From forens-owner Thu Apr 1 09:39:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i31Ed68u013213 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:39:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i31Ed6mR013212 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 09:39:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040401093505.0140d960@postoffice.uri.edu> X-Sender: dhi0251u@postoffice.uri.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:35:05 -0500 To: "Harwood, William" , "Krueger, John" , "Montagna, Chris" , "Pifer, Tim" , "Staples, Melisa" , "Wagner, Michael" , "Buel, Eric" , "Hayes, Don" , "Heaton, Charles" , "Selavka, Carl" , "Hilliard, Dennis" , "Uliss, Dave " , "Pagliaro, Elaine" , "Zercie, Ken" , forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Dennis Hilliard Subject: [forens] 180 Day Study Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Good Day The IAI is the first to get this out. I suppose the others will follow. So you may get this more than once. The CFSO is doing more than just honoring CSI actors. Crime Laboratories have participated in surveys for this purpose, but now they want to target police agencies that are doing this work also. Please pass the survey on to others you believe will assist in this study. Thanks, Dennis Message Follows: Please note the below information carefully. I am sending this to everyone who is on the e-mail list for the IAI’s Monthly Update and ask that you take the time to read the message below and complete the attached survey. Division Editors and Secretaries, please distribute this to your division members and ask if they would take a few minutes to complete this important survey. Committee Chairs, please distribute this to your committee members and ask them the same. We need every bit of data we can gather in order to present an accurate summary of the needs and state of various forensic disciplines. Thanks very much for your assistance. Joe Polski ---------------------------------------------------------- As you may know, recent legislation passed by the United States Senate Appropriations Committee directed that the forensic science organizations represented by the Consortium of Forensic Science Organizations (CFSO) compile a needs analysis of forensic science beyond DNA. DNA has received much publicity, very deservedly, but it is the CFSO’s view that there are many other forensic disciplines that contribute to the criminal justice system and those must not be forgotten. The text of the Senate language is as follows: Improving Forensic Capabilities - The National Institute of Justice [NIJ], in conjunction with its own Office of Science & Technology, the American Society of Crime Lab Directors, the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, the International Association for Identification, and the National Association of Medical Examiners, is directed to develop a plan which will address the needs of the crime lab and medical examiner community beyond the ‘‘DNA Initiative’’ and report back to the Committees on Appropriations no later than 180 days from the date of enactment of this Act. The report should address the following: (1) manpower and equipment needs, (2) continuing education policies, (3) professionalism and accreditation standards, and (4) the level of collaboration needed between Federal forensic science labs and State/local forensic science Labs for the administration of justice. The CFSO is composed of the IAI, the American Academy of Forensic Sciences (AAFS), the American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors (ASCLD) and the National Association of Medical Examiners (NAME). It is most unusual that individual associations are named in federal legislation but that is what has occurred. Each organization was asked to name three people to serve on a committee to prepare a needs assessment of certain disciplines represented by their organization. IAI President Jan Johnson appointed Mike Campbell, Joe Polski and herself to this committee as the IAI’s representatives. The IAI will compile data for Pattern Evidence (Fingerprints, Footwear/Tiretrack etc.), Crime Scene Investigation and Bloodstain Pattern Analysis and prepare a report and presentation for a Summit Meeting to be held May 18 and 19 in Washington, DC. The committee is in the process of gathering information respecting the above disciplines. We are especially interested in data from those agencies where forensic identification services are not part of a crime laboratory. Much data has been collected from crime laboratories but very little from those units that operate, generally but not always, within police or sheriff’s departments and are not part of a crime lab. We hope to raise the profile of those types of service providers and their needs. Attached is a short questionnaire that will assist us in preparing our report to Congress. Please take a few minutes to complete the requested information and send it back via e-mail to me at iaisecty@theiai.org In addition, we would very much appreciate if division secretaries or editors would send this questionnaire to division members. Committee Chairs, please forward this on to your committee members for, hopefully, their response. We need this information as soon as possible but no later than April 20, 2004. Don’t hesitate to contact any of the committee members by phone or e-mail if you have any questions. If you do not have answers to all questions, please answer those you can. We also realize some of the questions ask for statistics that may be unavailable but if you can provide a relatively close estimate, we appreciate it. Please note that agencies will not be individually identified. We will only use summary data. If your agency chooses to remain anonymous, that’s fine. We would like to know who completes the survey so we can make contact if there are any questions. Thank you in advance for your response to this survey. Please contact any committee member or me at the number shown below if you have any questions. The IAI 180 Day Study Committee Mike Campbell Captain of Police, Milwaukee Police Dept. Phone: (414) 630-9670 e-mail: soupfam1@hotmail.com Jan Johnson Forensic Specialist Trainer Escambia Co. Sheriff's Office Phone: (850) 554-1287 e-mail: forensicpieces@aol.com Joe Polski Chief Operations Officer International Association for Identification 2535 Pilot Knob Road, Suite 117 Mendota Heights, MN 55120-1120 Phone: (651) 681-8566 Fax: (651) 681-8443 E-Mail: iaisecty@theiai.org Website: theiai.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by Dennis Hilliard ] From forens-owner Sat Apr 3 00:16:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i335GdxD022794 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:16:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i335Gcxi022793 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:16:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <406E3F24.CFECC2F3@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:05:48 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dr_anil@hotmail.com Subject: [forens] From Anil X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Sir, The following news was splashed on the front page of Indian Newspapers today. It obviously has medical, ethical, forensic and perhaps even psychiatric connotations. I am sending the cutting to you as a scan. Can you please give me your valuable views on this? Many thanks for your time. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) image/jpeg --- [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Sat Apr 3 00:46:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i335kwdu023431 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:46:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i335kv94023430 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:46:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] From Anil Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 15:44:27 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcQZO9m8D21rmEDvSuqmCqtU4TJSmAAAtR6Q In-Reply-To: <406E3F24.CFECC2F3@hotmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Which one is it? Regards Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Professor Anil Aggrawal Sent: Saturday, 3 April 2004 2:36 PM To: dr_anil@hotmail.com Subject: [forens] From Anil Dear Sir, The following news was splashed on the front page of Indian Newspapers today. It obviously has medical, ethical, forensic and perhaps even psychiatric connotations. I am sending the cutting to you as a scan. Can you please give me your valuable views on this? Many thanks for your time. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) image/jpeg --- [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.647 / Virus Database: 414 - Release Date: 29/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Sun Apr 4 07:35:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i34BZ8JJ028135 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 07:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i34BZ8V6028134 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 07:35:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <406FF2C0.1DE54BD9@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:04:24 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] Right to die Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, Two days back I sent the list a scan from a Indian national newspaper, and sought opinion of the learned group on this news, but unfortunately the attachment was deleted. This news was splashed in National newspapers all over the country. In India, the question of right to die has once again resurfaced due to this news, releasing the age old djinn once again. We all know that Jack Kevorkian - on On Nov. 22, 1998 - showed on TV the killing of a person, because of which he was jailed. I received mails from several list members who complained that they could not see the scan. For the benefit of all, I have uploaded the scan at http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/vol_004_no_002/others/forum/euthanasia.jpg May I most humbly request the members to go through this cutting and make me wiser by their comments. Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 12:02:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35G2RLO022090 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35G2RKi022089 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:02:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <8A8F2B3AD27F454695C6129172BD2E4C02BF80FE@dps-sphqasmail1.ps.state.me.us> From: "Hicks, Gretchen D" To: "Forens-l (E-mail)" Subject: [forens] Rape kits, again Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:01:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In light of the responses that I received in regards to the numbers of swabs, we are now considering adding vaginal washes and oral rinses to the kits. If your state receives such samples and you have a moment, I would truly appreciate protocols on the collection of those samples, to incorporate into our kit, as well as protocols for handling the samples at the laboratory end and storage / transport. E-mail is sufficient, as well as regular mail at the address below. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 13:32:55 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35HWsda024147 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35HWsgf024146 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:32:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <40719640.D1FCB68@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:54:17 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] Kevorkian's Sentence Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, I believe Dr. Kevorkian (better known as Dr. Death) was imprisoned for televising a case of euthanasia. That was in 1998. Can someone tell me please, how many years did he get in prison? Is he still in prison? When is he due to be released? Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 15:24:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35JOLPn026281 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35JOK0T026274 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:24:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: SkipnCar@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.3e0e5527.2da30c50@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:24:00 EDT Subject: [forens] Rape kits, again To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5107 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Gretchen, We did away with vaginal washes and oral rinses years ago, way before I retired. - They added to the time of the examination - They gave a very high bacteria count - They were sometimes so dilute that a lot of concentration was needed - Sometimes they leaked Well taken swabs yield enough DNA in most cases. Carla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carla M. Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL 33067 954-796-8063, telephone & fax skipncar@aol.com Live Well Laugh Often Love Much In a message dated 4/5/2004 12:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov writes: In light of the responses that I received in regards to the numbers of swabs, we are now considering adding vaginal washes and oral rinses to the kits. If your state receives such samples and you have a moment, I would truly appreciate protocols on the collection of those samples, to incorporate into our kit, as well as protocols for handling the samples at the laboratory end and storage / transport. E-mail is sufficient, as well as regular mail at the address below. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 15:27:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35JRqND027042 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35JRqRN027041 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:27:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8505001297@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Long, Julie" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Rape kits, again Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:27:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu We are the same as Carla. Left the vaginal washes behind years ago for her same reasons. Julie Long Montana State Crime Lab Quality Manager 406-329-1132 -----Original Message----- From: Hicks, Gretchen D [mailto:Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 9:02 AM To: Forens-l (E-mail) Subject: [forens] Rape kits, again In light of the responses that I received in regards to the numbers of swabs, we are now considering adding vaginal washes and oral rinses to the kits. If your state receives such samples and you have a moment, I would truly appreciate protocols on the collection of those samples, to incorporate into our kit, as well as protocols for handling the samples at the laboratory end and storage / transport. E-mail is sufficient, as well as regular mail at the address below. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] [EndPost by "Long, Julie" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 16:11:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35KBvSX029251 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35KBvQP029250 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:11:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040405201130.3132.qmail@web14711.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:11:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Sliter Subject: Re: [forens] Rape kits, again To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <12d.3e0e5527.2da30c50@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu We have the medical people collect both oral washes & oral swabs. We also have them make fresh smears of the oral swabs. We have observed individual cases where the swabs test negative for acid phosphatase, the fresh smears are negative microscopically, but spermatozoa are observed in the pellet of the oral wash. Tim Sliter Institute of Forensic Sciences Dallas, Texas SkipnCar@aol.com wrote: Gretchen, We did away with vaginal washes and oral rinses years ago, way before I retired. - They added to the time of the examination - They gave a very high bacteria count - They were sometimes so dilute that a lot of concentration was needed - Sometimes they leaked Well taken swabs yield enough DNA in most cases. Carla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carla M. Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL 33067 954-796-8063, telephone & fax skipncar@aol.com Live Well Laugh Often Love Much In a message dated 4/5/2004 12:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov writes: In light of the responses that I received in regards to the numbers of swabs, we are now considering adding vaginal washes and oral rinses to the kits. If your state receives such samples and you have a moment, I would truly appreciate protocols on the collection of those samples, to incorporate into our kit, as well as protocols for handling the samples at the laboratory end and storage / transport. E-mail is sufficient, as well as regular mail at the address below. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Tim Sliter ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 16:39:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35Kd1B9000392 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35Kd0tw000391 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: johnblyons To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Look,my beautiful girl friend MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:38:22 -0400 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: audio/x-wav;name=HREF.bat Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=ADSAdClient31[2].htm Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: PEEgSFJFRj0iaHR0cDovL2Fkcy5tc24uY29tL2Fkcy9yZWRpcmVjdC5kbGwvQ0lEPTAwMGM0 NWFiNzhhM2E0NWEwMDAwMDAwMC9BUkVBPUhPVEJPUz9pbWFnZT1odHRwOi8vYWRzLm1zbi5j b20vYWRzL0hPVEJPUy8wMDI5Mk0yMDA2MF9MRy5naWYiIFRBUkdFVD0iX3RvcCI+PElNRyBT UkM9Imh0dHA6Ly9hZHMubXNuLmNvbS9hZHMvSE9UQk9TLzAwMjkyTTIwMDYwX0xHLmdpZiIg QUxUPSJEb3duIGxvYWQgZnJlZSBNU04gRXhwbG9yZXIgbm93IiBCT1JERVI9MD48L0E+AD== --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/html audio/x-wav text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by johnblyons ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 17:44:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35Liai1002575 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35LiaRZ002574 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:44:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Kevorkian's Sentence Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:49:33 -0400 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <017a01c41b57$e173bda0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40719640.D1FCB68@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2004 21:44:37.0541 (UTC) FILETIME=[313D1D50:01C41B57] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Kevorkian was sentenced to 10 to 25 years for the second degree murder of Thomas Youk. He was denied both an early release and a new trial last December, but is eligible for parole in 2007. See: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104665,00.html See also: http://www.state.mi.us/mdoc/asp/otis2profile.asp?mdocNumber=284797 Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Professor Anil Aggrawal Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 1:24 PM To: Forensic Newsgroup (main) Subject: [forens] Kevorkian's Sentence Dear List, I believe Dr. Kevorkian (better known as Dr. Death) was imprisoned for televising a case of euthanasia. That was in 1998. Can someone tell me please, how many years did he get in prison? Is he still in prison? When is he due to be released? Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 18:07:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35M74SC003163 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35M74ew003162 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:07:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040405150543.01e0dec0@pop.business.earthlink.net> X-Sender: john%calicopress.com@pop.business.earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:06:55 -0700 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: John Houde Subject: Re: [forens] Look,my beautiful girl friend In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Uh Oh I thought that ALL attachments were stripped before going on the list! That's how we protect ourselves from viruses...what does this .BAT file do when activated? John [EndPost by John Houde ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 18:31:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35MVoaC003959 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35MVopK003958 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:31:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: mail.bcpl.net: cdef owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:31:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Carol Define MD X-X-Sender: cdef@mail To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Look,my beautiful girl friend In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040405150543.01e0dec0@pop.business.earthlink.net> Message-ID: References: <6.0.3.0.0.20040405150543.01e0dec0@pop.business.earthlink.net> X-Organization: BCPL.NET Internet Services X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu THis is what I got: [ Part 1, Audio/X-WAV 697bytes. ] [ Cannot play this part. Press "V" then "S" to save in a file. ] Long header describes this as: Content-Type: audio/x-wav;name=HREF.bat I wouldn't recommend opening this either... Carol On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, John Houde wrote: > Uh Oh > I thought that ALL attachments were stripped before going on the list! > That's how we protect ourselves from viruses...what does this .BAT file do > when activated? > John > > > [EndPost by John Houde ] > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 18:48:53 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i35MmrIH004736 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i35MmrAG004735 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:48:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:48:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Basten To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] message from johnblyons@hotmail.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu To all, all posts to the list are stripped of html and attachments with stripmime.pl. I am not sure how that HREF.bat file got through. It looks like a small binary. Delete it and the message by johnblyons@hotmail.com. I have unsubscribed that address. Christopher J. Basten [EndPost by Chris Basten ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 21:29:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i361TZ9V008194 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i361TZUm008193 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:29:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8501BACBF7@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Ammen, Alice" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Rape kits, again #2 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:29:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Second batch of attachments Alice -----Original Message----- From: Hicks, Gretchen D [mailto:Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:02 AM To: Forens-l (E-mail) Subject: [forens] Rape kits, again In light of the responses that I received in regards to the numbers of swabs, we are now considering adding vaginal washes and oral rinses to the kits. If your state receives such samples and you have a moment, I would truly appreciate protocols on the collection of those samples, to incorporate into our kit, as well as protocols for handling the samples at the laboratory end and storage / transport. E-mail is sufficient, as well as regular mail at the address below. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword application/msword application/msword application/msword application/msword --- [EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 21:30:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i361UsTo008298 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i361UrkM008297 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:30:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <5A866AA333A83A4BBA4BBF73727EEA8501BACBF8@doaisd03001.state.mt.us> From: "Ammen, Alice" To: "'forens@statgen.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: [forens] Rape kits, again #3 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:30:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Batch #3 Alice -----Original Message----- From: Hicks, Gretchen D [mailto:Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:02 AM To: Forens-l (E-mail) Subject: [forens] Rape kits, again In light of the responses that I received in regards to the numbers of swabs, we are now considering adding vaginal washes and oral rinses to the kits. If your state receives such samples and you have a moment, I would truly appreciate protocols on the collection of those samples, to incorporate into our kit, as well as protocols for handling the samples at the laboratory end and storage / transport. E-mail is sufficient, as well as regular mail at the address below. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword application/msword application/msword application/msword --- [EndPost by "Ammen, Alice" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 22:33:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i362XQpm009540 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i362XQT4009539 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:33:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [66.122.212.130] X-Originating-Email: [sojen1@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sojen1@hotmail.com From: "Stephen Ojena" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Chernobyl disaster, story & pics...very very interesting Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:00:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2004 01:00:35.0871 (UTC) FILETIME=[91BFE2F0:01C41B72] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > >This is really an eye-opener... > >http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/ Stephen Ojena Criminalist Martinez, CA _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp [EndPost by "Stephen Ojena" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 23:12:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i363Csf4010698 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i363CsvA010697 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:12:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Look,my beautiful girl friend Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:11:13 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcQbXgxFKgTVS+5ARlq3QFFugMT2QQAJqmeQ Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I got the same thing from forens@statgen. But it was quarantined before it did any damage. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Carol Define MD Sent: Tuesday, 6 April 2004 8:32 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Look,my beautiful girl friend THis is what I got: [ Part 1, Audio/X-WAV 697bytes. ] [ Cannot play this part. Press "V" then "S" to save in a file. ] Long header describes this as: Content-Type: audio/x-wav;name=HREF.bat I wouldn't recommend opening this either... Carol On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, John Houde wrote: > Uh Oh > I thought that ALL attachments were stripped before going on the list! > That's how we protect ourselves from viruses...what does this .BAT > file do when activated? > John > > > [EndPost by John Houde ] > [EndPost by Carol Define MD ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 23:26:57 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i363QvUx011214 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i363Qv4o011213 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:26:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Eljnsjr@aol.com Message-ID: <98.7937c93.2da37d79@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:26:49 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Rape kits, again To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu CC: Ed.Jones@mail.co.ventura.ca.us MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5106 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Carla, I agree that vaginal washes: Add to the examination time. They give very high bacteria counts when allowed to grow. They can leak. I disagree about the dilution comment. Willott et al. found that the collection of liquid saliva samples was more effective than oral swabs for collecting sperm from the mouth. From 61 cases wit h alleged fellatio where both saliva samples and oral swabs were collected, sperm were found in saliva samples 22 times while sperm were found only 10 times on oral swabs. G. M. Willott and M. A. Crosse, "The Detection of Spermatozoa in the Mouth," J. Forensic Sci. Soc., 26 (1985) 125-8. >From an evidential view point the vaginal wash costs only the time and apparatus of collection. The swabs are always collected first followed by the vag wash. I examined many rape kits over a 15 year period and none of the vag washes leaked. The 2 to 3 cc's of saline wash collected with a disposable syringe was placed in a red topped vial (looks like a test tube with a red rubber stopper). All of my kits were refrigerated and examined within 72 hours of collection. I did not see any major differences in bacterial levels between swabs and vag washes. My experience was similar to Willot et al., most of the time, I found higher AP activity and more sperm in the vag washes than in the swabs. From 240 total cases where sperm were graded on both vaginal washings and vaginal swabs, the vaginal washings were graded higher than the vaginal swab in 55 cases or 23% and the reverse (vaginal swab graded higher than vaginal washing) was found in 12 cases or 5%. Fourteen cases or 6.3% found sperm in the vaginal washings when the vaginal swab was negative. Four cases or 1.8% found sperm on the vaginal swab and not in the vaginal washings. In addition there were 12 cases which showed a change of 2 grades or more in sperm rating when comparing results from the two collection techniques, the vaginal washings were higher in all 12 cases. I think Gretchen is on the right path considering vaginal washes. Ed Jones In a message dated 4/5/2004 12:25:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, SkipnCar@aol.com writes: Gretchen, We did away with vaginal washes and oral rinses years ago, way before I retired. - They added to the time of the examination - They gave a very high bacteria count - They were sometimes so dilute that a lot of concentration was needed - Sometimes they leaked Well taken swabs yield enough DNA in most cases. Carla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carla M. Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL 33067 954-796-8063, telephone & fax skipncar@aol.com Live Well Laugh Often Love Much In a message dated 4/5/2004 12:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov writes: In light of the responses that I received in regards to the numbers of swabs, we are now considering adding vaginal washes and oral rinses to the kits. If your state receives such samples and you have a moment, I would truly appreciate protocols on the collection of those samples, to incorporate into our kit, as well as protocols for handling the samples at the laboratory end and storage / transport. E-mail is sufficient, as well as regular mail at the address below. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 [EndPost by "Hicks, Gretchen D" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Eljnsjr@aol.com] From forens-owner Mon Apr 5 23:31:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i363VVO9011608 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i363VVTg011607 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:31:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: susan.baird@att.net To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Kevorkian's Sentence Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 03:31:16 +0000 Message-Id: <040620040331.23027.407224830007F827000059F32158766720FF9B8D969E9DD1919E8C8A@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 24 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: c3VzYW4uYmFpcmRAYXR0Lm5ldA== Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sir, I do not recall his sentence, but I do know he is still in prison. He is in poor health and has been denied any early release. -- Susan.Baird@att.net > Dear List, > I believe Dr. Kevorkian (better known as Dr. Death) was imprisoned for > televising a case of euthanasia. That was in 1998. Can someone tell me > please, how many years did he get in prison? Is he still in prison? When > is he due to be released? > Thanks. > > Sincerely > Professor Anil Aggrawal > Professor of Forensic Medicine > Maulana Azad Medical College > S-299 Greater Kailash-1 > New Delhi-110048 > INDIA > Phone: 26465460, 26413101 > Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com > Page me via ICQ #19727771 > Websites: > > 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites > http://www.geradts.com/~anil > 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html > 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html > 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page > http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html > 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 > 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html > 7. Forensic Careers > http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html > 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po > > *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I > tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being > called when the top doctors have failed!* > `\|||/ > (@@) > ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ > _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| > ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ > _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ > > > > [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] [EndPost by susan.baird@att.net] From forens-owner Wed Apr 7 07:51:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i37Bp149008913 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i37Bp12W008912 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:51:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: SkipnCar@aol.com Message-ID: <191.27496cfa.2da5451c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:50:52 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Rape kits, again To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5107 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Ed, You make many valid points, and offer good statistics. I believe that each agency should collect the samples which their analyzing laboratory believes to be significant. Carla In a message dated 4/5/2004 11:27:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Eljnsjr@aol.com writes: Dear Carla, I agree that vaginal washes: Add to the examination time. They give very high bacteria counts when allowed to grow. They can leak. I disagree about the dilution comment. Willott et al. found that the collection of liquid saliva samples was more effective than oral swabs for collecting sperm from the mouth. From 61 cases wit h alleged fellatio where both saliva samples and oral swabs were collected, sperm were found in saliva samples 22 times while sperm were found only 10 times on oral swabs. G. M. Willott and M. A. Crosse, "The Detection of Spermatozoa in the Mouth," J. Forensic Sci. Soc., 26 (1985) 125-8. >From an evidential view point the vaginal wash costs only the time and apparatus of collection. The swabs are always collected first followed by the vag wash. I examined many rape kits over a 15 year period and none of the vag washes leaked. The 2 to 3 cc's of saline wash collected with a disposable syringe was placed in a red topped vial (looks like a test tube with a red rubber stopper). All of my kits were refrigerated and examined within 72 hours of collection. I did not see any major differences in bacterial levels between swabs and vag washes. My experience was similar to Willot et al., most of the time, I found higher AP activity and more sperm in the vag washes than in the swabs. From 240 total cases where sperm were graded on both vaginal washings and vaginal swabs, the vaginal washings were graded higher than the vaginal swab in 55 cases or 23% and the reverse (vaginal swab graded higher than vaginal washing) was found in 12 cases or 5%. Fourteen cases or 6.3% found sperm in the vaginal washings when the vaginal swab was negative. Four cases or 1.8% found sperm on the vaginal swab and not in the vaginal washings. In addition there were 12 cases which showed a change of 2 grades or more in sperm rating when comparing results from the two collection techniques, the vaginal washings were higher in all 12 cases. I think Gretchen is on the right path considering vaginal washes. Ed Jones In a message dated 4/5/2004 12:25:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, SkipnCar@aol.com writes: Gretchen, We did away with vaginal washes and oral rinses years ago, way before I retired. - They added to the time of the examination - They gave a very high bacteria count - They were sometimes so dilute that a lot of concentration was needed - Sometimes they leaked Well taken swabs yield enough DNA in most cases. Carla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carla M. Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL 33067 954-796-8063, telephone & fax skipncar@aol.com Live Well Laugh Often Love Much In a message dated 4/5/2004 12:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gretchen.D.Hicks@maine.gov writes: In light of the responses that I received in regards to the numbers of swabs, we are now considering adding vaginal washes and oral rinses to the kits. If your state receives such samples and you have a moment, I would truly appreciate protocols on the collection of those samples, to incorporate into our kit, as well as protocols for handling the samples at the laboratory end and storage / transport. E-mail is sufficient, as well as regular mail at the address below. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Gretchen D. Hicks Forensic Chemist II Maine State Police Crime Laboratory 26 Hospital St. Augusta, ME 04333 P: 207-624-7028 F: 207-624-7123 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] From forens-owner Wed Apr 7 17:49:12 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i37LnCQH021427 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i37LnCVo021426 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Kevorkian's Sentence Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:49:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040407214908.OGGF6643.lakermmtao05.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Here is some interesting info on Dr. Death. The life of 'Dr. Death' Is the world ready for the as-told-to life story of the infamous, enigmatic "Dr. Death" - Jack Kevorkian? Well, get ready. The 75-year-old was convicted and sent to prison in 1999, after assisting at the suicide of a man suffering from Lou Gehrig's disease. Now he is anxious to tell about his passionate advocacy of allowing people a choice in ending their terminal suffering. Two longtime associates of Kevorkian's - Neal Nicol and Harry Wylie - are helping him sort out his thoughts. Literary agent David Vigliano is representing the book, and there is already film talk, with Steve Jones in the producer's slot. Tribune Media Services [EndPost by ] From forens-owner Thu Apr 8 08:31:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i38CVW6K000367 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i38CVVYp000365 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:31:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: Akwekon@aol.com Message-ID: <12b.3eb55b30.2da6a017@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:31:19 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Rape kits, again To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In a message dated 4/7/2004 5:55:19 AM Mountain Daylight Time, SkipnCar@aol.com writes: I believe that each agency should collect the samples which their analyzing laboratory believes to be significant. This point raises an old and contentious issue, that being the question of a conflict between agencies as to what each agency believes to be significant. This issue concerns the pulling of head and pubic hairs of the victim for reference standard purposes (we've gone round and round about this in the ASTM E30.01 sessions on sexual assault investigation standards). In one corner are crime laboratory examiners that insist that they need to see victim reference standard hairs "root to tip." In the other corner are sexual assault examiners that contend that the procedure is a revictimization in that the painful procedure is scientifically useless and that cutting or clipping the hair at the skin line serves the purpose for examination of reference standard hairs equally well. A survey of crime laboratory hair examiners (53 laboratories in the USA and Canada) revealed preferences for victim standard hair collection to be widely variable in terms of how the reference standard hairs were to be collected (pulled versus cut) and how many hairs were needed (a range of from ten to one hundred). That variability alone, asserted the sexual assault examiners, proved the capriciousness of the procedure. Best wishes, Z. G. Standing Bear, Coordinator of Forensic Health Science Programs, Beth-El College of Nursing and Health Sciences, University of Colorado, Colorado Springs, CO --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Akwekon@aol.com] From forens-owner Thu Apr 8 14:08:30 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i38I8UIe008222 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i38I8PaS008215 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:08:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <407593AB.DB9A17A9@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 23:32:19 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dr_anil@hotmail.com Subject: [forens] Forensic Entomology Special Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Sir, The much awaited Forensic Entomology special (edited by Mark Benecke of Germany) is online now. Please visit: http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html Click on Vol. 5, No. 1 (Jan-June 2004). I would love to have your reactions. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 10:19:28 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i39EJSvY023839 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i39EJSrO023838 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:19:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:20:12 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "Patton, David" Subject: Re: [forens] Forensic Entomology Special In-reply-to: <407593AB.DB9A17A9@hotmail.com> To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.5 Build (47-uwe) X-Authentication: IMSP X-NAIMIME-Disclaimer: 1 X-NAIMIME-Modified: 1 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I can download the Goff book review but not the interview, the papers, or Mark Benecke's introduction. It might be my computer! Could you check the .pdf file downloads are still working? Dave On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 23:32:19 +0530 Professor Anil Aggrawal wrote: > Dear Sir, > The much awaited Forensic Entomology special (edited by Mark Benecke of > Germany) is online now. Please visit: > > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html > > Click on Vol. 5, No. 1 (Jan-June 2004). > > I would love to have your reactions. > > Sincerely > Professor Anil Aggrawal > Professor of Forensic Medicine > Maulana Azad Medical College > S-299 Greater Kailash-1 > New Delhi-110048 > INDIA > Phone: 26465460, 26413101 > Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com > Page me via ICQ #19727771 > Websites: > > 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites > http://www.geradts.com/~anil > 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html > 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html > 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page > http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html > 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 > 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html > 7. Forensic Careers > http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html > 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po > > *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I > tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being > called when the top doctors have failed!* > `\|||/ > (@@) > ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ > _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| > ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ > _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ > [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] > > > This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software > ---------------------------------------- Patton, David Email: David.Patton@uwe.ac.uk "University of the West of England" This email has been independently scanned for viruses and any virus detected has been removed using McAfee anti-virus software [EndPost by "Patton, David" ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 12:46:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i39GkxXx027002 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i39Gkx4N027001 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:46:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.0.20040409093022.01e6c8b0@pop.business.earthlink.net> X-Sender: john%calicopress.com@pop.business.earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:46:57 -0700 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: John Houde Subject: [forens] CAC Seminar in Foster City May 3-7 In-Reply-To: References: <407593AB.DB9A17A9@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Forens List I usually wait to announce these meetings too late for you folks to actually plan to go, but this time is DIFFERENT! :-) Details are at www.cacnews.org The next meeting of the California Association of Criminalists is the 103rd Semi-Annual Seminar. The CAC Seminar will take place May 3-7, 2004 at the Crowne Plaza Hotel in Foster City, CA. An excerpt from the CAC mailing to members gives a preview of some of the events planned: On May 3rd, two workshops will be presented. Dr. Steven A. Symes of the Mercyhurst Archaelogical Institute, Mercyhurst College, Erie, PA, will be presenting a full-day workshop on "Anthropology Re: Toolmarks on Bones and The Impact of Fire on the Human Body". Dr. Symes is a recognized expert on forensic tool mark and fracture pattern interpretation. Dr. Robert B. Kimsey, Associate Adjunct Professor of Entomology at University of California at Davis, will present a workshop on "Basic Forensic Entomology, Drug Post-Mortem Interval and the Dorothy Puentes Case. On May 4th, we have three workshops scheduled. An all-day DNA workshop is planned with a number of presentations. Dr. Paul Hermann of the Institute of Forensic Sciences Pathology Group, Oakland, CA, will offer a half-day workshop on "Forensic Pathology." We will be offering a one-day hands-on "Forensic Assessment of Vehicle Fires" workshop to be presented by Steven Mackaig of Steven R. Mackaig and Associates, El Cajon. Mr. Mackaig is a certified fire investigator. Space in this workshop is limited to 15 attendees and will be held at the Forensic Laboratory. (Foster City is a few miles south of San Francisco) [EndPost by John Houde ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 13:37:05 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i39Hb5gb028278 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i39Hb5Be028277 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:37:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <4076DF2C.1C4BC475@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:06:44 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David.Patton@uwe.ac.uk CC: "Mark Benecke (Forensic Entomology)" , "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] Downloading Forensic Entomology Special X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ***Your Original Message*** I can download the Goff book review but not the interview, the papers, or Mark Benecke's introduction. It might be my computer! Could you check the .pdf file downloads are still working? Dave ***End of your Original Message*** Dear Dave, Thanks. I am forwarding your letter to Mark Benecke, the father of this issue. We talked to him about the issue, but he thinks that there has to be a problem at the user's end, because everyone else is able to download. If the problem persists, please let me know, and I will explore the possibility of sending you this 12 MB file on a CD. Please give me your full mailing address. The Goff book review which you have mentioned is on geradts.com, the site on which we run our journal. That explains why you could download it. The papers, interview and the editorial by Mark Benecke are all at Mark's site. Mark, would you please answer Dave's problem, and send a copy to me. It is necessary so I can satisfy a number of other readers who are asking the same question from me. Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 14:40:35 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i39IeZVg029764 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i39IeZkS029763 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:40:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040409183353.41976.qmail@web20607.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:33:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Thompson Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 16:02:17 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i39K2GVO001531 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i39K2GUk001530 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:02:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:02:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Downloading Forensic Entomology Special From: "Mark Benecke" dear collegues i do not know about the programming of the original journal site this is done by prof aggrawal s webmaster i do however know that you can download the complete issue here: http://www.benecke.com/maggots.html if you have questions about the setup and links in the original site of prof aggrawal s excellent journal, please try to contact his webmaster however, maybe the link above is already helpful for you all the best from a peaceful day in germany yours mark Professor Anil Aggrawal said: > ***Your Original Message*** > I can download the Goff book review but not the interview, > the papers, or Mark Benecke's introduction. It might be my > computer! Could you check the .pdf file downloads are > still working? > > Dave > ***End of your Original Message*** > > Dear Dave, > Thanks. I am forwarding your letter to Mark Benecke, the father of this > issue. > > We talked to him about the issue, but he thinks that there has to be a > problem at the user's end, because everyone else is able to download. > > If the problem persists, please let me know, and I will explore the > possibility of sending you this 12 MB file on a CD. Please give me your > full mailing address. > > The Goff book review which you have mentioned is on geradts.com, the > site on which we run our journal. That explains why you could download > it. The papers, interview and > the editorial by Mark Benecke are all at Mark's site. > > Mark, would you please answer Dave's problem, and send a copy to me. It > is necessary so > I can satisfy a number of other readers who are asking the same question > from me. > > > Thanks. > Sincerely > Professor Anil Aggrawal > Professor of Forensic Medicine > Maulana Azad Medical College > S-299 Greater Kailash-1 > New Delhi-110048 > INDIA > Phone: 26465460, 26413101 > Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com > Page me via ICQ #19727771 > Websites: > > 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites > http://www.geradts.com/~anil > 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html > 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. > Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page > http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html > 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 > 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html > 7. Forensic Careers > http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html > 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po > > *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I > tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being > called when the top doctors have failed!* > `\|||/ > (@@) > ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ > _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| > ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ > _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ -- Dipl.-Biol. Dr. rer. medic. Mark Benecke Certified Forensic Biologist Postfach 250411, 50520 Cologne, Germany Cellular Phone & SMS +49 173 287 3136 [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 16:20:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i39KKd25002057 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i39KKdp5002056 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:20:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <000701c41e70$1dc69320$01a41e0a@davelaptop> From: "Dave Khey" To: References: <20040409183353.41976.qmail@web20607.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:20:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Scanned-By: CNS Open Systems Group (http://open-systems.ufl.edu/services/virus-scan/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Honestly, I have never heard of it. For more recourses, check out the American Society of Criminology's website: www.asc41.com I don't even think they recognize it. An alternative can be found at Florida State Univ. www.criminology.fsu.edu Hope this helps, Dave David Khey Graduate Assistant Center for Studies in Criminology and Law Department of Sociology Department of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Florida 201 Walker Hall PO Box 115950 Gainesville, FL 32611-5950 Tel: 352-392-1025 Fax: 352-392-5065 DKhey@ufl.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Thompson" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:33 PM Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice > Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's > online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well > recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with > the program would be appreciated. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] > [EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 19:24:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i39NOmxM003751 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i39NOmmM003750 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:24:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:29:48 -0400 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00d401c41e8a$8cb663e0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <20040409183353.41976.qmail@web20607.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2004 23:24:49.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA37F670:01C41E89] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i39NOmgZ003745 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 21:32:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3A1WeWM004884 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3A1WeFA004883 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:32:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040410013240.74174.qmail@web20608.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:32:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Thompson Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <00d401c41e8a$8cb663e0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Would "Health Sciences" be of any value then? --- Robert Parsons wrote: > I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope > you realize that a > degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are > interested in working in > the forensic science field. I point this out > because this is a forensic > science list, not a criminal justice list, and > students often fail to > realize that the two are completely different > disciplines with very little > in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, > you need to study > science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program > may or may not be > "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important > question might be: is the > program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ > program is "recognized" > as having any value in the forensic science field. > > Bob Parsons, F-ABC > Forensic Chemist > Indian River Crime Laboratory > Ft. Pierce, FL > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Robert Thompson > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice > > Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's > online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well > recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with > the program would be appreciated. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > [EndPost by Robert Thompson > ] > > > [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 9 22:10:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3A2A8Lx005445 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3A2A8JZ005444 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:10:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <000d01c41ea0$eccb3ec0$06ade380@davelaptop> From: "Dave Khey" To: References: <20040410013240.74174.qmail@web20608.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:09:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Scanned-By: CNS Open Systems Group (http://open-systems.ufl.edu/services/virus-scan/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Depends on the program and your goals. Answer us that...and you can get better suggestions of good programs that might suit your needs. If you are interested in the forensic sciences, visit the American Academy of Forensic Science's website at www.aafs.org They have good literature about pursuing a career in one of the many forensic science arenas Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Thompson" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:32 PM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice > Would "Health Sciences" be of any value then? > > --- Robert Parsons wrote: > > I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope > > you realize that a > > degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are > > interested in working in > > the forensic science field. I point this out > > because this is a forensic > > science list, not a criminal justice list, and > > students often fail to > > realize that the two are completely different > > disciplines with very little > > in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, > > you need to study > > science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program > > may or may not be > > "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important > > question might be: is the > > program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ > > program is "recognized" > > as having any value in the forensic science field. > > > > Bob Parsons, F-ABC > > Forensic Chemist > > Indian River Crime Laboratory > > Ft. Pierce, FL > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > > On Behalf Of Robert Thompson > > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM > > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > > Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice > > > > Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's > > online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well > > recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with > > the program would be appreciated. > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > [EndPost by Robert Thompson > > ] > > > > > > [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] > [EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] From forens-owner Sat Apr 10 06:31:08 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3AAV8hC009523 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3AAV7F2009522 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:31:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:29:08 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <00d401c41e8a$8cb663e0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQeio4BRG7+p9H+SNeEd4+yRXeEkgAWjoEg Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I couldn't agree with you more, Bob. As one who is completing a Ba in Criminology, CJA and Forensics, I often wonder why I bothered with criminology. But it was all part of the degree so I had to do it. CJA is fine if you plan on working in the court system (I am in Australia so things may be different here). I finished criminology and was appointed as a lecturer in that and CJA but forensics was where my real interest lay. If anyone needs to discuss the criminology/CJA system, they need to post to the ABP listing, not this one. When I began criminology, I had no idea that there was really not much I could do with it unless I wanted to work as a lecturer (and I do this on a sessional basis but also include profiling CSI and victimology). I then changed to forensics and am now completing, thanks to one of your generous and expert members in the field, blood stain pattern analysis. I am finding this fascinating and feel it will be of great use to me. I also agree that many students fail to understand that these are two different disciplines. The first semester of each new year brings forth hundreds of eager students who have enrolled in criminology and CJA and I can tell you honestly, that more than half of them have dropped out by at least half way (if not sooner) into the first semester. They seem to have the belief (as I did, I must admit!) that this would get one into forensics, CSI etc. These students are usually fresh out of high school and it seems to me that someone should explain to them, when they enrol that this won't get them into forensics. I wonder how many times we have had to explain the difference between the subjects between us, Bob? I have lost count. I am constantly asked (thanks to "CSI") by 13 and 14 year olds, where do I apply to be a CSI when I finish school. Telling them to go to Uni for a few more years nearly devastates them. I suppose if you wish to work in Customs, or the Federal Police, then CJA is useful. But it's not what I was looking for. I feel that some Universities don't explain their courses sufficiently on their brochures, and even on orientation day. You have a great way of explaining the difference. Regards Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2004 9:30 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Sun Apr 11 21:05:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3C152dZ025657 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3C152dJ025656 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:05:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:05:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:12:37 -0500 From: Dale Nute Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Florida State offers an online masters in Criminal Justice but not an online PhD. Dale At 04:20 PM 4/9/2004 -0400, Dave Khey wrote: >Honestly, I have never heard of it. For more recourses, check out the >American Society of Criminology's website: > >www.asc41.com > >I don't even think they recognize it. An alternative can be found at >Florida State Univ. www.criminology.fsu.edu > >Hope this helps, >Dave > > > >David Khey >Graduate Assistant >Center for Studies in Criminology and Law >Department of Sociology >Department of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences >University of Florida >201 Walker Hall >PO Box 115950 >Gainesville, FL 32611-5950 >Tel: 352-392-1025 >Fax: 352-392-5065 >DKhey@ufl.edu >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Thompson" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:33 PM >Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice > > > > Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's > > online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well > > recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with > > the program would be appreciated. > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] > > > >[EndPost by "Dave Khey" ] [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 12 09:33:26 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3CDXPnQ002312 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3CDXPtZ002311 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:33:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:33:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1C65F50A3B7645438D56254D361EBF0112653E@AHIEXCHSVR.ahi.armorholdings.