From forens-owner Tue Aug 3 17:06:44 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i73L6iM7015503 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i73L6i08015502 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:06:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <410FFB91.F1BE9C9A@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 02:24:41 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] Dr. Iain West Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, Can somebody please give me the exact birth and demise dates of Dr. Iain West? Thanks. I saw his obituary sometime back in one of the leading forensic medicine journals, but I can't recollect the issue name and number. Can somebody please let me know about it. It was perhaps Australian Journal of Forensic Medicine, or may be Canadian journal. Many Thanks for your time. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 3 23:27:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i743RKM7021069 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i743RK71021068 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:27:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Gismort@aol.com Message-ID: <1c6.1caa0673.2e41b18e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:27:10 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Dr. Iain West To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu GKT Gazette - May 2002 I found this link that talks about Dr. West. Hope it helps --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Gismort@aol.com] From forens-owner Tue Aug 3 23:45:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i743j5M7021590 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i743j5IZ021589 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:45:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Gismort@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:44:57 EDT Subject: [forens] Dr West To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5031 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu GKT Gazette - May 2002 Apparently the link didn't come across in the email. here is the address http://www.gktgazette.com/2002/may/obits.asp --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Gismort@aol.com] From forens-owner Sat Aug 7 09:51:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i77Dp8M7013386 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 2004 09:51:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i77Dp8BO013385 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 2004 09:51:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <000101c47c85$875e1100$1dd06251@sekar> From: "Satish Sekar" To: Subject: [forens] Scorch Patterns from Photos Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 14:43:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i77Dp8M7013387 List members, I have been advised to produce an hypothesis paper regarding an idea I have had that could help to determine whether outdoor fires occurred when the suspect said it did or not. There are numerous variables to isolate and consider. Among them is whether the method can discriminate between two fires at the same scorch pattern. Experiments will be conducted with this in mind. The following questions relate to whether the method can be used in old cases especially that involve low temperature fires, meaning ones where fire damage is limited. Is it possible to tell whether more than one fire has occurred from photographs of a scorch pattern? If so, how can this be done and is it possible to tell when the fires occurred? If so, how? If anyone wants further information, please contact me off list as it will involve sending an attachment. Best Wishes Satish --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Satish Sekar" ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 10 13:18:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7AHIHM7005101 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7AHIHkH005100 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:18:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:17:59 -0500 From: "Chris Heartsill" To: Subject: Re: [forens] THC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Peter, I have been on vacation and may have missed some of the responses. My guess is that the local newspaper simply made a mistake in their reporting. My guess is that it is not THC but is the metabolite Carboxy-THC. This is the primary metabolite and the most common compound that is detected in the urine. With that in mind, some of the other responses are correct in identifying all of the different factors that could come in to play when interpreting a urine level. You can not make any correlation to impairment from a urine level but you can correlate signs or symptoms observed by officers as being consistent with a drug, in this case marijuana. Depending upon the various factors 63 ng/ml carboxy-THC is a moderate amount but can not be linked directly to impairment because it is in urine. By the way, carboxy-THC is not active on the central nervous system and only shows previous use of marijuana. Although I can not speak for the laboratory that ran the screen, THC is usually not identified in urine it is the carboxy metabolite. Chris Chris Heartsill Sr. Toxicology Chemist Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences Dallas, Texas 214-920-5966 >>> pnoth@avalon.net 07/30/04 01:16PM >>> Hi Folks, Could anyone answer a tox question for me? There's a vehicular homicide case pending here, where the driver admitted to having smoked marijuana, and the local newspaper reports "a urine analysis showed 63 ng/ml concentration of THC -- a marijuana metabolite -- in his system". Even with my utter lack of medical knowledge, I realize that THC isn't a "marijuana metabolite" any more than, say, mustard is a "hot dog metabolite". My question is, does this THC figure represents a lot, a little, enough to cause impairment? I realize that the effects of THC vary widely among individuals. Thanks in advance. -- Peter Nothnagle [EndPost by Peter Nothnagle ] [EndPost by "Chris Heartsill" ] From forens-owner Fri Aug 13 10:06:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7DE6WM7006004 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7DE6WWe006003 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:06:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6556.