24AF5B1E@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2004 21:46:21.0140 (UTC) FILETIME=[91CB5140:01C433B3] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i46LkKUb018802 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu There are no PhD programs in general "forensic science" in the United States, online or not (there are I believe only two PhD Forensic Science programs in the entire world). There are, however, PhD degrees with forensic science concentrations, e.g. the PhD in Forensic Toxicology. Go to the AAFS web site for fairly complete list of all graduate programs in the forensic sciences available in the USA, and most of those available abroad. http://www.aafs.org/default.asp?section_id=resources&page_id=colleges_and_un iversities BTW, any PhD in science obtained entirely on-line, with no hands-on research or analytical work in a laboratory, would be considered an illegitimate, worthless degree by most scientists. No legitimate PhD program can be done entirely on-line - all will require periods of time spent in residence on campus (seminars on long weekends or for several weeks each summer during the program, etc.). The University of Florida's MS programs in forensic chemistry and forensic toxicology are a typical example (http://www.forensicscience.ufl.edu/) - the lecture work can be done on-line, but you have to do research in your own lab, attend periodic sessions in person on-campus in Gainesville, and take a comprehensive final examination administered on campus. Science simply can't be learned entirely via distance methods; hands-on, in-person work is necessary. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Professor Anil Aggrawal Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:43 PM To: Forensic Newsgroup (main) Cc: Dena.Weiss@lakelandgov.net Subject: [forens] Online Ph.D. In forensic science? Any suggestions Dear List, I have got the following mail from a student. Her Email is Dena.Weiss@lakelandgov.net Can anyone help her please. Thanks. ************ I currently have a MS in Forensic Science. I am currently a CSI, Latent Print Examiner, and professor for an online university. The online university is pushing for me to get my PHD. I would have to do this online, however, I haven't found any online terminal degrees in Forensic Science. Any suggestions? Thanks for your help! Dena Marie Weiss Dena.Weiss@lakelandgov.net [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri May 7 13:05:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47H5Yf3007564 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 13:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i47H5Ymt007563 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 2004 13:05:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Sensitivity: Subject: [forens] OUIL question To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.9 November 16, 2001 Message-ID: From: Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:05:37 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on FSUNOTES1/FSU(Release 6.0.2CF1|June 9, 2003) at 05/07/2004 01:05:39 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Can anyone answer a question on how getting an OUIL will affect someone's ability to get a forensic science job post graduation? One of my students received one this week (finals partying I imagine) and is very concerned that it will hurt her chances in the future. I believe it is her first brush with the law. Thanks, Mary Bacon Prof. Forensic Science Ferris State University [EndPost by Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu] From forens-owner Fri May 7 13:19:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47HJ6wY008247 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 13:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i47HJ6tl008246 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 2004 13:19:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:17:18 -0700 From: David Moniz Subject: [forens] Conductivity question To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <109e17b10a1b92.10a1b92109e17b@shaw.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003) Content-language: en Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hi I am currently working for a company that needs to do conductivity measurements of solutions. We have affiliates in Europe that are testing the same solutions and we are not obtaining consistent data. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions that might lead us to be able to explain the discrepancies or sources that I could check for more information. I know that there are diffent conversion factors used by meters (namely KCl, NaCl and the 4-4-2 methods) and I was wondering if anyone knows of a way of converting between the methods and between ppm and milisiemens/cm values. Thanks for the help everyone. Cheers David Moniz [EndPost by David Moniz ] From forens-owner Fri May 7 13:27:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47HRvM4008734 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 13:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i47HRucG008732 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 2004 13:27:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Dr. Adolfo Scatena" Subject: Riot Police Shotguns I am studying wonds produced by rubber pellets from Police Shotguns, and I can not find out what is the maximun distance needed for the pellets to perforate the skin Can some body help me? Thanks, --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Fri May 7 14:00:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47I0e52011074 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i47I0d5e011073 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:00:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Subject: RE: [forens] OUIL question Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:59:36 -0400 Message-ID: <6834EDC78F56C4439EF5D9B530B7F785197BE1@ATF-HQ-EXMB01.ad.msnet.atf.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] OUIL question Thread-Index: AcQ0VjCzrM2tfVZgSgCFXzVp82B/FAABtJ8g From: "Thompson, Robert M." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 17:59:36.0455 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F2EE170:01C4345D] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i47I0dvv011068 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu OULI = ? Robert M. Thompson Firearms and Toolmark Examiner ATF Forensic Science Laboratory-Washington 6000 Ammendale Road Ammendale, MD 20705 Desk: (240) 264-3846 FAX: (240) 264-1498 Cell: (301) 980-5447 Robert.Thompson@atf.gov -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:06 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] OUIL question Can anyone answer a question on how getting an OUIL will affect someone's ability to get a forensic science job post graduation? One of my students received one this week (finals partying I imagine) and is very concerned that it will hurt her chances in the future. I believe it is her first brush with the law. Thanks, Mary Bacon Prof. Forensic Science Ferris State University [EndPost by Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu] [EndPost by "Thompson, Robert M." ] From forens-owner Fri May 7 14:10:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47IAMaT011603 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i47IAM82011600 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 2004 14:10:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <409BD068.6010902@lbl.gov> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:07:36 -0700 From: "T. J. Wilkinson" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] OUIL question References: <6834EDC78F56C4439EF5D9B530B7F785197BE1@ATF-HQ-EXMB01.ad.msnet.atf.gov> In-Reply-To: <6834EDC78F56C4439EF5D9B530B7F785197BE1@ATF-HQ-EXMB01.ad.msnet.atf.gov> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu OUIL = Operating Under the Influence of Liquor aka Misdemeanor DUI T. J. Wilkinson Lawrence Berkeley National Lab Thompson, Robert M. wrote: >OULI = ? > >Robert M. Thompson >Firearms and Toolmark Examiner >ATF Forensic Science Laboratory-Washington >6000 Ammendale Road >Ammendale, MD 20705 >Desk: (240) 264-3846 >FAX: (240) 264-1498 >Cell: (301) 980-5447 >Robert.Thompson@atf.gov > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu >[mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:06 PM >To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu >Subject: [forens] OUIL question > > > > > > >Can anyone answer a question on how getting an OUIL will affect someone's >ability to get a forensic science job post graduation? One of my students >received one this week (finals partying I imagine) and is very concerned >that it will hurt her chances in the future. I believe it is her first >brush with the law. > >Thanks, >Mary Bacon >Prof. Forensic Science >Ferris State University > >[EndPost by Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu] > >[EndPost by "Thompson, Robert M." ] > > [EndPost by "T. J. Wilkinson" ] From forens-owner Fri May 7 15:18:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47JIhwM013339 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 15:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i47JIhGt013338 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 2004 15:18:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Server-Uuid: 4E5BE52A-5ED8-484B-ADCA-5DDEE8B353BE Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.3 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 12:17:53 -0700 From: "Geoff Bruton" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu cc: quesca@infovia.com.ar Subject: Re: [forens] forwarded message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 6C853F701O0315977-01-01 Content-Disposition: inline X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i47JIbs3013331 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Sir, The issue is not one of distance alone, but rather the velocity of the projectile at that distance, the mass/density/shape of the projectile and the area impacted. Di Maio, in his book, "Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques", cites research performed by himself and others using lead bullets and lead airgun pellets. Generally, the lighter the projectile, the higher the velocity required to perforate human skin. Examples include: .177 airgun pellets (8.25 grains) required a minimum of 331 ft/sec to perforate skin on "human lower extremities"; .22 airgun pellets (16.5 grains) required 245 ft/sec; .38 cal. round nose bullets (113 grains) required 191 ft/sec. Further research into the velocity necessary for BBs to penetrate the eye was carried out by Powley, Dahlstrom, Atkins & Fackler, and was published in the Journal of the International Wound Ballistics Association, Volume 3, Issue 1, 1997. Of course, this doesn't help your scenario, but it might point you in the right directions with regards to how complicated wound ballistics can get and how many variables there are. I would be interested in hearing your conclusions. Good luck and best wishes to all, Geoff. Geoff Bruton Ventura County Sheriff's Department Forensic Sciences Laboratory Firearms & Toolmarks Section (805) 477-7266 >>> cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu 05/07/04 10:27AM >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Dr. Adolfo Scatena" Subject: Riot Police Shotguns I am studying wonds produced by rubber pellets from Police Shotguns, and I can not find out what is the maximun distance needed for the pellets to perforate the skin Can some body help me? Thanks, [EndPost by "Geoff Bruton" ] From forens-owner Fri May 7 16:17:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47KHpJC015246 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 16:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i47KHp9t015245 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 2004 16:17:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 23:17:41 +0300 From: Azriel Gorski Subject: Re: [forens] OUIL question In-reply-to: X-Sender: azrielg@mail.netvision.net.il To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040507230427.01a766c0@mail.netvision.net.il> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 References: X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Very personal feeling - the OUIL will not help them, but I am also fairly certain that it will not disqualify them, as long as it is there is not a pattern, AND they don't try to hid it. Most police agencies don't expect perfection in their employees, and realize sh_t happens. They are very concerned about the persons character. If there is a pattern there; if the person tries to hide it or shows a trend towards dishonesty in how they deal with it, then IMHO it will hurt them. Thus **I feel**, how the person handles this matter, rather than the fact that it exists, will determine how it will effect their employability. Life is lived with what you get/have, not what you wish you had. Her future in forensics will be full of times when they are have to deal with a none optimum situation. Shalom from Jerusalem, Azriel Gorski At 20:05 07.05.04, you wrote: >Can anyone answer a question on how getting an OUIL will affect someone's >ability to get a forensic science job post graduation? One of my students >received one this week (finals partying I imagine) and is very concerned >that it will hurt her chances in the future. I believe it is her first >brush with the law. > >Thanks, >Mary Bacon >Prof. Forensic Science >Ferris State University > >[EndPost by Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu] ******************************************************************** Azriel Gorski, PhD Forensic Science Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre The Hebrew University of Jerusalem http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge that shapes lifetimes Richard Bach ******************************************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Azriel Gorski ] From forens-owner Fri May 7 18:44:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i47MiBwg018364 for ; Fri, 7 May 2004 18:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i47MiBvM018363 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 2004 18:44:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] OUIL question Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 18:49:37 -0400 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <002701c43485$9323ace0$7b00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 May 2004 22:44:11.0570 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0BEA920:01C43484] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i47MiA9P018358 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu It is an unfortunate truism that we must all lie in the beds we make for ourselves, and live with the consequences of exercising poor judgment in our lives. In this instance, your student has particular reason for concern because the offense occurred while a legal adult (if it had been a juvenile offense, with no repetition, there would likely be no significant repercussions). An adult criminal conviction of any kind is going to be an albatross around her neck that will decrease her chances of being hired by a forensic laboratory. Many crime labs will not consider employing a candidate who has ANY criminal conviction of any kind (I personally don't know of any that would, but there may be some). If this is in fact her first criminal offense of any kind (juvenile or adult), that may be taken into consideration by some labs and could mitigate the negative effects. The fact that it is only a misdemeanor offense should help also. Law enforcement agencies as a rule completely bar convicted felons (and often first degree misdemeanants) from employment, but many will overlook a minor misdemeanor offense, especially if it is an isolated incident which did not occur in the recent past. If your student can keep her nose clean from now on, so that when she begins applying for jobs this incident is an isolated one in the distant past, then she may still have a reasonable chance. However, it is CRUCIAL that she have no further problems with the law from this point onward. A record of multiple different offenses or repeat offenses of the same kind will eliminate her from any chance of consideration for employment in forensic science. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:06 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] OUIL question Can anyone answer a question on how getting an OUIL will affect someone's ability to get a forensic science job post graduation? One of my students received one this week (finals partying I imagine) and is very concerned that it will hurt her chances in the future. I believe it is her first brush with the law. Thanks, Mary Bacon Prof. Forensic Science Ferris State University [EndPost by Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Mon May 10 10:08:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4AE8gih022859 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:08:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4AE8gNC022858 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:08:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:06:53 -0700 From: "CHRISTOPHER BREYER" To: Subject: [forens] Vital Lung Capacity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu A colleague has raised the question of vital lung capacity, with regard to providing a breath alcohol test. Does anyone have ready to reference to average vital lung capacity, with an accompanying range for a majority of persons? We have one note, unsourced for the moment, which quotes ~ 4L. Web searches elicit basic laboratory procedure worksheets, for the most part, with no hard data. Any response will be appreciated. Chris Breyer [EndPost by "CHRISTOPHER BREYER" ] From forens-owner Mon May 10 11:23:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4AFNwVZ024900 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4AFNwkT024899 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:23:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <0A6B9379-A296-11D8-B6B8-000A959EEC38@esc.unil.ch> From: Christophe Champod Subject: [forens] Call for unpublished report: 14th Interpol Symposium Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:23:51 +0200 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-8859-1;format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4AFNwVZ024901 Dear list members, Our institute is serving as coordinating laboratory for the 14th International Forensic Science Symposium to be held in Lyon in October 2004 (more info on http://www.interpol.int/Public/Forensic/IFSS/Default.asp). Our role is to prepare a review paper covering all material published or unpublished (including trend assessments, internal reports, etc.) from 2001 until today in the forensic fields of marks and impressions (both detection and identification). That includes fingerprints, toolmarks, footwear marks, earprints, footprints, etc. Our library allows us an easy access to most mainstream forensic journals, however we would like to cover unpublished (or published in less readily available journals) work as well. If you would like that we give an echo to some of your unpublished (or to be published) work, feel free to contact us and send us the relevant material. We will make sure that our report cover your material and provide it full visibility. The review paper will be published in the proceedings of the meeting. Feel free to share this demand with any colleague who would be interested. We thank you in advance for your kind assistance and we look forward to hearing from you, Kind regards, Christophe Champod ----------------------------------------- Prof. Christophe Champod Ecole des sciences criminelles - Institut de Police Scientifique Université de Lausanne BCH CH-1015 Lausanne tel: +41 (0)21 692 46 29 fax: +41 (0)21 692 46 05 e-mail: cchampod@mac.com or Christophe.Champod@esc.unil.ch --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by Christophe Champod ] From forens-owner Mon May 10 11:56:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4AFu7uc025887 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4AFu7ew025886 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 2004 11:56:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <16186150.1084204566103.JavaMail.cvmorton@mac.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:56:06 -0700 From: Charles V Morton To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Vital Lung Capacity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I am sure there are more recent publications that have this information but Documenta Geigy Scientific Tables has references and tables for Vital Capacity and includes a separate nomogram for calculating vital capacity based on age, sex and height. I hope this is of some assistance. Chuck Morton On Monday, May 10, 2004, at 07:06AM, CHRISTOPHER BREYER wrote: >A colleague has raised the question of vital lung capacity, with regard >to providing a breath alcohol test. > >Does anyone have ready to reference to average vital lung capacity, >with an accompanying range for a majority of persons? > >We have one note, unsourced for the moment, which quotes ~ 4L. Web >searches elicit basic laboratory procedure worksheets, for the most >part, with no hard data. > >Any response will be appreciated. > >Chris Breyer >[EndPost by "CHRISTOPHER BREYER" ] > > [EndPost by Charles V Morton ] From forens-owner Mon May 10 16:13:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4AKDpaB001304 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 16:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4AKDpMo001303 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 2004 16:13:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <0A6B9379-A296-11D8-B6B8-000A959EEC38@esc.unil.ch> From: Christophe Champod Subject: [forens] Call for unpublished report: 14th Interpol Symposium Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:23:51 +0200 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4AFNwVZ024901 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4AFPdAr025029 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2004 15:30:22.0758 (UTC) FILETIME=[B59A6460:01C436A3] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4AKDo6H001298 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=ISO-8859-1;format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear list members, Our institute is serving as coordinating laboratory for the 14th International Forensic Science Symposium to be held in Lyon in October 2004 (more info on http://www.interpol.int/Public/Forensic/IFSS/Default.asp). Our role is to prepare a review paper covering all material published or unpublished (including trend assessments, internal reports, etc.) from 2001 until today in the forensic fields of marks and impressions (both detection and identification). That includes fingerprints, toolmarks, footwear marks, earprints, footprints, etc. Our library allows us an easy access to most mainstream forensic journals, however we would like to cover unpublished (or published in less readily available journals) work as well. If you would like that we give an echo to some of your unpublished (or to be published) work, feel free to contact us and send us the relevant material. We will make sure that our report cover your material and provide it full visibility. The review paper will be published in the proceedings of the meeting. Feel free to share this demand with any colleague who would be interested. We thank you in advance for your kind assistance and we look forward to hearing from you, Kind regards, Christophe Champod ----------------------------------------- Prof. Christophe Champod Ecole des sciences criminelles - Institut de Police Scientifique Université de Lausanne BCH CH-1015 Lausanne tel: +41 (0)21 692 46 29 fax: +41 (0)21 692 46 05 e-mail: cchampod@mac.com or Christophe.Champod@esc.unil.ch --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by Christophe Champod ] [EndPost by Christophe Champod ] From forens-owner Mon May 10 18:08:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4AM8k3A003782 for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 18:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4AM8kYQ003781 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 2004 18:08:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:11:00 +1000 From: Morris Odell Subject: RE: [forens] Vital Lung Capacity In-reply-to: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E775AC21F@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A37A@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Organization: Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > A colleague has raised the question of vital lung capacity, > with regard to providing a breath alcohol test. > > Does anyone have ready to reference to average vital lung > capacity, with an accompanying range for a majority of persons? > > We have one note, unsourced for the moment, which quotes ~ > 4L. Web searches elicit basic laboratory procedure > worksheets, for the most part, with no hard data. > > Any response will be appreciated. We did some work on this back in 1998 although we were looking at respiratory cripples rather than normals. The reference is: J. Clin Forensic Medicine (1998) 5:45-48 Odell et al "Breath testing in patients with respiratory disability" Morris ***CONFIDENTIAL*** The information in this message and in any attachments may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not read, forward, print, copy, disclose, or use in any way the information this message or any attachment contains. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete or destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by Morris Odell ] From forens-owner Tue May 11 12:15:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4BGFH9n016868 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4BGFHGO016867 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:15:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <37085173BA7AD511B5970001026A046F0548F7DE@dojexchange02.doj.state.wi.us> From: "Polakowski, Sharon M." To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] HemaTrace and Ferrets Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:14:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To the list, Does anyone have documentation (a validation study, paper, presentation, etc.) regarding the cross-reaction of ferret blood with HemaTrace ABACards? Our DNA section is looking for actual documentation of this cross-reaction and haven't been able to find any through a variety of searches. Thanks. Sharon Polakowski DNA Analyst Wisconsin State Crime Laboratory - Milwaukee polakowskism@doj.state.wi.us [EndPost by "Polakowski, Sharon M." ] From forens-owner Tue May 11 12:49:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4BGnDmX017755 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4BGnDG8017754 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 2004 12:49:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <8A8F2B3AD27F454695C6129172BD2E4C02BF8273@dps-sphqasmail1.ps.state.me.us> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] HemaTrace and Ferrets Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:48:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu We do have the validation documentation and somewhere my presentation for NEAFS. I never got around to publishing the work due to time constraints and figured since there has been such a time lapse, it isn't really worthwhile. I can send a copy of our in-house write-up of necessary. There is a disclaimer in the ABAcard product insert as well. Gretchen Hicks Maine State Police Crime Laboratory -----Original Message----- From: Polakowski, Sharon M. [mailto:polakowskism@DOJ.STATE.WI.US] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:15 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] HemaTrace and Ferrets To the list, Does anyone have documentation (a validation study, paper, presentation, etc.) regarding the cross-reaction of ferret blood with HemaTrace ABACards? Our DNA section is looking for actual documentation of this cross-reaction and haven't been able to find any through a variety of searches. Thanks. Sharon Polakowski DNA Analyst Wisconsin State Crime Laboratory - Milwaukee polakowskism@doj.state.wi.us [EndPost by "Polakowski, Sharon M." ] [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] From forens-owner Tue May 11 18:00:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4BM0iOJ024744 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 18:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4BM0ih9024743 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 2004 18:00:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040511220029.14010.qmail@web20508.