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Thread-Index: AcQeir/29OVSF+8DTTybhThIcKdFnQCBy3MQ From: "Allen Miller" To: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i3CDXPoN002306 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Real life situation: My wife graduated with a BS in Criminology. Ended up with 20+ years in advertising. I graduated with a BS in Chemistry. Ended up with 20+ years in Crime Scene with FDLE. She studied everything in college that I ultimately used in my day-to-day work. (I studied no "crime science" in college) But because she did not have a major in a hard science, she was not considered a candidate. Hope this helps those that are undecided about a studies and career choice. Remember, ultimately you are scientists, not philosophers. Allen Miller Forensic Technical Manager Armor Forensics 13386 International Parkway Jacksonville, Florida 32218 904-741-1787 amiller@armorholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] [EndPost by "Allen Miller" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 12 11:55:42 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3CFtgVj005631 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3CFtgAN005630 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:55:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <004001c420a6$96090510$2602a8c0@fyreatr> From: "Donna Brandelli" To: References: <1C65F50A3B7645438D56254D361EBF0112653E@AHIEXCHSVR.ahi.armorholdings.local> Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:55:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i3CFtgVj005632 I know everyone keeps advocating hard science, hard science. I got my job at the Los Angeles County Crime Lab with a B.S. in Criminal Justice. I have been working there for 6 years. I perform major crime scene investigations (officer involved shootings, homicides, multi victim homicides, rapes, robberies, etc.) We have had several officer involved shootings and multiple victim homicides in the last 2 months. I've been involved with all the multiple victim homicides and 3 of the officer involved shootings (we've had many more than that). I also do chemical processing as my "day job", perform fingerprint comparisons and testify as an expert witness. Since going to the lab I have obtained my Master's degree in Forensic Science, and I am currently working on my PhD. I wrote the policy and procedures manual for the Identification and Chemical sections and go out and conduct crime scene preservation training to outside agencies, as well as those in our department requesting it. I also teach in Criminal Justice programs. So, in short, it depends on the agency and it depends on what you want to do. The criminalists, for the majority of their job duites, perform laboratory analysis. Very few go out on crime scenes and they go out on far fewer crime scenes than the Identification section. Many of the criminalists don't want to go out in the field and deal with CSI functions. They would rather stay in the lab and work "normal" day time hours. What I always suggest to those that ask me is go to different websites of agencies you think you might want to work. Some people are limited to areas, some don't mind traveling. Check out their various requirements for the job that you want to do. That gives you some idea of the requirements, which in turn may help you direct your education. I hope that adds a different perspective. Donna Brandelli "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Miller To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Real life situation: My wife graduated with a BS in Criminology. Ended up with 20+ years in advertising. I graduated with a BS in Chemistry. Ended up with 20+ years in Crime Scene with FDLE. She studied everything in college that I ultimately used in my day-to-day work. (I studied no "crime science" in college) But because she did not have a major in a hard science, she was not considered a candidate. Hope this helps those that are undecided about a studies and career choice. Remember, ultimately you are scientists, not philosophers. Allen Miller Forensic Technical Manager Armor Forensics 13386 International Parkway Jacksonville, Florida 32218 904-741-1787 amiller@armorholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] [EndPost by "Allen Miller" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 12 12:51:09 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3CGp9O9006593 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3CGp9gt006592 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:51:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <006d01c420ae$5712ba60$58b3fea9@director> From: "Dr Elahi" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] expert in swab drug testing for attorney Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:20:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Ms. Kupferberg: You can talk to Donald B. Hoffman, Ph.D., DABFT. His email address is HoffTox@aol.com. N. Elahi, Ph.D. Director, Yonkers Forensic Science Laboratory ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Kupferberg" To: Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:02 AM Subject: [forens] expert in swab drug testing for attorney > I have recently received a request from an attorney for referral to an > expert in swab drug testing? Any recommendations are appreciated.... > > > Thanks in advance, > Melissa Kupferberg > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > [EndPost by "Melissa Kupferberg" ] [EndPost by "Dr Elahi" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 12 18:36:32 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3CMaWbC013949 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3CMaWRQ013948 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:36:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:32:14 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <1C65F50A3B7645438D56254D361EBF0112653E@AHIEXCHSVR.ahi.armorholdings.local> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQeir/29OVSF+8DTTybhThIcKdFnQCBy3MQABLin5A= Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I'm still trying to work out why I studied criminology/CJA! Unless you plan on lecturing criminology, there's nothing else to do. Sure, you may be able to quote the 50,000 different theories, (Chicago school, positivists etc) of why people commit crime - but ultimately, who cares? Nobody! You bore them to do death! You won't be admitted to any Forensic Society on the strength of criminology/CJA. So I plodded through forensics as well, determined to get what I thought I was getting to begin with - a Ba in forensics! Nobody explains things properly at Universities - just as long as "bums fill seats"! Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Allen Miller Sent: Monday, 12 April 2004 11:33 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Real life situation: My wife graduated with a BS in Criminology. Ended up with 20+ years in advertising. I graduated with a BS in Chemistry. Ended up with 20+ years in Crime Scene with FDLE. She studied everything in college that I ultimately used in my day-to-day work. (I studied no "crime science" in college) But because she did not have a major in a hard science, she was not considered a candidate. Hope this helps those that are undecided about a studies and career choice. Remember, ultimately you are scientists, not philosophers. Allen Miller Forensic Technical Manager Armor Forensics 13386 International Parkway Jacksonville, Florida 32218 904-741-1787 amiller@armorholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] [EndPost by "Allen Miller" ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 12 18:40:50 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3CMeoUG014250 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3CMeo8T014249 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:40:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:37:53 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <004001c420a6$96090510$2602a8c0@fyreatr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQgq2bVxA+nHHTURhWsSqpJw2NOkAAMu/0w Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Good for you! I like determination! I am meant to be doing an internship in your Crime Lab next year, but at this stage I'm not sure if I can make it. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Brandelli Sent: Tuesday, 13 April 2004 1:56 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I know everyone keeps advocating hard science, hard science. I got my job at the Los Angeles County Crime Lab with a B.S. in Criminal Justice. I have been working there for 6 years. I perform major crime scene investigations (officer involved shootings, homicides, multi victim homicides, rapes, robberies, etc.) We have had several officer involved shootings and multiple victim homicides in the last 2 months. I've been involved with all the multiple victim homicides and 3 of the officer involved shootings (we've had many more than that). I also do chemical processing as my "day job", perform fingerprint comparisons and testify as an expert witness. Since going to the lab I have obtained my Master's degree in Forensic Science, and I am currently working on my PhD. I wrote the policy and procedures manual for the Identification and Chemical sections and go out and conduct crime scene preservation training to outside agencies, as well as those in our department request! ing it. I also teach in Criminal Justice programs. So, in short, it depends on the agency and it depends on what you want to do. The criminalists, for the majority of their job duites, perform laboratory analysis. Very few go out on crime scenes and they go out on far fewer crime scenes than the Identification section. Many of the criminalists don't want to go out in the field and deal with CSI functions. They would rather stay in the lab and work "normal" day time hours. What I always suggest to those that ask me is go to different websites of agencies you think you might want to work. Some people are limited to areas, some don't mind traveling. Check out their various requirements for the job that you want to do. That gives you some idea of the requirements, which in turn may help you direct your education. I hope that adds a different perspective. Donna Brandelli "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Miller To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Real life situation: My wife graduated with a BS in Criminology. Ended up with 20+ years in advertising. I graduated with a BS in Chemistry. Ended up with 20+ years in Crime Scene with FDLE. She studied everything in college that I ultimately used in my day-to-day work. (I studied no "crime science" in college) But because she did not have a major in a hard science, she was not considered a candidate. Hope this helps those that are undecided about a studies and career choice. Remember, ultimately you are scientists, not philosophers. Allen Miller Forensic Technical Manager Armor Forensics 13386 International Parkway Jacksonville, Florida 32218 904-741-1787 amiller@armorholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] [EndPost by "Allen Miller" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Mon Apr 12 23:15:29 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3D3FTUg017192 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3D3FTIn017191 for forens-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:15:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <002701c42105$8d4c56c0$2602a8c0@fyreatr> From: "Donna Brandelli" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:15:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i3D3FTUg017193 well, look me up if you get there. Donna Brandelli "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn Coceani To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Good for you! I like determination! I am meant to be doing an internship in your Crime Lab next year, but at this stage I'm not sure if I can make it. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Brandelli Sent: Tuesday, 13 April 2004 1:56 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I know everyone keeps advocating hard science, hard science. I got my job at the Los Angeles County Crime Lab with a B.S. in Criminal Justice. I have been working there for 6 years. I perform major crime scene investigations (officer involved shootings, homicides, multi victim homicides, rapes, robberies, etc.) We have had several officer involved shootings and multiple victim homicides in the last 2 months. I've been involved with all the multiple victim homicides and 3 of the officer involved shootings (we've had many more than that). I also do chemical processing as my "day job", perform fingerprint comparisons and testify as an expert witness. Since going to the lab I have obtained my Master's degree in Forensic Science, and I am currently working on my PhD. I wrote the policy and procedures manual for the Identification and Chemical sections and go out and conduct crime scene preservation training to outside agencies, as well as those in our department request! ing it. I also teach in Criminal Justice programs. So, in short, it depends on the agency and it depends on what you want to do. The criminalists, for the majority of their job duites, perform laboratory analysis. Very few go out on crime scenes and they go out on far fewer crime scenes than the Identification section. Many of the criminalists don't want to go out in the field and deal with CSI functions. They would rather stay in the lab and work "normal" day time hours. What I always suggest to those that ask me is go to different websites of agencies you think you might want to work. Some people are limited to areas, some don't mind traveling. Check out their various requirements for the job that you want to do. That gives you some idea of the requirements, which in turn may help you direct your education. I hope that adds a different perspective. Donna Brandelli "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Miller To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Real life situation: My wife graduated with a BS in Criminology. Ended up with 20+ years in advertising. I graduated with a BS in Chemistry. Ended up with 20+ years in Crime Scene with FDLE. She studied everything in college that I ultimately used in my day-to-day work. (I studied no "crime science" in college) But because she did not have a major in a hard science, she was not considered a candidate. Hope this helps those that are undecided about a studies and career choice. Remember, ultimately you are scientists, not philosophers. Allen Miller Forensic Technical Manager Armor Forensics 13386 International Parkway Jacksonville, Florida 32218 904-741-1787 amiller@armorholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] [EndPost by "Allen Miller" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] From forens-owner Tue Apr 13 06:53:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3DArxDx021429 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3DArxcU021428 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:53:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:52:20 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <002701c42105$8d4c56c0$2602a8c0@fyreatr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQhBjN0BuLe89jxTf+JfIN2kA3JogAPWezw Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Thanks, Donna. I sure will. You know, I finish my Ba in CJA and Criminology this year - I've already completed forensics. (I've already gone on about this subject before I believe but I doubt very much, actually I'm certain, I couldn't get a position like you have on the strength of a Ba in Crim and CJA. You have the job that many of us would like to be able to get but in Australia, ha! No hope with a degree in these subjects! You NEED forensics. You are certainly lucky that you had a chance to be able to go on to obtain your Masters in Forensics while working in a job that you like. I think they have 'tunnel vision' in this country - if you haven't studied forensics, you'd hardly get a job like yours. Even having studied it for what seems like centuries, it's hard. I am fortunate that my sister lives in LA and has for over 30 years and is willing to support me, give me her car etc., or I doubt I would even have been given an opportunity to meet Barry Fisher (who I just adore!) and spend two hours with him showing me around the whole place. I know that they receive hundreds of applications for internships every year, but I don't know that there are many that are from Australia (thanks, Jerry!) I do sessional lecturing myself on CSI, profiling, victimology etc etc but that's not what I want - I want a more "hands on" position. You are very lucky and I wish you all the best. As I said I doubt that an opportunity like that even be considered in Australia. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Brandelli Sent: Tuesday, 13 April 2004 1:15 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice well, look me up if you get there. Donna Brandelli "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn Coceani To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Good for you! I like determination! I am meant to be doing an internship in your Crime Lab next year, but at this stage I'm not sure if I can make it. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Brandelli Sent: Tuesday, 13 April 2004 1:56 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I know everyone keeps advocating hard science, hard science. I got my job at the Los Angeles County Crime Lab with a B.S. in Criminal Justice. I have been working there for 6 years. I perform major crime scene investigations (officer involved shootings, homicides, multi victim homicides, rapes, robberies, etc.) We have had several officer involved shootings and multiple victim homicides in the last 2 months. I've been involved with all the multiple victim homicides and 3 of the officer involved shootings (we've had many more than that). I also do chemical processing as my "day job", perform fingerprint comparisons and testify as an expert witness. Since going to the lab I have obtained my Master's degree in Forensic Science, and I am currently working on my PhD. I wrote the policy and procedures manual for the Identification and Chemical sections and go out and conduct crime scene preservation training to outside agencies, as well as those in our department request! ing it. I also teach in Criminal Justice programs. So, in short, it depends on the agency and it depends on what you want to do. The criminalists, for the majority of their job duites, perform laboratory analysis. Very few go out on crime scenes and they go out on far fewer crime scenes than the Identification section. Many of the criminalists don't want to go out in the field and deal with CSI functions. They would rather stay in the lab and work "normal" day time hours. What I always suggest to those that ask me is go to different websites of agencies you think you might want to work. Some people are limited to areas, some don't mind traveling. Check out their various requirements for the job that you want to do. That gives you some idea of the requirements, which in turn may help you direct your education. I hope that adds a different perspective. Donna Brandelli "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Miller To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Real life situation: My wife graduated with a BS in Criminology. Ended up with 20+ years in advertising. I graduated with a BS in Chemistry. Ended up with 20+ years in Crime Scene with FDLE. She studied everything in college that I ultimately used in my day-to-day work. (I studied no "crime science" in college) But because she did not have a major in a hard science, she was not considered a candidate. Hope this helps those that are undecided about a studies and career choice. Remember, ultimately you are scientists, not philosophers. Allen Miller Forensic Technical Manager Armor Forensics 13386 International Parkway Jacksonville, Florida 32218 904-741-1787 amiller@armorholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] [EndPost by "Allen Miller" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Tue Apr 13 10:53:27 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3DErRqi026167 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3DErRP9026166 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:53:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: TeknoBeck@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:53:19 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Digital Forensics To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5106 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hello everyone, I'm new to the group. I have been reading the "PHD in criminal justice" e-mails and they have been a real eye opener for me. I appreciate all the input. I'm wondering if anyone has any good information or web sites that would give me information on digital forensics. I have a background in computers and I am interested in learning more about the digital forensics career track. Thanks, Becky Goslee Pennsylvania --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by TeknoBeck@aol.com] From forens-owner Tue Apr 13 19:02:10 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3DN2AmX006355 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3DN29ep006354 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:02:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:05:38 +1000 From: Bentley Atchison Subject: [forens] Forensic training To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6BC4DCAD6F0B0F48BC8102EF5D24AFEF012187@svexchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: Forensic training Thread-Index: AcQhq9Y4AfCsju+8RDGqYr3PqZM4uw== content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Lyn Coceani, I take you have not graduated in CJA and Criminology and you have not worked in a forensic science laboratory. I thought you were also still learning by correspondence about profiling and blood splash pattern interpretation. Yet your university has you lecturing in "CSI, profiling, victimology etc". Could you please tell us what university this is and in what course you lecture ? I would like to contact the university. Dr. Bentley Atchison Manager, Molecular Biology --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Bentley Atchison ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 14 03:05:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3E75pZP011805 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3E75pCT011804 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:05:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [66.61.75.76] X-Originating-Email: [shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com] X-Sender: shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com From: "shaun wheeler" To: References: <6BC4DCAD6F0B0F48BC8102EF5D24AFEF012187@svexchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Subject: Re: [forens] Forensic training Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:19:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Apr 2004 02:17:49.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[AEE80920:01C421C6] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Can't possibly be the prestigious Bond University, can it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bentley Atchison" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: [forens] Forensic training > Lyn Coceani, > > I take you have not graduated in CJA and Criminology and you have not > worked in a forensic science laboratory. I thought you were also still > learning by correspondence about profiling and blood splash pattern > interpretation. Yet your university has you lecturing in "CSI, > profiling, victimology etc". > > Could you please tell us what university this is and in what course you > lecture ? I would like to contact the university. > > Dr. Bentley Atchison > > Manager, Molecular Biology [EndPost by "shaun wheeler" ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 14 03:29:07 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3E7T7Wt012328 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3E7T7jC012327 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:29:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [66.61.75.76] X-Originating-Email: [shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com] X-Sender: shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com From: "shaun wheeler" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:29:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Apr 2004 02:27:36.0555 (UTC) FILETIME=[0CD30BB0:01C421C8] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Lynn: It is unfortunate to read of your situation and my heart goes out to you. Perhaps you should emulate the methods of your mentor and put up a website selling instruction over the internet for courses in forensics? I note that his complete lack of experience in any lab hasn't slowed his progress. Indeed, his business has formed associations with noted criminalist Jerry Chisum, Keith Inman and Norah Rudin. I'm sure with a well constructed website you can be the Australian equivalent and be yet another internet success story! Shaun ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice > I'm still trying to work out why I studied criminology/CJA! Unless you plan > on lecturing criminology, there's nothing else to do. Sure, you may be able > to quote the 50,000 different theories, (Chicago school, positivists etc) of > why people commit crime - but ultimately, who cares? Nobody! You bore them > to do death! You won't be admitted to any Forensic Society on the strength > of criminology/CJA. So I plodded through forensics as well, determined to > get what I thought I was getting to begin with - a Ba in forensics! Nobody > explains things properly at Universities - just as long as "bums fill > seats"! > > > Lynn > [EndPost by "shaun wheeler" ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 14 05:45:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3E9jwfs013397 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3E9jw01013396 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:45:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f XAntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses via the Connexus Internet Service From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Forensic training Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:43:35 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <6BC4DCAD6F0B0F48BC8102EF5D24AFEF012187@svexchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcQhq9Y4AfCsju+8RDGqYr3PqZM4uwAUYtTg Disposition-Notification-To: "Lynn Coceani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dr Atchison, I would gladly answer your questions but I don't need smart alec remarks from Shaun Wheeler, who knows nothing at all about me, on a listing like this. I apologise for the brevity of this email but I've explained above why I won't answer anything else. I have been on Special Consideration due to serious illness since last September. I do NOT do anything by correspondence. I was a SESSIONAL lecturer, and not in CSI or anything forensic related. I'm sorry if I sound disrespectful, it is not intended. You and I have had discussions about this before and I thought I had answered all your questions. All my plans have been put on hold - for how long, I have no idea. Regards Lynn PS If I get any replies from MR Wheeler, I will simply remove myself from the listing. I had intended to do this anyway because of family and health problems. It is becoming more difficult to sit at a computer and wade through all these emails. Unfortunately there are people on this listing who I will miss hearing from but that can't be helped. So, if you want to write to me, you have my email address I believe but please be patient - it takes me longer to answer at the moment. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 14 13:14:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3EHEDoP021299 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3EHEDla021298 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <20040414171359.20130.qmail@web14701.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Sliter Subject: [forens] Job Opening - Supervisor/DNA Technical Leader To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu JOB ANNOUNCEMENT SENIOR FORENSIC BIOLOGIST The Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences seeks applicants for the position of Senior Forensic Biologist. This position provides daily administrative and technical supervision to a fourteen-member laboratory performing biological evidence screening, serological testing, short tandem repeat DNA testing, and mitochondrial DNA testing. Responsibilities include: planning, assigning and coordinating work assignments; designing and implementing training programs; supervising, evaluating and training staff; participating in the development and administration of the budget; developing and implementing laboratory policies and procedures; participating in quality assurance activities including audits; monitoring work activities to ensure compliance with policies and procedures; reviewing and approving analytical testing reports; acting as a technical resource and providing continuing education for medical examiners, investigators, and attorneys; making recommendations for changes and improvements; preparing and administering grants; acting as a media contact on issues related to forensic science; performing analytical testing; and providing court testimony. This position will act as DNA technical leader/manager and in that capacity will: oversee quality assurance, safety, and training of DNA staff; perform technical problem solving and evaluation of all DNA methods used; and review proficiency testing. This position also includes a faculty appointment in the Pathology Department of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center and related academic responsibilities. The successful applicant must be approved by the University of Texas, Southwestern Medical School. Minimum qualifications are: a doctorate degree in Biology, Biochemistry, Genetics, Molecular Biology, or a related discipline; ability to satisfy the educational requirements for DNA technical leader position; three years laboratory work experience. Previous experience in laboratory management, and in the preparation and administration of grants is highly desirable. A background check, including a criminal history review, will be performed. The selected applicant must establish residence in Dallas County. Salary range: $4,137-$4,964/mo. Further information and online application materials are available at: http://www.dallascounty.org. Deadline for applications: none; applications will be accepted until the position is filled. CONTACT: Timothy J. Sliter, Ph.D. Chief of Physical Evidence Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences 5230 Medical Center Drive Dallas, Texas 75235 214-920-5980 FAX: 214-920-5813 Email: tsliter@dallascounty.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Tim Sliter ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 14 17:17:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3ELH2NF026887 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3ELH27l026886 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:17:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:16:56 -0400 From: "Pamela Shaw" To: Subject: [forens] Job Opportunities Baltimore Police Laboratory Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i3ELH2NF026888 Please see the attached. Pamela K. Shaw Phone - 410.396.2668 Fax - 410.783.5194 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/pdf --- [EndPost by "Pamela Shaw" ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 14 17:46:21 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3ELkL9t027585 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3ELkLhs027584 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:46:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:46:10 -0400 From: "Pamela Shaw" To: Subject: [forens] Job Opportunities Baltimore Police Department Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i3ELkKkd027579 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu (Note: I'm resending this as it appears that the attachment was stripped off) Job Opportunities Baltimore Police Department Laboratory Section Baltimore, Maryland The Laboratory Section of the Baltimore Police Department has job opportunities for contractual employees. These positions are funded by a Federal grant and offer no benefits package. Interested persons should send their resume, transcript, references and applicable certificates to Mark Profili, Criminalist Supervisor, Trace/Biology Unit, Laboratory Section, Baltimore Police Department 242 W. 29th Street, Baltimore, Maryland 21211. All applications must be postmarked by May 15, 2004. Applicants are subject to a background investigation, polygraph and substance abuse testing For a detailed position description or more information call 410?396?2562, Monday ? Friday 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. or e?mail Mark.Profili@Baltimorepolice.org. These job announcements close May 15, 2004. q One ? year Contractual Serologist Technician Baltimore Police Department, Baltimore, Maryland The Baltimore Police Laboratory is searching for contractual serologists to perform body fluid analysis on evidence prior to undergoing DNA testing. Terms of the contract include a per case payment schedule. Serologists work under the supervision of a Trace Analysis/Biology Supervisor. Candidates must have superior integrity, analytical thinking, public speaking and interpersonal skills. Minimum requirements are college level coursework in Criminalistics, Biology, Chemistry, Physics or a related science. Prior training or experience is desirable. Applicants must pass a qualifying test and/or interview. q One ? year contractual Evidence Technician $32,000/year Baltimore Police Department, Baltimore, Maryland The Baltimore Police Laboratory is searching for an Evidence Technician to identify, locate, transport, store, and prepare for outsourcing evidence being requested for serology and DNA examinations. This is a full time position with a conventional workweek. Serologists work under the supervision of a Trace Analysis/Biology Supervisor. Candidates must have computer skills in Microsoft Office (Word, Access, and Excel) and the ability to transfer that knowledge to other computer applications. Candidates must have superior integrity, public speaking and interpersonal skills. Minimum requirements are college level coursework in Criminal Justice, Criminalistics, Biology, Chemistry, Physics or a related science, the ability to pass a qualifying test and/ or interview. q One ? year contractual DNA Technician $50,000/year Baltimore Police Department, Baltimore, Maryland The Baltimore Police Laboratory is searching for DNA Technicians to perform analysis of evidentiary items using established forensic DNA isolation, quantitation and amplification procedures that are in compliance with the national standards. This is a full time position with a conventional workweek. DNA Technicians work under the supervision of a DNA Examiner, Technical Leader and Trace Analysis/ Biology Supervisor during the analysis of forensic evidence samples. Candidates must have computer skills in Microsoft Office (Word, Access, and Excel) and the ability to transfer that knowledge to other computer applications. Experience with ABI Genetic Analyzer/Real Time STR software is desirable. Candidates must have superior integrity, public speaking and interpersonal skills. Minimum requirements are a bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university in forensic science, biochemistry, chemistry, biology, physics or a closely related science including or supplemented by college course work in molecular biology, genetics and biochemistry or other subjects which provide a basic understanding of the foundation of forensic DNA analysis as well as course work and/or training in statistics and/or population genetics as it applies to forensic DNA analysis. q One ? year contractual CODIS Data Entry Operator position $40,000/year Baltimore Police Department, Baltimore, Maryland The Baltimore Police Laboratory is searching for a certified DNA Examiner to perform entry of profiles into CODIS. This work involves reviewing the CODIS evaluation forms and DNA case folders for accuracy and completeness in accordance with the appropriate DNA Technical Manual, entering DNA profiles into the local database, maintaining system records and all relevant paperwork. This is a full time position with a conventional workweek. The CODIS Data Entry Operator works under the supervision of a CODIS Manager, Technical Leader and Trace Analysis/Biology Supervisor. Candidates must have computer skills in Microsoft Office (Word, Access, and Excel). Experience with Common Message Files (CMF) for Excel is desirable. Knowledge of ABI Genetic Analyzer/Real Time STR software and/or CODIS experience is desirable. Candidates must have superior integrity, public speaking and interpersonal skills. Minimum requirements are: 1) a bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university in forensic science, biochemistry, chemistry, biology, physics or a closely related science including or supplemented by college course work in molecular biology, genetics and biochemistry or other subjects which provide a basic understanding of the foundation of forensic DNA analysis as well as course work and/or training in statistics and/or population genetics as it applies to forensic DNA analysis. 2) Completion of six months of forensic DNA laboratory experience, including the successful analysis of a range of samples typically encountered in forensic case work prior to independent case work analysis using DNA technology and 3) the successful completion of a qualifying test. In addition to a background investigation by the Baltimore Police Department, applicants must pass a Federal background check for access to CODIS and must successfully complete semi-annual DNA proficiency tests. q One ? year contractual * DNA Technical Reviewer position $50,000/year Baltimore Police Department, Baltimore, Maryland The Baltimore Police Laboratory is searching for a certified DNA Examiner to perform technical reviews of DNA case folders from no-suspect cases outsourced to private DNA laboratories. This work involves reviewing the CODIS evaluation forms and DNA case folders for accuracy and completeness in accordance with the appropriate DNA Technical Manual.. This is a full time position with a conventional workweek. The DNA Technical Reviewer works under the supervision of a Technical Leader and Trace Analysis/Biology Supervisor. Candidates must have computer skills in Microsoft Office (Word, Access, and Excel). Knowledge of ABI Genetic Analyzer/Real Time STR software and/or CODIS experience is desirable. Candidates must have superior integrity, public speaking and interpersonal skills. Minimum requirements are: 1) a bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university in forensic science, biochemistry, chemistry, biology, physics or a closely related science including or supplemented by college course work in molecular biology, genetics and biochemistry or other subjects which provide a basic understanding of the foundation of forensic DNA analysis as well as course work and/or training in statistics and/or population genetics as it applies to forensic DNA analysis. 