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2004 14:06:20.0290 (UTC) FILETIME=[B54D1620:01C4813E] content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: [forens] unusual phenethylamine Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:07:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000601c4813e$dda79780$8400a8c0@IRRCL.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: unusual phenethylamine Thread-Index: AcSBPt1RCeZEPQoxReiZ6syu/Ppwyg== From: "Robert Parsons" To: "FORENS-L \(statgen\) \(FORENS-L POSTING\)" , , "TIAFT Listserv \(TIAFT listserv\)" X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i7DE6cM7006005 I am trying to identify an unusual sample. Based on my analysis so far and after consultation with other specialists, I believe the substance to be 4-ethyl-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine (2C-E), but I have not been able to locate a "known" comparison standard or analytical reference data to use in confirmation. I have consulted all the usual reference texts and literature search engines; and I have spoken to specialists at several other labs, (including DEA regional labs and their Special Testing and Research Lab); but so far no one has been able to provide a sample of this compound or any reference data for it. Does anyone have (or know where I might obtain) a verified standard sample and/or verified reference spectra (or other analytical data) for this compound? Thanks in advance. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Aug 13 10:22:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7DEMoM7006674 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7DEMoEI006673 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:22:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [forens] unusual phenethylamine Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:22:37 -0400 Message-ID: <4B2EAA9D52142E4E97BEF4C4900ECCD3015B9416@DOITLHHQEXR.fldoi.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: unusual phenethylamine Thread-Index: AcSBPt1RCeZEPQoxReiZ6syu/PpwygAAduJA From: "Michael Koussiafes" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2004 14:22:38.0453 (UTC) FILETIME=[FC54EA50:01C48140] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i7DEMnM7006668 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Here is what a quick internet search turned up: 4-ethyl-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine instructions to make: http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=3119 http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=9351 purchase: http://www.cyberacid.com/en-us/dept_6.html http://www.chemnet.com/show/fxf1970/eproduct/00011177.html similar product https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/cgi-bin/hsrun/Suite7/Suite/HAHTpage/Suite.HsViewHierarchy.run?Detail=Product&ProductNumber=ALDRICH-357677&VersionSequence=1 article: http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/journals/psychoactives_journal8.shtml [EndPost by "Michael Koussiafes" ] From forens-owner Fri Aug 13 12:53:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7DGrqM7010667 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7DGrqJB010666 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:53:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: LeonStein@aol.com Message-ID: <45.130ca9d3.2e4e4c0d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:53:33 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] unusual phenethylamine To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5000 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Bob - Call Taylor Noggle at the Alabama Department of Forensic Science. He and a colleague have done extensive studies on substituted phenethylamines and they may have some sample material. At a minimum I think they will have data for comparison purposes (not to identify your sample, but to let you know you are on the right track - or not). If you do not have his contact information, e-mail me directly and I will give it to you directly, rather than posting it here. If you need it, e-mail me ASAP, as I suspect we will lose power here, thanks to Charley - that _#*@#*&%_ (mailto:#*@#*&) ! David --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by LeonStein@aol.com] From forens-owner Tue Aug 17 11:11:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7HFBLM7002118 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7HFBLu5002117 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:11:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [forens] Snow Prints Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:11:18 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Snow Prints Thread-Index: AcSEbHJo8YY+FaQpSXOgqR+gU+Rs2w== From: "Laycock, Dave" To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i7HFBLM7002112 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu We have a shoe print case involving prints left in snow. Any shoe examiners out there have a