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:00:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Abercrombie Subject: [forens] Digital Imaging Query To: Forensic Science Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To all - I've been tasked with finding out the current 'state of the art' regarding digital imaging procedures - specifically dealing with policies/procedures for capturing digital images outside of the laboratory (e.g., crime scene documentation, etc.). I have a short series of initial questions that I'd like answered. Please respond back to me off list (at either of my email addresses - jta@rocketmail.com or jtabercrombie@oaklandnet.com, or my snail-mail, phone or FAX below) and once the (hoped for) deluge of answers slows down, I'll compile the info and provide the forens-l list my compilation. (1) Do your crime scene responders currently use digital imaging technology or film (or both) for their official image documentation? The following questions are to be answered only for those agencies that use digital imaging technology for some or all of their documentation - - (2) If your agency utilizes digital imaging technology, do they use it for all calls? (3) Does your agency have a formalized procedure and/or SOP regarding the use of digital imaging technology? (4) Is your agency familiar with the SWGIT Guidelines? (5) Does your agency adhere to SWGIT Guidelines? (6) If the answer to (5) above is NO - what specific area of the SWGIT Guidelines does your agency not follow - and why not? Thanks for your response, Tom Abercrombie, Criminalist III/Supervisor Oakland Police Department Crime Laboratory 455 Seventh Street - Room 608 Oakland, CA 94607 Phone - 510.238.3386 FAX - 510.238.6555 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover [EndPost by Tom Abercrombie ] From forens-owner Tue May 11 21:50:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4C1ooSH026956 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 21:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4C1ooEa026955 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 2004 21:50:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: From: "Donnelly, Andrew (DAIS)" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] HemaTrace and Ferrets Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:20:03 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Positive reaction to ferret is mentioned in: Johnston et al Canandian J of For. Sci. 36(3)p173-183, 2003. -----Original Message----- From: Hicks, Gretchen D [mailto:Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov] Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 2004 2:19 To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: RE: [forens] HemaTrace and Ferrets We do have the validation documentation and somewhere my presentation for NEAFS. I never got around to publishing the work due to time constraints and figured since there has been such a time lapse, it isn't really worthwhile. I can send a copy of our in-house write-up of necessary. There is a disclaimer in the ABAcard product insert as well. Gretchen Hicks Maine State Police Crime Laboratory -----Original Message----- From: Polakowski, Sharon M. [mailto:polakowskism@DOJ.STATE.WI.US] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:15 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] HemaTrace and Ferrets To the list, Does anyone have documentation (a validation study, paper, presentation, etc.) regarding the cross-reaction of ferret blood with HemaTrace ABACards? Our DNA section is looking for actual documentation of this cross-reaction and haven't been able to find any through a variety of searches. Thanks. Sharon Polakowski DNA Analyst Wisconsin State Crime Laboratory - Milwaukee polakowskism@doj.state.wi.us [EndPost by "Polakowski, Sharon M." ] [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] [EndPost by "Donnelly, Andrew (DAIS)" ] From forens-owner Wed May 12 08:37:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4CCbwik005174 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 08:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4CCbwRY005173 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 2004 08:37:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Digital Imaging Query MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: smithj@mshp.state.mo.us Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:37:55 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on GHQPROD/MSHP400(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 05/12/2004 07:37:51 AM, Serialize complete at 05/12/2004 07:37:51 AM X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Tom, Go to the firstgov.gov site, http://www.firstgov.gov/fgsearch/index.jsp Under search type in "digital imaging". Many sites pop up dealing with digital imaging in forensics. Forensic Science Communication uses this site to search back issues. You can get this list through FSC also. There is a SWGDE document listed in this search. Jenny Smith, Criminalist III Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime Lab 1510 East Elm Street Jefferson City, MO 65101 ph: 573-526-6134 ex 282 Tom Abercrombie Sent by: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu 05/11/2004 05:00 PM Please respond to forens To: Forensic Science Mailing List cc: Subject: [forens] Digital Imaging Query To all - I've been tasked with finding out the current 'state of the art' regarding digital imaging procedures - specifically dealing with policies/procedures for capturing digital images outside of the laboratory (e.g., crime scene documentation, etc.). I have a short series of initial questions that I'd like answered. Please respond back to me off list (at either of my email addresses - jta@rocketmail.com or jtabercrombie@oaklandnet.com, or my snail-mail, phone or FAX below) and once the (hoped for) deluge of answers slows down, I'll compile the info and provide the forens-l list my compilation. (1) Do your crime scene responders currently use digital imaging technology or film (or both) for their official image documentation? The following questions are to be answered only for those agencies that use digital imaging technology for some or all of their documentation - - (2) If your agency utilizes digital imaging technology, do they use it for all calls? (3) Does your agency have a formalized procedure and/or SOP regarding the use of digital imaging technology? (4) Is your agency familiar with the SWGIT Guidelines? (5) Does your agency adhere to SWGIT Guidelines? (6) If the answer to (5) above is NO - what specific area of the SWGIT Guidelines does your agency not follow - and why not? Thanks for your response, Tom Abercrombie, Criminalist III/Supervisor Oakland Police Department Crime Laboratory 455 Seventh Street - Room 608 Oakland, CA 94607 Phone - 510.238.3386 FAX - 510.238.6555 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover [EndPost by Tom Abercrombie ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by smithj@mshp.state.mo.us] From forens-owner Wed May 12 16:30:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4CKUlJR015133 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 16:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4CKUlRS015132 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 2004 16:30:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Sensitivity: Subject: RE: [forens] OUIL question To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.9 November 16, 2001 Message-ID: From: Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:30:42 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on FSUNOTES1/FSU(Release 6.0.2CF1|June 9, 2003) at 05/12/2004 04:30:48 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Opps! Sorry about that... OUIL is operating under the influence of liquor. [EndPost by Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu] From forens-owner Wed May 12 21:58:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4D1wOjw018092 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 21:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4D1wOaK018091 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 2004 21:58:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Cat" To: Subject: [forens] Automotive Paints and Coatings Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:57:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I know this is a hard-to-find book. There's one available at http://tinyurl.com/25jor for $182.12. ISBN 3527286373 Automotive Paints and Coatings by Gordon Fettis Cat [EndPost by "Cat" ] From forens-owner Wed May 12 22:09:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4D293Dm018588 for ; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4D293UP018587 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 2004 22:09:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:09:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:45:52 -0500 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu, From: Dale Nute Subject: Re: [forens] Vital Lung Capacity That exam is a part of many physical exams now, I had one last year for my diving physical. I am assuming that a pulmonary specialist or physical therapist should have data about averages as they have to decide whether you pass or not. Dale Nute At 07:06 AM 5/10/2004 -0700, CHRISTOPHER BREYER wrote: >A colleague has raised the question of vital lung capacity, with regard >to providing a breath alcohol test. > >Does anyone have ready to reference to average vital lung capacity, >with an accompanying range for a majority of persons? > >We have one note, unsourced for the moment, which quotes ~ 4L. Web >searches elicit basic laboratory procedure worksheets, for the most >part, with no hard data. > >Any response will be appreciated. > >Chris Breyer >[EndPost by "CHRISTOPHER BREYER" ] [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Thu May 13 08:02:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4DC2GV9025297 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4DC2GHl025296 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 2004 08:02:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Message-Id: <5FEC3388-A4D5-11D8-8FCC-0003930DFAA4@statgen.ncsu.edu> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: basten Subject: [forens] Statistics and Population Genetics Training Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:02:15 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu NC State University is offering three opportunities for training in statistics and population genetics for interpreting DNA evidence: 1. Short course in Raleigh NC, May 31-June 2, 2004 2. Short course in Faro, Portugal, July 21-23, 2004 Details for these at http://statgen.ncsu.edu 3. Internet graduate level course, Fall semester 2004 Details for this course ST610C at http://distance.ncsu.edu ------------------- Christopher J. Basten Phone: (919)515-1934 Bioinformatics Res. Center Fax: (919)515-7315 N. C. State University Email: basten@statgen.ncsu.edu Raleigh, NC 27695-7566 Location: 1523 Partners II Building URL: http://statgen.ncsu.edu/~basten [EndPost by basten ] From forens-owner Thu May 13 18:04:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4DM4qfo007165 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 18:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4DM4q2B007164 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 2004 18:04:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: SkipnCar@aol.com Message-ID: <8a.addaba0.2dd54af9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:04:41 EDT Subject: [forens] Still Need A Few More Issues MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5111 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Some of you have responded for the call for copies of the ASCLD News. However, we are still in need of those below. Can you help? The issues will be returned if you so request. Three issues/year were called Spring, Summer, Fall/Winter; some had months names. need all three issues from: also need: 1974 1988 - spring, summer 1975 1989 - summer 1976 1990 - spring, winter 1977 1991 - spring 1978 1994 - spring 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 Thanks, Carla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carla M. Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL 33067 954-796-8063, telephone & fax skipncar@aol.com Live Well Laugh Often Love Much --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] From forens-owner Thu May 13 18:50:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4DMo8rK007777 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 18:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4DMo8WF007776 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 2004 18:50:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Chris LENNARD" To: Subject: [forens] Forensic LIMS & RFID Tags Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:50:04 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <00a001c4138c$e7166410$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List Members, I am seeking advice on commercial LIMS packages suitable for a multi-discipline, multi-site forensic laboratory. I would also appreciate comments from anyone who has had experience with the use of RFID tags to track exhibits (an idea that we would like to pursue). The Forensic Services section of the Australian Federal Police (AFP) is the AFP's principal provider of forensic support services. The main laboratory is located in Canberra, with smaller facilities in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth (all connected via a high-speed WAN). There are approximately 140 members of staff in total, across disciplines that include Fingerprints, Crime Scenes, Firearms & Toolmarks, Biology, Chemistry, Document Examination, Computer Forensic, Audio/Video Enhancement, and Photographics. We are commencing a market survey to find a suitable commercial LIMS package to service all of our sites from a centrally administered server. We would like the package to deal with exhibit/sample management, be compatible with barcodes and RFIDs, provide for fully electronic case files (including storage and archiving of digital images), look after automatic report generation/submission, quality assurance reviews (tech/admin reviews on case files), etc. Any comments that you may have based on your experiences (good or bad) with different packages would be appreciated. Are there packages that you would strongly recommend or definitely avoid? Please