2) Completion of six months of forensic DNA laboratory experience, including the successful analysis of a range of samples typically encountered in forensic case work prior to independent case work analysis using DNA technology and 3) the successful completion of a qualifying test. In addition to a background investigation by the Baltimore Police Department, applicants must successfully complete semi-annual DNA proficiency tests. Pamela K. Shaw Phone - 410.396.2668 Fax - 410.783.5194 [EndPost by "Pamela Shaw" ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 14 19:13:33 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3ENDXY7029231 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3ENDXig029230 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:13:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:15:09 +1000 From: Bentley Atchison Subject: RE: [forens] Forensic training To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6BC4DCAD6F0B0F48BC8102EF5D24AFEF01218A@svexchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: [forens] Forensic training Thread-Index: AcQhq9Y4AfCsju+8RDGqYr3PqZM4uwAUYtTgABzzU0A= content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Unfortunately, this situation gets stranger by the minute. Lynn, you said in your last email to the Forens-L "I do sessional lecturing myself on CSI, profiling, victimology etc etc but that's not what I want - I want a more "hands on" position". Now you say "I was a SESSIONAL lecturer, and not in CSI or anything forensic related". You also say "I do NOT do anything by correspondence". I take it then you are NOT studying blood splash pattern interpretation and profiling (see previous emails) by "distance learning" and instead attend lectures in Melbourne. I, for one, certainly would be interested where these are being given. Truly, I don't know what to make of this. Anyway, for the information of others I gather the courses Lynn is talking about are from the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology University (Criminal Justice Administration) and Swinburne University (Certificate in forensic science). The WEB sites of these Universities list the course content. For the information of those overseas, undergraduate Australian courses can be ranked in order as Bachelors degree with honours, Bachelors degree, diploma and then certificate. Other information All forensic labs in Australia are accredited and the education requirements are mandated by the National Association of Testing Authorities. Briefly, analysts in chemistry and biology must have a Bachelor degree or equivalent in a field of science whereas examiners in the fields of firearms, document examination, fingerprints and CSI should hold a bachelors degree in a field of science(5.2.1 of the guidelines). There are clauses which allow for non-degree courses under some circumstances. Police officers employed at the laboratory can be involved in CSI and firearms examination. I hope this clarifies the standard of scientific training required to work in forensic science in Australia. Dr. Bentley Atchison Manager, Molecular Biology -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Lynn Coceani Sent: Wednesday, 14 April 2004 7:44 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Forensic training Dr Atchison, I would gladly answer your questions but I don't need smart alec remarks from Shaun Wheeler, who knows nothing at all about me, on a listing like this. I apologise for the brevity of this email but I've explained above why I won't answer anything else. I have been on Special Consideration due to serious illness since last September. I do NOT do anything by correspondence. I was a SESSIONAL lecturer, and not in CSI or anything forensic related. I'm sorry if I sound disrespectful, it is not intended. You and I have had discussions about this before and I thought I had answered all your questions. All my plans have been put on hold - for how long, I have no idea. Regards Lynn PS If I get any replies from MR Wheeler, I will simply remove myself from the listing. I had intended to do this anyway because of family and health problems. It is becoming more difficult to sit at a computer and wade through all these emails. Unfortunately there are people on this listing who I will miss hearing from but that can't be helped. So, if you want to write to me, you have my email address I believe but please be patient - it takes me longer to answer at the moment. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] [EndPost by Bentley Atchison ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 14 19:31:37 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3ENVbcQ029759 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3ENVbWI029758 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <017401c42278$a06fadf0$309c3d42@ERT1> From: "Mike Wise" To: References: <6BC4DCAD6F0B0F48BC8102EF5D24AFEF01218A@svexchange.vifp.monash.edu.au> Subject: Re: [forens] Forensic training Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:31:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I think she was saying that she lectures on CSI work but now she wants to actually get involved in doing the work. What I don't understand is that I think she claimed in the past that she was a CS Investigator "working with the LAPD in East LA". As for the correspondence courses, I suspect that has something to do with her use of Knowledge Solutions (Turvey, et al), which might also explain her problem with Shaun Wheeler. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bentley Atchison" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [forens] Forensic training > Unfortunately, this situation gets stranger by the minute. > > Lynn, you said in your last email to the Forens-L > > "I do sessional lecturing myself on CSI, profiling, victimology etc etc > but that's not what I want - I want a more "hands on" position". > > Now you say "I was a SESSIONAL lecturer, and not in CSI or anything > forensic related". > > You also say "I do NOT do anything by correspondence". I take it then > you are NOT studying blood splash pattern interpretation and profiling > (see previous emails) by "distance learning" and instead attend lectures > in Melbourne. I, for one, certainly would be interested where these are > being given. > > Truly, I don't know what to make of this. > > > Anyway, for the information of others I gather the courses Lynn is > talking about are from the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology > University (Criminal Justice Administration) and Swinburne University > (Certificate in forensic science). The WEB sites of these Universities > list the course content. For the information of those overseas, > undergraduate Australian courses can be ranked in order as Bachelors > degree with honours, Bachelors degree, diploma and then certificate. > > Other information > > All forensic labs in Australia are accredited and the education > requirements are mandated by the National Association of Testing > Authorities. Briefly, analysts in chemistry and biology must have a > Bachelor degree or equivalent in a field of science whereas examiners in > the fields of firearms, document examination, fingerprints and CSI > should hold a bachelors degree in a field of science(5.2.1 of the > guidelines). There are clauses which allow for non-degree courses under > some circumstances. Police officers employed at the laboratory can be > involved in CSI and firearms examination. > > I hope this clarifies the standard of scientific training required to > work in forensic science in Australia. > > Dr. Bentley Atchison > Manager, Molecular Biology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Lynn Coceani > Sent: Wednesday, 14 April 2004 7:44 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: [forens] Forensic training > > > Dr Atchison, > > I would gladly answer your questions but I don't need smart alec remarks > from Shaun Wheeler, who knows nothing at all about me, on a listing like > this. > > I apologise for the brevity of this email but I've explained above why I > won't answer anything else. I have been on Special Consideration due > to > serious illness since last September. I do NOT do anything by > correspondence. I was a SESSIONAL lecturer, and not in CSI or anything > forensic related. > > I'm sorry if I sound disrespectful, it is not intended. You and I have > had discussions about this before and I thought I had answered all your > questions. All my plans have been put on hold - for how long, I have no > idea. > > Regards > > Lynn > > PS If I get any replies from MR Wheeler, I will simply remove myself > from the listing. I had intended to do this anyway because of family and > health problems. It is becoming more difficult to sit at a computer and > wade through all these emails. Unfortunately there are people on this > listing who I will miss hearing from but that can't be helped. So, if > you want to write to me, you have my email address I believe but please > be patient - it takes me longer to answer at the moment. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 > > > [EndPost by "Lynn Coceani" ] > [EndPost by Bentley Atchison ] > > [EndPost by "Mike Wise" ] From forens-owner Thu Apr 15 04:24:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3F8O4Mt005517 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3F8O4ew005516 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:24:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [66.61.75.76] X-Originating-Email: [shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com] X-Sender: shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com From: "shaun wheeler" To: References: Subject: Re: [forens] Forensic training Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:21:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Apr 2004 03:21:07.0773 (UTC) FILETIME=[B145C6D0:01C42298] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Lynn: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Coceani" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:43 AM Subject: RE: [forens] Forensic training > Dr Atchison, > > I would gladly answer your questions but I don't need smart alec remarks > from Shaun Wheeler, who knows nothing at all about me, on a listing like > this. Maybe you missed this, but you've stated things as fact on this list, not the least of which was your work as a lecturer, the subject of Dr. Atchison's query. If the information you posted was truthful, then you are in error stating that I know "nothing at all about you". If your statement was false or obfuscatory, as now appears to be the case, then I still know something about you, even if you intended otherwise. snip...... > PS If I get any replies from MR Wheeler, I will simply remove myself from > the listing. I had intended to do this anyway because of family and health > problems. This is unfortunate news. The "Forensic Fraud" articles just won't be the same without you running interference. [EndPost by "shaun wheeler" ] From forens-owner Thu Apr 15 08:31:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3FCVpEK007748 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3FCVpua007747 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:31:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: TeknoBeck@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:31:40 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Knowledge Solutions To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5106 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Hello again, What is the story on the knowledge Solutions courses? Has anyone taken any? Are they worthwhile? Becky --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by TeknoBeck@aol.com] From forens-owner Thu Apr 15 10:41:52 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3FEfqtK010540 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3FEfqwI010539 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:41:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: SkipnCar@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.3205ab70.2daff921@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:41:37 EDT Subject: [forens] Request for Assistance To: ascld@lab.fws.gov, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5107 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors has published a newsletter since the 1970s. This was a paper publication until just recently when the electronic edition was begun. At the request of Roger Kahn, President of the American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors, the Historical/Archives Committee is charged with collecting all the issues of The ASCLD News. These old newsletters will be scanned to disc to keep the history of the ASCLD permanently. To that end, I ask for your help. If you have issues of The ASCLD News, I am interested in them. - If you wish to donate them to the ASCLD, I thank you. - If you wish to have them returned, I shall do so. Please, will you help in keeping our history? You can send your copies to me or Michele Kestler at the addresses below. Thank you, Carla Noziglia ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carla M. Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Michele Kestler Forensic Scientist Laboratory Director 8513 Northwest 47 Street LAPD Scientific Invest. Division Coral Springs, FL 33067 555 Ramirez Street, Space 270 954-796-8063, telephone & fax Los Angeles, CA 90012 skipncar@aol.com 213-847-0044 Fax: 213-847-0040 lapdlablady@yahoo.com Live Well Laugh Often Love Much Phone: E-mail: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] From forens-owner Thu Apr 15 19:25:20 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3FNPKZn019597 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3FNPKkW019596 for forens-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:25:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: FORENSIC022@aol.com Message-ID: <55.54fa8700.2db073d7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:25:11 EDT Subject: Re: [forens] Knowledge Solutions To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5106 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu I thought that the DNA course was worthwhile. Brad --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by FORENSIC022@aol.com] From forens-owner Fri Apr 16 10:55:51 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3GEtpk8027347 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3GEtpHs027346 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:55:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20040416075706.0252a008@pop.kruglaw.com> X-Sender: kim%kruglaw.com@pop.kruglaw.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:57:48 -0700 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Kim Kruglick Subject: Re: [forens] CAC Seminar in Foster City May 3-7 In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040409093022.01e6c8b0@pop.business.earthlink.n et> References: <407593AB.DB9A17A9@hotmail.com> <6.0.3.0.0.20040409093022.01e6c8b0@pop.business.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu At 09:46 AM 4/9/2004, you wrote: >Forens List >I usually wait to announce these meetings too late for you folks to >actually plan to go, but this time is DIFFERENT! :-) > >Details are at www.cacnews.org > >The next meeting of the California Association of Criminalists is the >103rd Semi-Annual Seminar. The CAC Seminar will take place May 3-7, 2004 >at the Crowne Plaza Hotel in Foster City, CA. John, They gonna let us mere lawyers in this year? Best regards, Kim Kruglick mailto:kim@kruglaw.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Forensic Resource and Criminal Law Search Site http://www.kruglaw.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ WARNING: This email and any attachments may be confidential and/or privileged. They are intended for the addressee only and are not to be read, used, copied or disseminated by anyone receiving them in error. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return email and delete this message and any attachments. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Kim Kruglick ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 16 12:18:56 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3GGIuiZ028785 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3GGIu0R028784 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:18:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:16:24 -0700 From: "Linda French" To: Subject: Re: [forens] CAC Seminar in Foster City May 3-7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-Guinevere: 2.0.15 ; The County of San Ma Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu You certainly may attend the meeting. The registration form is at www.cacnews.org. The registration may be made by regular mail, e-mail, facsimile, or telephone (credit card only). You may also register in person at the seminar. Attorneys have attended previous seminar meetings. Linda French Criminalist Registration Coordinator San Mateo County Sheriff's Office Forensic Laboratory <> John, They gonna let us mere lawyers in this year? Best regards, Kim Kruglick mailto:kim@kruglaw.com [EndPost by "Linda French" ] From forens-owner Sat Apr 17 13:44:02 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3HHi1Sp011054 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3HHi1VD011053 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:44:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <408159EC.97B5DE51@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:53:08 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] O-tolidine and O-toluidine Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu 17 April 2004 Dear List, We all know that O-tolidine test is used as a preliminary test for blood. I have been told that O-toluidine (please note the additional "u") is used for the estimation of glucose. Is this correct? I ask this, because here in this part of the world, this choice is usually injected (as a distractor) to stump the students in multiple choice type questions. Can somebody enlighten on both these tests please, and the methodology. Are they really different? Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Sat Apr 17 16:06:54 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3HK6sR9012296 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3HK6sME012295 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:06:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <000701c424b7$81ba93c0$bfa9ac43@n1k5w3> From: "John P. Bowden" To: References: <408159EC.97B5DE51@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [forens] O-tolidine and O-toluidine Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:06:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Prof Aggrawal, Actually this is a very complex issue. The two compounds have great similarities. Essentially o-tolidine is a dimer of o-toluidine. Both are dyes that have been used to indicate peroxidase activities. Indeed both have been used in tests for glucose. Two references are available at: http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/548bloodglucose.html which uses o-toluidine (2-methylaniline) and http://jmargolin.com/todo/3061523.pdf which is a pdf copy (you need Adobe Reader for this) of a US patent using o-tolidine (3,3' - dimethylbenzidine) for glucose determination. These references seem to add great doubt to the accuracy of the quiz question. This would also imply that both compounds could be used to test for the peroxidase activity that is the basis of blood screening tests. To further illustrate the confusion, one web site for Shree Ganesh, not doubt available to many of your test subjects, misnames one of the compounds: http://www.india-chemicals.com/o018.html A great deal of information on these two compounds and their reactions, as well as their health hazards may be obtained by on-line searches. I hope this helps, rather than obfuscates, but the discussion is surely complex. I would advise removing the question from you tests. John P. Bowden Forensic Consultant "Dum Spiro Spero" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Professor Anil Aggrawal" To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 9:23 AM Subject: [forens] O-tolidine and O-toluidine > 17 April 2004 > Dear List, > > We all know that O-tolidine test is used as a preliminary test for > blood. I have been told that O-toluidine (please note the additional > "u") is used for the estimation of glucose. Is this correct? I ask this, > because here in this part of the world, this choice is usually injected > (as a distractor) to stump the students in multiple choice type > questions. > > Can somebody enlighten on both these tests please, and the methodology. > Are they really different? Thanks. > > > Sincerely > Professor Anil Aggrawal > Professor of Forensic Medicine > Maulana Azad Medical College > S-299 Greater Kailash-1 > New Delhi-110048 > INDIA > Phone: 26465460, 26413101 > Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com > Page me via ICQ #19727771 > Websites: > > 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites > http://www.geradts.com/~anil > 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html > 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html > 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page > http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html > 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 > 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html > 7. Forensic Careers > http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html > 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po > > *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I > tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being > called when the top doctors have failed!