suggestion on what to use in order to make test prints of the boots? We typically use sand and/or soil for our test impressions but obviously they don't have the same consistency as snow. I'd like to come closer to the real thing if possible. Thanks! Dave Laycock Idaho State Police Forensics [EndPost by "Laycock, Dave" ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 17 11:26:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7HFQ7M7002699 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:26:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7HFQ7uL002698 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:26:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:25:36 -0700 From: "Brad Putnam" To: Subject: Re: [forens] Snow Prints Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dave - We have use a product call "Biofoam". Obviously it's not snow, but it captures a lot of detail and can be photographed and casted. Lt. Bradford A. Putnam Laboratory Director 726-2590 (261) >>> dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us 08/17/04 08:11AM >>> We have a shoe print case involving prints left in snow. Any shoe examiners out there have a suggestion on what to use in order to make test prints of the boots? We typically use sand and/or soil for our test impressions but obviously they don't have the same consistency as snow. I'd like to come closer to the real thing if possible. Thanks! Dave Laycock Idaho State Police Forensics [EndPost by "Laycock, Dave" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Brad Putnam" ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 17 12:43:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7HGhEM7004388 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7HGhE5a004387 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:43:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:39:56 -0800 From: Jim Wolfe Subject: Re: [forens] Snow Prints In-reply-to: To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <12A2ED4C-F06C-11D8-9D31-000A958D5110@dps.state.ak.us> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dave - Depending on how much detail the questioned snow impression has, we'll use snow, bio-foam or clay for test impressions. We're blessed with lots of snow for most of the year, so if needed we'll go out the back door to grab some snow.. As Brad mentioned, bio-foam works, it's easy and doesn't melt (plus you get to save the actual test impression). White non-drying clay (from art supply stores) also works. You just roll out a slab of the clay and step on it for the test impression - this probably gets you the most detail (make sure your shoe doesn't stick to the clay.....). Fine test impression detail is usually not a big issue because snow impressions typically don't have the greatest detail (unless you have fresh wet snow or really fine grained older dry snow). The snow and clay are for test impressions that we photograph but don't save. Good Luck! Jim Wolfe Alaska State Crime Lab On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 07:25 AM, Brad Putnam wrote: > Dave - We have use a product call "Biofoam". Obviously it's not snow, > but it captures a lot of detail and can be photographed and casted. > > > > > Lt. Bradford A. Putnam > Laboratory Director > 726-2590 (261) > >>>> dave.laycock@isp.state.id.us 08/17/04 08:11AM >>> > > We have a shoe print case involving prints left in snow. Any shoe > examiners out there have a suggestion on what to use in order to make > test prints of the boots? We typically use sand and/or soil for our > test impressions but obviously they don't have the same consistency as > snow. I'd like to come closer to the real thing if possible. > > Thanks! > Dave Laycock > Idaho State Police Forensics > > [EndPost by "Laycock, Dave" ] > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > [EndPost by "Brad Putnam" ] > [EndPost by Jim Wolfe ] From forens-owner Wed Aug 18 13:46:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7IHkSM7023023 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7IHkSGV023022 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:46:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040818174613.76543.qmail@web20528.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:46:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Abercrombie Subject: [forens] Request for course info To: Forensic Science Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To all on the list - - I'm attempting to get some of my Chem Unit staff into a basic/entry level arson/fire debris analysis course. Unfortunately, a formal course of that type hasn't been offered in my geographical region for a number of years - - and it's likely that drought will continue. If anyone out there is familiar with a person or group who offers this type of course, please send me some contact info. I've already talked w/ John DeHaan and have the info regarding his course. If preferable, feel free to respond off-list to either this email address or to my business email address shown below. Thanks for your help, Tom Abercrombie Criminalist Supervisor 455 Seventh Street - Room 608 Oakland CA 94607 Phone - - 510.238.3386 FAX - - 510.238.6555 Email - - jtabercrombie@oaklandnet.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail [EndPost by Tom Abercrombie ] From forens-owner Thu Aug 19 04:38:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7J8c2M7004147 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 04:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7J8c2Su004146 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 04:38:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040819103723.0266fb50@box4.tin.it> X-Sender: mmvefors@box4.tin.