From forens-owner Mon Mar 1 06:59:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i21Bx2pq014442 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:59:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i21Bx2tx014441 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:59:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <2450B11BD34FE64F8403F942063E65E5010A52@usacil3.forscom.army.mil> From: "Henson, Lynn" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Verification Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:05:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hey Bob, NO WAY! To photograph the optical cross sectioning of a single fiber or hair and repeat the same cross sectioning along every portion of its length at the kind of resolution you need to see its appearance at 3 different magnifications and then to repeat this for bright field, pol, and fluorescent lighting while rotating the stage is not a realistic way to document and compare microscopic examinations. Larry Peterson at GBI has a photograph of a single human hair that stretches over 25 feet (bright field at one single optical cross section level). Repeat the above for a number of standard fibers to assure that you see any variation. And then start the questioned fibers. Some folks do photograph the "match" to show to a jury in court. This match is not something an experienced examiner would use to peer review the exam. In my humble opinion (yeah, I know, humble my foot!), trying to do any microscopic comparison by photography is ludicrous. Want to know how I really feel? ;-) Lynn Henson US Army Crime Laboratory Trace Evidence Division 4553 N 2ND Street Forest Park, GA 30297-5122 404-469-7265 DSN 797-7265 Lynn.Henson@usacil.army.mil -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 6:20 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Verification Hi Lynn, I understand your point, but couldn't the same end be served by having the original analyst/microscopist photograph what is seen in the microscopic view, and then having a colleague later review the photos as part of ordinary peer review? "Traditionally," this would be cost and time prohibitive using film photography; but in this age of digital photography, even if multiple views are required to document each item this is fast, easy and virtually cost free to do (once the initial investment of digital photomicroscopy equipment is made). Then the images can be stored in your LIMS (or even on a CD) for easy retrieval and review by appropriate staff at any later time. What if you don't have another examiner (i.e., you have only one person qualified to do a particular kind of exam), and so peer review must be done by a colleague in another lab? Photography would be the only practical way I can think of to accomplish the review in that case. In a multi-lab system, the reviewer could be many miles away and still pull up the same files to review. In a single lab situation, the photos could be sent to a reviewer in another lab in a cooperative agreement. Otherwise, you'd have to pack up the evidence and ship it to another lab for reexamination, and that's not very practical (especially if there was only enough sample present for one exam). Is there any reason why photographic documentation of microscopic comparisons can't be reviewed as a substitute for live review? I understand photos are only 2D, but multiple shots could be taken at different depths of field if necessary to show differences or similarities not visible in a single 2D shot. So what's the problem with using photos instead of live review? Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Henson, Lynn > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:08 AM > To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' > Subject: RE: [forens] Verification > > Hey Bob, > The short answer is that you have no traditional analytical data to review > from the visual comparison of two fibers or hairs. Visual examination is > the most discriminating step in any traditional trace evidence and > therefore, realistically, the only way to review the examiner's basis for > the conclusion written in the report is to look at the evidence again. > Happily, the most time consuming step of actually locating and preserving > the evidence only has to be done by the original examiner. > Have a good one, > Lynn > Lynn Henson > US Army Crime Laboratory > Trace Evidence Division > 4553 N 2ND Street > Forest Park, GA 30297-5122 > 404-469-7265 DSN 797-7265 > Lynn.Henson@usacil.army.mil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Robert Parsons > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:19 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: [forens] Verification > > Just playing devil's advocate for a moment (I don't do trace work), but > why is that a "needed safeguard"? Why is it necessary for a second > analyst to re-examine the actual evidence, instead of reviewing the > analytical data preserved in the file? What will looking at the raw > evidence tell the reviewer/verifier that looking at the instrumental > data and/or microscopy images produced by the analysis of that evidence > will not? After all, it is the analytical data (UV, MS, IR, NMR > spectra; solubility characteristics; GC retention time profiles, > photomicrographs, etc.) that is compared to the same data from > standards, is it not? Is the review by reexamination done to verify > that the sample prep was done properly (and so ensure the analytical > data in the file is the right data), or for some other reason? What if > the second examiner doesn't use the same sample from the evidence in > his/her comparison as the one the first examiner used (assuming the > evidence is not homogeneous)? Would the review still be valid? > > As Azriel said, I doubt many labs have sufficient personnel to repeat > the analysis for every piece of trace evidence. What's wrong with doing > a 100% technical review of the files, combined with regular proficiency > testing (which can include periodic, rather than routine, reanalysis)? > Is 100% reanalysis really providing an additional margin of quality, or > is this overkill that is wasteful of resources? > > Just stirring the pot (I have my own opinion, but like I said, I'm not a > trace analyst). > > Bob Parsons, F-ABC > Forensic Chemist > Indian River Crime Laboratory > Ft. Pierce, FL > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > > Of Azriel Gorski > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:59 AM > > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > Subject: Re: [forens] Verification > > > > Dave, > > > > A lot will depend on what you mean by "examination of the evidence". > Most > > laboratories don't have a caseload or the budgets to do a case twice > by two > > separate scientists. > > > > I will not try to speak for all labs or all trace examiners, but IMHO > a > > second examiner should actually see the evidence. Then critical data > and > > comparisons, should be looked at/reviewed by a second examiner without > > benefit of knowing the opinion of the first. Then they should meet to > > "compare notes." This is doable and a needed safeguard. > > > > Shalom from Jerusalem, > > Azriel Gorski > > > > At 18:13 19/02/2004, you wrote: > > > > >Are there any agencies out there that require verification of results > > >prior to releasing trace evidence reports? > > >Verification is used here to mean examination of the evidence by a > second > > >scientist, not just a review of the case file. > > > > > >Thanks. > > > > > >Dave Laycock > > >Idaho state Police Forensics > > > > > >[EndPost by "Laycock, Dave" ] > > > > ******************************************************************** > > Azriel Gorski > > Forensic Science > > > > Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre > > The Hebrew University of Jerusalem > > > > http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ > > > > "Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge > > that shapes lifetimes" - Richard Bach > > > > If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up > > with the rain. - Steven Wright > > > > Man must exist in a state of balance between risk > > and safety. Pure risk leads to self-destruction. Pure > > safety leads to stagnation. In between lies survival > > and progress. - Unknown > > ******************************************************************** > > [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] > [EndPost by "Henson, Lynn" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] [EndPost by "Henson, Lynn" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 4 12:47:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i24Hl1DF009731 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:47:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i24Hl1Z4009730 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:47:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <404766CD.E20C66E2@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:56:37 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] An unusual poisoning Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, One of my friends has asked me this unusual question and I don't know the reply. Can someone enlighten please. Thanks. The question is: 1. What happens when a person ingests M-seal? This is the compound which is used to seal leaking roofs and ceilings. 2. A related question is "What happens to a person when he ingests superglue". How much would kill him? Please let me know. One would (almost instinctively) think that his pylorus would "seal", and kill him. I would imagine one can do experiments on animals, like rats etc to know the answer. But I am not sure, if anyone has done that. Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 5 07:49:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i25CnA7o024417 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:49:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i25CnABT024416 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:49:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <3EB1FF6BBCDC3149A11D3C034D922693071DF335@atf-hq-excha.ad.msnet.atf.gov> From: Robert.Thompson@atf.gov To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Pattern Recognition Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:48:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dave, Check with the IAI for tests for "Pattern Blindness" Robert M. Thompson Firearms and Toolmark Examiner ATF Forensic Science Laboratory-Washington 6000 Ammendale Road Ammendale, MD 20705 Desk: (240) 264-3846 FAX: (240) 264-1498 Cell: (301) 980-5447 Robert.Thompson@atf.gov -----Original Message----- From: Laycock, Dave [mailto:dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 6:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Pattern Recognition Does anyone know of references relating to the ability of people to recognize and associate patterns? For example, in forensics it would be an ability needed by latent print examiners. I tried a web search and everything I got seemed to relate to computer algorithms. Dave Laycock Idaho State Police Forensics [EndPost by "Laycock, Dave" ] [EndPost by Robert.Thompson@atf.gov] From forens-owner Fri Mar 5 08:15:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i25DF3jR024861 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:15:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i25DF3fo024860 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:15:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: LamarM@aol.com Message-ID: <76.38a3025f.2d79d74c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:14:52 EST Subject: Re: [forens] Pattern Recognition To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5016 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In a message dated 3/5/2004 7:54:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, Robert.Thompson@atf.gov writes: Does anyone know of references relating to the ability of people to recognize and associate patterns? Dave - Questioned document examiners have long used the form blindness test in the classic text "Questioned Documents" by Osborn. The test was devised many, many years ago but is still useful. Good Luck, Lamar Miller Forensic Document Examiner, Retired Hendersonville, NC --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by LamarM@aol.com] From forens-owner Fri Mar 5 11:40:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i25Gem8I027814 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:40:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i25GelQG027813 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:40:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Subject: [forens] microtome Q To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: "Jenny Smith" Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:40:42 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on GHQPROD/MSHP400(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 03/05/2004 10:40:41 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Those of you who are happy with your microtomes, what sort of embedding media are you using.?? We have a Leica microtome and use the "Epofix" epoxy/resin with less-than-happy results. Jenny Smith, Criminalist III Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime Lab 1510 East Elm Street Jefferson City, MO 65101 ph: 573-526-6134 ex 282 [EndPost by "Jenny Smith" ] From forens-owner Sun Mar 7 21:17:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i282HgC8027639 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:17:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i282HgwQ027638 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:17:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: RoeRabel@aol.com Message-ID: <1db.1bceb22e.2d7d31bc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:17:32 EST Subject: [forens] Underwater crime scene information To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 147 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I am currently working on a research project regarding the benefits of performing complete crime scene analysis (including photography) of fully submerged bodies. I was wondering what some of your standard operating procedures are when discovery of a body underwater is made, specifically in instances of possible homicide and only bodies that are fully submerged not floating on the water's surface. Is it typical that a search and recovery team will bring the body to the surface prior to any evidence gathering? In cases where visibility is not fully limited are photos taken prior to body removal? Is any trace evidence gathered? Any information, protocols, cases, or examples would be much appreciated. You can respond to me off-line at RoeRabel@aol.com Thanks Betsy Roe UMASS-Boston RoeRabel@aol.com [EndPost by RoeRabel@aol.com] From forens-owner Mon Mar 8 01:38:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i286cEaN000857 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i286cEHx000856 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:38:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040308081326.00a2b070@mail.netvision.net.il> X-Sender: azrielg@mail.netvision.net.il Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 08:26:03 +0200 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Azriel Gorski Subject: Re: [forens] microtome Q Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Level: X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Microtome thoughts: I am no microtome guru. As I microscopist, I have "had the pleasure" of working with microtomes from time to time. I think the microtomes are leading in the statistic books of our series of interactions. To the point that I greatly respect someone who can make good sections. Some points that hopefully will help. - The success of obtaining good sections is "arty." - Type of microtome, embedding medium and more important preparation of the sample for sectioning will be dictated by the nature of sample. - I have obtained better sections and saved a lot of energy by farming it out. I found my salvation in the pathology department of the national medical school. They section hour after hour, and for about $5.00 a sample, they will give get back to me 5 to 10 slides, nicely sectioned, and even stained if that is needed. I hope that helps. Shalom from Jerusalem, Azriel Gorski At 10:40 05/03/04 -0600, you wrote: >Those of you who are happy with your microtomes, what sort of embedding >media are you using.?? > >We have a Leica microtome and use the "Epofix" epoxy/resin with >less-than-happy results. > >Jenny Smith, Criminalist III >Missouri State Highway Patrol Crime Lab >1510 East Elm Street Jefferson City, MO 65101 >ph: 573-526-6134 ex 282 > > > > >[EndPost by "Jenny Smith" ] ******************************************************************** Azriel Gorski Forensic Science Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre The Hebrew University of Jerusalem http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ "Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge that shapes lifetimes" - Richard Bach If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain. - Steven Wright Man must exist in a state of balance between risk and safety. Pure risk leads to self-destruction. Pure safety leads to stagnation. In between lies survival and progress. - Unknown ******************************************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Azriel Gorski ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 8 19:07:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2907Nfi014155 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:07:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2907NKQ014154 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:07:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "John McCafferty" To: Subject: [forens] Some questions about a stabbing Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:31:34 +1300 Message-ID: <000801c4056a$7871c250$9f60d00a@vdl.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I am involved in a stabbing homicide where the fatal wound passed through the skin on the left side of the chest in the anterior axillary line about 7 cm lateral to the nipple. The wound in the skin when stretched closed had a length of 1.6 cm and was vertically orientated. The wound passed through intercostal tissue in which there was a cut 2.0 cm in length. The wound then passed through the left lung, through the pericardium and then through the lateral wall of the left ventricle where there was a wound 1.5 cm in length. There were no markings on the opposite wall of the left ventricle. The probable weapon was a knife with a blade 9.5 cm in length and 2.5 cm in width at the mid part and maintaining that to the hilt and narrowing to a point at tip. Deceased is 18, tall and lean. Two issues have arisen 1. Is the skin wound is too small to allow a knife of this size to pass through? Stab wounds are acknowledged in some texts as usually being less than the width of the blade but can anybody point me in the direction of quantifying this ie % shrinkage possible? 2. Is the length of the blade too short to reach the left ventricle? The surface projection of the heart puts the apex just medial and below the left nipple (9 cm from the mid line in an average adult Grays Anatomy) and it seems less distance than that to the skin of the chest. I know there are multiple variables involved but would appreciate any opinion. Thank you. John John A. McCafferty Pathologist Valley Diagnostic Laboratories Lower Hutt New Zealand Ph +64 4 570 3600 Fax +64 4 570 3601 john.mccafferty@xtra.co.nz jam@vdl.co.nz [EndPost by "John McCafferty" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 8 21:20:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i292KvJs015555 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:20:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i292KvZU015554 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:20:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <031f01c4057c$e3ec1500$8d5f12d0@dwhause> From: "Dave Hause" To: References: <000801c4056a$7871c250$9f60d00a@vdl.local> Subject: Re: [forens] Some questions about a stabbing Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:18:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I can't give a reference on #1 but suggest that, absent passage through solid tissue such as cartilage or rib where the full stab wound is in the solid tissue, this knife isn't ruled out, especially if it is dull enough to stretch rather than cut. On #2, I suggest that it may well not be too short, given both the mobilty of the heart and the elasticity of the chest wall of an 18 year old. Dave Hause, dwhause@jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "John McCafferty" Two issues have arisen 1. Is the skin wound is too small to allow a knife of this size to pass through? 2. Is the length of the blade too short to reach the left ventricle? The surface projection of the heart puts the apex just medial and below the left nipple (9 cm from the mid line in an average adult Grays Anatomy) and it seems less distance than that to the skin of the chest. [EndPost by "Dave Hause" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 9 13:02:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i29I2KCQ026651 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:02:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i29I2KRA026650 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:02:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <404DB279.611A5A20@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:33:05 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] Email of Bernard Knight Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, Can someone give me the EMail ID/s of retired professor Bernard Knight? Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 10 10:07:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2AF72P8018283 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:07:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2AF72xY018282 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:07:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <6E62F001D7D3D611B70500C09F0CF832263793@DUIISVR1> From: Flora Kan To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: [forens] Forensic training facility and instructors Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:21:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Greetings!! Data Unlimited International, Inc. (DUII) is in need of forensic training facilities and instructors in the City of Austin Texas. We will greatly appreciate your contacting us at 240-631-7933, though the preferred communication method is your email to fkan@duii.com no later than 19, 2004. Regards, Flora Kan President [EndPost by Flora Kan ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 10 12:58:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2AHwDgb021587 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:58:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2AHwDaj021586 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:58:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: From: Greg Kiddon To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: [forens] tadalafil Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:58:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 17:58:21.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[469CC990:01C406C9] Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu List Anyone have any luck with tadalafil (Cialis)/sildenafil (Viagra)/ vardenafil (Levitra) on a GCMSD. I have a couple of SPON-TANE ES tabs (blue, hexagonal) that may contain one or more of the compounds per an FDA advisory. Thanks Greg Kiddon Ohio BCI&I 740-845-2487 gkiddon@ag.state.oh.us [EndPost by Greg Kiddon ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 11 09:55:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BEt1rT005152 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:55:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2BEt187005151 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:55:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:54:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2BEt0h6005146 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: DNA Position Available Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:08:42 -0500 From: "Greenspan, Allen" To: "Forens-L (E-mail)" CRIMINALIST II (DNA Specialist) $43,942 - $72,262/year Prepares and analyzes chemical and evidentiary samples in criminal identification and investigations in the Crime Laboratory of the Broward Sheriff's Office located in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. DNA Unit employees perform specialized technical and scientific work in the application of advanced laboratory techniques in DNA analysis and are responsible for the formal reporting of and testifying to the findings of such analysis. Bachelor's degree in the natural or physical sciences is required. Master's degree is preferred. Qualified applicants must have college credit in genetics, biochemistry, statistics, organic chemistry and molecular biology (molecular genetics, recombinant DNA technology). Advanced course work in molecular biology, genetics, or a related field is preferred. College transcripts are required at time of application. In addition, two (2) years of work experience in DNA analysis is required. DNA fingerprinting, PCR related DNA testing experience and/or experience with P&E 310, 3100 or 377 is preferred. HOW TO APPLY Applications may be obtained on our website: www.sheriff.org. Completed applications must be received in the Human Resources Bureau by 5:30 p.m., March 26, 2004. Allen B. Greenspan Criminalist III Broward Co. Sheriff's Office Crime Laboratory 201 SE 6th St. North Wing Rm 1799 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 Phone: 954.831.5816 Fax: 954.831.6413 [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 11 10:56:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BFuGRX007150 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:56:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2BFuGn1007149 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:56:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) To: Forens-l (E-mail) Message-Id: <9E3532F6-7374-11D8-9CAA-000A95DBA89C@mac.com> From: Eric Stauffer Subject: [forens] Cannabis in Urine Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:56:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII;format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List Member, Does anybody know how long after exposure is it be possible to detect cannabis metabolites in urine? and is there a published research that can be referenced? Thanks, Have a great day, Regards, Eric Stauffer -------------------------------------- Eric Stauffer, MS, D-ABC, CFEI Senior Forensic Scientist MME Forensic Services 1039 Industrial Court Suwanee, GA 30024 USA Office + 1 (678) 730 2000 Cell + 1 (404) 663 3611 Fax + 1 (678) 482 9677 Email estauffer@mmelab.com Web http://www.mmelab.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by Eric Stauffer ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 11 13:04:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BI4m9K010493 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2BI4mNc010492 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:04:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lynnl@pop-server.satx.rr.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6E62F001D7D3D611B70500C09F0CF832263793@DUIISVR1> References: <6E62F001D7D3D611B70500C09F0CF832263793@DUIISVR1> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:04:44 -0600 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Lynn Lasswell Subject: Re: [forens] Forensic training facility and instructors X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Ms Kan, I would be interested i what kind of forensic training jobs you have. I am a retired FBI agent/chemist with 19 years experience in the FBI laboratory. Lynn Lasswell San Antonio, TX > >Data Unlimited International, Inc. (DUII) is in need of forensic training >facilities and instructors in the City of Austin Texas. > >We will greatly appreciate your contacting us at 240-631-7933, though the >preferred communication method is your email to fkan@duii.com no later than >19, 2004. > >Regards, > >Flora Kan >President [EndPost by Lynn Lasswell ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 11 16:56:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BLu1ui015537 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:56:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2BLu15i015536 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:56:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Gerrit Volckeryck" To: "ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group" , "Forensic-Science@Yahoogroups. Com" Subject: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:56:05 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear all, In a recent case, trace amounts of drugs (Cocaine) were found in a safe by vacuumcleaning it. The occupants of the house explained that that must have come from an amount of money that once had been put in the safe. They had read something about a high percentage of dollar bills that are contaminated with cocaine. So, secondary transfer should explain the trace amounts of cocaine in the safe. Does anyone know of any studies which have been done to examine this kind of hypothesis ? Thanks, Gerrit Volckeryck Federale Politie Gerechtelijke Dienst Laboratorium voor Technische en Wetenschappelijke Politie Simon Bolivarlaan 30 1000 Brussel Belgium tel. +32 2 208 48 48 fax. +32 2 208 48 50 [EndPost by "Gerrit Volckeryck" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 11 17:20:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BMKiOU016211 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:20:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2BMKiR2016210 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:20:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040311222044.13703.qmail@web20609.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:20:43 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Thompson Subject: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I would like to know about option/resources to get a doctorate in Forensic by DISTANCE LEARNING/WEB BASED as this may be the only option rather than full time. (a) Which accredited universities may offer a PHD in forensic science? I am told many but would prefer an accredited university and the one that is recognized. (b) I am aware of PHD in Criminal Justice by universities such as Walden but are they useful and is this univ recognized in the community? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 11 18:41:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BNfAEF018021 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:41:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2BNfAlf018020 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:41:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: FORENSIC022@aol.com Message-ID: <193.26cfd428.2d82530f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:41:03 EST Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5106 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu You might consider contacting the United States Drug Enforcement Agency with your question. http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ Brad Brown Forensic Scientist II New York State Police Forensic Investigation Center 1220 Washington Ave. Building 30 Albany, NY 12226 518 485-8368 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by FORENSIC022@aol.com] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 04:49:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2C9nrnX024311 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:49:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2C9nrk9024310 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 04:49:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Veerle Berx" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:51:30 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20040311222044.13703.qmail@web20609.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hi, I work as a researcher at the National Institute of Criminalistics and Criminology in Brussels, Belgium but at the same time I'm working on a PhD thesis in Forensic Science at the ESC at the University of Lausanne. The advantage there is that - as a foreign PhD. student - you do not have to follow courses at the university itself if you already have a thorough background in science. In my case, I had to enter a proposal for a research project and all the information about my scientific background. And they recommended me to follow some courses, relevant for my thesis in my home country. I go from time to time to the university to discuss my research. Greetings, Veerle Berx NICC Department of Justice Belgium -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: donderdag 11 maart 2004 23:21 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback I would like to know about option/resources to get a doctorate in Forensic by DISTANCE LEARNING/WEB BASED as this may be the only option rather than full time. (a) Which accredited universities may offer a PHD in forensic science? I am told many but would prefer an accredited university and the one that is recognized. (b) I am aware of PHD in Criminal Justice by universities such as Walden but are they useful and is this univ recognized in the community? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Veerle Berx" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 11:01:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2CG1uiV029644 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:01:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2CG1uGW029643 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:01:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:01:10 -0800 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: , , Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2CG1uiV029645 Gerrit, As someone who has washed and analyzed a lot of currency collected from those trafficking in drug, I can say that evidence of cocaine at trace levels was routinely detected. This often resulted in property seizures from those individuals. Vacuum sweepings from airplanes and vehicles thought responsible for trafficking in cocaine or marijuana also yielded evidence of cocaine and/or marijuana. Thus, it is possible that a person having currency in large denominations may have secondary or incidental transfer of illicit drug material. We have long since abandoned the processes of washing currency for illicit drugs because of its prevalence outside of criminal activity. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> gerrit.volckeryck@planetinternet.be 3/11/2004 1:56:05 PM >>> Dear all, In a recent case, trace amounts of drugs (Cocaine) were found in a safe by vacuumcleaning it. The occupants of the house explained that that must have come from an amount of money that once had been put in the safe. They had read something about a high percentage of dollar bills that are contaminated with cocaine. So, secondary transfer should explain the trace amounts of cocaine in the safe. Does anyone know of any studies which have been done to examine this kind of hypothesis ? Thanks, Gerrit Volckeryck Federale Politie Gerechtelijke Dienst Laboratorium voor Technische en Wetenschappelijke Politie Simon Bolivarlaan 30 1000 Brussel Belgium tel. +32 2 208 48 48 fax. +32 2 208 48 50 [EndPost by "Gerrit Volckeryck" ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 11:26:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2CGQGBl000443 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:26:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2CGQGUx000442 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:26:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f In-Reply-To: To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cc: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu, forensic-science@yahoogroups.com, gerrit.volckeryck@planetinternet.be, owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.2CF1 June 9, 2003 Message-ID: From: RBost@ucok.edu Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:23:13 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Mercury/UCO(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 03/12/2004 10:23:09 AM, Serialize complete at 03/12/2004 10:23:09 AM X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Greg, my question comes as an "outsider" (I do toxicology, not trace analysis). We've long known about finding cocaine on money. But is there enough on the money that the presence of the money in a safe would leave behind enough cocaine in the safe to be later detectable? Robert O. Bost, Ph.D., DABFT Director, MS in Forensic Sciences Program Department of Chemistry University of Central Oklahoma Edmond, Oklahoma 73034 (405) 974-5519 "Greg Laskowski" Sent by: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu 03/12/2004 10:01 AM Please respond to forens To: , , cc: Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? Gerrit, As someone who has washed and analyzed a lot of currency collected from those trafficking in drug, I can say that evidence of cocaine at trace levels was routinely detected. This often resulted in property seizures from those individuals. Vacuum sweepings from airplanes and vehicles thought responsible for trafficking in cocaine or marijuana also yielded evidence of cocaine and/or marijuana. Thus, it is possible that a person having currency in large denominations may have secondary or incidental transfer of illicit drug material. We have long since abandoned the processes of washing currency for illicit drugs because of its prevalence outside of criminal activity. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> gerrit.volckeryck@planetinternet.be 3/11/2004 1:56:05 PM >>> Dear all, In a recent case, trace amounts of drugs (Cocaine) were found in a safe by vacuumcleaning it. The occupants of the house explained that that must have come from an amount of money that once had been put in the safe. They had read something about a high percentage of dollar bills that are contaminated with cocaine. So, secondary transfer should explain the trace amounts of cocaine in the safe. Does anyone know of any studies which have been done to examine this kind of hypothesis ? Thanks, Gerrit Volckeryck Federale Politie Gerechtelijke Dienst Laboratorium voor Technische en Wetenschappelijke Politie Simon Bolivarlaan 30 1000 Brussel Belgium tel. +32 2 208 48 48 fax. +32 2 208 48 50 [EndPost by "Gerrit Volckeryck" ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by RBost@ucok.edu] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 11:51:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2CGppG8001314 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:51:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2CGpp4q001313 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:51:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:50:57 -0800 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2CGppG8001315 Robert, That is a very good question. What is the likelihood of a detectable level of secondary transfer from currency contaminated with cocaine residue? I am sure that it is dependant on the amount of cocaine residue on the currency and the amount of currency contaminated with cocaine. Also the type of receiving surface in the safe. Is it possible that static electricity could be inherent in the safe's interior surface material could cause the entrapment and retention of cocaine residue. Friction caused by sliding the currency surface against the interior surface of the safe may be sufficient to affect transfer of the material. This is an example of Locard's exchange principle. Of course, I am not saying that the owners of the safe did not store cocaine illicitly. I think the amount of cocaine detected in the vacuum sweepings may be more indicative of illicit storage of cocaine versus incidental secondary transfer with contaminated currency. If the police went through so much trouble to vacuum the interior of the safe, they must have other evidence or suspicions that the owners of the safe were trafficking in illegal drugs. The vacuum sweepings of the safe alone, in my mind, are insufficient for prosecution, at least here in California under today's standards of proof. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> RBost@ucok.edu 3/12/2004 8:23:13 AM >>> Greg, my question comes as an "outsider" (I do toxicology, not trace analysis). We've long known about finding cocaine on money. But is there enough on the money that the presence of the money in a safe would leave behind enough cocaine in the safe to be later detectable? Robert O. Bost, Ph.D., DABFT Director, MS in Forensic Sciences Program Department of Chemistry University of Central Oklahoma Edmond, Oklahoma 73034 (405) 974-5519 "Greg Laskowski" Sent by: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu 03/12/2004 10:01 AM Please respond to forens To: , , cc: Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? Gerrit, As someone who has washed and analyzed a lot of currency collected from those trafficking in drug, I can say that evidence of cocaine at trace levels was routinely detected. This often resulted in property seizures from those individuals. Vacuum sweepings from airplanes and vehicles thought responsible for trafficking in cocaine or marijuana also yielded evidence of cocaine and/or marijuana. Thus, it is possible that a person having currency in large denominations may have secondary or incidental transfer of illicit drug material. We have long since abandoned the processes of washing currency for illicit drugs because of its prevalence outside of criminal activity. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> gerrit.volckeryck@planetinternet.be 3/11/2004 1:56:05 PM >>> Dear all, In a recent case, trace amounts of drugs (Cocaine) were found in a safe by vacuumcleaning it. The occupants of the house explained that that must have come from an amount of money that once had been put in the safe. They had read something about a high percentage of dollar bills that are contaminated with cocaine. So, secondary transfer should explain the trace amounts of cocaine in the safe. Does anyone know of any studies which have been done to examine this kind of hypothesis ? Thanks, Gerrit Volckeryck Federale Politie Gerechtelijke Dienst Laboratorium voor Technische en Wetenschappelijke Politie Simon Bolivarlaan 30 1000 Brussel Belgium tel. +32 2 208 48 48 fax. +32 2 208 48 50 [EndPost by "Gerrit Volckeryck" ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by RBost@ucok.edu] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 12:13:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2CHDkWg002045 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:13:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2CHDkBv002044 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:13:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA85A0513E@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Long, Julie" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: [forens] upcoming meeting Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:13:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Join us in Missoula Montana, April 19-23, for the Spring NWAFS meeting. There are workshops for law enforcement as well as lab folks so pass the word to any of them that may be interested. Thanks. <> <> <> Julie Long Montana State Crime Lab Quality Manager 406-329-1132 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword application/msword application/msword --- [EndPost by "Long, Julie" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 14:14:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2CJEqB4003826 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2CJEqv8003825 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:14:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: WMorris400@aol.com Message-ID: <66.3da3c697.2d83661c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:14:36 EST Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I do not have cite handy, but one study looked at bank tellers and found no detectable amount of cocaine. However, money in general circulation will have cocaine residue generally considered to have been transferred by contact with other currency having cocaine residue. One thing to remember is that some currency has been used to wrap cocaine and may have visible residue on it which will also transfer to other currency or containers holding other currency (primary or secondary transfer). Originally it was thought that all contaminated currency meant that the money came into contact with cocaine at time of sale. This has long been shown to be in error as others have mentioned by analysis of currency in general circulation. Wayne Morris Morris-Kopec Forensics, Inc. [EndPost by WMorris400@aol.com] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 21:35:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2D2ZmAI008815 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:35:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2D2Zmes008814 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:35:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2D2ZmR9008809 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:15:59 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Thompson Subject: Doctorate in Forensic Science: Options, Resources To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I would like to know what DISTANCE LEARNING/ WEB BASED options are there for Ph.D in forensic science? Which accredited univ offer it? How about PhD in Criminal Justice? What sort of career one can expect from it? Have you heard of universities such as Walden who offer this and is it recognised in the community? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 21:36:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2D2aPOR008855 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2D2aPYQ008854 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:36:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:36:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:29:20 -0500 From: Meredith Storms Subject: RE: [forens] Cannabis in Urine I have attached a few references in regards to the detection of cannabis metabolites in urine... 1) Urinary cannabinoid detection times after controlled oral administration of Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol to humans Gustafson RA, Levine B, Stout PR, Klette KL, George MP, Moolchan ET, Huestis MA; CLINICAL CHEMISTRY 49 (7): 1114-1124 JUL 2003 2) It has been suggested that the "detection window" depends on the length of exposure. For example, THCCOH levels may be present after 1-3 days for an occasinal user, while this metabolite may be present for a week or more for a chronic user. Tests are considered positive when the THCCOOH level is greater than 15ng/mL. http://www.varianinc.com/image/vimage/docs/products/chrom/apps/gcms66.pdf 3) The stability of cannabis metabolites has also been debated which can be referenced at https://www.jatox.com/abstracts/1996/may-june/204-salamone.htm. -Meredith Storms >===== Original Message From Eric Stauffer ===== >Dear List Member, > >Does anybody know how long after exposure is it be possible to detect >cannabis metabolites in urine? and is there a published research that >can be referenced? > >Thanks, > >Have a great day, > >Regards, > >Eric Stauffer > >-------------------------------------- >Eric Stauffer, MS, D-ABC, CFEI >Senior Forensic Scientist > >MME Forensic Services >1039 Industrial Court >Suwanee, GA 30024 >USA > >Office + 1 (678) 730 2000 >Cell + 1 (404) 663 3611 >Fax + 1 (678) 482 9677 >Email estauffer@mmelab.com > >Web http://www.mmelab.com > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched >--- >[EndPost by Eric Stauffer ] [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 12 22:56:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2D3uDdU010239 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:56:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2D3uDVI010238 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:56:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <014901c408af$1b683650$6500a8c0@davelaptop> From: "Dave Khey" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] forwarded message Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:56:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Mr. Thompson, Look into the programs at the University of Florida (www.forensicscience.ufl.edu) and Florida State University (www.criminology.fsu.edu) for more information. Both universities have a good name...FSU's crim department is one of the oldest in the nation and offer their degrees online...the University of Florida offers a myriad of online options and is (in my opinion) the flagship state school of Florida. I do not believe ANY schools offer a Ph.D level degree in forensic science online. However, FSU (and a few other schools here and there) offer an online Ph.D for crim justice (I believe the degree is specifically Criminology with concentration in procedural justice...but don't quote me on that. The person to talk to there is Brenda McCarthy). My apologies to the Seminole fans on the list. Hope this is helpful. Have a great weekend. Cheers, Dave Khey David Khey Graduate Assistant Center for Studies in Criminology and Law Department of Sociology Department of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Florida 201 Walker Hall PO Box 115950 Gainesville, FL 32611-5950 Tel: 352-392-1025 Fax: 352-392-5065 DKhey@ufl.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: [forens] forwarded message > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:15:59 -0800 (PST) > From: Robert Thompson > Subject: Doctorate in Forensic Science: Options, Resources > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > I would like to know what DISTANCE LEARNING/ WEB BASED > options are there for Ph.D in forensic science? > > Which accredited univ offer it? > > How about PhD in Criminal Justice? What sort of career > one can expect from it? Have you heard of universities > such as Walden who offer this and is it recognised in > the community? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > > [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] > [EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 19:15:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E0FgU0020797 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:15:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E0FgNR020796 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:15:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: , Subject: RE: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:20:16 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00ac01c4095a$2042eca0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040311222044.13703.qmail@web20609.mail.yahoo.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 00:15:41.0877 (UTC) FILETIME=[7C80C650:01C40959] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > I would like to know about option/resources to get a > doctorate in Forensic by DISTANCE LEARNING/WEB BASED > as this may be the only option rather than full time. There are no such programs that I know of. > (a) Which accredited universities may offer a PHD in > forensic science? I am told many but would prefer an > accredited university and the one that is recognized. There are none in the United States. There are many accredited universities offering MASTERS degrees in general forensic science, but none offering PhDs. However, there are accredited PhD programs available in specific forensic science specialties, such as toxicology, anthropology, psychology, etc., or in traditional non-forensic majors but with some emphasis or specialization in forensic science. I don't know of any accredited PhD science programs that are available entirely through distance learning. All the ones I know of offer only some of the coursework on line, and still require significant on-campus, in-person work. There are some Masters Degree programs available almost entirely on-line, but even they require periodic short periods of on-campus attendance. > (b) I am aware of PHD in Criminal Justice by > universities such as Walden but are they useful and is > this univ recognized in the community? No. Any degree in criminal justice is worthless for forensic science, because they have nothing to do with forensic science. Forensic science requires degrees in SCIENCE, not criminal justice. CJ degrees are for cops and attorneys, not for forensic scientists. For a list of schools offering forensic science degrees, see: http://www.aafs.org/default.asp?section_id=resources&page_id=colleges_an d_universities Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Robert Thompson > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:21 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback > > I would like to know about option/resources to get a > doctorate in Forensic by DISTANCE LEARNING/WEB BASED > as this may be the only option rather than full time. > (a) Which accredited universities may offer a PHD in > forensic science? I am told many but would prefer an > accredited university and the one that is recognized. > (b) I am aware of PHD in Criminal Justice by > universities such as Walden but are they useful and is > this univ recognized in the community? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 19:23:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E0NKYX021124 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:23:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E0NKsm021123 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:23:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Verification Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:27:54 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00ad01c4095b$312e2c40$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2450B11BD34FE64F8403F942063E65E5010A52@usacil3.forscom.army.mil> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 00:23:19.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D65C460:01C4095A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu It sounds like you're saying the only way to do a technical review is live, at the time of the original analysis. I see your reasoning, but then, how do you meet the ASCLD-LAB (not to mention SWG) requirement that the case file contain sufficient documentation of the analysis to demonstrate the technical basis for the analyst's conclusions, i.e., to allow another competent analyst to do a technical review based on the case file alone? If no amount of photodocumentation will support a technical review for hairs, fibers, and similar trace evidence, then how do you produce a reviewable case file that adequately documents the basis for the analyst's conclusions? I assume you were referring to hairs, fibers, and other such trace evidence, and I again see your point, but .I'll risk pointing out (hey, don't hurt me), that there ARE some micro comparisons that are routinely done via photography alone - shoeprints and tire tracks, for example. Since the original impressions/prints can't be physically transported to the lab, casts and photos are the only way to do the comparisons. Fingerprints are frequently compared using photos also. Proficiency tests for these kinds of examinations are also often administered using photos. Yes, Lynn tell us how you REALLY feel! ;-) Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Henson, Lynn > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:05 AM > To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' > Subject: RE: [forens] Verification > > Hey Bob, > NO WAY! To photograph the optical cross sectioning of a single fiber or > hair and repeat the same cross sectioning along every portion of its length > at the kind of resolution you need to see its appearance at 3 different > magnifications and then to repeat this for bright field, pol, and > fluorescent lighting while rotating the stage is not a realistic way to > document and compare microscopic examinations. Larry Peterson at GBI has a > photograph of a single human hair that stretches over 25 feet (bright field > at one single optical cross section level). Repeat the above for a number > of standard fibers to assure that you see any variation. And then start the > questioned fibers. Some folks do photograph the "match" to show to a jury > in court. This match is not something an experienced examiner would use to > peer review the exam. > > In my humble opinion (yeah, I know, humble my foot!), trying to do any > microscopic comparison by photography is ludicrous. Want to know how I > really feel? ;-) > > Lynn Henson > US Army Crime Laboratory > Trace Evidence Division > 4553 N 2ND Street > Forest Park, GA 30297-5122 > 404-469-7265 DSN 797-7265 > Lynn.Henson@usacil.army.mil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Robert Parsons > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 6:20 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: [forens] Verification > > Hi Lynn, > > I understand your point, but couldn't the same end be served by having > the original analyst/microscopist photograph what is seen in the > microscopic view, and then having a colleague later review the photos as > part of ordinary peer review? "Traditionally," this would be cost and > time prohibitive using film photography; but in this age of digital > photography, even if multiple views are required to document each item > this is fast, easy and virtually cost free to do (once the initial > investment of digital photomicroscopy equipment is made). Then the > images can be stored in your LIMS (or even on a CD) for easy retrieval > and review by appropriate staff at any later time. > > What if you don't have another examiner (i.e., you have only one person > qualified to do a particular kind of exam), and so peer review must be > done by a colleague in another lab? Photography would be the only > practical way I can think of to accomplish the review in that case. In > a multi-lab system, the reviewer could be many miles away and still pull > up the same files to review. In a single lab situation, the photos > could be sent to a reviewer in another lab in a cooperative agreement. > Otherwise, you'd have to pack up the evidence and ship it to another lab > for reexamination, and that's not very practical (especially if there > was only enough sample present for one exam). > > Is there any reason why photographic documentation of microscopic > comparisons can't be reviewed as a substitute for live review? I > understand photos are only 2D, but multiple shots could be taken at > different depths of field if necessary to show differences or > similarities not visible in a single 2D shot. So what's the problem > with using photos instead of live review? > > Bob Parsons, F-ABC > Forensic Chemist > Indian River Crime Laboratory > Ft. Pierce, FL > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > > Of Henson, Lynn > > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:08 AM > > To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' > > Subject: RE: [forens] Verification > > > > Hey Bob, > > The short answer is that you have no traditional analytical data to > review > > from the visual comparison of two fibers or hairs. Visual examination > is > > the most discriminating step in any traditional trace evidence and > > therefore, realistically, the only way to review the examiner's basis > for > > the conclusion written in the report is to look at the evidence again. > > Happily, the most time consuming step of actually locating and > preserving > > the evidence only has to be done by the original examiner. > > Have a good one, > > Lynn > > Lynn Henson > > US Army Crime Laboratory > > Trace Evidence Division > > 4553 N 2ND Street > > Forest Park, GA 30297-5122 > > 404-469-7265 DSN 797-7265 > > Lynn.Henson@usacil.army.mil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > > On Behalf Of Robert Parsons > > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:19 PM > > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > Subject: RE: [forens] Verification > > > > Just playing devil's advocate for a moment (I don't do trace work), > but > > why is that a "needed safeguard"? Why is it necessary for a second > > analyst to re-examine the actual evidence, instead of reviewing the > > analytical data preserved in the file? What will looking at the raw > > evidence tell the reviewer/verifier that looking at the instrumental > > data and/or microscopy images produced by the analysis of that > evidence > > will not? After all, it is the analytical data (UV, MS, IR, NMR > > spectra; solubility characteristics; GC retention time profiles, > > photomicrographs, etc.) that is compared to the same data from > > standards, is it not? Is the review by reexamination done to verify > > that the sample prep was done properly (and so ensure the analytical > > data in the file is the right data), or for some other reason? What > if > > the second examiner doesn't use the same sample from the evidence in > > his/her comparison as the one the first examiner used (assuming the > > evidence is not homogeneous)? Would the review still be valid? > > > > As Azriel said, I doubt many labs have sufficient personnel to repeat > > the analysis for every piece of trace evidence. What's wrong with > doing > > a 100% technical review of the files, combined with regular > proficiency > > testing (which can include periodic, rather than routine, reanalysis)? > > Is 100% reanalysis really providing an additional margin of quality, > or > > is this overkill that is wasteful of resources? > > > > Just stirring the pot (I have my own opinion, but like I said, I'm not > a > > trace analyst). > > > > Bob Parsons, F-ABC > > Forensic Chemist > > Indian River Crime Laboratory > > Ft. Pierce, FL > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > > > Of Azriel Gorski > > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:59 AM > > > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > > Subject: Re: [forens] Verification > > > > > > Dave, > > > > > > A lot will depend on what you mean by "examination of the evidence". > > Most > > > laboratories don't have a caseload or the budgets to do a case twice > > by two > > > separate scientists. > > > > > > I will not try to speak for all labs or all trace examiners, but > IMHO > > a > > > second examiner should actually see the evidence. Then critical data > > and > > > comparisons, should be looked at/reviewed by a second examiner > without > > > benefit of knowing the opinion of the first. Then they should meet > to > > > "compare notes." This is doable and a needed safeguard. > > > > > > Shalom from Jerusalem, > > > Azriel Gorski > > > > > > At 18:13 19/02/2004, you wrote: > > > > > > >Are there any agencies out there that require verification of > results > > > >prior to releasing trace evidence reports? > > > >Verification is used here to mean examination of the evidence by a > > second > > > >scientist, not just a review of the case file. > > > > > > > >Thanks. > > > > > > > >Dave Laycock > > > >Idaho state Police Forensics > > > > > > > >[EndPost by "Laycock, Dave" ] > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > Azriel Gorski > > > Forensic Science > > > > > > Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre > > > The Hebrew University of Jerusalem > > > > > > http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ > > > > > > "Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge > > > that shapes lifetimes" - Richard Bach > > > > > > If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up > > > with the rain. - Steven Wright > > > > > > Man must exist in a state of balance between risk > > > and safety. Pure risk leads to self-destruction. Pure > > > safety leads to stagnation. In between lies survival > > > and progress. - Unknown > > > ******************************************************************** > > > > [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] > > [EndPost by "Henson, Lynn" ] > > [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] > [EndPost by "Henson, Lynn" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 19:34:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E0YVf7021571 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:34:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E0YV4G021570 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:34:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Cannabis in Urine Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:39:06 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00ae01c4095c$c1838640$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9E3532F6-7374-11D8-9CAA-000A95DBA89C@mac.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 00:34:31.0339 (UTC) FILETIME=[1DB6FFB0:01C4095C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Eric, Karch's Drug Abuse Handbook (1998, p.192) cites Baselt & Cravey, "Disposition of Toxic Drugs and Chemicals in Man," 4th ed. (1995), indicating that 70% of a dose of THC is excreted in the urine (30%) and feces (40%) within 72 hours of ingestion, mostly as metabolites, principally carboxylic acids and glucuronides (only very small amounts of THC appear unchanged in urine). Terminal elimination half life is reported as approximately 1 day, but may be 3 to 13 days after last use in frequent users, owing to systemic accumulation over time. Clarke's Analysis of Drugs and Poisons, 3rd ed, reports similar data, noting that up to 25% of metabolites are excreted in the urine within 3 days, and up to 65% in the feces within 5 days (Volume 2, p. 743). Huestic & Cone reported urine half lives of up to 60 hours during a 14-day collection period. "Urinary excretion half-life of 11-nor-9-carboxy-delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol in humans." Ther Drug Monit. 1998 Oct;20(5):570-6. Numerous other sources echo these data with similar figures. However, many sources have reported cannabinoid metabolites remaining detectible in the urine for weeks or even months (2 to 3) after last use among heavy chronic users, owing to the lipophilic accumulation of cannabinoids in the various fatty organs and adipose tissues, along with enterohepatic recirculation. Detection duration in specific cases depends on dosage, route and frequency of use, and timing of collection. Also impacting the results are sample volume, sample container, sample storage time and conditions, and assay techniques and parameters (sensitivity, cut-off levels, etc.). Infrequent users are reported to have detectible urine metabolite levels generally in the range of several days (up to one week), while chronic frequent/heavy users have produced consistently detectible levels for well over a month (up to 45 days). For example, see Verebey, K., "Diagnostic Laboratory: Screening for Drugs of Abuse"; in: Lowinson, et al., "Substance Abuse: A Comprehensive Textbook," 2nd ed., 1992:425-426. There are many, many similar citations in the literature. At levels close to cut off limits, daily fluctuations can be seen above and below the cutoff, such that levels may not remain consistently below the cutoff for up to 75 days or more. A rather dated but thorough review appears in Clinical Chemistry Vol 34, No 3, 1988, pp 620-622. A search of the literature in Medline/PubMed or other literature search engine using the keywords "cannabis" or "marijuana" and "metabolite" and "urine" will provide multiple citations. See also this entry in ToxNet for a quick summary of relevant papers: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~CplHmI:2 Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Eric Stauffer > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:56 AM > To: Forens-l (E-mail) > Subject: [forens] Cannabis in Urine > > Dear List Member, > > Does anybody know how long after exposure is it be possible to detect > cannabis metabolites in urine? and is there a published research that > can be referenced? > > Thanks, > > Have a great day, > > Regards, > > Eric Stauffer > > -------------------------------------- > Eric Stauffer, MS, D-ABC, CFEI > Senior Forensic Scientist > > MME Forensic Services > 1039 Industrial Court > Suwanee, GA 30024 > USA > > Office + 1 (678) 730 2000 > Cell + 1 (404) 663 3611 > Fax + 1 (678) 482 9677 > Email estauffer@mmelab.com > > Web http://www.mmelab.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > [EndPost by Eric Stauffer ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 19:35:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E0ZKQw021709 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:35:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E0ZKnM021708 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:35:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] forwarded message Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:39:54 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00af01c4095c$de7f9180$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 00:35:19.0964 (UTC) FILETIME=[3AB295C0:01C4095C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu A PhD in criminal justice is useless in the forensic science profession. The profession of forensic science requires knowledge of science, not criminal justice. The only career I can think of directly applicable to a PhD in criminal justice is as a professor of criminal justice in a university teaching criminal justice. Of course, it could be indirectly useful to a variety of criminal justice related career fields such as law enforcement, corrections, and various other public service positions related to criminal justice policy and practice. Forensic science is not one of them, however. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Christopher J. Basten > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:36 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] forwarded message > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:15:59 -0800 (PST) > From: Robert Thompson > Subject: Doctorate in Forensic Science: Options, Resources > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > I would like to know what DISTANCE LEARNING/ WEB BASED > options are there for Ph.D in forensic science? > > Which accredited univ offer it? > > How about PhD in Criminal Justice? What sort of career > one can expect from it? Have you heard of universities > such as Walden who offer this and is it recognised in > the community? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > > [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 19:36:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E0aFol022042 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:36:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E0aFpV022041 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:36:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] An unusual poisoning Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:40:51 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00b001c4095d$001a2b20$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <404766CD.E20C66E2@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2004 00:36:16.0338 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C4C9320:01C4095C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cyanoacrylate has low general toxicity and is considered a mild eye and respiratory tract irritant. The hydroquinone carrier is somewhat more toxic. For the overall product, superglue has an LD50 in the grams/KG range (5 grams deposited directly into the stomachs of rats did not kill them in one study). According to manufacturers, ingestion is virtually impossible because it would immediately bond to the mouth tissues and so could not be swallowed in liquid form, and I believe this to be true. The cured product is reputedly non-toxic, so swallowing hardened glue has little risk. See: http://www.inchem.org/documents/cicads/cicads/cicad36.htm#1.0 http://www.holdtite.com/english/technical/prod/pds019.htm http://www.camd.lsu.edu/msds/q/quicktite.htm http://www.mightyap.com/msds/datafile/82190.pdf http://www.tradeproproducts.com/h_s_super_glue.htm http://www.consulting.xtek.net/downloads/Truloc%20Material%20Safety.PDF I couldn't find any references to "M-seal." What does the product contain? Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Professor Anil Aggrawal > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:27 PM > To: Forensic Newsgroup (main) > Subject: [forens] An unusual poisoning > > Dear List, > One of my friends has asked me this unusual question and I don't know > the reply. Can someone enlighten please. Thanks. > The question is: > > 1. What happens when a person ingests M-seal? This is the compound which > is used to seal leaking roofs and ceilings. > > 2. A related question is "What happens to a person when he ingests > superglue". How much would kill him? > > Please let me know. One would (almost instinctively) think that his > pylorus would "seal", and kill him. > > I would imagine one can do experiments on animals, like rats etc to know > the answer. But I am not sure, if anyone has done that. > > Thanks. > Sincerely > Professor Anil Aggrawal > Professor of Forensic Medicine > Maulana Azad Medical College > S-299 Greater Kailash-1 > New Delhi-110048 > INDIA > Phone: 26465460, 26413101 > Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com > Page me via ICQ #19727771 > Websites: > > 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites > http://www.geradts.com/~anil > 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html > 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html > 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page > http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html > 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 > 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html > 7. Forensic Careers > http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html > 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po > > *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I > tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being > called when the top doctors have failed!