respond off the list to the following address: clennard@netspeed.com.au Thanking you in advance. Dr Chris Lennard Manager Forensic Operations Support AFP Forensic Services GPO Box 401 Canberra, ACT 2601 Australia [EndPost by "Chris LENNARD" ] From forens-owner Thu May 13 20:37:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4E0bCvd009625 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 20:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4E0bCkk009624 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 2004 20:37:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <012601c43946$d9d7d0b0$48d0a50c@ertc665583d75f> From: "Mike Wise" To: References: Subject: [forens] ?? Re Expected Results of a Beheading Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:03:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu After viewing the video of the beheading of Nick Berg, a forensic question arises. If a living person was held down and then someone started cutting the side if their neck with a substantial knife, what would we expect to see in terms of immediate blood loss? [EndPost by "Mike Wise" ] From forens-owner Thu May 13 21:18:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4E1ICS7010254 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 21:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4E1IBF3010253 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 2004 21:18:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: FORENSIC022@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:17:55 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] ?? Re Expected Results of a Beheading To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5110 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Mike - You have raised a very good question here. I too was struck by the lack of blood when I watched the tape. As a result I have some reservations about the video. Hopefully one of the pathologists on this list can shed some light on this for us. Brad Brown --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by FORENSIC022@aol.com] From forens-owner Thu May 13 21:30:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4E1UklZ010660 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 21:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4E1UkWS010659 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 2004 21:30:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:33:02 +1000 From: Morris Odell Subject: RE: [forens] ?? Re Expected Results of a Beheading In-reply-to: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E775B6C7E@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A3AC@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Organization: Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > You have raised a very good question here. I too was struck > by the lack of > blood when I watched the tape. As a result I have some > reservations about the > video. Hopefully one of the pathologists on this list can > shed some light on > this for us. I only saw it once but I thought I could briefly see blood speading out from the neck onto the floor. The video quality is very poor. There are several large vessels under high pressure in the neck. Severing them should lead to profuse bleeding. Dr Morris Odell Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine ***CONFIDENTIAL*** The information in this message and in any attachments may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not read, forward, disclose, or use in any way the information this message or any attachment contains. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete or destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by Morris Odell ] From forens-owner Thu May 13 21:35:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4E1Zh4a011042 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 21:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4E1Zhma011041 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 2004 21:35:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <001701c43953$c419f200$48d0a50c@ertc665583d75f> From: "Mike Wise" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] ?? Re Expected Results of a Beheading Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:35:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The tape is obviously edited, but not sure for what reason. The tape counter is at 2:44:08 when the subjects approach him and knock him over. But when the "sawing" starts, it is at 13:45:48. Even when the tape starts initially (at 13:26:25) the numbers change as Berg makes his statement and jump to 2:18:35. Further, the audio track is not in synch with the video. Plus at the start of the sawing, the white masked guy is holding Berg's arms and a black masked guy is cutting. But the counter jumps from 13:46:32 to 13:47:46 and at the end of the tape, the white masked guy is finishing the cut and holding the head up. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [forens] ?? Re Expected Results of a Beheading > Mike - > > You have raised a very good question here. I too was struck by the lack of > blood when I watched the tape. As a result I have some reservations about the > video. Hopefully one of the pathologists on this list can shed some light on > this for us. > > Brad Brown > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by FORENSIC022@aol.com] > [EndPost by "Mike Wise" ] From forens-owner Sun May 16 14:23:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4GINu1H007652 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 14:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4GINuhH007651 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 2004 14:23:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <005d01c43b72$f00c1250$c207b1c8@Micro1> From: "Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia" To: "Forens List" , "Forensic-Science" Subject: [forens] Protocol to Vegetal Fiber Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:16:20 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2739.300 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4GINu1H007653 Dear List members, Sorry for the cross posting. I need to prepare a protocol for the laboratory analysis destined to the identification of vegetable fibers. Could anybody help me? Cheers, Prof. Dr. Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia Crime Scene and Forensic Entomology Expert Full Professor of Criminalistics at the Police Academy Health Security Engeneer Lawyer Caixa Postal, 179 15030-200 São José do Rio Preto, SP - Brasil http://www.pericias-forenses.com.br peritus@e24x7.com.br j_peritus@hotmail.com (MSN) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia" ] From forens-owner Sun May 16 14:48:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4GImfO5008131 for ; Sun, 16 May 2004 14:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4GImfeD008130 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 2004 14:48:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:48:13 +0300 From: Azriel Gorski Subject: Re: [forens] Protocol to Vegetal Fiber In-reply-to: <005d01c43b72$f00c1250$c207b1c8@Micro1> X-Sender: azrielg@mail.netvision.net.il To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040516214239.01a79538@mail.netvision.net.il> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 References: <005d01c43b72$f00c1250$c207b1c8@Micro1> X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4GImfO5008132 A protocol for any and all vegetable fibers is very difficult if not impossible. The ID of vegetable fibers, once you move beyond cotton and flax is currently not done by many. The presence of indigenous peoples who use native crops for ropes and cordage will also complicate it. So lets start by trying to define a population of fibers you want to ID. If you want to do this off the list, drop me a line at azrielg@cc.huji.ac.il Shalom from Jerusalem, Azriel At 21:16 16.05.04, you wrote: > Dear List members, > > Sorry for the cross posting. > > I need to prepare a protocol for the laboratory analysis destined to > the identification of vegetable fibers. > > Could anybody help me? > > Cheers, > >Prof. Dr. Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia >Crime Scene and Forensic Entomology Expert >Full Professor of Criminalistics at the Police Academy >Health Security Engeneer >Lawyer > >Caixa Postal, 179 >15030-200 São José do Rio Preto, SP - Brasil > >http://www.pericias-forenses.com.br > >peritus@e24x7.com.br >j_peritus@hotmail.com (MSN) > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >[EndPost by "Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia" ] ******************************************************************** Azriel Gorski, PhD Forensic Science Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre The Hebrew University of Jerusalem http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge that shapes lifetimes Richard Bach ******************************************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Azriel Gorski ] From forens-owner Mon May 17 11:34:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4HFYcl8028975 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4HFYcYm028974 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:34:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] mace question MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: smithj@mshp.state.mo.us Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:34:31 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on GHQPROD/MSHP400(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 05/17/2004 10:34:32 AM, Serialize complete at 05/17/2004 10:34:32 AM X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I working on a case involving a homicide victim who was *possibly* sprayed with some type of mace (it seems more likely that mace was not used). There are no visible stains on the shirt that suggest the use of mace. Since there are no visible stains I'm thinking there is nothing else for me to do, but I'm wondering if the collective is aware of any other way to confirm the absence or presence of mace? Is there anything else I should do? Jenny Smith, Criminalist III Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime Lab 1510 East Elm Street Jefferson City, MO 65101 ph: 573-526-6134 ex 282 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by smithj@mshp.state.mo.us] From forens-owner Mon May 17 11:44:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4HFiRTm029446 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4HFiRUk029445 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:44:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [forens] mace question Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:45:08 -0600 Message-ID: <44C9E6938137A54AB9AAA9723DE70E9F0208AA54@admnts61.co.arapahoe.co.us> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] mace question thread-index: AcQ8JWj2Y9Qt/CDyRXu2a1NQXDHxPQAADRKg From: "Jeff Baker" To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4HFiQnG029440 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Jenny, Have you tried using an alternate light source to look at the shirt. I believe there was something on this site (?) a while back about pepper spray (not "mace" specifically) traces being visualized under ALS. Worth a quick try. -Jeff- -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of smithj@mshp.state.mo.us Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:35 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] mace question I working on a case involving a homicide victim who was *possibly* sprayed with some type of mace (it seems more likely that mace was not used). There are no visible stains on the shirt that suggest the use of mace. Since there are no visible stains I'm thinking there is nothing else for me to do, but I'm wondering if the collective is aware of any other way to confirm the absence or presence of mace? Is there anything else I should do? Jenny Smith, Criminalist III Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime Lab 1510 East Elm Street Jefferson City, MO 65101 ph: 573-526-6134 ex 282 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by smithj@mshp.state.mo.us] [EndPost by "Jeff Baker" ] From forens-owner Mon May 17 11:53:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4HFrHPr029923 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4HFrHgQ029922 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 2004 11:53:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:52:48 -0700 From: "Brad Putnam" To: Subject: Re: [forens] mace question Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Jenny - We worked a case where pepper spray was used. The individuals involved noticed a burning in the eyes and a scratch in the throat - before the comments of pepper spray were known. After a meeting with officers the symptoms made since and we went back found that stain and confirmed the material on the GC/MS. I would say if the time frame is short and you didn't notice any symptoms by handling the garment the likelihood of it being present is low. Brad Putnam - Oregon State Police >>> smithj@mshp.state.mo.us 05/17/04 08:34AM >>> I working on a case involving a homicide victim who was *possibly* sprayed with some type of mace (it seems more likely that mace was not used). There are no visible stains on the shirt that suggest the use of mace. Since there are no visible stains I'm thinking there is nothing else for me to do, but I'm wondering if the collective is aware of any other way to confirm the absence or presence of mace? Is there anything else I should do? Jenny Smith, Criminalist III Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime Lab 1510 East Elm Street Jefferson City, MO 65101 ph: 573-526-6134 ex 282 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by smithj@mshp.state.mo.us] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Brad Putnam" ] From forens-owner Mon May 17 14:22:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4HIMPxp003714 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4HIMP7d003713 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 2004 14:22:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8501BACC11@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Ammen, Alice" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] mace question Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:22:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Jenny- There is an article in JFS 2004;(49)3: 469, on Visualization and LC/MS Analysis of Colorless Pepper Sprays by Cavett et al. Alice Ammen Montana Forensic Science Division -----Original Message----- From: smithj@mshp.state.mo.us [mailto:smithj@mshp.state.mo.us] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:35 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] mace question I working on a case involving a homicide victim who was *possibly* sprayed with some type of mace (it seems more likely that mace was not used). There are no visible stains on the shirt that suggest the use of mace. Since there are no visible stains I'm thinking there is nothing else for me to do, but I'm wondering if the collective is aware of any other way to confirm the absence or presence of mace? Is there anything else I should do? Jenny Smith, Criminalist III Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime Lab 1510 East Elm Street Jefferson City, MO 65101 ph: 573-526-6134 ex 282 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by smithj@mshp.state.mo.us] [EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] From forens-owner Thu May 20 18:05:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4KM5aRR016345 for ; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4KM5anX016344 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 2004 18:05:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:05:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I think that this was meant for the original poster. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Ted Mozer" To: Cc: Subject: LIMS Hello Chris. =20 =20 I am the LIMS Administration for our system, the New Jersey State Police Office of Forensic Science. We are in our second year of the = implementation of the Porter Lee Corporation LIMS system called "The Beast". Most of = the evidence tracking features of The Beast are in full operation. Other features, like automatically generated reports from our various units (Drugs, Tox, Criminialistics, DNA, Crime Scene, Ballistics, Photography = and Anthropology) are still a work-in-progress. =20 =20 I would be happy to help you in any way I can or to answer specific questions. =20 Please feel free to email me at ted.mozer@gw.njsp.org. =20 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Fri May 21 23:32:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4M3WjEt011757 for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4M3WjQC011756 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 2004 23:32:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: DavidB7818@aol.com Message-ID: <1d3.21a2c71d.2de023d5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:32:37 EDT Subject: [forens] First U.S. DNA conviction - revisited To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5024 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Tommie Lee Andrews, the first person in the United States to be convicted on DNA evidence recently requested that the evidence be retested with STR technology to prove his claim of innocence for two sexual assault cases. The original RFLP testing was performed by Lifecodes. The results of the new testing, done by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Tallahassee Crime Laboratory, were presented to the court on Thursday. Guess what? It's still him. Dave Baer http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-locandrews21052104may21,1 ,3778207.story?coll=orl-news-headlines-orange --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by DavidB7818@aol.com] From forens-owner Sun May 23 15:13:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4NJDVIB002816 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 15:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4NJDVW1002815 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 2004 15:13:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [66.61.75.76] X-Originating-Email: [shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com] X-Sender: shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com From: "shaun wheeler" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] mace question Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:15:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 19:13:26.0612 (UTC) FILETIME=[065F3140:01C440FA] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Jenny: Ran across this article a while back. http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/oc-als.html Shaun ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:34 AM Subject: [forens] mace question > I working on a case involving a homicide victim who was *possibly* sprayed > with some type of mace (it seems more likely that mace was not used). > There are no visible stains on the shirt that suggest the use of mace. > Since there are no visible stains I'm thinking there is nothing else for > me to do, but I'm wondering if the collective is aware of any other way to > confirm the absence or presence of mace? Is there anything else I should > do? > > Jenny Smith, Criminalist III > Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime Lab > 1510 East Elm Street Jefferson City, MO 65101 > ph: 573-526-6134 ex 282 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by smithj@mshp.state.mo.us] > [EndPost by "shaun wheeler" ] From forens-owner Mon May 24 16:49:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4OKn1pG027955 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4OKn1R5027954 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:49:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) To: Forens-l (E-mail) Message-Id: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Stauffer?= Subject: [forens] Restoration of Decomposed Fingerprints Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:48:56 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII;format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, Is there any literature or written procedure used to restore decomposed fingerprints when the hands have been conserved frozen for about 2 years (prior to that, they were slightly decomposed). I am afraid that when they thaw the skin would become very brittle and it would be almost impossible to handle the fingers without losing the fingerprints. Thanks for any input, Sincerely Yours, Eric Stauffer -------------------------------------- Eric Stauffer, MS, F-ABC, CFEI Senior Forensic Scientist MME Forensic Services 1039 Industrial Court Suwanee, GA 30024 USA Office + 1 (678) 730 2000 Cell + 1 (404) 663 3611 Fax + 1 (678) 482 9677 Email arson@mac.com Web http://www.mmelab.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Stauffer?= ] From forens-owner Mon May 24 17:25:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4OLPIoq029235 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4OLPIOw029234 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 2004 17:25:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:24:34 -0700 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: , Subject: Re: [forens] Restoration of Decomposed Fingerprints Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4OLPIoq029236 Eric, I am not sure about the state of decomposition as you describe it. It the material is somewhat mummified, we will soak the fingers in a solution containing a capful of Downy fabric softener, 2 tbsp. salt mixed in a pint of water. The fingers are immersed in the solution tips up for a couple of days depending on the degree of dessication. Once the fingers plump up, you can carefully remove the outer dermis by peeling, then use acetone and methanol to dehydrate the ridge bearing surface, ink and roll the prints. You may have to inject Sirchie Tissue Builder to puff the finger pads up. For waterlogged fingers, we have had some luck placing the fingers or hands palm down on warm cement. It somehow draws the moisture out and toughens the epidermis so that the fingertips can be inked and rolled. Hope this assists you and Good Luck! Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> arson@mac.com 5/24/2004 1:48:56 PM >>> Dear List, Is there any literature or written procedure used to restore decomposed fingerprints when the hands have been conserved frozen for about 2 years (prior to that, they were slightly decomposed). I am afraid that when they thaw the skin would become very brittle and it would be almost impossible to handle the fingers without losing the fingerprints. Thanks for any input, Sincerely Yours, Eric Stauffer -------------------------------------- Eric Stauffer, MS, F-ABC, CFEI Senior Forensic Scientist MME Forensic Services 1039 Industrial Court Suwanee, GA 30024 USA Office + 1 (678) 730 2000 Cell + 1 (404) 663 3611 Fax + 1 (678) 482 9677 Email arson@mac.com Web http://www.mmelab.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Stauffer?= ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] From forens-owner Mon May 24 21:21:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4P1LXU6004048 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4P1LXqL004047 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:21:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [forens] Restoration of Decomposed Fingerprints Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:22:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1C65F50A3B7645438D56254D361EBF01F23644@AHIEXCHSVR.ahi.armorholdings.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] Restoration of Decomposed Fingerprints Thread-Index: AcRB1fILSrtZDfOZSk6Aukfzc0+sTQAIAWdQ From: "Allen Miller" To: , X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i4P1LWts004042 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu When trying recover prints from mummified fingers from decomposed remains in north Florida we used scalding hot towels and let the fingers soak for about an hour. Although this did not fully recover the finger's form, it did allow the skin to become pliable. We then would use pink hand soap and a small gauge needle to inject under the skin. The pink hand soap was thick enough to stay where it was put. We then used black powder and tape to lift the prints. The tape was then put on acetate cards and marked on the reverse side. Had success for 20+ years doing this method. And it was inexpensive. Allen Miller FDLE retired -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Greg Laskowski Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:25 PM To: arson@mac.com; forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Restoration of Decomposed Fingerprints Eric, I am not sure about the state of decomposition as you describe it. It the material is somewhat mummified, we will soak the fingers in a solution containing a capful of Downy fabric softener, 2 tbsp. salt mixed in a pint of water. The fingers are immersed in the solution tips up for a couple of days depending on the degree of dessication. Once the fingers plump up, you can carefully remove the outer dermis by peeling, then use acetone and methanol to dehydrate the ridge bearing surface, ink and roll the prints. You may have to inject Sirchie Tissue Builder to puff the finger pads up. For waterlogged fingers, we have had some luck placing the fingers or hands palm down on warm cement. It somehow draws the moisture out and toughens the epidermis so that the fingertips can be inked and rolled. Hope this assists you and Good Luck! Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> arson@mac.com 5/24/2004 1:48:56 PM >>> Dear List, Is there any literature or written procedure used to restore decomposed fingerprints when the hands have been conserved frozen for about 2 years (prior to that, they were slightly decomposed). I am afraid that when they thaw the skin would become very brittle and it would be almost impossible to handle the fingers without losing the fingerprints. Thanks for any input, Sincerely Yours, Eric Stauffer -------------------------------------- Eric Stauffer, MS, F-ABC, CFEI Senior Forensic Scientist MME Forensic Services 1039 Industrial Court Suwanee, GA 30024 USA Office + 1 (678) 730 2000 Cell + 1 (404) 663 3611 Fax + 1 (678) 482 9677 Email arson@mac.com Web http://www.mmelab.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Stauffer?= ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] [EndPost by "Allen Miller" ] From forens-owner Mon May 24 21:22:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4P1Mnoj004148 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4P1MnDR004147 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 2004 21:22:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <026001c441f6$8abe3ce0$dc5f12d0@dwhause> From: "Dave Hause" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] Restoration of Decomposed Fingerprints Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:20:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu If there isn't a component of "I want to learn this technique" in this but you just want prints, you might check with the FBI lab - 18 years ago they were talking about this sort of thing when I went through as part of my forensic path fellowship. Dave Hause, dwhause@jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Éric Stauffer" Is there any literature or written procedure used to restore decomposed fingerprints when the hands have been conserved frozen for about 2 years (prior to that, they were slightly decomposed). [EndPost by "Dave Hause" ] From forens-owner Mon May 24 22:48:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4P2mZLi005732 for ; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4P2mZRO005731 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 2004 22:48:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <00c801c44202$c57edd10$0a00a8c0@ertc665583d75f> From: "Mike Wise" To: References: <001701c43953$c419f200$48d0a50c@ertc665583d75f> Subject: [forens] Expertise in Crime Scene Investigation ? Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:48:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Apparently Kobe Bryant's defense team has started their assault on the crime scene investigation. One issue being alleged by prosecution is that there is no such thing as an expert in crime scene investigation. Viewpoints? >From yahoo.com: DENVER, United States (AFP) - Kobe Bryant's lawyers are attacking the quality of the crime scene investigation that led to rape charges against him, as they bring a veteran of the OJ Simpson murder case onto their team. "Detectives (Dan) Loya and (Doug) Winters conducted a woeful crime scene investigation," defense lawyer Hal Haddon said in a motion filed with the court in Eagle, Colorado and made public on Monday. Bryant's lawyers want to present at his looming trial two crime scene investigation expert witnesses to press their argument, identified in court documents as Larry Ragle and Beth Seeman. Ragle is a former sheriff's forensics expert who testified at Simpson's 1995 double-murder trial that the Los Angeles police investigation was sloppy, and violated proper evidence collection practices. Simpson's criminal trial ended in his acquittal. The second witness the defense hopes to use, Seeman, is identified in Haddon's motion as a longtime law enforcement investigator in Aspen, a Colorado ski hamlet. Steps investigators should have taken, according to the defense, include collection of the chair on which the sex act took place and close inspection of the carpet beneath it. They also include the collection of materials in waste baskets and a thorough investigation of the hotel bathroom where Bryant's alleged victim composed herself, before leaving the athlete's hotel room. Winters, the lead detective on the case, testified at Bryant's preliminary hearing in October that detectives did none of these things. But Eagle County prosecutors are hoping to bar both Ragle and Seeman's testimony, arguing that it would be irrelevant. Prosecutors also question whether crime scene investigation is a field where one can truly be termed an expert. If Bryant's lawyers be able to introduce the testimony of Ragle at trial, that would bring to three the total of Simpson defense veterans involved in the Los Angeles Lakers star's high-profile case. Bryant faces a possible life sentence in prison if convicted of raping a 19-year-old woman at a luxury Colorado resort where she worked on June 30 last year. Bryant, who is married and has a young daughter, admitted to having consensual sex but has pleaded innocent to rape. Bryant, 25, is due to appear in court for another pre-trial hearing on Thursday. [EndPost by "Mike Wise" ] From forens-owner Tue May 25 12:19:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4PGJdNw019371 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4PGJdvH019370 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 2004 12:19:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Sensitivity: X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.9 November 16, 2001 Subject: [forens] OUIL followup To: Message-ID: From: Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:19:16 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on FSUNOTES1/FSU(Release 6.0.2CF1|June 9, 2003) at 05/25/2004 12:19:58 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Thanks to everyone who reponded to my question of the OUIL. The comments were very informative, and I've communicated them to my student. I think she will make wiser choices in the future :) Regards, Mary [EndPost by Mary_Bacon@ferris.edu] From forens-owner Wed May 26 16:44:47 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4QKilpp013611 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4QKilDE013610 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:44:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040526204413.28465.qmail@web51609.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:44:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony Romano Subject: [forens] Forensic Advisors International (FAI) Website To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Colleagues: I would like to inform you of a new forensic website. Its Forensic Advisors International (FAI) and the url is http://www.fainet.org. The website explains the assistance provided by ICITAP, which includes institutional development, training of law enforcement personnel at all levels, donation of equipment and enhancement of forensic capabilities and providing forensic services to ICITAP program countries. Jobs for senior forensic advisors will be posted when they become available. The jobs are an opportunity to help developing laboratories as well as an opportunity to see & experience different cultures & geography. Finally the equipment donation program is explained and explains how your organization can use it as a tax writeoff. Equipment that is taken for granted in the US would be a welcome addition to many of the developing laboratories. The equipment is needed and it should be functional or easily repaired. I urge all of you to visit this site and visit it often to keep abreast of these international opportunities. Thanks. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Anthony Romano ] From forens-owner Wed May 26 22:56:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4R2uO47017324 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4R2uOm2017323 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 2004 22:56:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: EarlNMeyer@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 22:56:18 EDT Subject: [forens] Visualizing blood stains on jeans To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6025 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Does anyone have suggestions to enhance the visualization of blood stains on dark blue jeans? E. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by EarlNMeyer@aol.com] From forens-owner Thu May 27 00:22:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4R4Mcom018808 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 00:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4R4Mcq3018807 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 00:22:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <001401c443a2$2fe7cd60$5f37b1c8@Micro1> From: "Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia" To: References: Subject: [forens] Visualizing blood stains on jeans Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 01:22:11 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2739.300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Try to use Adler test, or luminol. Prof. Dr. Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia Forensic Examiner and Forensic Analyst Crime Scene and Forensic Entomology Expert Full Professor of Criminalistics at the Police Academy Health Security Engeneer Lawyer Caixa Postal, 179 15030-200 São José do Rio Preto, SP - Brasil http://www.pericias-forenses.com.br peritus@e24x7.com.br j_peritus@hotmail.com (MSN) [EndPost by "Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia" ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 05:22:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4R9M0JI021066 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 05:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4R9M0rg021065 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 05:22:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: FORENSIC022@aol.com Message-ID: <97.48865f80.2de70d2d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 05:21:49 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Visualizing blood stains on jeans To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 910 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Try an als at 415 nm. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by FORENSIC022@aol.com] From forens-owner Thu May 27 11:57:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RFvpnO026764 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RFvp15026763 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 11:57:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <8A8F2B3AD27F454695C6129172BD2E4C02BF830B@dps-sphqasmail1.ps.state.me.us> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" Subject: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:56:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu List, Does anyone have experience analyzing dental floss in rape kits? We are trying to decide whether or not to include them in ours. Thanks. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 "There is no such thing as a bad day when there is a door knob on the inside." --- Former Vietnam prisoner-of-war, Paul E. Galanti [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 12:23:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RGN08T027488 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RGN0Fp027487 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 12:23:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Lisa Hudson Organization: Total LegalNurse Consultants To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:22:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040527162254.BLIA11991.lakermmtao10.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hi Gretchen, I recently attended a SANE (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners) training program taught by the Tulsa, Oklahoma Police Department. Kathy Bell, RN is the nation's leading SANE Program Developer and past president of the International Association of Forensic Nurses. She taught that the use of dental floss was an appropriate technique in evidence collection at the time of the SANE exam. Hope this helps. Lisa Hudson From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" Date: 2004/05/27 Thu AM 11:56:43 EDT To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" Subject: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits List, Does anyone have experience analyzing dental floss in rape kits? We are trying to decide whether or not to include them in ours. Thanks. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 "There is no such thing as a bad day when there is a door knob on the inside." --- Former Vietnam prisoner-of-war, Paul E. Galanti [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] Lisa Hudson, RN, BSN 1616 S. State Street Edmond, Oklahoma 73013 PH: (405)414-7005 FAX: (405)720-1884 email: LisaLegalNurse@cox.net This e-mail transmission and any attachments contain confidential information belonging to the sender, which is legally privileged. The information is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) or entity addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any copying, disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail and/or attachment is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify Lisa Hudson at lisalegalnurse@cox.net. [EndPost by Lisa Hudson ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 13:30:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RHUkTe028555 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RHUk4t028554 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 13:30:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:30:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits From: Keith Inman To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040527162254.BLIA11991.lakermmtao10.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2004 17:29:08.0663 (UTC) FILETIME=[1DFEF470:01C44410] Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu On 5/27/04 9:22 AM, "Lisa Hudson" wrote: > Hi Gretchen, > I recently attended a SANE (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners) training program > taught by the Tulsa, Oklahoma Police Department. Kathy Bell, RN is the > nation's leading SANE Program Developer and past president of the > International Association of Forensic Nurses. She taught that the use of > dental floss was an appropriate technique in evidence collection at the time > of the SANE exam. Hope this helps. Lisa Hudson > From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" > Date: 2004/05/27 Thu AM 11:56:43 EDT > To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" > Subject: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits > OK, I'll bite (sorry, couldn't resist). What evidence is collected with dental floss? Keith Inman [EndPost by Keith Inman ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 14:20:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RIKiYv029637 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RIKioI029636 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:20:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Lisa Hudson Organization: Total LegalNurse Consultants To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:20:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040527182036.VEN14877.lakermmtao01.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu :) Pubic hair, and other interesting kinds of debris...hmmmmmmmmmm From: Keith Inman Date: 2004/05/27 Thu PM 01:30:37 EDT To: Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits On 5/27/04 9:22 AM, "Lisa Hudson" wrote: > Hi Gretchen, > I recently attended a SANE (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners) training program > taught by the Tulsa, Oklahoma Police Department. Kathy Bell, RN is the > nation's leading SANE Program Developer and past president of the > International Association of Forensic Nurses. She taught that the use of > dental floss was an appropriate technique in evidence collection at the time > of the SANE exam. Hope this helps. Lisa Hudson > From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" > Date: 2004/05/27 Thu AM 11:56:43 EDT > To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" > Subject: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits > OK, I'll bite (sorry, couldn't resist). What evidence is collected with dental floss? Keith Inman [EndPost by Keith Inman ] Lisa Hudson, RN, BSN 1616 S. State Street Edmond, Oklahoma 73013 PH: (405)414-7005 FAX: (405)720-1884 email: LisaLegalNurse@cox.net This e-mail transmission and any attachments contain confidential information belonging to the sender, which is legally privileged. The information is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) or entity addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any copying, disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail and/or attachment is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify Lisa Hudson at lisalegalnurse@cox.net. [EndPost by Lisa Hudson ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 14:27:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RIR58C029967 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RIR5m7029966 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:27:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <8A8F2B3AD27F454695C6129172BD2E4C02BF830C@dps-sphqasmail1.ps.state.me.us> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:25:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The dental floss is collected in cases of an oral sexual assault. The proponents have found that the dental floss provides good sperm evidence, even in cases where the victim eats, drinks, brushes teeth, etc. after the assault. We had heard that a number of labs (here in the northeast at least) had to quit using the floss due to health concerns for the victim. The logic behind that move is that if the victim cuts his / her mouth while flossing, any infection or disease from the suspect could be transmitted through the cut. Gretchen -----Original Message----- From: Keith Inman [mailto:kinman@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 1:31 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits On 5/27/04 9:22 AM, "Lisa Hudson" wrote: > Hi Gretchen, > I recently attended a SANE (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners) training program > taught by the Tulsa, Oklahoma Police Department. Kathy Bell, RN is the > nation's leading SANE Program Developer and past president of the > International Association of Forensic Nurses. She taught that the use of > dental floss was an appropriate technique in evidence collection at the time > of the SANE exam. Hope this helps. Lisa Hudson > From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" > Date: 2004/05/27 Thu AM 11:56:43 EDT > To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" > Subject: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits > OK, I'll bite (sorry, couldn't resist). What evidence is collected with dental floss? Keith Inman [EndPost by Keith Inman ] [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 14:31:43 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RIVhDv000353 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RIVhQv000352 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:31:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:31:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits From: Keith Inman To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040527182036.VEN14877.lakermmtao01.