* > `\|||/ > (@@) > ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ > _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| > ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ > _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ > > > > [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] > [EndPost by "John P. Bowden" ] From forens-owner Sat Apr 17 17:55:06 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3HLt6rp013412 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3HLt6Th013411 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:55:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <40819F5C.B25446A2@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:49:24 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] From Anil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, I read the following fact about BAL from Goldfrank's Toxicologic emergencies today: (i)BAL should never be administered simultaneously with medicinal iron as the combination is toxic Can someone please tell me why this combination is toxic. The book fails to provide any explanation. Further it is said that (ii) In G-6-PD-deficient patients BAL may induce hemolysis Why is this so? Kindly let me know. Thanks. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Sun Apr 18 03:32:01 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3I7W18e019285 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 03:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3I7W1QO019284 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 03:32:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <40822EEB.2AA2184@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:01:55 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Tolidine and Toluidine Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ***Your Original Message*** Prof Aggrawal, Actually this is a very complex issue. The two compounds have great similarities. Essentially o-tolidine is a dimer of o-toluidine. Both are dyes that have been used to indicate peroxidase activities. Indeed both have been used in tests for glucose. Two references are available at: http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/548bloodglucose.html which uses o-toluidine (2-methylaniline) and http://jmargolin.com/todo/3061523.pdf which is a pdf copy (you need Adobe Reader for this) of a US patent using o-tolidine (3,3' - dimethylbenzidine) for glucose determination. These references seem to add great doubt to the accuracy of the quiz question. This would also imply that both compounds could be used to test for the peroxidase activity that is the basis of blood screening tests. To further illustrate the confusion, one web site for Shree Ganesh, not doubt available to many of your test subjects, misnames one of the compounds: http://www.india-chemicals.com/o018.html A great deal of information on these two compounds and their reactions, as well as their health hazards may be obtained by on-line searches. I hope this helps, rather than obfuscates, but the discussion is surely complex. I would advise removing the question from you tests. John P. Bowden Forensic Consultant "Dum Spiro Spero" ***End of your Original Message*** Dear John, Many thanks for such an erudite answer. Yes, certainly the question should be removed. Can I summarize your comments in the following sentence: o-tolidine is a dimer of o-toluidine, and both these chemicals can be used for detection of blood (screening purposes only) as well as for estimation of glucose. Is it correct to say, that despite the above statement, it is the "tolidine" that is most commonly used for screening of blood worldwide, and "Toluidine" that is most commonly used for estimation of glucose? Or are the two chemicals so commonly used for both purposes, that it is futile to distinguish between the two. I would tend to believe that the compound with lesser toxicity would find favour with scientists for both the tests. Which by the way is less toxic? Or are both equally toxic? Many thanks for your time. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 23 18:45:18 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3NMjIeS017685 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3NMjIN3017684 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:45:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:50:30 -0400 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00c401c42985$613af720$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <004001c420a6$96090510$2602a8c0@fyreatr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2004 22:45:17.0908 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6808940:01C42984] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i3NMjHNV017679 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Donna makes a good point that today a science degree may not always be needed for positions in latent prints and crime scene. This may also be true for firearm/toolmark and handwriting comparison positions. HOWEVER, that is rapidly becoming the exception rather than the rule. Even in these traditionally non-scientist positions, more and more labs today prefer, if not require, a degree in science for new hires. Any students contemplating entering the field of criminalistics/laboratory forensic science are well advised to get a degree in chemistry, biology, or forensic science. Most labs today won't even consider you without one, unless you already have experience performing the exams professionally in another lab. Criminal justice degree programs give you none of the academic knowledge or professional skills needed to work in a crime lab. Working as a forensic scientist necessitates that one must first become a SCIENTIST, and that means earning a science degree. Current ASCLD-LAB accreditation guidelines REQUIRE science degrees for all crime lab specialty positions except the four mentioned above. For those four, they require a baccalaureate degree "with science courses." CJ degree programs typically do not contain science courses. Further, a variety of forces are driving these until-now more "professional trade"-like than "science"-like specialties to establish the scientific basis for their principles of analysis through research, and the task of conducting research requires scientists. Individual certification requirements in criminalistics and related fields are parallel - they require at minimum a 4-year science degree. Ditto for the SWG guidelines in most forensic specialties. Most of us who have been following the continuing development of national lab accreditation, individual certification, and process standardization guidelines can see the handwriting on the wall, and fully expect that a _science_ degree will become a requirement for ALL lab analyst positions in the not-too-distant future. There is now also a nascent movement to accredit forensic science academic programs at universities, to ensure that such programs produce forensic scientists, not criminologists. Based on what I've seen of the first draft guidelines established, I'd wager that the final standards established for accrediting forensic science graduate degree programs will likewise mandate an undergraduate science degree as an entrance requirement, so the days of being able to go from a CJ undergrad degree directly to an FS grad degree are likely numbered. Just as one is unlikely to get into a chemistry or biology graduate degree program without an undergraduate science degree today, in a few years I expect one won't be able to get into an accredited forensic science graduate program without it either. As Bob Dylan once wrote (and sang), "The times, they are a-changin'" (and rapidly, too). For all these reasons, I advise all students to disregard what was acceptable in the past (even the recent past) and fix your eyes on the clear trends for the future - if you want to work in a forensic laboratory in ANY specialty in the future, your best strategy is to get a degree in a "hard" science, not a social science. CJ, sociology, criminology, etc., degrees might serve you well as a detective or police crime scene specialist, but they will likely NOT help you get a job as a forensic scientist in the future. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Brandelli Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 11:56 AM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I know everyone keeps advocating hard science, hard science. I got my job at the Los Angeles County Crime Lab with a B.S. in Criminal Justice. I have been working there for 6 years. I perform major crime scene investigations (officer involved shootings, homicides, multi victim homicides, rapes, robberies, etc.) We have had several officer involved shootings and multiple victim homicides in the last 2 months. I've been involved with all the multiple victim homicides and 3 of the officer involved shootings (we've had many more than that). I also do chemical processing as my "day job", perform fingerprint comparisons and testify as an expert witness. Since going to the lab I have obtained my Master's degree in Forensic Science, and I am currently working on my PhD. I wrote the policy and procedures manual for the Identification and Chemical sections and go out and conduct crime scene preservation training to outside agencies, as well as those in our department requesting it. I also teach in Criminal Justice programs. So, in short, it depends on the agency and it depends on what you want to do. The criminalists, for the majority of their job duites, perform laboratory analysis. Very few go out on crime scenes and they go out on far fewer crime scenes than the Identification section. Many of the criminalists don't want to go out in the field and deal with CSI functions. They would rather stay in the lab and work "normal" day time hours. What I always suggest to those that ask me is go to different websites of agencies you think you might want to work. Some people are limited to areas, some don't mind traveling. Check out their various requirements for the job that you want to do. That gives you some idea of the requirements, which in turn may help you direct your education. I hope that adds a different perspective. Donna Brandelli "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Miller To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Real life situation: My wife graduated with a BS in Criminology. Ended up with 20+ years in advertising. I graduated with a BS in Chemistry. Ended up with 20+ years in Crime Scene with FDLE. She studied everything in college that I ultimately used in my day-to-day work. (I studied no "crime science" in college) But because she did not have a major in a hard science, she was not considered a candidate. Hope this helps those that are undecided about a studies and career choice. Remember, ultimately you are scientists, not philosophers. Allen Miller Forensic Technical Manager Armor Forensics 13386 International Parkway Jacksonville, Florida 32218 904-741-1787 amiller@armorholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Parsons Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:30 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope you realize that a degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are interested in working in the forensic science field. I point this out because this is a forensic science list, not a criminal justice list, and students often fail to realize that the two are completely different disciplines with very little in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, you need to study science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program may or may not be "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important question might be: is the program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ program is "recognized" as having any value in the forensic science field. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with the program would be appreciated. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] [EndPost by "Allen Miller" ] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Donna Brandelli" ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 23 18:51:23 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3NMpNn7017998 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3NMpNOf017997 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:51:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: "Robert Parsons" To: Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:56:36 -0400 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory Message-ID: <00c501c42986$3b417ac0$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <20040410013240.74174.qmail@web20608.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2004 22:51:23.0674 (UTC) FILETIME=[8083FFA0:01C42985] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu That depends on your goals. If you want to work in a crime lab (i.e., perform criminalistics), the answer is "probably not." Crime Lab directors prefer degrees in Chemistry, Biology, or Forensic Science, in that order of preference. If you want to become a forensic pathologist/medical examiner, then that depends on whether or not the health science degree satisfies the entrance requirements for the medical school of your choice, and that in turn depends on the specific medical school and the specific content of the health science program you graduate from. Forensic pathologists must earn the MD degree and complete internships in anatomical pathology and forensic pathology (a total of about 12-14 years of schooling beyond high school). If you want to be a crime scene technician/investigator (which is NOTHING like it is portrayed on the TV show "CSI"), then you don't need a college degree at all because you will only be collecting evidence, not analyzing it. Most CS people have no college degree (let alone one in science), but getting a college degree in a science will make you a much better crime scene worker. If you aspire to a job in the minority of labs where crime lab scientists routinely perform both crime scene work AND lab analysis, then a "hard" science degree will most likely be required, just as it would be for a purely lab position. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:33 PM To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice Would "Health Sciences" be of any value then? --- Robert Parsons wrote: > I don't know the answer to your question, but I hope > you realize that a > degree in criminal justices is worthless if you are > interested in working in > the forensic science field. I point this out > because this is a forensic > science list, not a criminal justice list, and > students often fail to > realize that the two are completely different > disciplines with very little > in common. If you want to be a forensic scientist, > you need to study > science, not criminal justice. Capella's CJ program > may or may not be > "recognized" by the CJ field, (another important > question might be: is the > program accredited?) but neither it nor any other CJ > program is "recognized" > as having any value in the forensic science field. > > Bob Parsons, F-ABC > Forensic Chemist > Indian River Crime Laboratory > Ft. Pierce, FL > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Robert Thompson > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:34 PM > To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu > Subject: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice > > Can someone provide feedback on Capella University's > online Ph.D program in Criminal Justice. Is it well > recognized/valued in the field? Any experiences with > the program would be appreciated. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > [EndPost by Robert Thompson > ] > > > [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html [EndPost by Robert Thompson ] [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 23 22:34:58 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3O2Yw7V021261 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3O2YwLp021260 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:34:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Originating-IP: [66.61.75.76] X-Originating-Email: [shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com] X-Sender: shaun_wheeler@hotmail.com From: "shaun wheeler" To: Subject: [forens] Is This A Trend? Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:36:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Apr 2004 02:34:53.0658 (UTC) FILETIME=[B97D2BA0:01C429A4] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/030304/new_20040303061.shtml Normally when a peace officer cites the 5th Amendment and refuses to answer questions it raises a few eyebrows. Is this kind of thing more common, perhaps even acceptable for medical examiners? [EndPost by "shaun wheeler" ] From forens-owner Sat Apr 24 04:26:40 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3O8Qe23025012 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3O8QeNI025011 for forens-outgoing; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:26:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:26:26 +0300 From: Azriel Gorski Subject: RE: [forens] Ph.D in Criminal Justice In-reply-to: <00c401c42985$613af720$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> X-Sender: azrielg@mail.netvision.net.il To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Message-id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040424111521.019fdac0@mail.netvision.net.il> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 References: <004001c420a6$96090510$2602a8c0@fyreatr> <00c401c42985$613af720$7f00a8c0@IRRCL.local> X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Bob, I do not disagree with what you say. I do want to add something to it, which is one of the "joys" of forensic science. There is the need to communicate with those who are not scientists/specialists. In fact as the world goes more specialist and interdisciplinary in its approach to many fields, the need to train specialists about the problem and how to communicate across specialist lines and heaven help us to non-specialists becomes more important. We forensic scientists may even have to follow after the medical profession and have a specialty of being a generalist/inter-facer (specialty of family practice). Without that communication, which MUST includes listening and understanding the needs of the other, much valuable information is lost. Shalom from Jerusalem, Azriel Gorski At 01:50 24/04/2004, you wrote: >Donna makes a good point that today a science degree may not always be >needed for positions in latent prints and crime scene. This may also be >true for firearm/toolmark and handwriting comparison positions. HOWEVER, >that is rapidly becoming the exception rather than the rule. Even in these >traditionally non-scientist positions, more and more labs today prefer, if >not require, a degree in science for new hires. Any students contemplating >entering the field of criminalistics/laboratory forensic science are well >advised to get a degree in chemistry, biology, or forensic science. Most >labs today won't even consider you without one, unless you already have >experience performing the exams professionally in another lab. Criminal >justice degree programs give you none of the academic knowledge or >professional skills needed to work in a crime lab. Working as a forensic >scientist necessitates that one must first become a SCIENTIST, and that >means earning a science degree. > >Current ASCLD-LAB accreditation guidelines REQUIRE science degrees for all >crime lab specialty positions except the four mentioned above. For those >four, they require a baccalaureate degree "with science courses." CJ degree >programs typically do not contain science courses. Further, a variety of >forces are driving these until-now more "professional trade"-like than >"science"-like specialties to establish the scientific basis for their >principles of analysis through research, and the task of conducting research >requires scientists. Individual certification requirements in >criminalistics and related fields are parallel - they require at minimum a >4-year science degree. Ditto for the SWG guidelines in most forensic >specialties. Most of us who have been following the continuing development >of national lab accreditation, individual certification, and process >standardization guidelines can see the handwriting on the wall, and fully >expect that a _science_ degree will become a requirement for ALL lab analyst >positions in the not-too-distant future. There is now also a nascent >movement to accredit forensic science academic programs at universities, to >ensure that such programs produce forensic scientists, not criminologists. >Based on what I've seen of the first draft guidelines established, I'd wager >that the final standards established for accrediting forensic science >graduate degree programs will likewise mandate an undergraduate science >degree as an entrance requirement, so the days of being able to go from a CJ >undergrad degree directly to an FS grad degree are likely numbered. Just as >one is unlikely to get into a chemistry or biology graduate degree program >without an undergraduate science degree today, in a few years I expect one >won't be able to get into an accredited forensic science graduate program >without it either. > >As Bob Dylan once wrote (and sang), "The times, they are a-changin'" (and >rapidly, too). > >For all these reasons, I advise all students to disregard what was >acceptable in the past (even the recent past) and fix your eyes on the clear >trends for the future - if you want to work in a forensic laboratory in ANY >specialty in the future, your best strategy is to get a degree in a "hard" >science, not a social science. CJ, sociology, criminology, etc., degrees >might serve you well as a detective or police crime scene specialist, but >they will likely NOT help you get a job as a forensic scientist in the >future. > > >Bob Parsons, F-ABC >Forensic Chemist >Indian River Crime Laboratory >Ft. Pierce, FL ******************************************************************** Azriel Gorski, PhD Forensic Science Science and Antiquities Group, Kuvin Centre The Hebrew University of Jerusalem http://kuvin.huji.ac.il/sci_ant/ Choice - The enchanted blade, with an edge that shapes lifetimes Richard Bach ******************************************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by Azriel Gorski ] From forens-owner Sun Apr 25 09:37:36 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3PDbag7007928 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3PDbaek007927 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:37:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <408BA2E9.7B19B5EC@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:07:13 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Subject: [forens] E-605 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, Can someone please give me the answers of the following questions. Thanks. 