* > `\|||/ > (@@) > ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ > _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| > ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ > _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ > > > > [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 19:48:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E0m0Io022655 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:48:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E0m0gR022654 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:48:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040313163328.01ad2ff0@pop.avalon.net> X-Sender: pnoth@pop.avalon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:52:47 -0600 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Peter Nothnagle Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? In-Reply-To: <66.3da3c697.2d83661c@aol.com> References: <66.3da3c697.2d83661c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Concerning the finding traces of cocaine in places where it doesn't belong... Has anybody heard anything recently about the "cocaine mummies"? In about 1992, I think, a German investigator published the remarkable discovery of traces of cocaine and tobacco in ancient Egyptian mummies. This, despite the fact that the coca and tobacco plants are only native to the New World. It suggested that there could have been trade across the Atlantic Ocean, thousands of years before Columbus. I recently found an interesting letter on the subject to the journal "British Archaeology", which proposes that the investigator's testing could have yielded false positives (see http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba19/ba19lets.html ). I wonder if anybody on this list has heard of any experiments that have confirmed or refuted the "cocaine mummies"? -- Peter Nothnagle [EndPost by Peter Nothnagle ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 20:24:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E1OQpI023297 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:24:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E1OQgG023296 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:24:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:23:11 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <00ac01c4095a$2042eca0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> Thread-Index: AcQJWjVZKbFeznJuQzCwr+6hDdZ4EgABmZ8A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hi Bob, I agree with totally about the CJA degree. When I began studying, I thought "Oooh, criminology and CJA" sounds really interesting. Well it was interesting but I soon figured out that it wasn't going to be of much help to me as I had no intention of working in a court situation. No way! So then they added forensics to the degree and I'm pretty sure it's available online (I'm in Australia) but what's the point? As you say, how on earth can you do an entire forensics course online? What about CSI, what about blood stain etc, photography, or any other discipline. You can't do that online completely. You still have to do a certain amount of lab work or experiments etc. I have almost completed my degree in Criminology and CJA - but what's the point? I'm more interested in forensics which I've already finished. So I feel I'm plodding through CJA and Crim for nothing as I don't intend to use them. But I won't give up when I'm so close to finishing it all. Psychology is about the only thing I've found to be of use. As I'm extremely interested in profiling, I find psychology helpful in that area. But my real interest lies in forensics. But nobody explained this to me prior to returning to Uni - nobody told me that I wouldn't be doing forensics unless I went to a different Uni and even then, we weren't allowed to visit crime scenes, only attend autopsies. Like you say, there's no escaping it, you HAVE to spend time on campus and in laboratories etc even with a distance learning based programme. Anyway, that's the impression I have gained from looking around the Universities in Australia. Regards Lynn --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 20:39:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E1devd023717 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:39:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E1deBC023716 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:39:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <01a501c40965$296861b0$6500a8c0@davelaptop> From: "Dave Khey" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:39:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Lynn/Bob, There is a point to a CJ degree, of course...but, by all means... nothing that has to do with forensics will come out of the degree. The only advantage of this type of degree in a forensic setting is that I have learned the benefits of social science knowledge when applying them to public health/forensic research. But, then again...my degree is in Sociology with a concentration in Criminology...and my Ph.D. will be in Criminology, which is far fetched from a Criminal Justice degree...especially at the Ph.D. level. Now there are BIIIIIG differences between 1) Criminal Justice, 2) Criminology, and 3) the wide world of the Forensic Sciences. I guess the question to ask here is...what is the goal that you have in mind? Of course, a good place to look is the AAFS link that Bob has posted for the forensic sciences...but if you are interested in the courts, procedural justice, corrections, policy, criminal/civil law and torts...etc....check out the American Society of Criminology's site at www.asc41.com Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback > Hi Bob, I agree with totally about the CJA degree. When I began studying, I > thought "Oooh, criminology and CJA" sounds really interesting. Well it was > interesting but I soon figured out that it wasn't going to be of much help > to me as I had no intention of working in a court situation. No way! So > then they added forensics to the degree and I'm pretty sure it's available > online (I'm in Australia) but what's the point? As you say, how on earth > can you do an entire forensics course online? What about CSI, what about > blood stain etc, photography, or any other discipline. You can't do that > online completely. You still have to do a certain amount of lab work or > experiments etc. > > I have almost completed my degree in Criminology and CJA - but what's the > point? I'm more interested in forensics which I've already finished. So I > feel I'm plodding through CJA and Crim for nothing as I don't intend to use > them. But I won't give up when I'm so close to finishing it all. Psychology > is about the only thing I've found to be of use. As I'm extremely > interested in profiling, I find psychology helpful in that area. But my > real interest lies in forensics. But nobody explained this to me prior to > returning to Uni - nobody told me that I wouldn't be doing forensics unless > I went to a different Uni and even then, we weren't allowed to visit crime > scenes, only attend autopsies. > > Like you say, there's no escaping it, you HAVE to spend time on campus and > in laboratories etc even with a distance learning based programme. Anyway, > that's the impression I have gained from looking around the Universities in > Australia. > > Regards > > Lynn > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > [EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 22:48:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E3mSfE024918 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:48:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E3mSOT024917 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:48:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:45:32 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <01a501c40965$296861b0$6500a8c0@davelaptop> Thread-Index: AcQJZV4zYSqi9GQVTgmPe0onaG081gADIaxw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hi Dave, Of course there's a point to a CJ degree - I just didn't realise that it wasn't what I was looking for. I mean, management, research, all sorts of boring topics. Having said this, I don't regret doing it nor do I regret doing criminology. My degree will be Ba Criminology/CJA/Forensics. As part of this degree we have to do a placement or internship of 364 or something ridiculous, hours, in the area that we wish to work in. Well, as I wanted to work in forensics the best I could get was two weeks placement, mostly making the coffee! (I did meet Barry Fisher in Los Angeles in June last year with a view to an internship in 2005 but I may have to reconsider that - if he even was considering me! He's such a nice person, a pleasure to meet.) So I thought, well, I'll do my placement in the Coroner's Court. Sounded good to me. One week before starting, they cancelled all placements and aren't doing them any more. Why? Because a bunch of Year 10 (if you don't mind) students who were doing work experience there (in the Coroner's Court?) fouled up just about everything they touched. So it put them off taking on anyone, even of my "old" age. Same happened in Customs. I thought, okay that would be great. Nope, could n't get there either. So I finally agreed to do a project RELATED to an aspect of CSI which I had not submitted before. It has to be approximately 12,000 words and involves all manner of interesting experiments and a person (who I shan't name at this stage, in Chicago) kindly offered to teach me his years of knowledge on blood stain pattern analysis at no charge. We have been doing this via Webcam and voice thingee and I find it fascinating and the lecturer concerned is wonderful. His patience is incredible. We have an online lecture via the Webcam for about two hours once a week. The finished article will be published and placed in my University library. Now, thank God, my wonderful friend does not mind how long it takes to complete this course. He suggested six months or even longer if I feel I need it. I can't see how you can learn everything about BSPA in 40 hours - well to me at least, it seems impossible and we are really starting from the nitty gritty, grounds up approach. I am thoroughly enjoying the experiments. To my way of looking at the CJ degree, unless you wish to work in a court environment (and my friend at Uni has just begun an internship at the Department of Justice on research into (oh, may I shouldn't mention it) but anyway it's a whole new program and it suits her to a T! I'm more a hands-on person as I stated and staying and gathering research figures would bore me to sobs. If I had to just rely on my CJA/Criminology degree, then I think I would aim at lecturing. I'm a great believer in passing on knowledge to others. At the moment I do sessional lecturing on risk assessment, threshold, parts of profiling, victimology etc. Even though my first area of interest is forensics, I really, really like profiling and am endeavouring to assist a profiler in WA - having stressed to him that I have NOT YET FINISHED MY DEGREE! But we are working well together and it's wonderful. We are coming up with very interesting results. With a criminology degree, what else can you do but lecture? I mean you aren't called to crime scenes or whatever. I couldn't agree more with you whenyou say that your knowledge of social sciences is extremely handy in forensic research. I'm being urged by my lecturers to go on to my Masters etc, but my God, by the time I finish it all, I'd probably be too old to remember what I have learnt! I'm no kid! For some reason, sociology has been dropped as from this year at our Uni. Personally I'd rather do that than management 1,2,3,4, etc - I'm still trying to work out where that fits in! I am a student member of the AAFS but I'll also have a look at the site that you kindly suggested regarding criminologists. Thanks for your comments, I appreciate it. I am always open to criticism because it can only be helpful (though perhaps not always). When I have someone to read through my assignments etc, I tell them to be as brutal as they like, it won't offend me, in fact it's just the opposite. I thrive on criticism. So if you have anything else you want to tell me, go ahead, it won't offend me. Thanks for your input, it's nice to know that people care enough to reply. Take care Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Khey Sent: Sunday, 14 March 2004 12:39 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback Lynn/Bob, There is a point to a CJ degree, of course...but, by all means... nothing that has to do with forensics will come out of the degree. The only advantage of this type of degree in a forensic setting is that I have learned the benefits of social science knowledge when applying them to public health/forensic research. But, then again...my degree is in Sociology with a concentration in Criminology...and my Ph.D. will be in Criminology, which is far fetched from a Criminal Justice degree...especially at the Ph.D. level. Now there are BIIIIIG differences between 1) Criminal Justice, 2) Criminology, and 3) the wide world of the Forensic Sciences. I guess the question to ask here is...what is the goal that you have in mind? Of course, a good place to look is the AAFS link that Bob has posted for the forensic sciences...but if you are interested in the courts, procedural justice, corrections, policy, criminal/civil law and torts...etc....check out the American Society of Criminology's site at www.asc41.com Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback > Hi Bob, I agree with totally about the CJA degree. When I began studying, I > thought "Oooh, criminology and CJA" sounds really interesting. Well it was > interesting but I soon figured out that it wasn't going to be of much help > to me as I had no intention of working in a court situation. No way! So > then they added forensics to the degree and I'm pretty sure it's available > online (I'm in Australia) but what's the point? As you say, how on earth > can you do an entire forensics course online? What about CSI, what about > blood stain etc, photography, or any other discipline. You can't do that > online completely. You still have to do a certain amount of lab work or > experiments etc. > > I have almost completed my degree in Criminology and CJA - but what's the > point? I'm more interested in forensics which I've already finished. So I > feel I'm plodding through CJA and Crim for nothing as I don't intend to use > them. But I won't give up when I'm so close to finishing it all. Psychology > is about the only thing I've found to be of use. As I'm extremely > interested in profiling, I find psychology helpful in that area. But my > real interest lies in forensics. But nobody explained this to me prior to > returning to Uni - nobody told me that I wouldn't be doing forensics unless > I went to a different Uni and even then, we weren't allowed to visit crime > scenes, only attend autopsies. > > Like you say, there's no escaping it, you HAVE to spend time on campus and > in laboratories etc even with a distance learning based programme. Anyway, > that's the impression I have gained from looking around the Universities in > Australia. > > Regards > > Lynn > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > [EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 13 23:00:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2E40aAk025378 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:00:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2E40aOc025377 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:00:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:58:42 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <01a501c40965$296861b0$6500a8c0@davelaptop> Thread-Index: AcQJZV4zYSqi9GQVTgmPe0onaG081gAEuO9A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Me again, Dave. I don't have your private email address or I would write to you there. Would you care to send it to me at lynncoceani@connexus.net.au I would appreciate it. Thanks, mate! Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Khey Sent: Sunday, 14 March 2004 12:39 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback Lynn/Bob, There is a point to a CJ degree, of course...but, by all means... nothing that has to do with forensics will come out of the degree. The only advantage of this type of degree in a forensic setting is that I have learned the benefits of social science knowledge when applying them to public health/forensic research. But, then again...my degree is in Sociology with a concentration in Criminology...and my Ph.D. will be in Criminology, which is far fetched from a Criminal Justice degree...especially at the Ph.D. level. Now there are BIIIIIG differences between 1) Criminal Justice, 2) Criminology, and 3) the wide world of the Forensic Sciences. I guess the question to ask here is...what is the goal that you have in mind? Of course, a good place to look is the AAFS link that Bob has posted for the forensic sciences...but if you are interested in the courts, procedural justice, corrections, policy, criminal/civil law and torts...etc....check out the American Society of Criminology's site at www.asc41.com Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [forens] Higher Education in Forensic: Appreciate any feedback > Hi Bob, I agree with totally about the CJA degree. When I began studying, I > thought "Oooh, criminology and CJA" sounds really interesting. Well it was > interesting but I soon figured out that it wasn't going to be of much help > to me as I had no intention of working in a court situation. No way! So > then they added forensics to the degree and I'm pretty sure it's available > online (I'm in Australia) but what's the point? As you say, how on earth > can you do an entire forensics course online? What about CSI, what about > blood stain etc, photography, or any other discipline. You can't do that > online completely. You still have to do a certain amount of lab work or > experiments etc. > > I have almost completed my degree in Criminology and CJA - but what's the > point? I'm more interested in forensics which I've already finished. So I > feel I'm plodding through CJA and Crim for nothing as I don't intend to use > them. But I won't give up when I'm so close to finishing it all. Psychology > is about the only thing I've found to be of use. As I'm extremely > interested in profiling, I find psychology helpful in that area. But my > real interest lies in forensics. But nobody explained this to me prior to > returning to Uni - nobody told me that I wouldn't be doing forensics unless > I went to a different Uni and even then, we weren't allowed to visit crime > scenes, only attend autopsies. > > Like you say, there's no escaping it, you HAVE to spend time on campus and > in laboratories etc even with a distance learning based programme. Anyway, > that's the impression I have gained from looking around the Universities in > Australia. > > Regards > > Lynn > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > [EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 28/02/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Sun Mar 14 22:53:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2F3rP7b013016 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:53:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2F3rPFX013015 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:53:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:52:45 +1100 From: Claude Roux Subject: [forens] X-Sender: croux@mailbox.uts.edu.au To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu, forensic-science@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <6.0.0.22.0.20040315102128.0370d698@mailbox.uts.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear all, This message might interest people located in Australia: The Centre for Forensic Science, University of Technology Sydney, and the Australian & New Zealand Forensic Science Society (NSW Branch) are pleased to celebrate 10 years of forensic undergraduate teaching in Australia with a public night at UTS on the 26th March, 7-10 pm. The program includes: - Stephanie Hales, UTS Graduate, NSW Police Service - Gunshot residues and counter-terrorism in NSW. - Dr. Naomi Jones, UTS Graduate, Australian Federal Police - Australia's contribution to latent fingerprint development. - Prof. Olivier Ribaux, School of Forensic Science, University of Lausanne - World authority in forensic intelligence and intelligence-led policing. Olivier argues that a better conceptualisation of how to integrate forensic case data with other types of criminal information is needed. His presentation will provide actual examples that will illustrate the arguments and suggest directions for research. - Suresh Sood, Co-Director of the Complex Systems Research Centre, UTS, and David Enwistle, General Manager from NetMap Analytics. Will describe how NetMap, a software tool to analyse situations characterized by complexity, was used by police to solve the Belanglo backpacker murders. Capable of untangling complex information webs, NetMap enabled the investigators to narrow a field of 18 million potential suspects to just 32, among whom was backpacker murderer Ivan Milat. By attending you will: - Learn about gunshot residues and forensic response to terrorism. - Understand why Australia is a world leader in fingerprint research. - Appreciate how forensic case data could contribute more valuably to the provision of intelligence, a concept which attracts a great deal of attention since September 11. - See how a powerful software tool could identify Ivan Milat as a suspect in the Belanglo backpacker murders case. Please see the attached file or visit www.forensics.edu.au for more information. I hope to meet you on this occasion if you are in the area at the time. Regards Claude ========================================== Professor Claude Roux Director, Centre for Forensic Science Dept. of Chemistry, Materials and Forensic Science University of Technology Sydney PO Box 123, Broadway, NSW, AUSTRALIA, 2007 Tel: +61 2 9514 17 18 Fax: +61 2 9514 14 60 Email: Claude.Roux@uts.edu.au http://www.forensics.edu.au http://www.science.uts.edu.au UTS CRICOS Provider Code: 00099F DISCLAIMER ======================================================================== This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views the University of Technology Sydney. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. ======================================================================== --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/pdf --- [EndPost by Claude Roux ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 11:49:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FGn6Lm024005 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FGn6RT024004 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:49:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <4055B377.E542B628@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:15:27 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] Tattoos in relation to radiotherapy treatment Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, I have been reading that tattoos are sometimes seen in relation to radiotherapy treatment. Can someone tell me how? Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 12:29:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FHT1TA026040 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:29:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FHT1Ma026039 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:29:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:28:45 -0500 From: SkipnCar@aol.com To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] A Thought MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1AC6A192.4791D44B.0082C61F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 193.220.82.26 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The pros and cons of a CJ degree are varied. But I wish the various educational institutions of the nations would realize the difference between Criminalistics and Criminology. Many think they are interchangeable. They are not. Criminology is the study of the criminal mind. Criminalistics is the analysis of physical evidence. Just sounding off from Tanzania, East Africa. Carla -- Carla Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL  33067-3403 954-796-8063 Live well Laugh often Love much [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 12:36:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FHaHrc026499 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FHaHN3026498 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:36:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040315113126.01b018a8@pop.avalon.net> X-Sender: pnoth@pop.avalon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:34:37 -0600 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Peter Nothnagle Subject: Re: [forens] Tattoos in relation to radiotherapy treatment In-Reply-To: <4055B377.E542B628@hotmail.com> References: <4055B377.E542B628@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Prof. Aggrawal, The x-ray beams must be precisely aimed, exactly in the same place for many treatments. Sometimes tiny marks are tatooed on the patient's skin to assist in aligning the equipment. Is this what you mean? Best, Peter Nothnagle At 07:45 AM 3/15/2004, you wrote: >Dear List, >I have been reading that tattoos are sometimes seen in relation to >radiotherapy treatment. Can someone tell me how? Thanks. >Sincerely >Professor Anil Aggrawal >Professor of Forensic Medicine >Maulana Azad Medical College >S-299 Greater Kailash-1 >New Delhi-110048 >INDIA >Phone: 26465460, 26413101 >Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com >Page me via ICQ #19727771 >Websites: > >1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites >http://www.geradts.com/~anil >2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology >http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html >3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia >http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html >4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page >http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html >5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 >6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews >http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html >7. Forensic Careers >http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html >8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po > >*Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I >tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being >called when the top doctors have failed!* > `\|||/ > (@@) >ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ >_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| >___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ >_____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ > > > >[EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] [EndPost by Peter Nothnagle ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 13:11:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FIBZYg027546 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FIBZ8g027544 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:11:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <4055F1C5.E869F709@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:11:17 -0500 From: "Lana Thompson, M.A." Organization: Medical @ Scientific X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-WNS5.0 (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Tattoos in relation to radiotherapy treatment References: <4055B377.E542B628@hotmail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hi Anil, The radiation oncology department puts the patient through what is known as a "simulation" procedure. Instead of actual beams, they shine a light at the target area where the radiation will go. The patient is then tattooed in the radiation oncology department for the following reasons: 1. So that if , during this course of therapy, another technician (other than the one who performs the simulation) treats the patient there will be no doubt about where the beam should be aimed. 2. So that in the future, if the patient goes to another treatment center, they will be able to see where the treatment was performed and not treat the same area. This way, pathologic bone fractures or other tissue destruction can be precluded. Only a certain amount of radiation can be delivered to a particular area of the body. 3. Of forensic significance is that when the patient dies the medical examiner can see the tattoos and know that the patient presented for treatment for radiation. (but not necessarily did the patient complete the treatment) Hope this helps, Lana [EndPost by "Lana Thompson, M.A." ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 13:24:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FIOYr0028005 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:24:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FIOYJd028004 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:24:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [219.65.253.237] X-Originating-Email: [dr_anil@hotmail.com] X-Sender: dr_anil@hotmail.com From: "anil aggrawal" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Tattoos in relation to radiotherapy treatment Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:24:28 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2004 18:24:28.0736 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0C22400:01C40ABA] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Yes, this sounds like it. Many thanks. Regards Anil >From: Peter Nothnagle >Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu >To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [forens] Tattoos in relation to radiotherapy treatment >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:34:37 -0600 > >Dear Prof. Aggrawal, > >The x-ray beams must be precisely aimed, exactly in the same place >for many treatments. Sometimes tiny marks are tatooed on the >patient's skin to assist in aligning the equipment. Is this what >you mean? > >Best, >Peter Nothnagle > >At 07:45 AM 3/15/2004, you wrote: >>Dear List, >>I have been reading that tattoos are sometimes seen in relation to >>radiotherapy treatment. Can someone tell me how? Thanks. >>Sincerely >>Professor Anil Aggrawal >>Professor of Forensic Medicine >>Maulana Azad Medical College >>S-299 Greater Kailash-1 >>New Delhi-110048 >>INDIA >>Phone: 26465460, 26413101 >>Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com >>Page me via ICQ #19727771 >>Websites: >> >>1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites >>http://www.geradts.com/~anil >>2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and >>Toxicology >>http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html >>3. Book reviews of latest forensic >>books/journals/software/multimedia >>http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html >>4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page >>http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html >>5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page >>http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 >>6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews >>http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html >>7. Forensic Careers >>http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html >>8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po >> >>*Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and >>I >>tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being >>called when the top doctors have failed!* >> `\|||/ >> (@@) >>ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ >>_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| >>___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ >>_____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ >> >> >> >>[EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] > > >[EndPost by Peter Nothnagle ] ------------------------------------------ Get head-hunted by 10,000 recruiters. ------------------------------------------ Post your CV on naukri.com today. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- [EndPost by "anil aggrawal" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 13:27:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FIRW7o028322 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:27:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FIRWeR028321 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:27:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [219.65.253.237] X-Originating-Email: [dr_anil@hotmail.com] X-Sender: dr_anil@hotmail.com From: "anil aggrawal" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Tattoos in relation to radiotherapy treatment Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:27:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2004 18:27:27.0126 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B164B60:01C40ABB] Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Excellent Lana. This is encyclopedic. I didn't know all this. Very helpful. Many thanks. Regards, Anil >From: "Lana Thompson, M.A." >Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu >To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [forens] Tattoos in relation to radiotherapy treatment >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:11:17 -0500 > >Hi Anil, > >The radiation oncology department puts the patient through what is known as >a "simulation" procedure. Instead of actual beams, they shine a light at >the target area where the radiation will go. The patient is then tattooed >in the radiation oncology department for the following reasons: > >1. So that if , during this course of therapy, another technician (other >than the one who performs the simulation) treats the patient there will be >no doubt about where the beam should be aimed. > >2. So that in the future, if the patient goes to another treatment center, >they will be able to see where the treatment was performed and not treat >the same area. This way, pathologic bone fractures or other tissue >destruction can be precluded. Only a certain amount of radiation can be >delivered to a particular area of the body. > >3. Of forensic significance is that when the patient dies the medical >examiner can see the tattoos and know that the patient presented for >treatment for radiation. (but not necessarily did the patient complete the >treatment) > >Hope this helps, > >Lana > >[EndPost by "Lana Thompson, M.A." ] ------------------------------------------ Take a loan. Win great prizes! Handsome prizes to be won! ------------------------------------------ Take a loan & win TV, Fridge & many more prizes ! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- [EndPost by "anil aggrawal" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 14:02:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FJ2LRs029349 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FJ2Ltm029348 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:02:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: LamarM@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:02:11 EST Subject: Re: [forens] A Thought To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5016 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In a message dated 3/15/2004 12:29:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, SkipnCar@aol.com writes: But I wish the various educational institutions of the nations would realize the difference between Criminalistics and Criminology. Many think they are interchangeable. They are not. Well Said, Carla! In their zeal to fill the classrooms, it seems that colleges are overselling the usefulness of a criminal justice degree. It is not possible to obtain professional forensic science employment without a degree in science in many lab systems. Lamar Miller Forensic Document Examiner Hendersonville, NC --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by LamarM@aol.com] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 16:00:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FL0U8b002431 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:00:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FL0U0D002430 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:00:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] A Thought Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:59:44 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <1AC6A192.4791D44B.0082C61F@aol.com> Thread-Index: AcQKszZSPjmPDWuWTUCBmqMs76zGHgAHB/qA Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2FL0QqC002425 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu As one who has done both, I couldn't agree more! Whilst doing criminology, I was repeatedly asked, "Oooh, do you work with serial killers"! Yeah, right! The small amount of time studying the actions of "serial killers" was hardly worth mentioning! Mind you, I must admit, I thought that's what criminology was all about BEFORE I began studying it - I soon found out differently. It's extremely interesting but not something with great career prospects unless you wish to become a lecturer, and I don’t so I added forensics to the course. And I'm sounding off as well, from Australia :)))) Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of SkipnCar@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, 16 March 2004 4:29 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] A Thought The pros and cons of a CJ degree are varied. But I wish the various educational institutions of the nations would realize the difference between Criminalistics and Criminology. Many think they are interchangeable. They are not. Criminology is the study of the criminal mind. Criminalistics is the analysis of physical evidence. Just sounding off from Tanzania, East Africa. Carla -- Carla Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL  33067-3403 954-796-8063 Live well Laugh often Love much [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 15 16:05:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2FL5uFj002928 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:05:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2FL5ukF002927 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:05:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <40561AAB.3040407@truman.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:05:47 -0600 From: Joy Pugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] A Thought References: In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Mr. Miller, I note that you are a document examiner. As we are discussing the educational requirements for forensic scientists, I would like to ask you and other document examiners that may be lurking out there- what would you advise an interested university student as to a recommended course of study, and how does one get their foot in the door to the profession? Thanks, Joy Pugh Truman State University LamarM@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 3/15/2004 12:29:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, >SkipnCar@aol.com writes: >But I wish the various educational institutions of the nations would realize >the difference between Criminalistics and Criminology. Many think they are >interchangeable. They are not. >Well Said, Carla! > >In their zeal to fill the classrooms, it seems that colleges are overselling >the usefulness of a criminal justice degree. > >It is not possible to obtain professional forensic science employment without >a degree in science in many lab systems. > >Lamar Miller >Forensic Document Examiner >Hendersonville, NC > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >[EndPost by LamarM@aol.com] > > > > [EndPost by Joy Pugh ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 13:56:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2GIusaF022365 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2GIus9m022364 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:56:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8501BACBD8@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Ammen, Alice" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Pets Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:56:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu List members, Do any of your labs have policies pertaining to pets in the laboratory? Input from trace people would be particularly appreciated. Alice Ammen Montana Forensic Science Division 2679 Palmer Street Missoula, MT 59808 Phone: (406) 329-1154 Fax: (406) 549-1067 Email: aammen@state.mt.us [EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 14:02:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2GJ2sJb022706 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2GJ2stv022705 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:02:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB54596644@dc-exchange2> From: "Hughes, Kevin" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: [forens] Plant DNA Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:02:41 -0600 Sensitivity: Private MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Can someone direct me to a source that is well-versed in plant DNA and its testing? I'm working on an old homicide and matching vegetation from the crime scene to the suspect's vehicle could be enough to seal the deal. Thanks! Kevin Hughes Dane County Sheriff's Office West Precinct Detective Bureau 608.833.8486 Email Text Pager: hughes@dc-pagenet.co.dane.wi.us CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this email including attachments is intended for the specific delivery to and use by the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and includes information which should be considered as private and confidential. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please reply to the sender immediately and delete the original message and any copy of it from your computer system. Thank you. [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 14:10:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2GJADkU023361 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2GJADik023359 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:10:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:10:51 +0200 From: Azriel Gorski Subject: Re: [forens] Pets In-reply-to: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8501BACBD8@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> X-Sender: azrielg@mail.netvision.net.il To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040316210555.01bbc138@mail.netvision.net.il> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 References: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8501BACBD8@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I think I have just realized that I have lived too long in that I am seeing a "new world". I have not seen a **policy** concerning pets in the laboratory. However in 30 plus years, I have never seen anyone bring a pet into the laboratory. The closest I have seen is a fish tank, tropical, in a reception area. Shalom from Jerusalem, Azriel Gorski At 20:56 16/03/2004, you wrote: >List members, > >Do any of your labs have policies pertaining to pets in the laboratory? >Input from trace people would be particularly appreciated. > >Alice Ammen >Montana Forensic Science Division >2679 Palmer Street >Missoula, MT 59808 > >Phone: (406) 329-1154 >Fax: (406) 549-1067 >Email: aammen@state.mt.us > > >[EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] ******************************************************************** Azriel Gorski Forensic Science Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre The Hebrew University of Jerusalem http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ "Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge that shapes lifetimes" - Richard Bach If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain. - Steven Wright Man must exist in a state of balance between risk and safety. Pure risk leads to self-destruction. Pure safety leads to stagnation. In between lies survival and progress. - Unknown ******************************************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Azriel Gorski ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 14:11:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2GJBnd8023639 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:11:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2GJBnCt023638 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:11:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:12:28 +0200 From: Azriel Gorski Subject: Re: [forens] Plant DNA In-reply-to: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB54596644@dc-exchange2> X-Sender: azrielg@mail.netvision.net.il To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040316211119.01bbb700@mail.netvision.net.il> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 References: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB54596644@dc-exchange2> X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu A student in our group is doing work on ancient DNA from grapes. If you think it will help I will talk to her and you can exchange email addresses. Shalom from Jerusalem, Azriel Gorski At 21:02 16/03/2004, you wrote: >Can someone direct me to a source that is well-versed in plant DNA and its >testing? I'm working on an old homicide and matching vegetation from the >crime scene to the suspect's vehicle could be enough to seal the deal. > >Thanks! > >Kevin Hughes >Dane County Sheriff's Office >West Precinct Detective Bureau >608.833.8486 >Email Text Pager: hughes@dc-pagenet.co.dane.wi.us > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this email including >attachments is intended for the specific delivery to and use by the >individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and includes information which should >be considered as private and confidential. Any review, retransmission, >dissemination, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by >anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received >this message in error, please reply to the sender immediately and delete the >original message and any copy of it from your computer system. Thank you. > >[EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] ******************************************************************** Azriel Gorski Forensic Science Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre The Hebrew University of Jerusalem http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ "Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge that shapes lifetimes" - Richard Bach If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain. - Steven Wright Man must exist in a state of balance between risk and safety. Pure risk leads to self-destruction. Pure safety leads to stagnation. In between lies survival and progress. - Unknown ******************************************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Azriel Gorski ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 14:13:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2GJD3di023941 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:13:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2GJD3pt023940 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:13:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [forens] Pets Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:12:57 -0500 Message-ID: <6834EDC78F56C4439EF5D9B530B7F785197AD9@ATF-HQ-EXMB01.ad.msnet.atf.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] Pets X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Index: AcQLiPCQqor7WJKlTLuZ2Ekb7i8N1wAASYyQ From: "Thompson, Robert M." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 19:12:57.0513 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0F00990:01C40B8A] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2GJD2hg023935 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu When I worked for the Oregon State Police I had a "clan" of dermestid beetles once that I got quite fond of! Poor buggers got gassed one day by the building bugman who didn't know they were my "pets"! (sniff...) Robert M. Thompson Firearms and Toolmark Examiner ATF Forensic Science Laboratory-Washington 6000 Ammendale Road Ammendale, MD 20705 Desk: (240) 264-3846 FAX: (240) 264-1498 Cell: (301) 980-5447 Robert.Thompson@atf.gov -----Original Message----- From: Ammen, Alice [mailto:aammen@state.mt.us] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:57 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Pets List members, Do any of your labs have policies pertaining to pets in the laboratory? Input from trace people would be particularly appreciated. Alice Ammen Montana Forensic Science Division 2679 Palmer Street Missoula, MT 59808 Phone: (406) 329-1154 Fax: (406) 549-1067 Email: aammen@state.mt.us [EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] [EndPost by "Thompson, Robert M." ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 14:25:15 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2GJPFuZ024719 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:25:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2GJPFQo024718 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:25:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <8A8F2B3AD27F454695C6129172BD2E4C02BF8004@dps-sphqasmail1.ps.state.me.us> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Pets Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:25:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The policy of Maine Department of Public Safety (if not all of state government) prohibits pets in the workplace. I believe it is more a result of liability than anything else. Gretchen Hicks Maine State Police Crime Laboratory -----Original Message----- From: Ammen, Alice [mailto:aammen@state.mt.us] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:57 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Pets List members, Do any of your labs have policies pertaining to pets in the laboratory? Input from trace people would be particularly appreciated. Alice Ammen Montana Forensic Science Division 2679 Palmer Street Missoula, MT 59808 Phone: (406) 329-1154 Fax: (406) 549-1067 Email: aammen@state.mt.us [EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 14:41:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2GJfY3V025377 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:41:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2GJfXex025376 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:41:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB54596649@dc-exchange2> From: "Hughes, Kevin" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Plant DNA Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:41:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu That would be very helpful, thank you! -----Original Message----- From: Azriel Gorski [mailto:azriel@castledesk.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:12 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Plant DNA A student in our group is doing work on ancient DNA from grapes. If you think it will help I will talk to her and you can exchange email addresses. Shalom from Jerusalem, Azriel Gorski At 21:02 16/03/2004, you wrote: >Can someone direct me to a source that is well-versed in plant DNA and its >testing? I'm working on an old homicide and matching vegetation from the >crime scene to the suspect's vehicle could be enough to seal the deal. > >Thanks! > >Kevin Hughes >Dane County Sheriff's Office >West Precinct Detective Bureau >608.833.8486 >Email Text Pager: hughes@dc-pagenet.co.dane.wi.us > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this email including >attachments is intended for the specific delivery to and use by the >individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and includes information which should >be considered as private and confidential. Any review, retransmission, >dissemination, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by >anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received >this message in error, please reply to the sender immediately and delete the >original message and any copy of it from your computer system. Thank you. > >[EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] ******************************************************************** Azriel Gorski Forensic Science Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre The Hebrew University of Jerusalem http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ "Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge that shapes lifetimes" - Richard Bach If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain. - Steven Wright Man must exist in a state of balance between risk and safety. Pure risk leads to self-destruction. Pure safety leads to stagnation. In between lies survival and progress. - Unknown ******************************************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Azriel Gorski ] [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 19:18:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2H0IeNC000554 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:18:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2H0IeLa000553 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:18:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: From: "Buckleton, John" To: "'Forens-L'" Subject: [forens] Cut crystal Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:20:58 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Does anyone know how to tell cut crystal from whatever non-cut crystal is? John Buckleton ESR New Zealand john.buckleton@esr.cri.nz phone +64 +9 8153-904 fax +64 +9 8496-046 P.B. 92021 Auckland New Zealand ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ WARNING: This email and any attachments may be confidential and/or privileged. They are intended for the addressee only and are not to be read, used, copied or disseminated by anyone receiving them in error. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return email and delete this message and any attachments. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the official views of the Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited (ESR). The recipient of this e-mail should be aware that this e-mail and any attachments to it has been scanned before despatch but that it might not be free from viruses in their various forms. ESR strongly recommends that the recipient uses anti-virus software to screen all e-mails received externally. ESR does not accept any liability for any loss or damage that may occur as a result of the transmission of this e-mail to the recipient. Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited http://www.esr.cri.nz ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [EndPost by "Buckleton, John" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 20:34:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2H1Yj5d001707 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:34:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2H1YjdB001706 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:34:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:34:36 -0500 From: KLevenson@aol.com To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] RE: Cut Crystal MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <24B4664C.588F4046.02389161@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 66.234.198.181 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear John: This is my non-professional information: I believe cut crystal contains lead. In addition, it makes a melodic ringing sound when you flick your finger against it. Kathryn Levenson Science Teacher Maybeck High School Berkeley, CA [EndPost by KLevenson@aol.com] From forens-owner Tue Mar 16 23:33:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2H4XmpJ003712 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2H4XmtQ003711 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:33:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Gerald L. Hurst" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Cut crystal Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:31:05 -0600 Message-ID: <013f01c40bd8$a92da980$6401a8c0@austin.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Crystal, cut or otherwise, usually contains a high percentage of lead to impart a high refractive index and high density. Cut crystal has been literally cut or ground with a hard abrasive such as diamond to impart sharply dilineated patterns or facets. If a similar object is cast in a mold, the edges of the patterns will be less sharply defined. Jerry Gerald L. Hurst ghurst@austin.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Buckleton, John Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:21 PM To: 'Forens-L' Subject: [forens] Cut crystal Does anyone know how to tell cut crystal from whatever non-cut crystal is? John Buckleton ESR New Zealand john.buckleton@esr.cri.nz phone +64 +9 8153-904 fax +64 +9 8496-046 P.B. 92021 Auckland New Zealand ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ WARNING: This email and any attachments may be confidential and/or privileged. They are intended for the addressee only and are not to be read, used, copied or disseminated by anyone receiving them in error. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return email and delete this message and any attachments. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the official views of the Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited (ESR). The recipient of this e-mail should be aware that this e-mail and any attachments to it has been scanned before despatch but that it might not be free from viruses in their various forms. ESR strongly recommends that the recipient uses anti-virus software to screen all e-mails received externally. ESR does not accept any liability for any loss or damage that may occur as a result of the transmission of this e-mail to the recipient. Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited http://www.esr.cri.nz ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [EndPost by "Buckleton, John" ] [EndPost by "Gerald L. Hurst" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 02:38:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2H7ca7n005529 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:38:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2H7ca7m005528 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:38:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com Message-ID: <192.271bc6c4.2d895a74@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:38:28 EST Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10712 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if she can help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what direction for you to go in. If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is ok. Jeni Williams --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 07:02:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HC2877008850 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:02:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HC28k8008849 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:02:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [forens] Cut crystal Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:02:03 -0500 Message-ID: <6834EDC78F56C4439EF5D9B530B7F785197ADA@ATF-HQ-EXMB01.ad.msnet.atf.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] Cut crystal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Index: AcQLtfE/grpXBpfjRtKfKWkU54Kv7AAYGP0g From: "Thompson, Robert M." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2004 12:02:03.0318 (UTC) FILETIME=[A90CB560:01C40C17] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2HC27KB008844 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu John, I am a collector of "American Brilliant" (late 19th, early 20th century) cut glass, and the main characteristics in determining cut glass from pressed glass is generally, cut glass 1) has sharper delineated patterns where pressed glass has a more rounded edge to the pattern, 2) has high lead content, thus refraction is higher in cut crystal, 3) have in the cut areas many times "toolmarks" in the pattern that may have been polished out after cutting 4) the glass is generally thicker to accept the cuts. It is true that you can hear a good "ring" with lead cut glass, but there are many very finely made pressed glass products and antiques that also can "ring", and are of very high quality. There are many people over the world that collect pressed glass also, attracted to their value and artistic patterns. Robert M. Thompson Firearms and Toolmark Examiner ATF Forensic Science Laboratory-Washington 6000 Ammendale Road Ammendale, MD 20705 Desk: (240) 264-3846 FAX: (240) 264-1498 Cell: (301) 980-5447 Robert.Thompson@atf.gov -----Original Message----- From: Buckleton, John [mailto:John.Buckleton@esr.cri.nz] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:21 PM To: 'Forens-L' Subject: [forens] Cut crystal Does anyone know how to tell cut crystal from whatever non-cut crystal is? John Buckleton ESR New Zealand john.buckleton@esr.cri.nz phone +64 +9 8153-904 fax +64 +9 8496-046 P.B. 92021 Auckland New Zealand ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ WARNING: This email and any attachments may be confidential and/or privileged. They are intended for the addressee only and are not to be read, used, copied or disseminated by anyone receiving them in error. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return email and delete this message and any attachments. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the official views of the Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited (ESR). The recipient of this e-mail should be aware that this e-mail and any attachments to it has been scanned before despatch but that it might not be free from viruses in their various forms. ESR strongly recommends that the recipient uses anti-virus software to screen all e-mails received externally. ESR does not accept any liability for any loss or damage that may occur as a result of the transmission of this e-mail to the recipient. Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited http://www.esr.cri.nz ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [EndPost by "Buckleton, John" ] [EndPost by "Thompson, Robert M." ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 09:01:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HE1SMf010805 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:01:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HE1Sas010804 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:01:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Subject: [forens] Jane Meares/FSST/TAS is out of the office. From: "Jane Meares/FSST/TAS" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:01:00 +1100 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on SMTPMTA/Servers/TAS(Release 5.07a |May 14, 2001) at 18/03/2004 01:01:05 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 X-NetTas-MTS: 'i2HE2uRw010869' scanned using rules for Default MTS (statgen.ncsu.edu), previous hop was [147.109.254.67] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.40 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I will be out of the office starting 17/03/2004 and will not return until 29/03/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. [EndPost by "Jane Meares/FSST/TAS" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 09:03:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HE3IHq010986 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HE3HBs010985 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:03:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:03:01 -0500 From: SkipnCar@aol.com To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <550BE926.29D0464F.0082C61F@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 X-AOL-IP: 193.220.82.26 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I, too, have never seen a 'pets in the lab' policy, but then, I've also never seen a 'motorcycle parking' policy either. Many forensic laboratories are located in government buildings which usually have a 'no pets unless an assisting animal' policy for the whole building. Pets would probably drive the trace and biology folks up a wall, not to mention the noise, water and potty problems. Why would this be an issue? Carla -- Carla Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL  33067-3403 954-796-8063 Live well Laugh often Love much [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 11:15:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HGFXoJ014467 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HGFXrC014466 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:15:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: WMorris400@aol.com Message-ID: <1e0.1b79aacb.2d89d396@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:15:18 EST Subject: Re: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? Egyptian mummies. To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I saw a documentary on this topic on either Discover or Learning Channel a couple of times. From what I gathered, the analyses seemed sound but are being challenged. I recall from my earlier years that there are many plants referred to in the early Egyptian writings which are no longer in existence or that are unknown as far as what their name used by Egyptians are in today's languages. Some were medicinal or religious use. Wayne Morris [EndPost by WMorris400@aol.com] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 11:19:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HGJ5JF014732 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HGJ5ZG014731 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:19:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Gerrit Volckeryck" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:19:01 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Thanks to everyone who replied. Their insights were very useful. Gerrit -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]Namens Gerrit Volckeryck Verzonden: donderdag 11 maart 2004 22:56 Aan: ForensL - On-Line Forensic Discussion Group; Forensic-Science@Yahoogroups. Com Onderwerp: [forens] Trace amounts of drugs : source ? Dear all, In a recent case, trace amounts of drugs (Cocaine) were found in a safe by vacuumcleaning it. The occupants of the house explained that that must have come from an amount of money that once had been put in the safe. They had read something about a high percentage of dollar bills that are contaminated with cocaine. So, secondary transfer should explain the trace amounts of cocaine in the safe. Does anyone know of any studies which have been done to examine this kind of hypothesis ? Thanks, Gerrit Volckeryck Federale Politie Gerechtelijke Dienst Laboratorium voor Technische en Wetenschappelijke Politie Simon Bolivarlaan 30 1000 Brussel Belgium tel. +32 2 208 48 48 fax. +32 2 208 48 50 [EndPost by "Gerrit Volckeryck" ] [EndPost by "Gerrit Volckeryck" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 14:32:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HJW7A9018940 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:32:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HJW75T018939 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:32:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <13986026.1079551925865.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:32:05 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: lisa101999@earthlink.net To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Don't laugh. A scant five years ago, a clerk filling in as receptionist on a Saturday brought his dog to the coroner's office to run around the lobby while we were open to the public. A dog. What do dogs follow? Scents. Does a coroner's office smell? Does a bear...never mind. After that, whenever my boss made threatening rumbles, I'd look her straight in the eye and say, "Look, Don brought his DOG to work and he's still employed. Don't expect me to worry about punching out five minutes early." Just so I don't get sued, I'll refrain from naming my (former) lab. Elizabeth PS The comment about punching out is not a figure of speech. We actually punched manilla cards into a time clock, everyone from the janitor to the PhD doing DNA analysis. [EndPost by lisa101999@earthlink.net] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 14:39:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HJdPia019389 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:39:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HJdPgc019388 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:39:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Forrest" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:39:22 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <13986026.1079551925865.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Gemma, an overweight black Labrador of pleasant disposition comes in with the Coroner here nearly every day. She behaves, is generally made a fuss of and probably does reduce tension. She also takes my secretary for a walk every lunch time to their mutual benefit. I don't like dogs but I can tolerate her. Robert Forrest A R W Forrest LLM, FRCP, FRCPath, CChem, FRSC Professor of Forensic Toxicology Medico-legal Centre Watery Street SHEFFIELD S3 7ES UK -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of lisa101999@earthlink.net Sent: 17 March 2004 19:32 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Don't laugh. A scant five years ago, a clerk filling in as receptionist on a Saturday brought his dog to the coroner's office to run around the lobby while we were open to the public. A dog. What do dogs follow? Scents. Does a coroner's office smell? Does a bear...never mind. After that, whenever my boss made threatening rumbles, I'd look her straight in the eye and say, "Look, Don brought his DOG to work and he's still employed. Don't expect me to worry about punching out five minutes early." Just so I don't get sued, I'll refrain from naming my (former) lab. Elizabeth PS The comment about punching out is not a figure of speech. We actually punched manilla cards into a time clock, everyone from the janitor to the PhD doing DNA analysis. [EndPost by lisa101999@earthlink.net] [EndPost by "Robert Forrest" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 15:01:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HK1Ubt020192 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:01:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HK1UA1020191 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:01:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Envelope-From: Webster@forensic-science.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: Webster@forensic-science.co.uk (Mark Webster) Subject: Re: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu CC: Webster@forensic-science.co.uk In-Reply-To: <550BE926.29D0464F.0082C61F@aol.com> Message-Id: X-Ameol-Version: 2.52.2000, Windows 98 4.10.1998 ( ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The current CEO of the Forensic Science Service acquired the nickname "Woofy" because he turned up for his first day at work at the Home Office Central Research Establishment with his pet dog! Mark Webster www.forensic-science.co.uk [EndPost by Webster@forensic-science.co.uk (Mark Webster)] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 16:20:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2HLKSts021864 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:20:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2HLKSCp021863 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:20:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:17:41 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQMVz7j9Ohh30lETfiIdQoGMjLzvAADM79A In-Reply-To: <13986026.1079551925865.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Aahhh, this is one of the benefits of working from home! I can't go anywhere without my German Shepherd, even University. They've put up with her lying outside the lecture room waiting and have never complained about her trotting down the hallways behind me. She's saved my life once already and everyone knows her. If it's cold, she lies inside the lecture theatre. I'm lucky that our course director is a dog "nut" and brings his own dogs in on occasions. My dog plays at the lake (on campus ) and chases the ducks during lunch break. She loves it and so do I, and nobody complains because she has a wonderful temperament, I guess. Good Lord, Elizabeth, I don't think I've punched a time clock for twenty years! I didn't know they still had them! Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of lisa101999@earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 6:32 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Don't laugh. A scant five years ago, a clerk filling in as receptionist on a Saturday brought his dog to the coroner's office to run around the lobby while we were open to the public. A dog. What do dogs follow? Scents. Does a coroner's office smell? Does a bear...never mind. After that, whenever my boss made threatening rumbles, I'd look her straight in the eye and say, "Look, Don brought his DOG to work and he's still employed. Don't expect me to worry about punching out five minutes early." Just so I don't get sued, I'll refrain from naming my (former) lab. Elizabeth PS The comment about punching out is not a figure of speech. We actually punched manilla cards into a time clock, everyone from the janitor to the PhD doing DNA analysis. [EndPost by lisa101999@earthlink.net] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 20:24:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2I1O9vA026022 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:24:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2I1O9FW026021 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:24:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) To: Forens-l (E-mail) Message-Id: <64D60074-785B-11D8-B9E4-000A95DBA89C@mac.com> From: Eric Stauffer Subject: [forens] Thanks - Cannabis in Urine Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:38:13 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII;format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I would like to thank any of you who replied to my thread about Cannabis in Urine. I got a great deal of information. Have a great day, Regards, Eric -------------------------------------- Eric Stauffer, MS, D-ABC, CFEI Senior Forensic Scientist MME Forensic Services 1039 Industrial Court Suwanee, GA 30024 USA Office + 1 (678) 730 2000 Cell + 1 (404) 663 3611 Fax + 1 (678) 482 9677 Email estauffer@mmelab.com Web http://www.mmelab.