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Mime-version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2004 18:30:05.0191 (UTC) FILETIME=[A174D970:01C44418] Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu On 5/27/04 11:20 AM, "Lisa Hudson" wrote: > :) Pubic hair, and other interesting kinds of debris...hmmmmmmmmmm Snip... >> > > What evidence is collected with dental floss? > > Keith Inman > How do you collect a hair with dental floss? Keith [EndPost by Keith Inman ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 14:33:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RIXMxk000607 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RIXMXZ000606 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 14:33:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <525A14A8-B00C-11D8-A060-003065498CDA@earthlink.net> From: Norah Rudin Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:33:17 -0700 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII;format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I have heard anecdotally that some have had success collecting sperm that has gotten caught in the teeth, even if the individual has rinsed, maybe even brushed (but presumably not flossed). Norah Rudin Norah Rudin, Ph.D. Forensic DNA Consultant norah@forensicdna.com http://www.forensicdna.com http://www.forensicdna.com/Bookstore/index.html ----------------------------------------------- Nature photos: http://www.norahrudin.com ----------------------------------------------- On May 27, 2004, at 10:30 AM, Keith Inman wrote: > On 5/27/04 9:22 AM, "Lisa Hudson" wrote: > >> Hi Gretchen, >> I recently attended a SANE (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners) training >> program >> taught by the Tulsa, Oklahoma Police Department. Kathy Bell, RN is >> the >> nation's leading SANE Program Developer and past president of the >> International Association of Forensic Nurses. She taught that the >> use of >> dental floss was an appropriate technique in evidence collection at >> the time >> of the SANE exam. Hope this helps. Lisa Hudson >> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" >> Date: 2004/05/27 Thu AM 11:56:43 EDT >> To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" >> Subject: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits >> > OK, I'll bite (sorry, couldn't resist). > > What evidence is collected with dental floss? > > Keith Inman > > > [EndPost by Keith Inman ] > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by Norah Rudin ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 15:41:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RJfwEZ002511 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RJfvgl002510 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 15:41:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Lisa Hudson Organization: Total LegalNurse Consultants To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:41:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040527194150.BTJU12343.lakermmtao11.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu very carefully...the SANE nurse is trained in techniques in collection of evidence and...we did discuss the chance of a tear in the gum with the risk of infection, but most of the victims are placed on prophylactic antibiotics for possible STD unless there is a contraindication or refusal of the victim. From: Keith Inman Date: 2004/05/27 Thu PM 02:31:34 EDT To: Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits On 5/27/04 11:20 AM, "Lisa Hudson" wrote: > :) Pubic hair, and other interesting kinds of debris...hmmmmmmmmmm Snip... >> > > What evidence is collected with dental floss? > > Keith Inman > How do you collect a hair with dental floss? Keith [EndPost by Keith Inman ] Lisa Hudson, RN, BSN 1616 S. State Street Edmond, Oklahoma 73013 PH: (405)414-7005 FAX: (405)720-1884 email: LisaLegalNurse@cox.net This e-mail transmission and any attachments contain confidential information belonging to the sender, which is legally privileged. The information is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) or entity addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any copying, disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail and/or attachment is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify Lisa Hudson at lisalegalnurse@cox.net. [EndPost by Lisa Hudson ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 16:14:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RKEGuJ003411 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RKEG6U003410 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 16:14:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8501BACC14@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Ammen, Alice" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: [forens] UV-VIS-NIR Microspectrophotometers Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:14:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear listmembers, Has anyone made an actual, hands-on comparison of UV-Vis-NIR microspectrophotometers recently? Are there any other manufacturers I should be aware of besides Craic and SpectrAlliance? Alice Ammen Montana Forensic Science Division 2679 Palmer Street Missoula, MT 59808 Phone: (406) 329-1154 Fax: (406) 549-1067 Email: aammen@state.mt.us [EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 18:31:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RMVibC006369 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RMVihn006368 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 18:31:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:34:19 +1000 From: Morris Odell Subject: RE: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits In-reply-to: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E775C1BAB@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A40D@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Organization: Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Unfortunately this forensic game is full of anecdotal reports of variable reliability. Trying to recover sperm from the mouth an appreciable time after it was deposited is a very difficult business. It would be interesting to know whether flossing has any real advantage over a mouthwash. Mouthwashing with 10-20 ml of sterile water or saline and collecting the result is certainly easier and safer than flossing and wouldn't miss any areas that are not reached by the floss. It's probably impossible to check this experimentally (the mind boggles at a possible experimental design, ethics committee submission, recruitment of subjects and inevitable conference presentation & publication. At least nobody would forget you!). I would be very surprised if the extrinsic infection risk is significant, but in subjects with old rheumatic heart disease or with prosthetic valves, flossing might put them at risk of endocarditis. This is especially so if they have not flossed before or have poor oral hygiene. There are also methodological problems with flossing. Do you let an inexperienced patient floss themselves or do you do it for them dentist style? As a non dentist I wouldn't be confident in flossing someone else's teeth properly. What about risks to the examiner from bacterial spray? The mouth is a dirty place and flossing is not a sterile technique. Dr Morris Odell Snr Forensic Physician Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Norah Rudin > Sent: Friday, 28 May 2004 4:33 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits > > > I have heard anecdotally that some have had success collecting sperm > that has gotten caught in the teeth, even if the individual > has rinsed, > maybe even brushed (but presumably not flossed). > > Norah Rudin > Norah Rudin, Ph.D. > Forensic DNA Consultant > norah@forensicdna.com > http://www.forensicdna.com > http://www.forensicdna.com/Bookstore/index.htm> l > > ----------------------------------------------- > Nature > photos: http://www.norahrudin.com > ----------------------------------------------- > > On May 27, 2004, at 10:30 AM, Keith Inman wrote: > > > On 5/27/04 9:22 AM, "Lisa Hudson" wrote: > > > >> Hi Gretchen, > >> I recently attended a SANE (Sexual Assault Nurse > Examiners) training > >> program > >> taught by the Tulsa, Oklahoma Police Department. Kathy > Bell, RN is > >> the > >> nation's leading SANE Program Developer and past president of the > >> International Association of Forensic Nurses. She taught that the > >> use of > >> dental floss was an appropriate technique in evidence > collection at > >> the time > >> of the SANE exam. Hope this helps. Lisa Hudson > >> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" > >> Date: 2004/05/27 Thu AM 11:56:43 EDT > >> To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" > >> Subject: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits > >> > > OK, I'll bite (sorry, couldn't resist). > > > > What evidence is collected with dental floss? > > > > Keith Inman > > > > > > [EndPost by Keith Inman ] > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > [EndPost by Norah Rudin ] > * * * CONFIDENTIAL * * * The information in this message and in any attachments may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not read, forward, disclose, or use in any way the information this message or any attachment contains. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete or destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by Morris Odell ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 19:12:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4RNCmb5007299 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4RNCmg9007298 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 19:12:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Lisa Hudson Organization: Total LegalNurse Consultants To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: RE: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:12:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040527231242.FJKE24548.lakermmtao12.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu As always, we have a great conversation with great minds ongoing and you bring up good points... >From the point of the nurse examiner, the SANE Nurse is already dealing with possibility of contamination from biohazards as the entire procedure places her/him at risk, as does most nursing procedures...the use of protective attire is a part of the procedure and is a critical thinking exercise in light of the psycho social issues at hand with the victim and the provision of protection of the examiner. Interestingly, I did not ask during the conference as to "how" to floss, and since I am not a practicing SANE nurse, I did not participate in the clinical part of the training where the nurse would learn the procedure. I will, however, email Kathy and ask these questions. As you may or may not know, forensic nursing is a fairly new nursing specialty, and we are learning from forums such as this every day as to best practices. The research you speak of would be problematic, but is not impossible, as most SANE programs are associated with major hospitals and would have access to approving the research model...it would be interesting to see the data. The SANE nurse is in constant communication with the physician that supports the program as Medical Director (at least at this program through the Tulsa Police Department) and those decisions in relation to risk for any victim to floss or not to floss would be an interdisciplinary decision made between the SANE nurse and the physician. This decision would be a case by case decision dependent upon the assessment at the time of the exam. I will have to defer to the experts as to whether rinsing the mouth would interfere with the integrity of sperm or any debris left behind...When you are dealing with an oral assault, there are several types of evidence that could be found in the mouth, teeth, gums, etc (depending on the force used during the assault)...and the risk of the victim swallowing or spitting out something that may be the one piece of heralding evidence is something to consider. Another consideration is that the victim may not have survived the assault and rinsing may not be a viable option. From: Morris Odell Date: 2004/05/27 Thu PM 06:34:19 EDT To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Unfortunately this forensic game is full of anecdotal reports of variable reliability. Trying to recover sperm from the mouth an appreciable time after it was deposited is a very difficult business. It would be interesting to know whether flossing has any real advantage over a mouthwash. Mouthwashing with 10-20 ml of sterile water or saline and collecting the result is certainly easier and safer than flossing and wouldn't miss any areas that are not reached by the floss. It's probably impossible to check this experimentally (the mind boggles at a possible experimental design, ethics committee submission, recruitment of subjects and inevitable conference presentation & publication. At least nobody would forget you!). I would be very surprised if the extrinsic infection risk is significant, but in subjects with old rheumatic heart disease or with prosthetic valves, flossing might put them at risk of endocarditis. This is especially so if they have not flossed before or have poor oral hygiene. There are also methodological problems with flossing. Do you let an inexperienced patient floss themselves or do you do it for them dentist style? As a non dentist I wouldn't be confident in flossing someone else's teeth properly. What about risks to the examiner from bacterial spray? The mouth is a dirty place and flossing is not a sterile technique. Dr Morris Odell Snr Forensic Physician Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Norah Rudin > Sent: Friday, 28 May 2004 4:33 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits > > > I have heard anecdotally that some have had success collecting sperm > that has gotten caught in the teeth, even if the individual > has rinsed, > maybe even brushed (but presumably not flossed). > > Norah Rudin > Norah Rudin, Ph.D. > Forensic DNA Consultant > norah@forensicdna.com > http://www.forensicdna.com > http://www.forensicdna.com/Bookstore/index.htm> l > > ----------------------------------------------- > Nature > photos: http://www.norahrudin.com > ----------------------------------------------- > > On May 27, 2004, at 10:30 AM, Keith Inman wrote: > > > On 5/27/04 9:22 AM, "Lisa Hudson" wrote: > > > >> Hi Gretchen, > >> I recently attended a SANE (Sexual Assault Nurse > Examiners) training > >> program > >> taught by the Tulsa, Oklahoma Police Department. Kathy > Bell, RN is > >> the > >> nation's leading SANE Program Developer and past president of the > >> International Association of Forensic Nurses. She taught that the > >> use of > >> dental floss was an appropriate technique in evidence > collection at > >> the time > >> of the SANE exam. Hope this helps. Lisa Hudson > >> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" > >> Date: 2004/05/27 Thu AM 11:56:43 EDT > >> To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" > >> Subject: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits > >> > > OK, I'll bite (sorry, couldn't resist). > > > > What evidence is collected with dental floss? > > > > Keith Inman > > > > > > [EndPost by Keith Inman ] > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > [EndPost by Norah Rudin ] > * * * CONFIDENTIAL * * * The information in this message and in any attachments may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not read, forward, disclose, or use in any way the information this message or any attachment contains. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete or destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by Morris Odell ] Lisa Hudson, RN, BSN 1616 S. State Street Edmond, Oklahoma 73013 PH: (405)414-7005 FAX: (405)720-1884 email: LisaLegalNurse@cox.net This e-mail transmission and any attachments contain confidential information belonging to the sender, which is legally privileged. The information is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) or entity addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any copying, disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail and/or attachment is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify Lisa Hudson at lisalegalnurse@cox.net. [EndPost by Lisa Hudson ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 20:32:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4S0Wb2u008416 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4S0Wblo008415 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 20:32:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <017e01c4444b$18a94940$6f5f12d0@dwhause> From: "Dave Hause" To: References: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A40D@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:31:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Actually, the experimental design would seem to be trivial, the only difficulty being recruitment of experimental subjects. It seems unlikely an ethics committee would permit naive subjects, so it would probably require investigators/co-investigators who are practitioners of the relevant sexual activities, with an eye to remaining within limits of local laws. If I were really interested, I'd go back to last September and look up the reference from the following post we had on this list: "In the J. For. Sci. vol. 23 page 233 (W.F. Enos, J.C. Beyer) mentions "We have been successful in identifying spermatozoa in oral smears up to 6 h after the attack, despite brushing teeth, using mouthwash, and drinking various fluids." Elizabeth Selya" Dave Hause, dwhause@jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morris Odell" It's probably impossible to check this experimentally (the mind boggles at a possible experimental design, ethics committee submission, recruitment of subjects and inevitable conference presentation & publication. [EndPost by "Dave Hause" ] From forens-owner Thu May 27 23:48:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4S3mun8010958 for ; Thu, 27 May 2004 23:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4S3muYB010957 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 2004 23:48:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Eljnsjr@aol.com Message-ID: <1da.22b6ab25.2de810a0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:48:48 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5110 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In a message dated 5/27/2004 5:38:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, dwhause@jobe.net writes: Actually, the experimental design would seem to be trivial, the only difficulty being recruitment of experimental subjects. It seems unlikely an ethics committee would permit naive subjects, so it would probably require investigators/co-investigators who are practitioners of the relevant sexual activities, with an eye to remaining within limits of local laws. If I were really interested, I'd go back to last September and look up the reference from the following post we had on this list: "In the J. For. Sci. vol. 23 page 233 (W.F. Enos, J.C. Beyer) mentions "We have been successful in identifying spermatozoa in oral smears up to 6 h after the attack, despite brushing teeth, using mouthwash, and drinking various fluids." Elizabeth Selya" Dave Hause, dwhause@jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morris Odell" It's probably impossible to check this experimentally (the mind boggles at a possible experimental design, ethics committee submission, recruitment of subjects and inevitable conference presentation & publication. [EndPost by "Dave Hause" ] Dear List, The experimental design of Willot would be applicable to this problem. G. M. Willott and M. A. Crosse, "The Detection of Spermatozoa in the Mouth," J. Forensic Sci. Soc., 26 (1985) 125-8. They found that the collection of liquid saliva samples was more effective than oral swabs for collecting sperm from the mouth. From 61 cases with alleged fellatio where both saliva samples and oral swabs were collected, sperm were found in saliva samples 22 times while sperm were found only 10 times on oral swabs. This experimental design can be expanded to include a mouth wash or flossing and the results can be compared against the normal swabbing from the same victim. If the samples are collected in a reasonable order then no evidence is lost and valuable information can be found. Ed Jones Ventura Sheriff's Crime Lab --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Eljnsjr@aol.com] From forens-owner Fri May 28 06:41:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4SAfvga016315 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 06:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4SAfvUQ016314 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 2004 06:41:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Sender: cbas53@pop-hub.strath.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0A6B9379-A296-11D8-B6B8-000A959EEC38@esc.unil.ch> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:52:05 +0100 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Niamh Nic Daeid Subject: [forens] 14th Interpol Symposium - toolmarks X-Strath-Information: Contact for more information X-Strath-Scan: clean X-Strath-UBECheck: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hi Christophe. Hope you are well. We have done some research into toolmarks on cattle identification tags which was quite interesting. this was as a result of the foot and mouth outbreak in the UK. A summary is below best wishes to all, Niamh Investigation in toolmarks associated with the illegal removal and replacement of cattle ear tags. Niamh Nic Daeid, Jim Thorpe, Ian Pritchard, Forensic Science Unit, University of Strathclyde. In the wake of the BSE crisis in the late 1980's, the UK Government introduced tough legislations governing cattle identification. These required all cattle to display ear tags containing a unique number that gave that cow an individual identity within a national database. To get around strict guidelines governing the movement of diseased animals it is understood that some farmers are deliberately switching tags between animals. Up until now, no major work had been carried out to see if marks found on suspect tags were due to normal wear and tear of the tag or due to attempts to remove the tag from a cow. The aim of this investigation was to create damage databases of tags that had been subjected to wear and tear, tags that had been assembled incorrectly and tags that had been separated and then reassembled. A batch of abattoir tags were first examined, followed by sample tags that were assembled in different, incorrect ways and finally sample tags that were separated using different methods before being reassembled. It was found that the marks found on the abattoir tags differed greatly from the marks found on the separated tags. However some of the marks found on the separated tags were similar to marks found on the tags that had been assembled incorrectly. Dr. Niamh Nic Daeid Senior Lecturer Forensic Science Unit University of Strathclyde Royal College 204 George St Glasgow G1 1WX Scotland Phone INT +141 548 4700 Fax INT + 141 548 2532 [EndPost by Niamh Nic Daeid ] From forens-owner Fri May 28 09:59:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4SDxV9L019393 for ; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4SDxVQ2019392 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 2004 09:59:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Beta Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 06:59:00 -0700 From: "Elizabeth Selya" To: , Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Why is my name attached to this e-mail? I never published anything in the J. For. Sci. vol. 23 page 233. Elizabeth Selya Senior Criminalist CA DOJ-Santa Rosa Lab >>> dwhause@jobe.net 5/27/2004 5:31:13 PM >>> Actually, the experimental design would seem to be trivial, the only difficulty being recruitment of experimental subjects. It seems unlikely an ethics committee would permit naive subjects, so it would probably require investigators/co-investigators who are practitioners of the relevant sexual activities, with an eye to remaining within limits of local laws. If I were really interested, I'd go back to last September and look up the reference from the following post we had on this list: "In the J. For. Sci. vol. 23 page 233 (W.F. Enos, J.C. Beyer) mentions "We have been successful in identifying spermatozoa in oral smears up to 6 h after the attack, despite brushing teeth, using mouthwash, and drinking various fluids." Elizabeth Selya" Dave Hause, dwhause@jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morris Odell" It's probably impossible to check this experimentally (the mind boggles at a possible experimental design, ethics committee submission, recruitment of subjects and inevitable conference presentation & publication. [EndPost by "Dave Hause" ] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication. [EndPost by "Elizabeth Selya" ] From forens-owner Sat May 29 01:08:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i4T58sb0000748 for ; Sat, 29 May 2004 01:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i4T58sLT000747 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 2004 01:08:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <026701c4453a$da01fe80$6f5f12d0@dwhause> From: "Dave Hause" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] Dental floss in rape kits Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 00:07:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Because you quoted the citation. Dave Hause, dwhause@jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Selya" Why is my name attached to this e-mail? I never published anything in the J. For. Sci. vol. 23 page 233. Elizabeth Selya [EndPost by "Dave Hause" ] From forens-owner Mon May 31 23:13:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i513Doik029417 for ; Mon, 31 May 2004 23:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i513DoKu029416 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 31 May 2004 23:13:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: DavidB7818@aol.com Message-ID: <191.29b26ca1.2ded4e67@aol.com> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:13:43 EDT Subject: [forens] Joint Forensic Science Meeting - Orlando To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 910 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The latest information for the joint forensic science association meeting (SAFS, MAAFS, MAFS and CSFS) is now available at _www.southernforensic.org/jointmeetingA.htm_ (http://www.southernforensic.org/jointmeetingA.htm) David Baer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by DavidB7818@aol.com]