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:38:44 +0200 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Morin Subject: [forens] Swiss pistol ammo In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu >Dear list friends, >I am asking your help to find out if the Swiss Federal Ammunition plant of >Thun ever produced .32ACP (i.e. 7.65 mm Browning) pistol cartridges. To >the SEM wizards I ask if they ever found GSR from Swiss pistol ammo >containing, together with Pb, Ba and Sb, more than traces of Sn. >Thank to you all. >Marco Morin. Prof. Marco Morin S. Polo 2705/A 30125 Venice - Italy tel. +39 041 5244103 fax +39 041 719027 - 5244103 [EndPost by Morin ] From forens-owner Thu Aug 19 07:08:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7JB8aM7005293 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7JB8amm005292 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:08:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [forens] Swiss pistol ammo Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:08:06 -0400 Message-ID: <6834EDC78F56C4439EF5D9B530B7F785C50FA8@ATF-HQ-EXMB01.ad.msnet.atf.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] Swiss pistol ammo Thread-Index: AcSFyGOegtZ+GzM6RJyNb1k+AmC0lgAE8MWA From: "Thompson, Robert M." To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2004 11:08:06.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[CDE283D0:01C485DC] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i7JB8ZM7005287 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Prof. Morin, Are you referring to RAUG Munitions? Their site is: http://www.swissmun.com/e/index.htm Didn't see you .32 ACP there though. May want to check with them directly. They have been marketing "green" ammo lately: http://www.swissmun.ch/d/press/press250202_e.htm Robert M. Thompson Firearms and Toolmark Examiner ATF Forensic Science Laboratory 6000 Ammendale Road Ammendale, MD 20705 240-264-3846 Desk/Message 240-264-1491 FAX 301-980-5447 Cell -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Morin Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 4:39 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Swiss pistol ammo >Dear list friends, >I am asking your help to find out if the Swiss Federal Ammunition plant of >Thun ever produced .32ACP (i.e. 7.65 mm Browning) pistol cartridges. To >the SEM wizards I ask if they ever found GSR from Swiss pistol ammo >containing, together with Pb, Ba and Sb, more than traces of Sn. >Thank to you all. >Marco Morin. Prof. Marco Morin S. Polo 2705/A 30125 Venice - Italy tel. +39 041 5244103 fax +39 041 719027 - 5244103 [EndPost by Morin ] [EndPost by "Thompson, Robert M." ] From forens-owner Thu Aug 19 14:54:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7JIs9M7013375 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7JIs96Z013374 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:54:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:54:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:44:12 -0700 From: Alan Gallaspy Subject: Re: [forens] THC Peter, A measurement of 63 ng/ml of THC metabolite in urine shows only use, there is no way to infer impairment from this test. We routinely see levels of 1000 ng/ml of carboxy-THC in urine samples. Seeing a metabolite in urine simply shows recent use, and in the case of marijuana recent use can be up to a month because of the big volume of distribution and long half life. To get a handle on impairment, one would need to look for THC in the blood, even that is still up in the air as far as interpretation. Here in Nevada, we have a statutory limit of 2 ng/ml THC in blood and/or 5 ng/ml carboxy-THC in blood, or 15 ng/ml carboxy-THC in urine to demonstrate drug drunk driving. I have never been too thrilled with this law as I remain unconvinced of impairment at these levels. Alan Gallaspy Las Vegas Metro Police Forensic Lab (702) 229-3951 A4026G@LVMPD.COM >>> pnoth@avalon.net 07/30/04 11:16AM >>> Hi Folks, Could anyone answer a tox question for me? There's a vehicular homicide case pending here, where the driver admitted to having smoked marijuana, and the local newspaper reports "a urine analysis showed 63 ng/ml concentration of THC -- a marijuana metabolite -- in his system". Even with my utter lack of medical knowledge, I realize that THC isn't a "marijuana metabolite" any more than, say, mustard is a "hot dog metabolite". My question is, does this THC figure represents a lot, a little, enough to cause impairment? I realize that the effects of THC vary widely among individuals. Thanks in advance. -- Peter Nothnagle [EndPost by Peter Nothnagle ] [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Thu Aug 19 18:27:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7JMRTM7016910 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7JMRTko016909 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:27:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:27:16 +1000 From: Wayne Petherick Subject: RE: [forens] forwarded message In-reply-to: To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <0I2P00666T1KJM@staff.bond.