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by Eric Stauffer ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 23:04:24 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2I44OX9028954 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:04:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2I44OPY028953 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:04:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:54:11 +1100 From: Morris Odell Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? In-reply-to: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7756B1C7@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A288@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Organization: Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I think a nice piece of blue cheese makes the perfect pet in the office. It's alive, quiet, unobtrusive, smells better than most of our clinical forensic patients and contributes greatly to our Friday afternoon get-togethers. Dr Morris Odell Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine [EndPost by Morris Odell ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 17 23:34:03 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2I4Y3xr000093 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:34:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2I4Y3WD000092 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:34:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: mail.bcpl.net: cdef owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:34:03 -0500 (EST) From: Carol Define MD X-X-Sender: cdef@mail To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? In-Reply-To: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A288@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Message-ID: References: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A288@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> X-Organization: BCPL.NET Internet Services X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu PAHLEASE.....don't tell me you have Friday afternoon get-togethers with your clinical forensic patients!!!! Very delightful, I'm sure. And, do you serve A pate with THE blue cheese, per chance? And, is the pate 'home-made'? (I'm getting Martha Stewart vibes now) And, well, did anyone ever discover what happened to your adminstrator's cat? T'was SO unfortunate. [In advance of Victorian Friday Follies] On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Morris Odell wrote: > I think a nice piece of blue cheese makes the perfect pet in the office. > It's alive, quiet, unobtrusive, smells better than most of our clinical > forensic patients and contributes greatly to our Friday afternoon > get-togethers. > > Dr Morris Odell > Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine > > [EndPost by Morris Odell ] > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 00:01:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2I51oqK000967 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:01:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2I51orF000966 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:01:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:59:34 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A288@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQMnoijVPP6VOLvT8OxS7ml/Ua8ywABwNrw Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu But blue cheese smells like dirty sox! My dog doesn't!! (Morris, if you see Ian Forrester, could you say hi to him for me - I'd come and visit him but don't have time.) Regards all Lynn Surfcoast Secretarial Services lynncoceani@connexus.net.au Etc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Morris Odell Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 9:54 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? I think a nice piece of blue cheese makes the perfect pet in the office. It's alive, quiet, unobtrusive, smells better than most of our clinical forensic patients and contributes greatly to our Friday afternoon get-togethers. Dr Morris Odell Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine [EndPost by Morris Odell ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 00:09:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2I59aEU001419 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:09:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2I59aBg001418 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:09:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:51:08 +1100 From: Morris Odell Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? In-reply-to: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7756B2D6@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <07A064EA6042D4118A62009027F70E7733A28E@nt_exchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Organization: Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > PAHLEASE.....don't tell me you have Friday afternoon > get-togethers with your clinical forensic patients!!!! AAAARGH what a thought! No, it's with the doctors and staff here. Mind you there are some peculiar characters in that lot too :-) Dr Morris Odell PS: and yes, we do have (store bought) pate and a few other goodies as well. [EndPost by Morris Odell ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 00:13:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2I5DpkH001725 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:13:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2I5Dpus001724 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:13:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:12:31 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQMop/kEbBxKhPDS52QnHcvCTHvHgABBfrw Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Oh no, Carol - Martha Stewart vibes! Where do you go from there! I'm frightened to think. Another good thing about working from home - you don't HAVE to work on Fridays (hee, hee!) Aaah, picture it - walking in the sun, driving down to the surfcoast to visit my grandchildren, walking on the beach, having dinner at the local pub, staying the night with my daughter and son-in-law, running along the beach at midnight with my dog in the moonlight - and it all begins on Friday mornings! I'm SO sorry you can't join us - but you are always welcome, we always have room for one more! Regards, Lynn (Pre Friday Follies as well!) Wellllllll, I won't be here will I? I'll be doing exactly what I just described, well!Someone has to! -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Carol Define MD Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 3:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? PAHLEASE.....don't tell me you have Friday afternoon get-togethers with your clinical forensic patients!!!! Very delightful, I'm sure. And, do you serve A pate with THE blue cheese, per chance? And, is the pate 'home-made'? (I'm getting Martha Stewart vibes now) And, well, did anyone ever discover what happened to your adminstrator's cat? T'was SO unfortunate. [In advance of Victorian Friday Follies] On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Morris Odell wrote: > I think a nice piece of blue cheese makes the perfect pet in the office. > It's alive, quiet, unobtrusive, smells better than most of our > clinical forensic patients and contributes greatly to our Friday > afternoon get-togethers. > > Dr Morris Odell > Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine > > [EndPost by Morris Odell ] > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 00:38:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2I5cs6x002563 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:38:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2I5csh4002562 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:38:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: mail.bcpl.net: cdef owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:38:54 -0500 (EST) From: Carol Define MD X-X-Sender: cdef@mail To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: X-Organization: BCPL.NET Internet Services X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Lynn, I've been to Australia. My son is married to an Australian. I have to say that Sydney is absolutely the most beautiful city I have ever visited....and I've been to many. I sincerely recommend it. We plan to go back soon and also visit New Zealand. You are so blessed. Carol On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Lynn Coceani wrote: > Oh no, Carol - Martha Stewart vibes! Where do you go from there! I'm > frightened to think. Another good thing about working from home - you don't > HAVE to work on Fridays (hee, hee!) Aaah, picture it - walking in the sun, > driving down to the surfcoast to visit my grandchildren, walking on the > beach, having dinner at the local pub, staying the night with my daughter > and son-in-law, running along the beach at midnight with my dog in the > moonlight - and it all begins on Friday mornings! I'm SO sorry you can't > join us - but you are always welcome, we always have room for one more! > > Regards, > > > Lynn (Pre Friday Follies as well!) Wellllllll, I won't be here will I? I'll > be doing exactly what I just described, well!Someone has to! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Carol Define MD > Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 3:34 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? > > > PAHLEASE.....don't tell me you have Friday afternoon get-togethers with your > clinical forensic patients!!!! Very delightful, I'm sure. glurg> And, do you serve A pate with THE blue cheese, per chance? > And, is the pate 'home-made'? (I'm getting Martha Stewart vibes now) And, > well, did anyone ever discover what happened to your adminstrator's cat? > T'was SO unfortunate. > > [In advance of Victorian Friday Follies] > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Morris Odell wrote: > > > I think a nice piece of blue cheese makes the perfect pet in the office. > > It's alive, quiet, unobtrusive, smells better than most of our > > clinical forensic patients and contributes greatly to our Friday > > afternoon get-togethers. > > > > Dr Morris Odell > > Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine > > > > [EndPost by Morris Odell ] > > > > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 07:49:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2ICnPXe007850 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:49:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2ICnPGX007849 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:49:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:47:55 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQMq8gkNGAu5qwpQ9mRInH1oth0gQAOraaw Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Oooh, sorry Carol but I live in Melbourne which is much nicer than Sydney (this ought to start something if we have any Sydney-ites out there!) But you are always welcome to come and stay anyway - we have plenty of room! New Zealand is a beautiful place as well - it's so green. Take care and hope you can make it down here one day. Actually anyone coming over here is welcome to stay at our house - it would be a pleasure to have you ALL! Regards Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Carol Define MD Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 4:39 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Lynn, I've been to Australia. My son is married to an Australian. I have to say that Sydney is absolutely the most beautiful city I have ever visited....and I've been to many. I sincerely recommend it. We plan to go back soon and also visit New Zealand. You are so blessed. Carol On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Lynn Coceani wrote: > Oh no, Carol - Martha Stewart vibes! Where do you go from there! I'm > frightened to think. Another good thing about working from home - you > don't HAVE to work on Fridays (hee, hee!) Aaah, picture it - walking > in the sun, driving down to the surfcoast to visit my grandchildren, > walking on the beach, having dinner at the local pub, staying the > night with my daughter and son-in-law, running along the beach at midnight with my dog in the > moonlight - and it all begins on Friday mornings! I'm SO sorry you can't > join us - but you are always welcome, we always have room for one more! > > Regards, > > > Lynn (Pre Friday Follies as well!) Wellllllll, I won't be here will > I? I'll be doing exactly what I just described, well!Someone has to! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Carol Define MD > Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 3:34 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? > > > PAHLEASE.....don't tell me you have Friday afternoon get-togethers > with your clinical forensic patients!!!! Very delightful, I'm sure. > glurg> And, do you serve A pate with THE blue cheese, per chance? > And, is the pate 'home-made'? (I'm getting Martha Stewart vibes > now) And, well, did anyone ever discover what happened to your adminstrator's cat? > T'was SO unfortunate. > > [In advance of Victorian Friday Follies] > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Morris Odell wrote: > > > I think a nice piece of blue cheese makes the perfect pet in the office. > > It's alive, quiet, unobtrusive, smells better than most of our > > clinical forensic patients and contributes greatly to our Friday > > afternoon get-togethers. > > > > Dr Morris Odell > > Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine > > > > [EndPost by Morris Odell ] > > > > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 10:30:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2IFUB6f010776 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:30:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2IFUBjZ010775 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:30:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB54596657@dc-exchange2> From: "Hughes, Kevin" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:29:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some twigs, maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's possible, at what cost could the tests be performed. -----Original Message----- From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com [mailto:Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:38 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if she can help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what direction for you to go in. If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is ok. Jeni Williams --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 10:45:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2IFjonI011302 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:45:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2IFjo0Y011301 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:45:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040318074033.01e3b3c8@pop.earthlink.net> X-Sender: c.brenner@mail.comcast.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:45:45 -0800 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: "Charles H. Brenner" Subject: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Cc: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" In-Reply-To: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB54596657@dc-exchange2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu At 09:29 AM 3/18/2004 -0600, Hughes, Kevin wrote: >Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some twigs, >maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's possible, at >what cost could the tests be performed. I recall a talk some years ago about a case where matching foliage in a pickup to a particular side of town was part of the prosecution case. I think Ed Blake http://www.fsalab.com/etb_cv.htm assisted the defense. He had some rather pointed and perceptive questions for the speaker. Regardless, I'm sure he has knowledge about such matters and he probably has the lab expertise as well. Charles Brenner [EndPost by "Charles H. Brenner" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 11:06:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2IG6xhP012138 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:06:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2IG6xPq012137 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:06:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB5459665A@dc-exchange2> From: "Hughes, Kevin" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:06:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Thank you, I recall seeing a profile of the case on Forensic Files. I'll contact him. -----Original Message----- From: Charles H. Brenner [mailto:cbrenner@berkeley.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:46 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cc: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) At 09:29 AM 3/18/2004 -0600, Hughes, Kevin wrote: >Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some twigs, >maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's possible, at >what cost could the tests be performed. I recall a talk some years ago about a case where matching foliage in a pickup to a particular side of town was part of the prosecution case. I think Ed Blake http://www.fsalab.com/etb_cv.htm assisted the defense. He had some rather pointed and perceptive questions for the speaker. Regardless, I'm sure he has knowledge about such matters and he probably has the lab expertise as well. Charles Brenner [EndPost by "Charles H. Brenner" ] [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 11:44:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2IGiVfX013232 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:44:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2IGiVMB013231 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:44:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:45:16 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: "Patton, David" Subject: Re: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) In-reply-to: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB54596657@dc-exchange2> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cc: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.5 Build (47-uwe) X-Authentication: IMSP X-NAIMIME-Disclaimer: 1 X-NAIMIME-Modified: 1 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I have a question about plant DNA. Would anyone like to comment on the value of plant DNA linking a sample to a particular plant. For instance I have read that in the UK leylandii hedges are all clones so, I presume, similar DNA may not narrow it down to one plant. Thoughts? Dave On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:29:57 -0600 "Hughes, Kevin" wrote: > Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some twigs, > maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's possible, at > what cost could the tests be performed. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com [mailto:Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:38 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > > One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if she > can > help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what direction for > you > to go in. > If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is ok. > > Jeni Williams > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] > > > This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software > ---------------------------------------- Patton, David Email: David.Patton@uwe.ac.uk "University of the West of England" This email has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software [EndPost by "Patton, David" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 15:48:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2IKmMcE019609 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:48:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2IKmMYf019608 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:48:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Helix Biotech, Inc." To: Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:48:13 -0600 Message-ID: <000701c40d2a$57aefd90$7f010a0a@HelixOffice> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2IKmLuA019603 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu That's a good question. Both wild and cultivated plants employ various reproductive strategies. In general, plants that are grown from seed will be genetic individuals that, in principle, can be differentiated using DNA identity testing. Some wild plants, such as Quaking Aspen, reproduce asexually, and are genetically identical (clones). Among cultivated trees, many are grown from genetically unique root stocks but are grafted with genetically identical scions. Since we may be working with diverse species from case to case, it's not practical to identify polymorphic loci and develop specific PCR primers. Rather, RAPD (randomly amplified polymorphic DNA) methods are employed that can generate a pattern or "fingerprint" that is individual. It's similar in principle (but not methodology) to the multi-locus RFLP methods developed by Alec Jeffrey in the mid '80s. Alan Friedman, PhD Helix Biotech, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Patton, David Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:45 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cc: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: Re: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) I have a question about plant DNA. Would anyone like to comment on the value of plant DNA linking a sample to a particular plant. For instance I have read that in the UK leylandii hedges are all clones so, I presume, similar DNA may not narrow it down to one plant. Thoughts? Dave On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:29:57 -0600 "Hughes, Kevin" wrote: > Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some twigs, > maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's possible, at > what cost could the tests be performed. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com [mailto:Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:38 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > > One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if she > can > help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what direction for > you > to go in. > If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is ok. > > Jeni Williams > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] > > > This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software > ---------------------------------------- Patton, David Email: David.Patton@uwe.ac.uk "University of the West of England" This email has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software [EndPost by "Patton, David" ] [EndPost by "Helix Biotech, Inc." ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 16:16:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2ILGv4g020378 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:16:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2ILGvvD020377 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:16:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: mail.bcpl.net: cdef owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:16:55 -0500 (EST) From: Carol Define MD X-X-Sender: cdef@mail To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: X-Organization: BCPL.NET Internet Services X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Lynn, I've been to Melbourne as well. I recall some excellent seafood dinners, and as a souvenire I acquired a very nice piece of jewelry. Adalaide was fun but Kangaroo Island was the best. We spent New Years Eve there on Kangaroo Island. Although I had not personally encountered any spiders in Sydney, I understand that Sydney is the epicenter for poisonous spiders (leggies that bite)...and a number of venomous snakes (non-leggies that bite) are abundant in the area. These wouldn't seem like very good 'pets in the lab'...but in Australia, they could be a 'pet in the lab' (without being welcomed)! Carol On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Lynn Coceani wrote: > Oooh, sorry Carol but I live in Melbourne which is much nicer than Sydney > (this ought to start something if we have any Sydney-ites out there!) But > you are always welcome to come and stay anyway - we have plenty of room! > New Zealand is a beautiful place as well - it's so green. > > Take care and hope you can make it down here one day. Actually anyone > coming over here is welcome to stay at our house - it would be a pleasure to > have you ALL! > > Regards > > > Lynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Carol Define MD > Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 4:39 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? > > > > Lynn, I've been to Australia. My son is married to an Australian. I have to > say that Sydney is absolutely the most beautiful city I have ever > visited....and I've been to many. I sincerely recommend it. We plan to go > back soon and also visit New Zealand. You are so blessed. Carol > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Lynn Coceani wrote: > > > Oh no, Carol - Martha Stewart vibes! Where do you go from there! I'm > > frightened to think. Another good thing about working from home - you > > don't HAVE to work on Fridays (hee, hee!) Aaah, picture it - walking > > in the sun, driving down to the surfcoast to visit my grandchildren, > > walking on the beach, having dinner at the local pub, staying the > > night with my daughter and son-in-law, running along the beach at midnight > with my dog in the > > moonlight - and it all begins on Friday mornings! I'm SO sorry you can't > > join us - but you are always welcome, we always have room for one more! > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lynn (Pre Friday Follies as well!) Wellllllll, I won't be here will > > I? I'll be doing exactly what I just described, well!Someone has to! > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > > On Behalf Of Carol Define MD > > Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 3:34 PM > > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? > > > > > > PAHLEASE.....don't tell me you have Friday afternoon get-togethers > > with your clinical forensic patients!!!! Very delightful, I'm sure. > > > glurg> And, do you serve A pate with THE blue cheese, per chance? > > And, is the pate 'home-made'? (I'm getting Martha Stewart vibes > > now) And, well, did anyone ever discover what happened to your > adminstrator's cat? > > T'was SO unfortunate. > > > > [In advance of Victorian Friday Follies] > > > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Morris Odell wrote: > > > > > I think a nice piece of blue cheese makes the perfect pet in the office. > > > It's alive, quiet, unobtrusive, smells better than most of our > > > clinical forensic patients and contributes greatly to our Friday > > > afternoon get-togethers. > > > > > > Dr Morris Odell > > > Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine > > > > > > [EndPost by Morris Odell ] > > > > > > > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] > > > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > > > > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 16:42:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2ILgi0U021177 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:42:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2ILgiLU021176 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:42:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:41:46 +1100 From: Bentley Atchison Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6BC4DCAD6F0B0F48BC8102EF5D24AFEF012178@svexchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Thread-Index: AcQNLh0FoGEaKyZNRbiVAl8zZh9dFwAACt/Q content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I find it very interesting that scientists in forensic science are still using the terminology ""fingerprint" that is individual"". Given all the arguments against using terms such as "unique" or "individualization" in human DNA testing, surely this is not acceptable terminology now. I assume that before the plant geneticist presents evidence to a court, he/she has done a large amount of work on the population structure of the particular species being investigated (as well as seeing if any other species produce the same RAPD patterns). I assume this would include testing the statistical independence of the loci being detected by the RAPD systems (somewhat difficult I would have thought) and plant population genetics issues such as subpopulation structure and inbreeding. These issues are likely to be different depending on what species is being examined. Dr. Bentley Atchison Manager, Molecular Biology -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Helix Biotech, Inc. Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 7:48 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) That's a good question. Both wild and cultivated plants employ various reproductive strategies. In general, plants that are grown from seed will be genetic individuals that, in principle, can be differentiated using DNA identity testing. Some wild plants, such as Quaking Aspen, reproduce asexually, and are genetically identical (clones). Among cultivated trees, many are grown from genetically unique root stocks but are grafted with genetically identical scions. Since we may be working with diverse species from case to case, it's not practical to identify polymorphic loci and develop specific PCR primers. Rather, RAPD (randomly amplified polymorphic DNA) methods are employed that can generate a pattern or "fingerprint" that is individual. It's similar in principle (but not methodology) to the multi-locus RFLP methods developed by Alec Jeffrey in the mid '80s. Alan Friedman, PhD Helix Biotech, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Patton, David Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:45 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cc: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: Re: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) I have a question about plant DNA. Would anyone like to comment on the value of plant DNA linking a sample to a particular plant. For instance I have read that in the UK leylandii hedges are all clones so, I presume, similar DNA may not narrow it down to one plant. Thoughts? Dave On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:29:57 -0600 "Hughes, Kevin" wrote: > Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some > twigs, maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's > possible, at what cost could the tests be performed. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com [mailto:Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:38 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > > One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if > she can help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what > direction for you > to go in. > If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is ok. > > Jeni Williams > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] > > > This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses > and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software > ---------------------------------------- Patton, David Email: David.Patton@uwe.ac.uk "University of the West of England" This email has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software [EndPost by "Patton, David" ] [EndPost by "Helix Biotech, Inc." ] [EndPost by Bentley Atchison ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 16:52:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2ILqtUt021665 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:52:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2ILqta5021664 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:52:55 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:50:35 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQNLo5I5IBoCAh0THepLV0J8pIlaAAAzerw Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Oh, yes, Carol, they have all the nasties! Funnel web spiders and HEAPS of snakes. But the worse thing they have is ticks which get stuck onto my pet and can kill them. When I was living up in that area, I almost lost one dog because of a tick. It cost me a fortune to keep it alive - and the damned thing got run over by a truck the following week! We don't have anything quite as nasty in Melbourne. We have great restaurants - very multicultural, and my husband and I used to make it a point of going to a different restaurant once a month, i.e. African one month, Moroccan, Brazilian, Turkish, Mexican, Portuguese, etc, etc - we've eaten our way around Melbourne many times! My favourite is African. I'm not a seafood eater but apparently we have some great seafood restaurants. They've just finished building a huge film studio down by the beach so there'll be more films made here instead of going overseas, I guess. And some of the overseas film companies and coming here to film as well, so it makes for more work for a lot more people. I must confess I haven't been to Kangaroo Island but my daughter has and she loved it. Take care Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Carol Define MD Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 8:17 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Lynn, I've been to Melbourne as well. I recall some excellent seafood dinners, and as a souvenire I acquired a very nice piece of jewelry. Adalaide was fun but Kangaroo Island was the best. We spent New Years Eve there on Kangaroo Island. Although I had not personally encountered any spiders in Sydney, I understand that Sydney is the epicenter for poisonous spiders (leggies that bite)...and a number of venomous snakes (non-leggies that bite) are abundant in the area. These wouldn't seem like very good 'pets in the lab'...but in Australia, they could be a 'pet in the lab' (without being welcomed)! Carol On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Lynn Coceani wrote: > Oooh, sorry Carol but I live in Melbourne which is much nicer than > Sydney (this ought to start something if we have any Sydney-ites out > there!) But you are always welcome to come and stay anyway - we have plenty of room! > New Zealand is a beautiful place as well - it's so green. > > Take care and hope you can make it down here one day. Actually anyone > coming over here is welcome to stay at our house - it would be a > pleasure to have you ALL! > > Regards > > > Lynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Carol Define MD > Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 4:39 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? > > > > Lynn, I've been to Australia. My son is married to an Australian. I > have to say that Sydney is absolutely the most beautiful city I have > ever visited....and I've been to many. I sincerely recommend it. We > plan to go back soon and also visit New Zealand. You are so blessed. > Carol > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Lynn Coceani wrote: > > > Oh no, Carol - Martha Stewart vibes! Where do you go from there! > > I'm frightened to think. Another good thing about working from home > > - you don't HAVE to work on Fridays (hee, hee!) Aaah, picture it - > > walking in the sun, driving down to the surfcoast to visit my > > grandchildren, walking on the beach, having dinner at the local pub, > > staying the night with my daughter and son-in-law, running along the > > beach at midnight > with my dog in the > > moonlight - and it all begins on Friday mornings! I'm SO sorry you can't > > join us - but you are always welcome, we always have room for one more! > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lynn (Pre Friday Follies as well!) Wellllllll, I won't be here will > > I? I'll be doing exactly what I just described, well!Someone has to! > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > > On Behalf Of Carol Define MD > > Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 3:34 PM > > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? > > > > > > PAHLEASE.....don't tell me you have Friday afternoon get-togethers > > with your clinical forensic patients!!!! Very delightful, I'm sure. > > > glurg> And, do you serve A pate with THE blue cheese, per chance? > > And, is the pate 'home-made'? (I'm getting Martha Stewart vibes > > now) And, well, did anyone ever discover what happened to your > adminstrator's cat? > > T'was SO unfortunate. > > > > [In advance of Victorian Friday Follies] > > > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Morris Odell wrote: > > > > > I think a nice piece of blue cheese makes the perfect pet in the office. > > > It's alive, quiet, unobtrusive, smells better than most of our > > > clinical forensic patients and contributes greatly to our Friday > > > afternoon get-togethers. > > > > > > Dr Morris Odell > > > Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine > > > > > > [EndPost by Morris Odell ] > > > > > > > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] > > > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > > > > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 17:28:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2IMSkQx022519 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:28:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2IMSkpM022518 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:28:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Helix Biotech, Inc." To: Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:28:37 -0600 Message-ID: <000201c40d38$5e682630$7f010a0a@HelixOffice> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <6BC4DCAD6F0B0F48BC8102EF5D24AFEF012178@svexchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2IMSj3P022513 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu DNA fingerprint is not a term that is current usage. I used the term in quotes to denote similarity to multilocus RFLP methods. You are correct that it would be necessary to conduct extensive validation of the method with plants of the same species within a geographical area. As for unique or individual human DNA profiles, those terms are in common usage and were endorsed by the 1996 NRCII report. I agree with your point on inbreeding. As I pointed out, plants have a diversity of breeding strategies and genetic diversity within the species of interest is key. Alan Friedman, PhD Helix Biotech, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Bentley Atchison Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:42 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) I find it very interesting that scientists in forensic science are still using the terminology ""fingerprint" that is individual"". Given all the arguments against using terms such as "unique" or "individualization" in human DNA testing, surely this is not acceptable terminology now. I assume that before the plant geneticist presents evidence to a court, he/she has done a large amount of work on the population structure of the particular species being investigated (as well as seeing if any other species produce the same RAPD patterns). I assume this would include testing the statistical independence of the loci being detected by the RAPD systems (somewhat difficult I would have thought) and plant population genetics issues such as subpopulation structure and inbreeding. These issues are likely to be different depending on what species is being examined. Dr. Bentley Atchison Manager, Molecular Biology -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Helix Biotech, Inc. Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 7:48 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) That's a good question. Both wild and cultivated plants employ various reproductive strategies. In general, plants that are grown from seed will be genetic individuals that, in principle, can be differentiated using DNA identity testing. Some wild plants, such as Quaking Aspen, reproduce asexually, and are genetically identical (clones). Among cultivated trees, many are grown from genetically unique root stocks but are grafted with genetically identical scions. Since we may be working with diverse species from case to case, it's not practical to identify polymorphic loci and develop specific PCR primers. Rather, RAPD (randomly amplified polymorphic DNA) methods are employed that can generate a pattern or "fingerprint" that is individual. It's similar in principle (but not methodology) to the multi-locus RFLP methods developed by Alec Jeffrey in the mid '80s. Alan Friedman, PhD Helix Biotech, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Patton, David Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:45 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cc: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: Re: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) I have a question about plant DNA. Would anyone like to comment on the value of plant DNA linking a sample to a particular plant. For instance I have read that in the UK leylandii hedges are all clones so, I presume, similar DNA may not narrow it down to one plant. Thoughts? Dave On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:29:57 -0600 "Hughes, Kevin" wrote: > Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some > twigs, maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's > possible, at what cost could the tests be performed. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com [mailto:Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:38 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > > One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if > she can help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what > direction for you > to go in. > If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is ok. > > Jeni Williams > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] > > > This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses > and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software > ---------------------------------------- Patton, David Email: David.Patton@uwe.ac.uk "University of the West of England" This email has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software [EndPost by "Patton, David" ] [EndPost by "Helix Biotech, Inc." ] [EndPost by Bentley Atchison ] [EndPost by "Helix Biotech, Inc." ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 19:35:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2J0ZDW9024319 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:35:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2J0ZDeB024318 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:35:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) In-Reply-To: <000201c40d38$5e682630$7f010a0a@HelixOffice> References: <000201c40d38$5e682630$7f010a0a@HelixOffice> Message-Id: <46CAAEAA-793D-11D8-8EC5-003065498CDA@earthlink.net> From: Norah Rudin Subject: [forens] RE:plant DNA Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:35:09 -0800 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII;format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Kevin, Neither the typical forensic DNA laboratory, nor the general molecular botanist, is equipped to compare plant DNA. You should seek someone who has specifically developed or worked with genetic systems for plants, preferably the particular species in which you are interested. In fact, a number of species-specific STR systems have been developed in recent years. However, several critical differences exist from human or animal DNA systems, both in the molecular biology and genetics of plants. Ideally you want someone who has also had experience applying the system to solve forensic problems. Here are two possibilities Ron Sederoff, professor of forestry, at NCSU has developed specific genetic systems for trees in particular. 2500 Partners II 840 Main Campus Drive Centennial Campus Box 7247 North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC, 27695 phone: 919-513-0011, 919-513-0012 fax: 919-515-7801 email: ron_sederoff@ncsu.edu http://www.cnr.ncsu.edu/for/faculty/sederoff.html You could also try Paul Keim at NAU, although a quick perusal of his website suggests that these days he is focusing more on microorganisms (anthrax) and soy. http://www.kgl.nau.edu/staff/Detail.asp?ID=17 Paul.Keim@nau.edu I have another contact who has developed specific STR systems for tree DNA, but he is in Brazil. If neither of these work out for you, e-mail me and I will give you his contact information. Norah Rudin Norah Rudin, Ph.D. Forensic DNA Consultant norah@forensicdna.com http://www.forensicdna.com http://www.forensicdna.com/Bookstore/index.html ----------------------------------------------- Nature photos: http://www.norahrudin.com ----------------------------------------------- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by Norah Rudin ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 18 19:56:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2J0ukCQ024846 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:56:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2J0uk5U024845 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:56:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:54:57 +1100 From: Bentley Atchison Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6BC4DCAD6F0B0F48BC8102EF5D24AFEF012179@svexchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Thread-Index: AcQNQLlno9hKFCqOSPCaZSDlrhhQLAABau4g content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu As far as I can see NRCII does not endorse the use of the terms "unique" or "individual". I am sure that a number of statisticians in the USA, England and New Zealand could strongly argue a case against using the term "unique". I look forward to seeing publication of your validation studies of plant testing and the evidence that a RAPD pattern is individual (ie., no other plant can have the same RAPD pattern). Regards Bentley Atchison -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Helix Biotech, Inc. Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 9:29 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) DNA fingerprint is not a term that is current usage. I used the term in quotes to denote similarity to multilocus RFLP methods. You are correct that it would be necessary to conduct extensive validation of the method with plants of the same species within a geographical area. As for unique or individual human DNA profiles, those terms are in common usage and were endorsed by the 1996 NRCII report. I agree with your point on inbreeding. As I pointed out, plants have a diversity of breeding strategies and genetic diversity within the species of interest is key. Alan Friedman, PhD Helix Biotech, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Bentley Atchison Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:42 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) I find it very interesting that scientists in forensic science are still using the terminology ""fingerprint" that is individual"". Given all the arguments against using terms such as "unique" or "individualization" in human DNA testing, surely this is not acceptable terminology now. I assume that before the plant geneticist presents evidence to a court, he/she has done a large amount of work on the population structure of the particular species being investigated (as well as seeing if any other species produce the same RAPD patterns). I assume this would include testing the statistical independence of the loci being detected by the RAPD systems (somewhat difficult I would have thought) and plant population genetics issues such as subpopulation structure and inbreeding. These issues are likely to be different depending on what species is being examined. Dr. Bentley Atchison Manager, Molecular Biology -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Helix Biotech, Inc. Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 7:48 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) That's a good question. Both wild and cultivated plants employ various reproductive strategies. In general, plants that are grown from seed will be genetic individuals that, in principle, can be differentiated using DNA identity testing. Some wild plants, such as Quaking Aspen, reproduce asexually, and are genetically identical (clones). Among cultivated trees, many are grown from genetically unique root stocks but are grafted with genetically identical scions. Since we may be working with diverse species from case to case, it's not practical to identify polymorphic loci and develop specific PCR primers. Rather, RAPD (randomly amplified polymorphic DNA) methods are employed that can generate a pattern or "fingerprint" that is individual. It's similar in principle (but not methodology) to the multi-locus RFLP methods developed by Alec Jeffrey in the mid '80s. Alan Friedman, PhD Helix Biotech, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Patton, David Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:45 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Cc: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: Re: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) I have a question about plant DNA. Would anyone like to comment on the value of plant DNA linking a sample to a particular plant. For instance I have read that in the UK leylandii hedges are all clones so, I presume, similar DNA may not narrow it down to one plant. Thoughts? Dave On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:29:57 -0600 "Hughes, Kevin" wrote: > Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some > twigs, maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's > possible, at what cost could the tests be performed. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com [mailto:Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:38 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > > One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if > she can help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what > direction for you > to go in. > If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is ok. > > Jeni Williams > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] > > > This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses > and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software > ---------------------------------------- Patton, David Email: David.Patton@uwe.ac.uk "University of the West of England" This email has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software [EndPost by "Patton, David" ] [EndPost by "Helix Biotech, Inc." ] [EndPost by Bentley Atchison ] [EndPost by "Helix Biotech, Inc." ] [EndPost by Bentley Atchison ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 07:31:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2JCV4wr002621 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:31:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2JCV46R002620 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:31:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <1AE676D5B7BB9C479D08D9278C6DFB5459665E@dc-exchange2> From: "Hughes, Kevin" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] RE:plant DNA Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:30:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Thanks very much for the contacts, I believe I'm drawing closer to answering my question. -----Original Message----- From: Norah Rudin [mailto:nrbiocom@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:35 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] RE:plant DNA Kevin, Neither the typical forensic DNA laboratory, nor the general molecular botanist, is equipped to compare plant DNA. You should seek someone who has specifically developed or worked with genetic systems for plants, preferably the particular species in which you are interested. In fact, a number of species-specific STR systems have been developed in recent years. However, several critical differences exist from human or animal DNA systems, both in the molecular biology and genetics of plants. Ideally you want someone who has also had experience applying the system to solve forensic problems. Here are two possibilities Ron Sederoff, professor of forestry, at NCSU has developed specific genetic systems for trees in particular. 2500 Partners II 840 Main Campus Drive Centennial Campus Box 7247 North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC, 27695 phone: 919-513-0011, 919-513-0012 fax: 919-515-7801 email: ron_sederoff@ncsu.edu http://www.cnr.ncsu.edu/for/faculty/sederoff.html You could also try Paul Keim at NAU, although a quick perusal of his website suggests that these days he is focusing more on microorganisms (anthrax) and soy. http://www.kgl.nau.edu/staff/Detail.asp?ID=17 Paul.Keim@nau.edu I have another contact who has developed specific STR systems for tree DNA, but he is in Brazil. If neither of these work out for you, e-mail me and I will give you his contact information. Norah Rudin Norah Rudin, Ph.D. Forensic DNA Consultant norah@forensicdna.com http://www.forensicdna.com http://www.forensicdna.com/Bookstore/index.html ----------------------------------------------- Nature photos: http://www.norahrudin.com ----------------------------------------------- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by Norah Rudin ] [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 09:17:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2JEHvwK004421 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2JEHvrS004420 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:17:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:17:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Norah Rudin Subject: Re: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:25:55 -0800 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Kevin, Neither the typical forensic DNA laboratory, nor the general molecular botanist, is equipped to compare plant DNA. You should seek someone who has specifically developed or worked with genetic systems for plants, preferably the particular species in which you are interested. Several critical differences exist from human or animal DNA systems, both in the molecular biology and genetics of plants. Ideally you want someone who has also had experience applying the system to solve forensic problems. Here are two possibilities Ron Sederoff, professor of forestry, at NCSU has developed specific genetic system for trees in particular. 2500 Partners II 840 Main Campus Drive Centennial Campus Box 7247 North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC, 27695 phone: 919-513-0011, 919-513-0012 fax: 919-515-7801 email: ron_sederoff@ncsu.edu http://www.cnr.ncsu.edu/for/faculty/sederoff.html You could also try Paul Keim at NAU, although a quick perusal of his website suggests that these days he is focusing more on microorganisms (anthrax) and soy. http://www.kgl.nau.edu/staff/Detail.asp?ID=17 Paul.Keim@nau.edu I have another contact who has done specific forensic work on tree DNA, but he is in Brazil. If neither of these work out for you, e-mail me and I will give you his contact information. Norah Rudin Norah Rudin, Ph.D. Forensic DNA Consultant norah@forensicdna.com http://www.forensicdna.com http://www.forensicdna.com/Bookstore/index.html ----------------------------------------------- Nature photos: http://www.norahrudin.com ----------------------------------------------- On Mar 18, 2004, at 7:29 AM, Hughes, Kevin wrote: > Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some > twigs, > maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's possible, > at > what cost could the tests be performed. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com [mailto:Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:38 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > > One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if > she > can > help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what direction > for > you > to go in. > If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is > ok. > > Jeni Williams > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 17:12:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2JMCYx8015021 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2JMCXwh015020 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:12:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA856649A2@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Hoffman, Judi" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:12:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List: I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open and inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and inventory when they work the case. Any input??? Judi Hoffmann MT Forensic Science Division [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 17:20:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2JMKTe1015431 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2JMKTjM015430 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:20:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <002b01c40e00$5a72fa50$2602a8c0@fyreatr> From: "Donna Brandelli" To: References: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA856649A2@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> Subject: Re: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:20:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2JMKTe1015432 Our property people just check to make sure the receipt is accurate and the seal is intact. Paperwork and documentation has to be accurate. We, as examiners, check the evidence when we process it. We sometimes have to make corrections to the receipt or inventory. Donna Brandelli LASD ----- Original Message ----- From: Hoffman, Judi To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:12 PM Subject: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Dear List: I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open and inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and inventory when they work the case. Any input??? Judi Hoffmann MT Forensic Science Division [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 18:38:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2JNcBOd016677 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:38:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2JNcBwP016676 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:38:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:37:14 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Thread-Index: AcQOAGvYbeS/FZrhQgi9cwnvVVGkXgACpCSA From: "Sincerbeaux, Dave" To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2JNc9RN016671 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Our techs never open evidence envelopes. -----Original Message----- From: Hoffman, Judi [mailto:jhoffman@state.mt.us] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:12 PM To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Dear List: I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open and inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and inventory when they work the case. Any input??? Judi Hoffmann MT Forensic Science Division [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] [EndPost by "Sincerbeaux, Dave" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 19:41:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2K0ffVC018049 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:41:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2K0ffao018048 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:41:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 x-originalarrivaltime: 20 Mar 2004 00:41:39.0360 (UTC) FILETIME=[1B505200:01C40E14] content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: [forens] Great article on forensic science Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:46:19 -0500 Message-ID: <008a01c40e14$c25f5960$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Great article on forensic science Thread-Index: AcQOFMHCR1eNPjgwSSO+Ro94wCecXQ== From: "Robert Parsons" To: , "FORENS-L (statgen) (FORENS-L POSTING)" , , , "Forens-L (Yahoo)" , X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2K0fgVC018050 Here is the best article about forensic science that I have seen in the media in a very long time, perhaps the best ever. Although concentrating on chemical analysis, it gives a very accurate description of what forensic science is all about, and just as importantly, what it is NOT about. The article appears in the current issue of Chemical & Engineering News, published by the American Chemical Society. Kudos to my friends and colleagues Reta Newman and Julia Dolan for doing a great job in their interviews, and to the author for objective reporting without sensationalism. I would take issue with only one small section where a university professor describes the legal standard of "a reasonable degree of scientific certainly" as being: "50-plus %--just a little bit better than a flip of a coin, which isn't a very high standard," Lappas says. "But that is the standard that the law applies. It's not a 95% standard, which scientists are accustomed to dealing with." I doubt many testifying forensic scientists (let alone lawyers) would agree with that interpretation. To a forensic scientist, "a reasonable degree of scientific certainty" means a very high degree of certainty, with little chance for error. If anything, to us "a reasonable degree of scientific certainty" means something close to, if not more than, 95% probability. Here's a link to the excellent article: http://pubs.acs.org/cen/employment/8209/8209employment.html Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 19:43:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2K0hg5I018263 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:43:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2K0hgJa018262 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:43:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:48:22 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <008e01c40e15$0ba63300$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA856649A2@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2004 00:43:42.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[64970490:01C40E14] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Our evidence is inventoried when it is opened by the analyst to work the case. Evidence techs are not permitted to open evidence - in fact, if evidence is brought to our lab in an unsealed condition, the agency rep is required to personally seal the evidence before our tech will accept it (or even touch it). We want evidence techs kept out of the chain so they can stay in the lab and do their jobs, rather than spend half their time in court. The evidence passes through their hands in a legally-sealed condition, so they are exempt from testifying as to chain in this state. Under Florida law, only those with access to the actual evidence need to testify to establish the chain, not everyone who handled the sealed packages the evidence was inside. So long as the officer who sealed the evidence can testify he/she sealed it, and the analyst who opened it can testify the officer's seal was still intact when received, everyone who handled the sealed package in between technically does not have access to the evidence and so does not need to testify to establish the chain. Our evidence techs therefore do not sign for "3 baggies of suspected marijuana," for example, they instead sign for "1 sealed paper bag SAID TO CONTAIN 3 baggies of suspected marijuana." The analyst will determine if there is any discrepancy between that description and what is found when the package is opened for analysis, and reports accordingly. I can't see any good reason for an evidence tech to open evidence. Why subject the evidence to handling by anyone other than the analyst? That just complicates the chain, presents a potential for contamination, and opens you up to all kinds of questions about non-scientist personnel possibly inadvertently "altering" the evidence in some way. In my view, the fewer people with access to the actual evidence (inside the packaging), the better for everyone. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Hoffman, Judi > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:12 PM > To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' > Subject: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? > > Dear List: > > I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open and > inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and inventory > when they work the case. Any input??? > > Judi Hoffmann > MT Forensic Science Division > [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 19:44:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2K0i4Z2018423 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:44:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2K0i4Bi018422 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:44:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:48:44 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <008f01c40e15$18d152d0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <000701c40d2a$57aefd90$7f010a0a@HelixOffice> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2004 00:44:04.0390 (UTC) FILETIME=[71C22460:01C40E14] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The complications in commercial cultivated trees can be even worse than that. In some cases (virtually all citrus fruits, for example), the root stock is a completely different species from the scion it is grafted to. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Helix Biotech, Inc. > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:48 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > That's a good question. Both wild and cultivated plants employ various > reproductive strategies. In general, plants that are grown from seed will > be genetic individuals that, in principle, can be differentiated using DNA > identity testing. Some wild plants, such as Quaking Aspen, reproduce > asexually, and are genetically identical (clones). Among cultivated trees, > many are grown from genetically unique root stocks but are grafted with > genetically identical scions. Since we may be working with diverse species > from case to case, it's not practical to identify polymorphic loci and > develop specific PCR primers. Rather, RAPD (randomly amplified polymorphic > DNA) methods are employed that can generate a pattern or "fingerprint" that > is individual. It's similar in principle (but not methodology) to the > multi-locus RFLP methods developed by Alec Jeffrey in the mid '80s. > Alan Friedman, PhD > Helix Biotech, Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Patton, David > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:45 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Cc: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' > Subject: Re: RE: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > I have a question about plant DNA. Would anyone like to > comment on the value of plant DNA linking a sample to a > particular plant. For instance I have read that in the UK > leylandii hedges are all clones so, I presume, similar DNA > may not narrow it down to one plant. Thoughts? > > Dave > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:29:57 -0600 "Hughes, Kevin" > wrote: > > > Thanks. What we're looking for is someone to match the DNA of some twigs, > > maple, basswood and a variety of pine or fir. And if it's possible, at > > what cost could the tests be performed. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greeneyewilliams@aol.com [mailto:Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:38 AM > > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > Subject: [forens] forens(RE:plant DNA) > > > > > > One of the professors at my school is a botanist and I can ask her if she > > can > > help you. She knows alot about plants and should know what direction for > > you > > to go in. > > If she can help you then I will give her your email address if that is ok. > > > > Jeni Williams > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > [EndPost by Greeneyewilliams@aol.com] > > [EndPost by "Hughes, Kevin" ] > > > > > > This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses and > any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software > > > > ---------------------------------------- > Patton, David > Email: David.Patton@uwe.ac.uk > "University of the West of England" > > > > This email has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected > has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software > > [EndPost by "Patton, David" ] > > > > > [EndPost by "Helix Biotech, Inc." ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 19:44:45 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2K0ijJx018643 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:44:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2K0iiqj018640 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:44:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:49:25 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <009001c40e15$3137f770$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2004 00:44:45.0328 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A28C900:01C40E14] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Ah, the laid-back "wonder of the Down Under," Lynn! Pet dogs are pretty much banned from campuses in the US, at least they have been on every college campus I've ever been to. This is reputedly for "health and safety" (read "liability") reasons. Exceptions are made only for guide dogs, same as in other businesses. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Lynn Coceani > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:18 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? > > Aahhh, this is one of the benefits of working from home! I can't go > anywhere without my German Shepherd, even University. They've put up with > her lying outside the lecture room waiting and have never complained about > her trotting down the hallways behind me. She's saved my life once already > and everyone knows her. If it's cold, she lies inside the lecture theatre. > I'm lucky that our course director is a dog "nut" and brings his own dogs in > on occasions. My dog plays at the lake (on campus ) and chases the ducks > during lunch break. > > She loves it and so do I, and nobody complains because she has a wonderful > temperament, I guess. > > Good Lord, Elizabeth, I don't think I've punched a time clock for twenty > years! I didn't know they still had them! > > Lynn > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of lisa101999@earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 6:32 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: [forens] Pets? In the Lab? > > Don't laugh. A scant five years ago, a clerk filling in as receptionist on a > Saturday brought his dog to the coroner's office to run around the lobby > while we were open to the public. A dog. What do dogs follow? Scents. Does a > coroner's office smell? Does a bear...never mind. > > After that, whenever my boss made threatening rumbles, I'd look her straight > in the eye and say, "Look, Don brought his DOG to work and he's still > employed. Don't expect me to worry about punching out five minutes early." > > Just so I don't get sued, I'll refrain from naming my (former) lab. > > Elizabeth > > PS The comment about punching out is not a figure of speech. We actually > punched manilla cards into a time clock, everyone from the janitor to the > PhD doing DNA analysis. > [EndPost by lisa101999@earthlink.net] > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 19:45:00 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2K0j0Qw018793 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:45:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2K0ixDL018792 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:44:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Pets Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:49:39 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <009101c40e15$397864b0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8501BACBD8@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2004 00:44:59.0171 (UTC) FILETIME=[92690F30:01C40E14] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I can't imagine anyone keeping a pet in the lab. Pets in a laboratory (unless as experimental subjects) would violate basic guidelines pertaining to safety, hygiene, and contamination control. In fact, pets in a workplace setting are pretty much prohibited by every employer I've ever heard of. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Ammen, Alice > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:57 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] Pets > > List members, > > Do any of your labs have policies pertaining to pets in the laboratory? > Input from trace people would be particularly appreciated. > > Alice Ammen > Montana Forensic Science Division > 2679 Palmer Street > Missoula, MT 59808 > > Phone: (406) 329-1154 > Fax: (406) 549-1067 > Email: aammen@state.mt.us > > > [EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 19 21:53:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2K2r5Sw022050 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:53:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2K2r5dP022049 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:53:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: WBowers105@aol.com Message-ID: <166.2d0bf2b1.2d8d0c08@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:52:56 EST Subject: Re: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10705 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In a message dated 3/19/2004 5:21:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jhoffman@state.mt.us writes: > Dear List: > > I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open and > inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and inventory > when they work the case. Any input??? > > Judi Hoffmann > MT Forensic Science Division > [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] > The examiners open all evidence and inventory when working the case. Evid. techs check seals and record time, date, and who received from. William Bowers KSP Laboratory --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by WBowers105@aol.com] From forens-owner Sat Mar 20 07:06:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2KC6oRn028923 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2KC6olB028922 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:06:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <2D2CD87071F9FD4194390846164EB54F03A946@exch004.westchestergov.com> From: "Lakhkar, Bharat" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:06:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Our procedure is quite similar to Donna's. However once the analysts open the case and in case there is a discrepancy between the description on receipt and the actual evidence a " Discrepancy Report is generated by the analyst ". This report is part of the case jacket. Our view is that we should not make any corrections on the evidence receipt. Bharat Lakhkar Westchester County Forensic Laboratory -----Original Message----- From: Donna Brandelli [mailto:fyreatr@cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:20 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Our property people just check to make sure the receipt is accurate and the seal is intact. Paperwork and documentation has to be accurate. We, as examiners, check the evidence when we process it. We sometimes have to make corrections to the receipt or inventory. Donna Brandelli LASD ----- Original Message ----- From: Hoffman, Judi To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:12 PM Subject: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Dear List: I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open and inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and inventory when they work the case. Any input??? Judi Hoffmann MT Forensic Science Division [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] [EndPost by "Lakhkar, Bharat" ] From forens-owner Sat Mar 20 10:18:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2KFIpYW001210 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:18:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2KFIpja001209 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:18:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: WMorris400@aol.com Message-ID: <87.76dcc0b.2d8dbacc@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:18:36 EST Subject: [forens] Re: discrepency reports-evidence To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5106 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Have these reports led to any investigations of tampering or have they resulted in any legal challenges to the admission of evidence in Courts? It seems like a great idea. Wayne Morris Morris-Kopec Forensics, Inc. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by WMorris400@aol.com] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 08:53:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2MDroTB002401 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2MDro59002400 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:53:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <8A8F2B3AD27F454695C6129172BD2E4C02BF801F@dps-sphqasmail1.ps.state.me.us> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:53:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Judi - Our evidence technician is not allowed to open any sealed container. The examiners are responsible for doing the inventory. Hope things are still well in MT. Gretchen Hicks Maine State Police Crime Lab -----Original Message----- From: Hoffman, Judi [mailto:jhoffman@state.mt.us] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:12 PM To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Dear List: I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open and inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and inventory when they work the case. Any input??? Judi Hoffmann MT Forensic Science Division [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 09:45:34 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2MEjYel004282 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:45:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2MEjYlO004281 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:45:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:45:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Ganbold from Mongolia Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:19:31 +0300 Reply-To: =?koi8-r?Q?=22?=Ganbold Suren=?koi8-r?Q?=22=20?= Dear collegues, I m writing from Center of Forensic Medical Assesment of Mongolia. We need to cooperate in these fields: - STR loci (TH01, TPOX, Amelogenin, CSF1PO, vWA-FESFPS-F13A01, D16S539-D7S820, D13S317) for use in forensic casework - Y chromosome STR marker systems Best wishes, Waiting for reply, Dr.Ganbold ganbold@mail.ru [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 10:43:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2MFhSIu005611 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:43:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2MFhS5C005610 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:43:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:43:03 -0800 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2MFhSIu005612 Judi, Our evidence technicians on certain occasions will open evidence received in our Evidence Intake Section. Most cases, it is wet bloody clothing that we are charged with drying and inventorying. Other cases deal with drying and repackaging putrefied evidence for crime scenes. This most often is victim's clothing. These are special cases and the evidence technicians have been trained to deal with blood borne pathogens as well as preserving the evidence for DNA and trace evidence e analysis. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> dave.sincerbeaux@isp.state.id.us 3/19/2004 3:37:14 PM >>> Our techs never open evidence envelopes. -----Original Message----- From: Hoffman, Judi [mailto:jhoffman@state.mt.us] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:12 PM To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' Subject: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Dear List: I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open and inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and inventory when they work the case. Any input??? Judi Hoffmann MT Forensic Science Division [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] [EndPost by "Sincerbeaux, Dave" ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 14:56:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2MJudwl010681 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:56:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2MJudYl010680 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:56:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:56:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Sears, Robert" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:17:54 -0500 Our Evidence techs only log the evidence in as indicated on the inventory sheet. The analyst is responsible for the initial inventory and justification with the login paper work. Robert Sears SC Law Enforcement Division > -----Original Message----- > From: Hoffman, Judi [SMTP:jhoffman@state.mt.us] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:12 PM > To: 'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu' > Subject: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? > > Dear List: > > I am trying to get a feel for how many labs have the evidence techs open > and > inventory evidence when it comes in vs. the examiners who open and > inventory > when they work the case. Any input??? > > Judi Hoffmann > MT Forensic Science Division > [EndPost by "Hoffman, Judi" ] [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 17:33:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2MMXkcI014676 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:33:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2MMXkJm014675 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:33:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:33:07 -0800 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Subject: [forens] CSI Television Show Honoroed by Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2MMXkcI014677 Who would have thought? Just a little fodder for a Monday afternoon. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 17:59:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2MMxsGa015528 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:59:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2MMxskK015527 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:59:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040322225954.82106.qmail@web20510.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:59:54 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Abercrombie Subject: Re: [forens] CSI Television Show Honoroed by Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Greg, Was there supposed to be a link in your email? I sure would like to know what forensic science organizations 'honored' that show. Tom Abercrombie Oakland Police Department Crime Laboratory Oakland, California --- Greg Laskowski wrote: > Who would have thought? Just a little fodder for a > Monday afternoon. > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic > Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > message/rfc822 > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" > ] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html [EndPost by Tom Abercrombie ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 18:22:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2MNMblo016138 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:22:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2MNMbiL016137 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:22:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:22:20 -0800 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Subject: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2MNMblo016139 Tom, I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 18:39:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2MNdZhg016678 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:39:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2MNdZ9D016677 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:39:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:38:37 -0800 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2MNdahg016679 Tom and Others, I had to cut an pace the press release in to the main message. Here it is below: Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations A coalition of national forensic science organizations: American Academy of Forensic Sciences American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors International Association for Identification National Association of Medical Examiners FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TV'sTop-Rated Drama CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Honored by National Forensic Group Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions Also Recognized for Contribution Washington DC - March 22, 2004 - The Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO) is honoring the number-one rated drama CSI and Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions at a special Forensics Technology Fair this Thursday on Capitol Hill. "CSI demonstrates the power of television, when used properly, to educate the public about important issues," said Joseph Polski, Chair, Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO). "Its status as the top-rated show on television is an indication that viewers are intrigued by the challenges faced by the forensics community." CFSO is saluting CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for its role in educating the public on the importance of forensics. CSI's star Robert David Hall, who portrays medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, will make a special appearance at the 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair. CFSO will also present Senator Sessions (R-AL) with the first "Friend of Forensics" award for his help in securing Congressional support for forensic science. The Forensics technology fair will feature hands-on, technology demonstrations on a broad array of equipment and forensic science techniques ranging from DNA and drug analysis, to forensic biology, fingerprinting, document examination, crime scene investigation, and more. In addition, several leading members of the forensics community will be on hand to meet with you, answer your questions and provide valuable insights on these amazing tools now finding increasing value in modern crime fighting and prevention. The 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair takes place Thursday, March 25, 3pm-5pm followed by a reception from 5pm-7pm. The event will be held in the Hart Senate Office Building, Room 216. About CFSO CFSO is an informal association of four forensic science professional organizations: American Academy of Forensic Sciences; American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors; International Association for Identification; and National Association of Medical Examiners. These professional organizations together represent almost 11,000 forensic science professionals across the United States. The mission of the CFSO is to influence public policy at the national level and make a compelling case for greater federal funding for public crime laboratories and medical examiner offices. In the past CFSO members have met with elected officials and their staffs in the Congress and the Administration to press its concerns. The CFSO has also helped to coordinate two Congressional hearing on forensic science before the Senate Judiciary Committee. ### Press Contact: Melissa Milburn Melissa@milburncommunications.com 206-972-9096 Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> glaskows@co.kern.ca.us 3/22/2004 3:22:20 PM >>> Tom, I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] From forens-owner Mon Mar 22 19:27:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2N0RCIl017446 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:27:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2N0RCaZ017444 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:27:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <001601c4106d$92897c60$1abde380@davelaptop> From: "Dave Khey" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:27:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Scanned-By: CNS Open Systems Group (http://open-systems.ufl.edu/services/virus-scan/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Two words: Oy vey Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release > Tom and Others, > > I had to cut an pace the press release in to the main message. Here it is below: > > Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > A coalition of national forensic science organizations: > American Academy of Forensic Sciences > American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors > International Association for Identification > National Association of Medical Examiners > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > TV'sTop-Rated Drama CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Honored by National Forensic Group > > Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions Also Recognized for Contribution > > > Washington DC - March 22, 2004 - The Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO) is honoring the number-one rated drama CSI and Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions at a special Forensics Technology Fair this Thursday on Capitol Hill. > > "CSI demonstrates the power of television, when used properly, to educate the public about important issues," said Joseph Polski, Chair, Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO). "Its status as the top-rated show on television is an indication that viewers are intrigued by the challenges faced by the forensics community." > > CFSO is saluting CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for its role in educating the public on the importance of forensics. CSI's star Robert David Hall, who portrays medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, will make a special appearance at the 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair. CFSO will also present Senator Sessions (R-AL) with the first "Friend of Forensics" award for his help in securing Congressional support for forensic science. > > The Forensics technology fair will feature hands-on, technology demonstrations on a broad array of equipment and forensic science techniques ranging from DNA and drug analysis, to forensic biology, fingerprinting, document examination, crime scene investigation, and more. In addition, several leading members of the forensics community will be on hand to meet with you, answer your questions and provide valuable insights on these amazing tools now finding increasing value in modern crime fighting and prevention. > > The 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair takes place Thursday, March 25, 3pm-5pm followed by a reception from 5pm-7pm. The event will be held in the Hart Senate Office Building, Room 216. > > About CFSO > CFSO is an informal association of four forensic science professional organizations: American Academy of Forensic Sciences; American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors; International Association for Identification; and National Association of Medical Examiners. These professional organizations together represent almost 11,000 forensic science professionals across the United States. The mission of the CFSO is to influence public policy at the national level and make a compelling case for greater federal funding for public crime laboratories and medical examiner offices. In the past CFSO members have met with elected officials and their staffs in the Congress and the Administration to press its concerns. The CFSO has also helped to coordinate two Congressional hearing on forensic science before the Senate Judiciary Committee. > > ### > Press Contact: > Melissa Milburn > Melissa@milburncommunications.com > 206-972-9096 > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > >>> glaskows@co.kern.ca.us 3/22/2004 3:22:20 PM >>> > Tom, > > I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. > > > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/msword > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > [EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 23 00:20:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2N5KjqA022724 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:20:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2N5KjBC022723 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:20:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: From: "Ashton, Jason" To: "forens@statgen. ncsu. edu (E-mail)" Subject: [forens] Shoeprint databases Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:23:08 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu We are currently reviewing existing shoeprint databases with a view to purchase the one most suitable. We would like to compare a range of database - manual coding systems vs auto feature extraction databases. Does anyone have/know of any trial/demo versions of existing databases that would be suitable for our trial? Thank you Jason ------------------------------------------- Jason Ashton Information & Research Services ESR: Institute of Environmental Science & Research Private bag 92021, Hampstead Rd, Mt Albert Auckland, New Zealand ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ WARNING: This email and any attachments may be confidential and/or privileged. They are intended for the addressee only and are not to be read, used, copied or disseminated by anyone receiving them in error. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return email and delete this message and any attachments. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the official views of the Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited (ESR). The recipient of this e-mail should be aware that this e-mail and any attachments to it has been scanned before despatch but that it might not be free from viruses in their various forms. ESR strongly recommends that the recipient uses anti-virus software to screen all e-mails received externally. ESR does not accept any liability for any loss or damage that may occur as a result of the transmission of this e-mail to the recipient. Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited http://www.esr.cri.nz ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [EndPost by "Ashton, Jason" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 23 09:41:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2NEfXMb003484 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:41:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2NEfXo0003483 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:41:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:42:02 -0700 Message-ID: <44C9E6938137A54AB9AAA9723DE70E9F011A6270@admnts61.co.arapahoe.co.us> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Thread-Index: AcQQbuMVo+2zDntmSquyo2KMzXGnsAAdgZOg From: "Jeff Baker" To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2NEfW8d003478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu If you can't beat 'em....join 'em (?) -----Original Message----- From: Dave Khey [mailto:dkhey@ufl.edu] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:27 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Two words: Oy vey Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release > Tom and Others, > > I had to cut an pace the press release in to the main message. Here it is below: > > Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > A coalition of national forensic science organizations: > American Academy of Forensic Sciences > American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors > International Association for Identification > National Association of Medical Examiners > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > TV'sTop-Rated Drama CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Honored by National Forensic Group > > Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions Also Recognized for Contribution > > > Washington DC - March 22, 2004 - The Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO) is honoring the number-one rated drama CSI and Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions at a special Forensics Technology Fair this Thursday on Capitol Hill. > > "CSI demonstrates the power of television, when used properly, to educate the public about important issues," said Joseph Polski, Chair, Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO). "Its status as the top-rated show on television is an indication that viewers are intrigued by the challenges faced by the forensics community." > > CFSO is saluting CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for its role in educating the public on the importance of forensics. CSI's star Robert David Hall, who portrays medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, will make a special appearance at the 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair. CFSO will also present Senator Sessions (R-AL) with the first "Friend of Forensics" award for his help in securing Congressional support for forensic science. > > The Forensics technology fair will feature hands-on, technology demonstrations on a broad array of equipment and forensic science techniques ranging from DNA and drug analysis, to forensic biology, fingerprinting, document examination, crime scene investigation, and more. In addition, several leading members of the forensics community will be on hand to meet with you, answer your questions and provide valuable insights on these amazing tools now finding increasing value in modern crime fighting and prevention. > > The 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair takes place Thursday, March 25, 3pm-5pm followed by a reception from 5pm-7pm. The event will be held in the Hart Senate Office Building, Room 216. > > About CFSO > CFSO is an informal association of four forensic science professional organizations: American Academy of Forensic Sciences; American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors; International Association for Identification; and National Association of Medical Examiners. These professional organizations together represent almost 11,000 forensic science professionals across the United States. The mission of the CFSO is to influence public policy at the national level and make a compelling case for greater federal funding for public crime laboratories and medical examiner offices. In the past CFSO members have met with elected officials and their staffs in the Congress and the Administration to press its concerns. The CFSO has also helped to coordinate two Congressional hearing on forensic science before the Senate Judiciary Committee. > > ### > Press Contact: > Melissa Milburn > Melissa@milburncommunications.com > 206-972-9096 > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > >>> glaskows@co.kern.ca.us 3/22/2004 3:22:20 PM >>> > Tom, > > I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. > > > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/msword > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > [EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] [EndPost by "Jeff Baker" ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 23 10:24:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2NFOuAb004840 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:24:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2NFOuV1004839 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:24:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.12 February 13, 2003 Message-ID: From: EColquhoun@monroecounty.gov Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:25:42 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MCNOTES4/Monroe(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 03/23/2004 10:25:49 AM, Serialize complete at 03/23/2004 10:25:49 AM X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Ditto Ellyn Colquhoun Monroe County Crime Lab Rochester, NY 14614 585.428.5678 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by EColquhoun@monroecounty.gov] From forens-owner Tue Mar 23 10:40:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2NFevhX005455 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:40:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2NFevCx005454 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:40:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Who inventories your evidence??? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.12 February 13, 2003 Message-ID: From: EColquhoun@monroecounty.gov Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:41:44 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on MCNOTES4/Monroe(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 03/23/2004 10:41:50 AM, Serialize complete at 03/23/2004 10:41:50 AM X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sorry, the portion I was replying "Ditto" to was removed............... Our evidence tech is responsible for taking in the evidence, checking packaging and seals, ensuring the submittal form is complete, entering the info into LIMS, and generating the case folder. He then places the evidence in the appropriate storage area and is responsible for the return of evidence to the submitting agency. The evidence tech does not open any of the evidence submitted. Ellyn Colquhoun Monroe County Crime Lab Rochester, NY 14614 585.428.5678 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by EColquhoun@monroecounty.gov] From forens-owner Tue Mar 23 15:27:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2NKR7O5011716 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:27:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2NKR7bL011715 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:27:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:27:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jamie" Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Although personnaly I can not stand the show, it has done for forensic science what Top gun did for the military. It has made the field glamorous. I know that enrollment at CSU-Pueblo has almost doubled in the chemistry dept since we added a class in forensics. What we must do as working criminalists, fornesic chemists, or whatever we call ourselves is educate the public and our students as to what forensics really is. I have never found picking up dead babies or laying in a pool of blood to get that important crime scene photo all that glamorous myself. James Crippin, Director Western Forensic Law Enforcement Training Center CSU-Pueblo, Chemistry Dept. 719-549-2194 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release > Tom and Others, > > I had to cut an pace the press release in to the main message. Here it is below: > > Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > A coalition of national forensic science organizations: > American Academy of Forensic Sciences > American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors > International Association for Identification > National Association of Medical Examiners > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > TV'sTop-Rated Drama CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Honored by National Forensic Group > > Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions Also Recognized for Contribution > > > Washington DC - March 22, 2004 - The Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO) is honoring the number-one rated drama CSI and Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions at a special Forensics Technology Fair this Thursday on Capitol Hill. > > "CSI demonstrates the power of television, when used properly, to educate the public about important issues," said Joseph Polski, Chair, Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO). "Its status as the top-rated show on television is an indication that viewers are intrigued by the challenges faced by the forensics community." > > CFSO is saluting CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for its role in educating the public on the importance of forensics. CSI's star Robert David Hall, who portrays medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, will make a special appearance at the 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair. CFSO will also present Senator Sessions (R-AL) with the first "Friend of Forensics" award for his help in securing Congressional support for forensic science. > > The Forensics technology fair will feature hands-on, technology demonstrations on a broad array of equipment and forensic science techniques ranging from DNA and drug analysis, to forensic biology, fingerprinting, document examination, crime scene investigation, and more. In addition, several leading members of the forensics community will be on hand to meet with you, answer your questions and provide valuable insights on these amazing tools now finding increasing value in modern crime fighting and prevention. > > The 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair takes place Thursday, March 25, 3pm-5pm followed by a reception from 5pm-7pm. The event will be held in the Hart Senate Office Building, Room 216. > > About CFSO > CFSO is an informal association of four forensic science professional organizations: American Academy of Forensic Sciences; American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors; International Association for Identification; and National Association of Medical Examiners. These professional organizations together represent almost 11,000 forensic science professionals across the United States. The mission of the CFSO is to influence public policy at the national level and make a compelling case for greater federal funding for public crime laboratories and medical examiner offices. In the past CFSO members have met with elected officials and their staffs in the Congress and the Administration to press its concerns. The CFSO has also helped to coordinate two Congressional hearing on forensic science before the Senate Judiciary Committee. > > ### > Press Contact: > Melissa Milburn > Melissa@milburncommunications.com > 206-972-9096 > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > >>> glaskows@co.kern.ca.us 3/22/2004 3:22:20 PM >>> > Tom, > > I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. > > > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/msword > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 24 10:16:41 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2OFGf1U027362 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:16:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2OFGf0Y027361 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:16:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:14:46 -0800 From: "CHRISTOPHER BREYER" To: Subject: Re: [forens] forwarded message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hmmm. As I recall, in the Top Gun plot, the likeable, affable, capable buddy dies in a tragic accident, and the angst-ridden prima-donna goes on to become the hero. I'll pass, thank you. Chris Breyer >>> cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu 03/23/04 12:27PM >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jamie" Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Although personnaly I can not stand the show, it has done for forensic science what Top gun did for the military. It has made the field glamorous. I know that enrollment at CSU-Pueblo has almost doubled in the chemistry dept since we added a class in forensics. What we must do as working criminalists, fornesic chemists, or whatever we call ourselves is educate the public and our students as to what forensics really is. I have never found picking up dead babies or laying in a pool of blood to get that important crime scene photo all that glamorous myself. James Crippin, Director Western Forensic Law Enforcement Training Center CSU-Pueblo, Chemistry Dept. 719-549-2194 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release > Tom and Others, > > I had to cut an pace the press release in to the main message. Here it is below: > > Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > A coalition of national forensic science organizations: > American Academy of Forensic Sciences > American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors > International Association for Identification > National Association of Medical Examiners > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > TV'sTop-Rated Drama CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Honored by National Forensic Group > > Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions Also Recognized for Contribution > > > Washington DC - March 22, 2004 - The Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO) is honoring the number-one rated drama CSI and Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions at a special Forensics Technology Fair this Thursday on Capitol Hill. > > "CSI demonstrates the power of television, when used properly, to educate the public about important issues," said Joseph Polski, Chair, Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO). "Its status as the top-rated show on television is an indication that viewers are intrigued by the challenges faced by the forensics community." > > CFSO is saluting CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for its role in educating the public on the importance of forensics. CSI's star Robert David Hall, who portrays medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, will make a special appearance at the 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair. CFSO will also present Senator Sessions (R-AL) with the first "Friend of Forensics" award for his help in securing Congressional support for forensic science. > > The Forensics technology fair will feature hands-on, technology demonstrations on a broad array of equipment and forensic science techniques ranging from DNA and drug analysis, to forensic biology, fingerprinting, document examination, crime scene investigation, and more. In addition, several leading members of the forensics community will be on hand to meet with you, answer your questions and provide valuable insights on these amazing tools now finding increasing value in modern crime fighting and prevention. > > The 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair takes place Thursday, March 25, 3pm-5pm followed by a reception from 5pm-7pm. The event will be held in the Hart Senate Office Building, Room 216. > > About CFSO > CFSO is an informal association of four forensic science professional organizations: American Academy of Forensic Sciences; American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors; International Association for Identification; and National Association of Medical Examiners. These professional organizations together represent almost 11,000 forensic science professionals across the United States. The mission of the CFSO is to influence public policy at the national level and make a compelling case for greater federal funding for public crime laboratories and medical examiner offices. In the past CFSO members have met with elected officials and their staffs in the Congress and the Administration to press its concerns. The CFSO has also helped to coordinate two Congressional hearing on forensic science before the Senate Judiciary Committee. > > ### > Press Contact: > Melissa Milburn > Melissa@milburncommunications.com > 206-972-9096 > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > >>> glaskows@co.kern.ca.us 3/22/2004 3:22:20 PM >>> > Tom, > > I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. > > > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/msword > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] [EndPost by "CHRISTOPHER BREYER" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 24 10:49:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2OFnaZg028446 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:49:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2OFnZcE028445 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:49:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040324154125.87050.qmail@web60203.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:41:25 -0800 (PST) From: Keli Masten Subject: Re: [forens] forwarded message To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Amen to that, Chris! CHRISTOPHER BREYER wrote:Hmmm. As I recall, in the Top Gun plot, the likeable, affable, capable buddy dies in a tragic accident, and the angst-ridden prima-donna goes on to become the hero. I'll pass, thank you. Chris Breyer >>> cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu 03/23/04 12:27PM >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jamie" Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Although personnaly I can not stand the show, it has done for forensic science what Top gun did for the military. It has made the field glamorous. I know that enrollment at CSU-Pueblo has almost doubled in the chemistry dept since we added a class in forensics. What we must do as working criminalists, fornesic chemists, or whatever we call ourselves is educate the public and our students as to what forensics really is. I have never found picking up dead babies or laying in a pool of blood to get that important crime scene photo all that glamorous myself. James Crippin, Director Western Forensic Law Enforcement Training Center CSU-Pueblo, Chemistry Dept. 719-549-2194 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release > Tom and Others, > > I had to cut an pace the press release in to the main message. Here it is below: > > Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > A coalition of national forensic science organizations: > American Academy of Forensic Sciences > American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors > International Association for Identification > National Association of Medical Examiners > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > TV'sTop-Rated Drama CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Honored by National Forensic Group > > Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions Also Recognized for Contribution > > > Washington DC - March 22, 2004 - The Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO) is honoring the number-one rated drama CSI and Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions at a special Forensics Technology Fair this Thursday on Capitol Hill. > > "CSI demonstrates the power of television, when used properly, to educate the public about important issues," said Joseph Polski, Chair, Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO). "Its status as the top-rated show on television is an indication that viewers are intrigued by the challenges faced by the forensics community." > > CFSO is saluting CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for its role in educating the public on the importance of forensics. CSI's star Robert David Hall, who portrays medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, will make a special appearance at the 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair. CFSO will also present Senator Sessions (R-AL) with the first "Friend of Forensics" award for his help in securing Congressional support for forensic science. > > The Forensics technology fair will feature hands-on, technology demonstrations on a broad array of equipment and forensic science techniques ranging from DNA and drug analysis, to forensic biology, fingerprinting, document examination, crime scene investigation, and more. In addition, several leading members of the forensics community will be on hand to meet with you, answer your questions and provide valuable insights on these amazing tools now finding increasing value in modern crime fighting and prevention. > > The 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair takes place Thursday, March 25, 3pm-5pm followed by a reception from 5pm-7pm. The event will be held in the Hart Senate Office Building, Room 216. > > About CFSO > CFSO is an informal association of four forensic science professional organizations: American Academy of Forensic Sciences; American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors; International Association for Identification; and National Association of Medical Examiners. These professional organizations together represent almost 11,000 forensic science professionals across the United States. The mission of the CFSO is to influence public policy at the national level and make a compelling case for greater federal funding for public crime laboratories and medical examiner offices. In the past CFSO members have met with elected officials and their staffs in the Congress and the Administration to press its concerns. The CFSO has also helped to coordinate two Congressional hearing on forensic science before the Senate Judiciary Committee. > > ### > Press Contact: > Melissa Milburn > Melissa@milburncommunications.com > 206-972-9096 > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > >>> glaskows@co.kern.ca.us 3/22/2004 3:22:20 PM >>> > Tom, > > I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. > > > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/msword > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] [EndPost by "CHRISTOPHER BREYER" ] Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Keli Masten ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 24 11:16:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2OGGP47029220 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:16:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2OGGPVF029219 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:16:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [forens] forwarded message Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:16:19 -0500 Message-ID: <6834EDC78F56C4439EF5D9B530B7F785197B06@ATF-HQ-EXMB01.ad.msnet.atf.