1. Why is parathion also known as E-605 ? 2. Is it true that there is a blue coloration of the mouth in cases of E-605 intoxication? If so, what is the reasoning? Thanks for your time. Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] From forens-owner Sun Apr 25 23:10:14 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3Q3AE87016457 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3Q3AERM016456 for forens-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:10:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <001e01c42b3b$fbf8ade0$bfa9ac43@n1k5w3> From: "John P. Bowden" To: References: <408BA2E9.7B19B5EC@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [forens] E-605 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:10:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Prof. Aggrawal, A Goggle search indicates that E605 is a registered trademark of Bayer for parathion, which they invented. Many of the links are in German. A great deal of information is available at the NIOSH website at: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/rtecs/tf456d70.html John John P. Bowden ----- Original Message ----- From: "Professor Anil Aggrawal" To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 4:37 AM Subject: [forens] E-605 > Dear List, > Can someone please give me the answers of the following questions. > Thanks. > > 1. Why is parathion also known as E-605 ? > > 2. Is it true that there is a blue coloration of the mouth in cases of > E-605 intoxication? If so, what is the reasoning? > > Thanks for your time. > > > Sincerely > Professor Anil Aggrawal > Professor of Forensic Medicine > Maulana Azad Medical College > S-299 Greater Kailash-1 > New Delhi-110048 > INDIA > Phone: 26465460, 26413101 > Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com > Page me via ICQ #19727771 > Websites: > > 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites > http://www.geradts.com/~anil > 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html > 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html > 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page > http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html > 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 > 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews > http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html > 7. Forensic Careers > http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html > 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po > > *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I > tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being > called when the top doctors have failed!* > `\|||/ > (@@) > ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ > _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| > ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ > _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ > > > > > [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ] > [EndPost by "John P. Bowden" ] From forens-owner Tue Apr 27 08:59:31 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RCxVYN015909 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3RCxVmQ015908 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:59:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:59:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Oliver To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] Is there an archive for this list? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Is this list archived somewhere in a publicly-searchable format? I know this has been asked before, but I don't know where an archive is to find out if there's an archive... billo [EndPost by Bill Oliver ] From forens-owner Tue Apr 27 10:23:39 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RENdEE018008 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3RENdTV018007 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:23:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f From: SkipnCar@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:22:52 EDT Subject: [forens] ASCLD News To: ascld@lab.fws.gov, forens@statgen.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5107 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu The ASCLD is requesting old copies of The ASCLD News to scan to disc. Attached is a list of those issues which we have. If you can donate the issues we are missing, the ASCLD is grateful. If you wish the issues back, make note of this and they will be returned. Thank you, Carla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carla M. Noziglia, MS, FAAFS Forensic Scientist 8513 Northwest 47 Street Coral Springs, FL 33067 954-796-8063, telephone & fax skipncar@aol.com Live Well Laugh Often Love Much --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html application/octet-stream --- [EndPost by SkipnCar@aol.com] From forens-owner Tue Apr 27 12:11:25 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RGBPPW020910 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3RGBPrh020907 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040427110702.01adb708@pop.avalon.net> X-Sender: pnoth@pop.avalon.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:11:16 -0500 To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu From: Peter Nothnagle Subject: Re: [forens] Is there an archive for this list? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear Bill, Here is the pertinent excerpt from the "Welcome to Forens-L" I received when I subscribed to the list: ** ** ** ** This mailing list is managed by MajorDomo. You send commands in the body of an email message to MajorDomo@statgen.ncsu.edu. Here is a list of commands (note that [address] is an optional email address, and "file" is a file in the archive): =============================================================================== Command Parameters Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- subscribe forens [address] Subscribe yourself [address] to forens unsubscribe forens [address] Unsubscribe yourself [address] to forens who forens Show the members of forens info forens Show the introductory info for forens index forens Show the files in the archive get forens "file" Get "file" from the archive for forens which [address] Find out which lists you [address] are on. lists Show all the lists handled by this server help Retrieve a help message, explaining these commands end Stop processing commands (useful if your mailer appends a signature). =============================================================================== At 07:59 AM 4/27/2004, you wrote: >Is this list archived somewhere in a publicly-searchable format? > >I know this has been asked before, but I don't know where an archive >is to find out if there's an archive... > >billo > >[EndPost by Bill Oliver ] [EndPost by Peter Nothnagle ] From forens-owner Tue Apr 27 12:43:49 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RGhnHu022226 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3RGhnJt022225 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:43:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:43:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Oliver To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [forens] Is there an archive for this list? In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040427110702.01adb708@pop.avalon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Peter Nothnagle wrote: > Dear Bill, > > Here is the pertinent excerpt from the "Welcome to Forens-L" I received > when I subscribed to the list...[snip] > That did the trick! Thanks. billo [EndPost by Bill Oliver ] From forens-owner Tue Apr 27 13:17:59 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RHHw7A023472 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3RHHwMU023471 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:17:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: Indian River Crime Laboratory X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 x-originalarrivaltime: 27 Apr 2004 17:17:57.0340 (UTC) FILETIME=[9576B1C0:01C42C7B] content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: [forens] reprint sources Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:23:13 -0400 Message-ID: <001e01c42c7c$5258e1a0$7b00a8c0@IRRCL.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: reprint sources Thread-Index: AcQsfFICE4mFyXqeRiig/EqWqP6+4Q== From: "Robert Parsons" To: , "FORENS-L (statgen) (FORENS-L POSTING)" X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i3RHHx7A023473 We're looking for a few old articles for reference. Can anyone suggest a source for reprints from 1970's issues of the Journal of the Canadian Society of Forensic Science or the National Journal of Criminal Defense? We're more than willing to pay reasonable copying and copyright royalty fees, but the only document delivery service we could find that handles these two journals wanted $75 per reprint, which is far beyond what I can justify spending on a single paper. Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks. Bob Parsons, F-ABC Forensic Chemist Indian River Crime Laboratory Ft. Pierce, FL --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] From forens-owner Tue Apr 27 13:37:22 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RHbMHo024443 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3RHbMo8024442 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:37:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-WebMail-UserID: sullival Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:37:17 -0400 From: Lisa M Sullivan To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00003553 Subject: RE: [forens] reprint sources Message-ID: <408F2F6B@GriffMail.canisius.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.61.08 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Bob, I would suggest going to your public library and putting in an interlibrary loan for the articles(or if you or someone you know is affiliated with a college or university, using that library). Some libraries charge for ILL and some do not but the charge is usually less than the document delivery places. I hope this helps. Lisa >===== Original Message From forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ===== >We're looking for a few old articles for reference. Can anyone suggest >a source for reprints from 1970's issues of the Journal of the Canadian >Society of Forensic Science or the National Journal of Criminal Defense? >We're more than willing to pay reasonable copying and copyright royalty >fees, but the only document delivery service we could find that handles >these two journals wanted $75 per reprint, which is far beyond what I >can justify spending on a single paper. Any assistance would be >appreciated. Thanks. > > > >Bob Parsons, F-ABC > >Forensic Chemist > >Indian River Crime Laboratory > >Ft. Pierce, FL > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >[EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] Lisa Sullivan Reference librarian/evening & weekend supervisor Canisius College "We cannot have good libraries until we first have good librarians -- properly educated, professionally recognized, and fairly rewarded." - Herbert S. White (Library Journal column, 15 November 1999, pp. 44-45) Opinions are mine, and mine alone. [EndPost by Lisa M Sullivan ] From forens-owner Tue Apr 27 13:50:48 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3RHomtG025505 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3RHomDQ025504 for forens-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:50:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.7.1 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:50:18 -0700 From: "Greg Laskowski" To: Subject: RE: [forens] reprint sources Mime-Version: 1.0 X-StripMime: Non-text section removed by stripmime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu id i3RHomtG025506 Bob, I suggest you try the CCI Library, which is part of the California Criminalistics Institute in Sacramento, CA. Try the link below. They may be able to assist you. http://caag.state.ca.us/cci/index.htm Best of luck, Gregory E. Laskowski Supervising Criminalist, Major Crimes Unit Kern County District Attorney Forensic Science Division 1300 18th Street, 4th Floor Bakersfield, CA 93301 Office Phone: (661) 868-5659 Office FAX: (661) 868-5675 Cellular Phone: (661) 979-5548 e-mail: glaskows@co.kern.ca.us >>> sullival@canisius.edu 4/27/2004 10:37:17 AM >>> Bob, I would suggest going to your public library and putting in an interlibrary loan for the articles(or if you or someone you know is affiliated with a college or university, using that library). Some libraries charge for ILL and some do not but the charge is usually less than the document delivery places. I hope this helps. Lisa >===== Original Message From forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ===== >We're looking for a few old articles for reference. Can anyone suggest >a source for reprints from 1970's issues of the Journal of the Canadian >Society of Forensic Science or the National Journal of Criminal Defense? >We're more than willing to pay reasonable copying and copyright royalty >fees, but the only document delivery service we could find that handles >these two journals wanted $75 per reprint, which is far beyond what I >can justify spending on a single paper. Any assistance would be >appreciated. Thanks. > > > >Bob Parsons, F-ABC > >Forensic Chemist > >Indian River Crime Laboratory > >Ft. Pierce, FL > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >[EndPost by "Robert Parsons" ] Lisa Sullivan Reference librarian/evening & weekend supervisor Canisius College "We cannot have good libraries until we first have good librarians -- properly educated, professionally recognized, and fairly rewarded." - Herbert S. White (Library Journal column, 15 November 1999, pp. 44-45) Opinions are mine, and mine alone. [EndPost by Lisa M Sullivan ] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Greg Laskowski TEL;WORK:868-5659 ORG:District Attorney;District Attorney - Forensic Science Division TEL;PREF;FAX:868-5675 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:GLaskows.DACRIMPO.DADOMAIN N:Laskowski;Greg TITLE:Supervising Criminalist END:VCARD --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/plain (text body -- kept) --- [EndPost by "Greg Laskowski" ] From forens-owner Wed Apr 28 13:14:04 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3SHE42E018045 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3SHE3Tb018044 for forens-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:14:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: cbasten owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:14:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Basten" To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Subject: [forens] forwarded message Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cat" Subject: Automotive Paints and Coatings Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:58:36 -0500 Was someone here looking for a copy of Gordon Fettis' Automotive Paints and Coatings? Cat [EndPost by "Christopher J. Basten" ] From forens-owner Fri Apr 30 15:38:46 2004 Return-Path: Received: from sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3UJckqZ005376 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from MajorDomo@localhost) by sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.11/Submit) id i3UJckdX005375 for forens-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:38:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun01pt2-1523.statgen.ncsu.edu: MajorDomo set sender to owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu using -f Message-ID: <40929E47.24AF5B1E@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 00:13:19 +0530 From: Professor Anil Aggrawal Organization: S-299 Greater Kailash-1, New Delhi-110048, India X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Forensic Newsgroup (main)" CC: Dena.Weiss@lakelandgov.net Subject: [forens] Online Ph.D. In forensic science? Any suggestions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: forens@statgen.ncsu.edu Dear List, I have got the following mail from a student. Her Email is Dena.Weiss@lakelandgov.net Can anyone help her please. Thanks. ************ I currently have a MS in Forensic Science. I am currently a CSI, Latent Print Examiner, and professor for an online university. The online university is pushing for me to get my PHD. I would have to do this online, however, I haven't found any online terminal degrees in Forensic Science. Any suggestions? Thanks for your help! Dena Marie Weiss Dena.Weiss@lakelandgov.net *********** Sincerely Professor Anil Aggrawal Professor of Forensic Medicine Maulana Azad Medical College S-299 Greater Kailash-1 New Delhi-110048 INDIA Phone: 26465460, 26413101 Email:dr_anil@hotmail.com Page me via ICQ #19727771 Websites: 1. Anil Aggrawal's Websites http://www.geradts.com/~anil 2. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/indexpapers.html 3. Book reviews of latest forensic books/journals/software/multimedia http://www.geradts.com/~anil/ij/sundry/reviews/publishers/pub001.html 4. Anil Aggrawal's Forensic Toxicology Page http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/index.html 5. Anil Aggrawal's Popular Forensic Medicine Page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/williamson/235 6. Anil Aggrawal's Internet Journal of Book Reviews http://www.geradts.com/~anil/br/index.html 7. Forensic Careers http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/electrical/314/career.html 8. Join Anil Aggrawal's Criminal Poisoning forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cr_po *Many people ask me why I chose Forensic Medicine as a career, and I tell them that it is because a forensic man gets the honor of being called when the top doctors have failed!* `\|||/ (@@) ooO (_) Ooo________________________________ _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____| ___|____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ _____|_____Please pardon the intrusion_|____|_____ [EndPost by Professor Anil Aggrawal ]