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-index: AcSGHyg2Hetfu58bQlWwFJQ/Cl6anAAHD7LA Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Peter, My understanding of THC also is that it is lipid soluble meaning it binds to the fats instead of the water in the body. So, the concentration after a given time will also be dictated by how much body fat the person has, how much they exercise, their diet and a few other factors. I recently read an article that stated that THC metabolite can be found in the body of some people 7 weeks+ after use (under certain circumstances). Wayne ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** Wayne Petherick, BSocSci (Psych), MCrim Senior Teaching Fellow Criminology Department, Bond University Gold Coast, Qld, 4229 wpetheri@staff.bond.edu.au +617 55951124 The larger crimes are apt to be the simpler, for the bigger the crime the more obvious, as a rule, is the motive. Sherlock Holmes, A Case of Identity ****************************************************************** ****************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Christopher J. Basten Sent: Friday, 20 August 2004 4:54 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:44:12 -0700 From: Alan Gallaspy Subject: Re: [forens] THC Peter, A measurement of 63 ng/ml of THC metabolite in urine shows only use, there is no way to infer impairment from this test. We routinely see levels of 1000 ng/ml of carboxy-THC in urine samples. Seeing a metabolite in urine simply shows recent use, and in the case of marijuana recent use can be up to a month because of the big volume of distribution and long half life. To get a handle on impairment, one would need to look for THC in the blood, even that is still up in the air as far as interpretation. Here in Nevada, we have a statutory limit of 2 ng/ml THC in blood and/or 5 ng/ml carboxy-THC in blood, or 15 ng/ml carboxy-THC in urine to demonstrate drug drunk driving. I have never been too thrilled with this law as I remain unconvinced of impairment at these levels. Alan Gallaspy Las Vegas Metro Police Forensic Lab (702) 229-3951 A4026G@LVMPD.COM >>> pnoth@avalon.net 07/30/04 11:16AM >>> Hi Folks, Could anyone answer a tox question for me? There's a vehicular homicide case pending here, where the driver admitted to having smoked marijuana, and the local newspaper reports "a urine analysis showed 63 ng/ml concentration of THC -- a marijuana metabolite -- in his system". Even with my utter lack of medical knowledge, I realize that THC isn't a "marijuana metabolite" any more than, say, mustard is a "hot dog metabolite". My question is, does this THC figure represents a lot, a little, enough to cause impairment? I realize that the effects of THC vary widely among individuals. Thanks in advance. -- Peter Nothnagle [EndPost by Peter Nothnagle ] [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] [EndPost by Wayne Petherick ] From forens-owner Sun Aug 22 09:42:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7MDgpM7021998 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 09:42:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7MDgp4l021997 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 09:42:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 09:42:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:31:27 +0100 From: Orla Sower Subject: Trace DNA protocol I am hoping someone can help me. I am currently trying out different protocols for the extraction of DNA from trace/limited contacts - swabs from shoes, gear sticks etc. with no luck. I would appreciate it if anybody could forward me details of their trace DNA protocols. We are using Chelex 100 for our DNA extractions and would prefer to keep using this rather that having to use phenol-chloroform with its waste disposal issues. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Orla Sower. -- Orla Sower Keith Borer Consultants, Mountjoy Research Centre, Durham, DH1 3UR. UK Phone: + 44 (0)191 3866107 Fax: + 44 (0)191 3830686 [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Mon Aug 23 13:26:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7NHQIM7008210 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7NHQGJV008209 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:26:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040823122407.01bdc920@pop.avalon.net> X-Sender: pnoth@pop.avalon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:25:17 -0500 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Peter Nothnagle Subject: Re: [forens] THC In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20040730162425.00dfc8e0@postoffice.uri.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.20040730162425.00dfc8e0@postoffice.uri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, I sincerely thank everybody who took the time to reply to my question about THC metabolite levels in urine. I learned a lot and I trust that others did, also! Best regards, Peter Nothnagle [EndPost by Peter Nothnagle ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 24 05:10:11 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7O9ABM7020025 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 05:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7O9AB24020024 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 05:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <007001c489ba$1eaad110$90badf82@IPS.ad.unil.ch> From: "Nicole Egli" To: Subject: [forens] gun blue Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:09:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i7O9ABM7020026 Dear list, a security question regarding fingerprint detection on non fired cartridges. I wanted to know if there was any risk using blueing (corrosive) on non fired cartridges (reaction with the primer...). Thank you --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Nicole Egli" ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 24 11:00:13 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7OF0DM7025361 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7OF0Dwj025360 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:00:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <412B570C.F644A701@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:26:12 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dr_anil@hotmail.com, "Charles Patterson (Eternal Treblinka)" Subject: [forens] A new book is available for review Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Sir, The journal office has received the following book for review. Mantra, Magic & Miracle – A Scientific Exploration, 1st Edition by Badiuddin Khan and Hasan Jawaid Khan. Hardback, 5.5" x 9". Phoenix International Publishers, D-37, Paryavaran Complex, South of Saket, New Delhi-110 030, India. http://www.phoenixpublishers.com/. Publication Date 2004. 132 pages, ISBN 81-8305-001-8. Price Indian Rs 150, US $7.50, UK £ 5.00 It is a small 132 page book, written by a father and son team (the first author being the senior Khan), both of whom are reputed scientists and science communicators in India. In India, (and I believe in several other parts of the world) there is a tendency for gullible people to fall prey to so-called divine powers of demi-gods, such as levitation and telekinesis etc. Such demigods abound in India, but they do exist in developed economies too, be they Edgar Cayce (1877-1945) of rural Kentucky, Uri Geller of Israel or Aleister Crowley of England. How do they perform their tricks? How does Geller bend spoons before an audience? How do Indian Sadhus pluck juicy oranges and apples out of thin air and gift them to their disciples? How do Indian Rishis walk on water? How does one perform levitation? This book is a scientific attempt to explain all this – and more. Of course we get to know that these are all magic tricks, which anyone can perform with little practice. If you are interested in reviewing this fascinating book, please let me have your latest address and I will have this book sent over to you immediately. Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 24 11:07:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7OF7aM7026020 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7OF7V3Y026017 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:07:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <412B518A.E7AF0ADD@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:02:42 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dr_anil@hotmail.com, "Charles Patterson (Eternal Treblinka)" Subject: [forens] A new book is available for review Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Sir, The journal office has received the following book for review. Mantra, Magic & Miracle – A Scientific Exploration, 1st Edition by Badiuddin Khan and Hasan Jawaid Khan. Hardback, 5.5" x 9". Phoenix International Publishers, D-37, Paryavaran Complex, South of Saket, New Delhi-110 030, India. http://www.phoenixpublishers.com/. Publication Date 2004. 132 pages, ISBN 81-8305-001-8. Price Indian Rs 150, US $7.50, UK £ 5.00 It is a small 132 page book, written by a father and son team (the first author being the senior Khan), both of whom are reputed scientists and science communicators in India. In India, (and I believe in several other parts of the world) there is a tendency for gullible people to fall prey to so-called divine powers of demi-gods, such as levitation and telekinesis etc. Such demigods abound in India, but they do exist in developed economies too, be they Edgar Cayce (1877-1945) of rural Kentucky, Uri Geller of Israel or Aleister Crowley of England. How do they perform their tricks? How does Geller bend spoons before an audience? How do Indian Sadhus pluck juicy oranges and apples out of thin air and gift them to their disciples? How do Indian Rishis walk on water? How does one perform levitation? This book is a scientific attempt to explain all this – and more. Of course we get to know that these are all magic tricks, which anyone can perform with little practice. If you are interested in reviewing this fascinating book, please let me have your latest address and I will have this book sent over to you immediately. Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 24 18:37:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7OMbaM7005127 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7OMba02005126 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:37:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:36:37 +1000 From: Morris Odell Subject: [forens] Forthcoming conference To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6556.0 Thread-Topic: Forthcoming conference Thread-Index: AcSKK2KiF7jMVbgCRBezoT6pHjoE0g== content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hi all, For those of us involved in forensic analysis of traffic crashes and all associated areas of policy, education, investigation etc, there is an interesting Traffic Medicine conference coming up in 2 years. Take a look at < http://www.trafficmedicine.org > for a link to the conference website and keep it bookmarked. Dr Morris Odell Senior Forensic Physician Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine Melbourne, Australia mailto:morriso@vifm.org Tel: +613 9684 4480 Fax: +613 9684 4481 * * * CONFIDENTIAL * * * The information in this message and in any attachments may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not read, forward, disclose, or use in any way the information this message or any attachment contains. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete or destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by Morris Odell ] From forens-owner Fri Aug 27 06:15:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7RAFRM7004027 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7RAFR0Z004026 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:15:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:44:39 +0100 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: KBC Subject: [forens] Trace DNA protocol MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-M () Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I work for Keith Borer Consultants, a forensic consultancy in England, which has recently set up a DNA profiling unit. I am looking for a protocol for the extraction of DNA from trace contacts e.g. gear-sticks, guns etc. The protocols we have so far tried have been unsuccessful and I am wondering if anyone out there can give me details of a DNA extraction protocol that works for these trace contacts. We are using Chelex 100 for the majority of our DNA extractions and would prefer to use this medium rather than phenol-chloroform. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Yours sincerely, Orla Sower. -- KBC [EndPost by KBC ] From forens-owner Fri Aug 27 10:40:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7REe7M7008049 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7REe7v9008048 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:40:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-EL-Whitelist: sent via whitelisted host p4.pm3-3.westnet.com:206.28.203.4 Message-ID: <00eb01c48c43$b0e9db30$58b3fea9@director> From: "Dr Elahi" To: References: <412B570C.F644A701@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [forens] A new book is available for review Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:39:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version 0.75.1, clamav-milter version 0.75c on Libby X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Prof. Aggarwal: I would be interested in receiving the book you mention for a class discussion for forensic science students. If you still have a copy of the book available you can send it to me at the following address: Dr. Nasik Elahi Director, Forensic Laboratory Yonkers Police Department Yonkers, NY 10956 I am also an adjunct professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice of the City University of New York. Thank you. Sincerely, Dr. Nasik Elahi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Professor Anil Aggrawal" To: ; "Charles Patterson (Eternal Treblinka)" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: [forens] A new book is available for review > Dear Sir, > The journal office has received the following book for review. > > Mantra, Magic & Miracle - A Scientific Exploration, 1st Edition by > Badiuddin Khan and Hasan Jawaid Khan. Hardback, 5.5" x 9". > Phoenix International Publishers, D-37, Paryavaran Complex, South of > Saket, New Delhi-110 030, India. http://www.phoenixpublishers.com/. > Publication Date 2004. 132 pages, ISBN 81-8305-001-8. Price Indian Rs > 150, US $7.50, UK £ 5.00 > > It is a small 132 page book, written by a father and son team (the first > > author being the senior Khan), both of whom are reputed scientists and > science communicators in India. In India, (and I believe in several > other parts of the world) there is a tendency for gullible people to > fall prey to so-called divine powers of demi-gods, such as levitation > and telekinesis etc. Such demigods abound in India, but they do exist in > > developed economies too, be they Edgar Cayce (1877-1945) of rural > Kentucky, Uri Geller of Israel or Aleister Crowley of England. How do > they perform their tricks? How does Geller bend spoons before an > audience? How do Indian Sadhus pluck juicy oranges and apples out of > thin air and gift them to their disciples? How do Indian Rishis walk on > water? How does one perform levitation? This book is a scientific > attempt to explain all this - and more. Of course we get to know that > these are all magic tricks, which anyone can perform with little > practice. > > If you are interested in reviewing this fascinating book, please let me > have your latest address and I will have this book sent over to you > immediately. Thanks. > > Sincerely > Professor Anil Aggrawal > Professor of Forensic Medicine > Maulana Azad Medical College > S-299 Greater Kailash-1 > New Delhi-110048 > INDIA > Phone: 26465460, 26413101 > Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com > Page me via ICQ #19727771 > Websites: > > 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites > http://www.geradts.com/~anil > 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html > 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html > 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page > http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html > 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 > 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html > 7. Forensic Careers > http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html > 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po > > *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I > tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being > called when the top doctors have failed!* > `\|||/ > (@@) > ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ > _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| > ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ > _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ > > [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] [EndPost by "Dr Elahi" ] From forens-owner Fri Aug 27 12:09:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7RG9SM7010430 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7RG9SfM010429 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:09:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040827160921.86874.qmail@web50508.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:09:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Sliter Subject: Re: [forens] Trace DNA protocol To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Orla, We routinely extract and profile samples of the sort you describe. We use a standard organic extraction method, coupled with Microcon YM100 spin dialysis tubes. We perform PCIA extractions using a barrier method (Phase-Lock tubes) in order to maximize recovery of the aqueous phase and to minimize carry-over of material at the phase interface. This method works well for us, using the ABI310 genetic analyzer and a 50 RFU threshold for peak calling. I am doubtful that a Chelex extraction protocol will work for you with trace samples. We made a decision early on to reject Chelex extraction protocols because the overall poor quality of the extract compared to standard organic extraction protocols. In our validation studies Chelex extracts routinely gave noisy baselines that interfered with calling trace level profiles. The noisy baselines could only be avoided by raising the peak-calling threshold well above 50 RFUs. This might be fine for standard blood stains and other sorts of high-DNA samples. But if you are specifically wanting to examine trace level samples then you want to use the full dynamic range of your instrument. Timothy J. Sliter, Ph.D. Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences Dallas, Texas --- KBC wrote: > > I work for Keith Borer Consultants, a forensic > consultancy in England, > which has recently set up a DNA profiling unit. I > am looking for a > protocol for the extraction of DNA from trace > contacts e.g. gear-sticks, > guns etc. > > The protocols we have so far tried have been > unsuccessful and I am > wondering if anyone out there can give me details of > a DNA extraction > protocol that works for these trace contacts. We are > using Chelex 100 > for the majority of our DNA extractions and would > prefer to use this > medium rather than phenol-chloroform. > > Any help will be greatly appreciated. > > Yours sincerely, > Orla Sower. > -- > KBC > [EndPost by KBC ] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail [EndPost by Tim Sliter ] From forens-owner Mon Aug 30 16:24:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7UKOqM7027458 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7UKOqP2027457 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:24:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [forens] Alcohol Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:24:38 +1200 Message-ID: <146ED5876C0FA34C92E39EE555F0405A047F90D2@EXCHANGE01.adhb.govt.nz> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Alcohol Thread-Index: AcSOz18tbjm4NbKEQGSDZRna19c8Dw== From: "Simon Stables" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2004 20:24:37.0849 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F1F7C90:01C48ECF] X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i7UKOqM7027459 Dear List member I have a case of an apparent SIDS death. The child is 6 weeks old and is bottle-fed. Toxicology has revealed a blood alcohol level of 49 mg/100ml. Alcohol was also detected in the stomach contents and bile. The rest of the tox screen was negative. I have had a look at the PedTox registry on the NAME website. Is anyone aware of any other references which would help with the interpretation of this result in this age group? Kind regards Simon Stables Forensic Pathologist Forensic Pathology - LabPlus Auckland Hospital PO Box 110031 Auckland New Zealand Tel: 64 9 375 7013 Fax: 64 9 309 4301 Email: sstables@adhb.govt.nz --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Simon Stables" ] From forens-owner Mon Aug 30 22:30:38 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7V2UcM7004793 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7V2UcVc004792 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:30:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <35b501c48f01$038f9fe0$fe5f12d0@dwhause> From: "Dave Hause" To: References: <146ED5876C0FA34C92E39EE555F0405A047F90D2@EXCHANGE01.adhb.govt.nz> Subject: Re: [forens] Alcohol Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:19:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu If you're a NAME member, look at the archives of the list - there was a recent compilation of references on this topic, I think by Heather Raaf. Dave Hause, dwhause@jobe.net Ft. Leonard Wood, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Stables" Dear List member I have a case of an apparent SIDS death. The child is 6 weeks old and is bottle-fed. Toxicology has revealed a blood alcohol level of 49 mg/100ml. Alcohol was also detected in the stomach contents and bile. The rest of the tox screen was negative. I have had a look at the PedTox registry on the NAME website. Is anyone aware of any other references which would help with the interpretation of this result in this age group? Kind regards Simon Stables [EndPost by "Dave Hause" ] From forens-owner Tue Aug 31 10:48:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7VEmRM7013743 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i7VEmRCn013742 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:48:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: WMorris400@aol.com Message-ID: <158.3ded4dfb.2e65e9b1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:48:17 EDT Subject: [forens] looking for quote To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I know this may be a little off-base but similar requests have been successful. I believe Einstein was quoted as saying something like " science can trace the universe back to a point mass but beyond that is god". I am looking for the actual quote and citation. thank you Wayne Morris [EndPost by WMorris400@aol.com]