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] forwarded message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Index: AcQRumEhgkzCPPErRj6FBzGjpo+48wAANwrQ From: "Thompson, Robert M." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Mar 2004 16:16:19.0900 (UTC) FILETIME=[57929FC0:01C411BB] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2OGGP27029214 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Some days I feel I went into a "flat spin" too! Robert M. Thompson Firearms and Toolmark Examiner ATF Forensic Science Laboratory-Washington 6000 Ammendale Road Ammendale, MD 20705 Desk: (240) 264-3846 FAX: (240) 264-1498 Cell: (301) 980-5447 Robert.Thompson@atf.gov -----Original Message----- From: Keli Masten [mailto:kelibeli80@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:41 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] forwarded message Amen to that, Chris! CHRISTOPHER BREYER wrote:Hmmm. As I recall, in the Top Gun plot, the likeable, affable, capable buddy dies in a tragic accident, and the angst-ridden prima-donna goes on to become the hero. I'll pass, thank you. Chris Breyer >>> cbasten@statgen.ncsu.edu 03/23/04 12:27PM >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jamie" Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Although personnaly I can not stand the show, it has done for forensic science what Top gun did for the military. It has made the field glamorous. I know that enrollment at CSU-Pueblo has almost doubled in the chemistry dept since we added a class in forensics. What we must do as working criminalists, fornesic chemists, or whatever we call ourselves is educate the public and our students as to what forensics really is. I have never found picking up dead babies or laying in a pool of blood to get that important crime scene photo all that glamorous myself. James Crippin, Director Western Forensic Law Enforcement Training Center CSU-Pueblo, Chemistry Dept. 719-549-2194 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release > Tom and Others, > > I had to cut an pace the press release in to the main message. Here it is below: > > Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > A coalition of national forensic science organizations: > American Academy of Forensic Sciences > American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors > International Association for Identification > National Association of Medical Examiners > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > TV'sTop-Rated Drama CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Honored by National Forensic Group > > Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions Also Recognized for Contribution > > > Washington DC - March 22, 2004 - The Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO) is honoring the number-one rated drama CSI and Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions at a special Forensics Technology Fair this Thursday on Capitol Hill. > > "CSI demonstrates the power of television, when used properly, to educate the public about important issues," said Joseph Polski, Chair, Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO). "Its status as the top-rated show on television is an indication that viewers are intrigued by the challenges faced by the forensics community." > > CFSO is saluting CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for its role in educating the public on the importance of forensics. CSI's star Robert David Hall, who portrays medical examiner Dr. Al Robbins, will make a special appearance at the 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair. CFSO will also present Senator Sessions (R-AL) with the first "Friend of Forensics" award for his help in securing Congressional support for forensic science. > > The Forensics technology fair will feature hands-on, technology demonstrations on a broad array of equipment and forensic science techniques ranging from DNA and drug analysis, to forensic biology, fingerprinting, document examination, crime scene investigation, and more. In addition, several leading members of the forensics community will be on hand to meet with you, answer your questions and provide valuable insights on these amazing tools now finding increasing value in modern crime fighting and prevention. > > The 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair takes place Thursday, March 25, 3pm-5pm followed by a reception from 5pm-7pm. The event will be held in the Hart Senate Office Building, Room 216. > > About CFSO > CFSO is an informal association of four forensic science professional organizations: American Academy of Forensic Sciences; American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors; International Association for Identification; and National Association of Medical Examiners. These professional organizations together represent almost 11,000 forensic science professionals across the United States. The mission of the CFSO is to influence public policy at the national level and make a compelling case for greater federal funding for public crime laboratories and medical examiner offices. In the past CFSO members have met with elected officials and their staffs in the Congress and the Administration to press its concerns. The CFSO has also helped to coordinate two Congressional hearing on forensic science before the Senate Judiciary Committee. > > ### > Press Contact: > Melissa Milburn > Melissa@milburncommunications.com > 206-972-9096 > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > >>> glaskows@co.kern.ca.us 3/22/2004 3:22:20 PM >>> > Tom, > > I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. > > > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/msword > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] [EndPost by "CHRISTOPHER BREYER" ] Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Keli Masten ] [EndPost by "Thompson, Robert M." ] From forens-owner Thu Mar 25 18:47:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2PNlecE004750 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:47:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2PNleoI004749 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:47:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: LamarM@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:47:31 EST Subject: [forens] Good Read To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5016 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I have just finished reading "Pointing From the Grave" by Samantha Weinberg. This is an enjoyable account of how the techniques used in DNA examinations were developed and how they played out in a very old murder case. Very enjoyable. Lamar Miller Forensic Document Examiner, Retired Hendersonville, NC --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by LamarM@aol.com] From forens-owner Fri Mar 26 11:04:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2QG4Rk9024237 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:04:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2QG4RwL024236 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:04:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [156.42.68.23] X-Originating-Email: [mkupf@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mkupf@hotmail.com From: "Melissa Kupferberg" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] expert in swab drug testing for attorney Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:02:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2004 16:02:28.0745 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCFDEF90:01C4134B] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I have recently received a request from an attorney for referral to an expert in swab drug testing? Any recommendations are appreciated.... Thanks in advance, Melissa Kupferberg _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ [EndPost by "Melissa Kupferberg" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 26 18:44:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2QNiAw8003502 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2QNiAvb003501 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:44:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Shoeprint databases Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:48:56 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00a001c4138c$e7166410$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2004 23:44:10.0132 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C4E2540:01C4138C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu You may be able to find some using these two web sites. They offer much resource information on shoeprint comparison. http://members.aol.com/varfee/mastssite/home.html http://www.intermin.fi/intermin/hankkeet/wgm/home.nsf/ Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Ashton, Jason > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:23 AM > To: forens@statgen. ncsu. edu (E-mail) > Subject: [forens] Shoeprint databases > > We are currently reviewing existing shoeprint databases with a view to > purchase the one most suitable. We would like to compare a range of database > - manual coding systems vs auto feature extraction databases. > > Does anyone have/know of any trial/demo versions of existing databases that > would be suitable for our trial? > > Thank you > Jason > ------------------------------------------- > Jason Ashton > Information & Research Services > ESR: Institute of Environmental Science & Research > Private bag 92021, Hampstead Rd, Mt Albert > Auckland, New Zealand > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +++++++++ > WARNING: This email and any attachments may be confidential and/or > privileged. They are intended for the addressee only and are not to be read, > used, copied or disseminated by anyone receiving them in error. If you are > not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return email and > delete this message and any attachments. The views expressed in this email > are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the official views of > the Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited (ESR). > > The recipient of this e-mail should be aware that this e-mail and any > attachments to it has been scanned before despatch but that it might not be > free from viruses in their various forms. ESR strongly recommends that the > recipient uses anti-virus software to screen all e-mails received > externally. ESR does not accept any liability for any loss or damage that > may occur as a result of the transmission of this e-mail to the recipient. > > Institute of Environmental Science & Research Limited > http://www.esr.cri.nz > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +++++++++ > > > [EndPost by "Ashton, Jason" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 26 18:45:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2QNjIqJ003557 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2QNjI4j003556 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:45:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Fwd: Press Release Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:50:04 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00a101c4138d$0fda2e90$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2004 23:45:18.0507 (UTC) FILETIME=[650F57B0:01C4138C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu My initial reaction (other than "pardon me, while I go lose my lunch") was incredulity, but then I realized that the CSFO was "honoring" CSI for the positive publicity it has generated for our profession, and for the assistance that kind of publicity lends to gaining public support for desperately needed increased funding. I'm sure the CSFO leadership was not in any way endorsing the illegitimately claimed "realism" or "accuracy" of the show (which contains neither realism nor accuracy). The move may be highly politic, and perhaps even justified for that reason, but I confess I am disappointed that the Consortium leaders chose to ignore the very real harm that the show is doing with regard to the public's understanding of how forensic science actually works and contributes to the criminal justice system. Perhaps they felt it was best to acknowledge whatever help we can get now (and so encourage more help in the future) to address the serious shortfalls in forensic science funding, and then deal with damage control of the show's misinformation later. I'm not sure I agree with that decision (in fact, I'm pretty sure I don't), but I can respect it. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of Greg Laskowski > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 6:39 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: [forens] Fwd: Press Release > > Tom and Others, > > I had to cut an pace the press release in to the main message. Here it is below: > > Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > A coalition of national forensic science organizations: > American Academy of Forensic Sciences > American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors > International Association for Identification > National Association of Medical Examiners > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > TV'sTop-Rated Drama CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Honored by National Forensic > Group > > Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions Also Recognized for Contribution > > > Washington DC - March 22, 2004 - The Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > (CFSO) is honoring the number-one rated drama CSI and Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions at > a special Forensics Technology Fair this Thursday on Capitol Hill. > > "CSI demonstrates the power of television, when used properly, to educate the public about > important issues," said Joseph Polski, Chair, Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations > (CFSO). "Its status as the top-rated show on television is an indication that viewers are > intrigued by the challenges faced by the forensics community." > > CFSO is saluting CSI: Crime Scene Investigation for its role in educating the public on the > importance of forensics. CSI's star Robert David Hall, who portrays medical examiner Dr. > Al Robbins, will make a special appearance at the 2004 Forensic Science Congressional > Technology Fair. CFSO will also present Senator Sessions (R-AL) with the first "Friend of > Forensics" award for his help in securing Congressional support for forensic science. > > The Forensics technology fair will feature hands-on, technology demonstrations on a broad > array of equipment and forensic science techniques ranging from DNA and drug analysis, to > forensic biology, fingerprinting, document examination, crime scene investigation, and > more. In addition, several leading members of the forensics community will be on hand to > meet with you, answer your questions and provide valuable insights on these amazing tools > now finding increasing value in modern crime fighting and prevention. > > The 2004 Forensic Science Congressional Technology Fair takes place Thursday, March > 25, 3pm-5pm followed by a reception from 5pm-7pm. The event will be held in the Hart > Senate Office Building, Room 216. > > About CFSO > CFSO is an informal association of four forensic science professional organizations: > American Academy of Forensic Sciences; American Society of Crime Laboratory > Directors; International Association for Identification; and National Association of Medical > Examiners. These professional organizations together represent almost 11,000 forensic > science professionals across the United States. The mission of the CFSO is to influence > public policy at the national level and make a compelling case for greater federal funding > for public crime laboratories and medical examiner offices. In the past CFSO members > have met with elected officials and their staffs in the Congress and the Administration to > press its concerns. The CFSO has also helped to coordinate two Congressional hearing on > forensic science before the Senate Judiciary Committee. > > ### > Press Contact: > Melissa Milburn > Melissa@milburncommunications.com > 206-972-9096 > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > >>> glaskows@co.kern.ca.us 3/22/2004 3:22:20 PM >>> > Tom, > > I am attaching the press release as a Word Documetn attachment. I have no links. The > organization is the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations. > > > > Gregory E. Laskowski > Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit > Kern County District Attorney > Forensic Science Division > 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor > Bakersfield, CA 93301 > Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 > Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 > Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 > e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/msword > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] > > > BEGIN:VCARD > VERSION:2.1 > X-GWTYPE:USER > FN:Greg Laskowski > TEL;WORK:868-5659 > ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division > TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 > EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN > N:Laskowski;Greg > TITLE:Supervising Criminalist > END:VCARD > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/plain (text body -- kept) > --- > [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Mar 26 18:49:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2QNnNoe004195 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:49:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2QNnN1L004194 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:49:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Re: discrepancy reports-evidence Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:54:08 -0500 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00a201c4138d$a142e9d0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <87.76dcc0b.2d8dbacc@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2004 23:49:22.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[F67A0EC0:01C4138C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Defense attorneys don't need anything substantial to challenge admission - they are quite adept at grasping at the most tenuous of straws (which is, I suppose, what they are being paid to do when they have nothing substantial to defend with). Such challenges almost always inevitably fail because there is almost always a simple and plausible explanation: the officer miscounted the number of bags or tablets; the crack pieces (being very friable) broke into smaller pieces during storage, transport, and handling; two different exhibits were confused due to mismarked packages; the wrong items were inadvertently sent to the lab; the officers were reporting the gross weight (with packaging) while we report only net weights (sans packaging); items listed in one package by one investigator were, unknown to him, separated into separate packages by another investigator; submission forms being inaccurately filled out by evidence techs (who see only the sealed packaging, not the actual evidence) based on incomplete descriptions provided by investigators; etc. These kinds of things dominate the reasons for discrepancies between the description on the submission forms and what we find when we open packages, and as they reflect easily corrected innocent errors they are of no consequence. Of course we have all heard of cases where there was some major discrepancy as the result of actual tampering, but I can't recall having experienced any such case personally. On the other hand, I have periodically seen cases where the description of how the evidence was found or collected seemed implausible considering the content of the evidence, and in such cases I have wondered if there might be something not quite "kosher" going on, but it was usually such a vague suspicion that it was impossible to act upon. In those very rare cases where my suspicion was strong (and in my opinion supported significantly by my findings), I voiced my doubts to the attorneys on both sides. Some of those cases resulted in a reduction or dismissal of charges (and I would hope, an investigation into the officer(s) involved, but we aren't informed of such internal investigations as we are an "outside" agency). Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf > Of WMorris400@aol.com > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:19 AM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] Re: discrepancy reports-evidence > > Have these reports led to any investigations of tampering or have they > resulted in any legal challenges to the admission of evidence in Courts? It seems > like a great idea. > Wayne Morris > Morris-Kopec Forensics, Inc. [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Sun Mar 28 09:55:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2SEt2eQ004503 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:55:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2SEt2L6004502 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:55:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:55:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Jamie" To: Subject: Re: [forens] expert in swab drug testing for attorney Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:02:57 -0700 What does drug swab testing refer to? How is it done or the actual tests themselves? James B Crippin - Director Western Forensic Law Enforcement Training Center (WFLETC) "I would rather be irresponsible & right, CSP-Pueblo, Chem Dept. rather than responsible and wrong." 2200 Bonforte Blvd Pueblo, CO 81001 Winston Churchill (719) 549-2568 Dept Office 2580 Dept fax (719) 544-1011 Home office 0037 Home fax 251-9215 cell ph 546-8841 pgr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Kupferberg" To: Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: [forens] expert in swab drug testing for attorney > I have recently received a request from an attorney for referral to an > expert in swab drug testing? Any recommendations are appreciated.... > > > Thanks in advance, > Melissa Kupferberg > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > [EndPost by "Melissa Kupferberg" ] > [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Sun Mar 28 12:53:19 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2SHrJ9g008403 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:53:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2SHrJs8008402 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:53:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.6 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:53:19 -0500 Subject: [forens] Job Listing: Evidence Technician I From: evilpenguin To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00c601c3d96c$37594b00$166f2ac8@quesca> Mime-version: 1.0 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2SHrIIJ008397 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Just an FYI. I noticed the following job listing today and thought it might be of interest to someone lurking in the shadows here... http://www.chesapeake.va.us/services/depart/personl/vacindex.html#03250401 *** EVIDENCE TECHNICIAN I - #03250401 The Chesapeake Police Department is seeking candidates for the position of Evidence Technician I. Individual selected will be responsible for using technical processes to identify, collect, document, preserve, transport, and process evidence associated with criminal activity. Requires high school diploma or GED and education or experience equivalent to one year of college in forensic science or a closely related field and a minimum of one year of experience. Must be able to walk, bend, stoop, climb, lift heavy objects, work in confined spaces, hazardous areas, and in and around construction or accident sites. Requires handling human remains and attending autopsies. Requires excellent written and oral communication skills, good organizational skills, working independently with little supervision, and testifying in court. Must possess a valid driver¹s license with an acceptable driving record. Finalists will be required to submit to a thorough background investigation and criminal history check. Police Department Salary: $28,882 Closing date: April 7, 2004 (1) Vacancy [EndPost by evilpenguin ] From forens-owner Sun Mar 28 13:15:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2SIFMkB008917 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:15:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2SIFMvB008916 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:15:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Amy Ratliff" To: Subject: [forens] Graduate Education Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:15:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c414f0$99c86450$e23c2d89@aratliffFL207> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List: I am currently an undergraduate student at Radford University with a major in Chemistry and a minor in Forensic Science. I want to be able to work as a Forensic Chemist and was wondering what direction I should head in once I graduate. I was considering continuing on to graduate school, but was unsure of whether I should go for a degree in Forensic Science or stay on the Chemistry route. Does anyone have any suggestions on this? Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you, Amy Ratliff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Amy Ratliff" ] From forens-owner Sun Mar 28 13:28:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2SIS72r009375 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:28:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2SIS7mA009374 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:28:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <006601c414f2$6bf1b3e0$1909b1c8@Micro1> From: "Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia" To: "Forensic-Science" , "Forens List" Cc: "Crime Scene Work" , "ICSIA - Public Forum" Subject: [forens] Aspartic acid racimization Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:28:02 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2SIS72r009376 Dear List members, First anything, sorry for the cross posting. I´m looking for the following papers (printed or in PDF file) to see what is the right way to "measure" or evaluate the aspartic acid in bones to can finish my Master Papaer-work. Can´t find any help in Brasil. Fu S-J, Fan C-C , Song H-W, Wei F-Q (1995) Age estimation using a modified HPLC determination of Ratio of aspartic acid in dentin. Forensic Sci Int 73:35-40. Helfman PM, Bada JL (1976) Aspartic acid racimization in dentine as a measure of aging. Nature 262:279-281. Mornstad H, Pfeiffer H, Teivens A (1994) Estimation of dental age using HPLC- technique to determine the degree of aspartic acid racimization. J Forensic Sci 39: 1425-1431. So, if there sre someone that can help, I´ll be apreciate and sure do the right aknowlege in the "master paper". TIA, Prof. Dr. Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia Crime Scene and Forensic Entomology Expert Full Professor of Criminalistics at the Police Academy Forensic Examiner and Forensic Analyst Health Security Engeneer Lawyer Caixa Postal, 179 15030-200 São José do Rio Preto, SP - Brasil http://www.pericias-forenses.com.br peritus@e24x7.com.br j_peritus@hotmail.com (MSN) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Jorge Alejandro Paulete Scaglia" ] From forens-owner Sun Mar 28 13:45:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2SIjQvp009960 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:45:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2SIjQV7009959 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:45:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:46:26 +0200 From: Azriel Gorski Subject: Re: [forens] Graduate Education In-reply-to: <000001c414f0$99c86450$e23c2d89@aratliffFL207> X-Sender: azrielg@mail.netvision.net.il To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040328203435.01bc02f0@mail.netvision.net.il> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 References: <000001c414f0$99c86450$e23c2d89@aratliffFL207> X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Warning Personal opinion ahead! Have you worked in a Forensic Science Laboratory? I ask, because you really don't know if you want forensics until you have experienced it, the pressures, the court, etc. IF you have and are sure you want forensics, then I would recommend a second degree in Forensic Science. One that has a real research component. If you have not, the call is yours, but seriously consider your choice in the light that you might find out that the day to day is not what you want. And major employers of chemists do not value a second degree in forensic science as much as they do one in Chemisty. Good luck and Shalom from Jerusalem Azriel Gorski At 20:15 28/03/2004, you wrote: >Dear List: > >I am currently an undergraduate student at Radford University with a major >in Chemistry and a minor in Forensic Science. I want to be able to work as >a Forensic Chemist and was wondering what direction I should head in once I >graduate. I was considering continuing on to graduate school, but was >unsure of whether I should go for a degree in Forensic Science or stay on >the Chemistry route. Does anyone have any suggestions on this? Any help >would be much appreciated. > >Thank you, >Amy Ratliff > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >[EndPost by "Amy Ratliff" ] ******************************************************************** Azriel Gorski, PhD Forensic Science Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre The Hebrew University of Jerusalem http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ "Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge that shapes lifetimes" - Richard Bach If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain. - Steven Wright Man must exist in a state of balance between risk and safety. Pure risk leads to self-destruction. Pure safety leads to stagnation. In between lies survival and progress. - Unknown ******************************************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Azriel Gorski ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 30 11:33:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2UGXB3K026049 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:33:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2UGXBQ5026048 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:33:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040330082824.01db83a0@pop.business.earthlink.net> X-Sender: john%calicopress.com@pop.business.earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:33:06 -0800 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: John Houde Subject: [forens] CACNews online In-Reply-To: References: <00c601c3d96c$37594b00$166f2ac8@quesca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Forens-L List It suddenly occurred to me that many of the list members don't realize a valuable source of forensic science information and interaction is available online, and has been for years. Visit www.cacnews.org (home of the California Association of Criminalists) and check out my baby, "The CACNews," in addition to announcements of upcoming seminars, jobs and meetings in the forensic science world. Hey, we do it all for the good of the profession! John Houde The CACNews [EndPost by John Houde ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 30 13:37:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2UIbD12029125 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:37:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2UIbDPr029124 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:37:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:37:28 -0700 From: JDeak Subject: RE: [forens] CACNews online In-reply-to: <6.0.3.0.0.20040330082824.01db83a0@pop.business.earthlink.net> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <0HVE002DQJNH2V@l-daemon> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-index: AcQWdLpAlzZHBXPuQzm683zVMOarogAD3dgg Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu While on the topic of excellent forensic science sites, I would also recommend www.forensics.ca . Mr. Joseph has done a commendable job on this site. It is well worth a look. Regards to the group. J.S.(Joe) Deak -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of John Houde Sent: March 30, 2004 9:33 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] CACNews online Forens-L List It suddenly occurred to me that many of the list members don't realize a valuable source of forensic science information and interaction is available online, and has been for years. Visit www.cacnews.org (home of the California Association of Criminalists) and check out my baby, "The CACNews," in addition to announcements of upcoming seminars, jobs and meetings in the forensic science world. Hey, we do it all for the good of the profession! John Houde The CACNews [EndPost by John Houde ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29-03-2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29-03-2004 [EndPost by JDeak ] From forens-owner Tue Mar 30 18:42:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2UNgoBa006022 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:42:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2UNgoJ2006021 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:42:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <3190052.1080690157879.JavaMail.root@ccprodapp12> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:42:37 -0500 (EST) From: Theodore Mozer To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Mitochondrial DNA Legal Decisions Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: CC Mailer IV 3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu What date could we give when Mitochondrial DNA analysis of unknown hair samples became a Forensically and Leagally acceptable avenue of evidentual analysis in the US?? I come up with 1996..... [EndPost by Theodore Mozer ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 31 16:01:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2VL1bXo028617 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2VL1brm028616 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:01:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:01:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:01:06 +0100 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Alison Dubery Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on the Biology Fellowships at the Virginia Institute of Forensic Science and Medicine. We currently have a placement student who is thinking of applying for this course and would appreciate any feedback you have, positive or negative. Many thanks. -- Alison Dubery ================================================================== Keith Borer Consultants - Forensic Scientists Mountjoy Research Centre, Durham, DH1 3UR, England tel: + 44 191 386 6107 fax: + 44 191 383 0686 http://www.borer.demon.co.uk ================================================================== [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 31 16:31:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2VLVxDw029738 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2VLVxYw029737 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:31:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <8A8F2B3AD27F454695C6129172BD2E4C02BF80CB@dps-sphqasmail1.ps.state.me.us> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" Cc: "Kaufman, Ronald P" , "Muniec, David S" Subject: [forens] Rape kits and swabs Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:31:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To all: We are in the process of revamping our state rape kits. Currently we ask for 4 swabs from the key areas: vaginal, rectal, oral, genital. What are other labs requiring for numbers of swabs? Does anyone have any literature or thoughts as to whether 4 or 2 swabs are better? There are two schools of thought in this laboratory - A: by using 4 swabs we are diluting the sample amongst the swab heads and B: by using 4 swabs we are collecting more sample due to greater surface area. Thanks. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] From forens-owner Wed Mar 31 18:32:16 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2VNWGrG002464 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:32:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i2VNWGAT002463 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:32:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:31:45 -0800 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Subject: Re: [forens] Rape kits and swabs Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i2VNWGrG002465 Gretchen, The State of California is now unergoing the process of developing a standardized sexual assault kit. Current thinking is to provide a greater number of swabs to collect sample material. Swabs can collect sample from specific areas as well. The dilution school of thought doesn't seem to fly. A swab can only old somuch material. One would have a better chance of collecting usefull material if more swabs were included in the kit. Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov 3/31/2004 1:31:17 PM >>> To all: We are in the process of revamping our state rape kits. Currently we ask for 4 swabs from the key areas: vaginal, rectal, oral, genital. What are other labs requiring for numbers of swabs? Does anyone have any literature or thoughts as to whether 4 or 2 swabs are better? There are two schools of thought in this laboratory - A: by using 4 swabs we are diluting the sample amongst the swab heads and B: by using 4 swabs we are collecting more sample due to greater surface area. Thanks. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ]